MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Wed Jun 01 2005 12:04 AM
The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Today marks the first day of the 2005 Hurricane Season, and after last season in Florida we'd hope it would be a quiet one. The meteorologists at Colorado State University say it'll be an above average year with 15 named storms, 8 hurricanes, and 4 major hurricanes. I personally think the number is a bit high, but we'll see. I tend to be optimistic about the season in general. This is the 10th hurricane season this site has been running during.

As we start off the year, there is nothing worthy of note in the tropics yet, but we'll keep an eye out.

Last year was an exception. Hurricane Charley slammed into Punta Gorda was the storm that started the Florida series. Followed by Frances, which hit near Stuart, Ivan which had Mobile, AL in its sights, veered slightly east saving Mobile the worst, but giving Pensacola a wallop, including much beach damage and knocking out the interstate 10 bridge.

Jeanne was the one that did the most damage to me personally, along the coast in New Smyrna Beach. Although not as strong as the others, the storm surge along the coast was higher than I've ever seen in New Smyrna basically destroying our beach there. We were lucky compared to Pensacola with Ivan, however.

There are plenty of hurricane specials on local media, and events going on at local malls this week. Feel free to reply and state them if you know of them. Preparation is key as usual, this next week or so taxes will be removed on supplies (see the prior news article for details).

Outside of Florida must watch out as well. It's been years since Florida has had a year even close to last year. But it only takes one major storm to ruin your area. Keep watch, don't panic. And we'll all be anxiously watching the tropics this year. Thanks for visiting the site. I hope to improve it a lot this year.

We are still looking for reasonable server collocation facilities for our servers. Our bandwidth has very unusual requirements in that only one or two months a year we tend to spike, and spike very very hard when hurricane events happen, while the rest is comparatively slow, if you have a recommendation or offer please send it to cfhc@flhurricane.com

Soon we'll be adding volunteer professional meteorologist blogs on site, in addition to what we have now with Snonut, from a few other partners that have been a great help to the site over the years. This should be up in the coming weeks. We've also added coordinate history for all of last year's storms. Skeetobite will likely be doing a few maps again when the time calls as well.

Be hurricane prepared! And always, always, if in any doubt, take the word of the National Hurricane Center over anything you read on the internet, here or otherwise.

Jim Williams at Hurricane City will be doing an 8PM broadcast tonight for the season kickoff.


LI Phil
(User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 12:41 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Thanks for the "opening" salvo Mike...looking forward to another great year on CFHC.

I expect we'll see a number of the reg'lars making their first posts of the year today...so...in advance a "shout out" to those just checkin' in...I guess they will be letting Frank P. out of the WPP so in advance...Frank P. wat up?

i have seen the future of cfhc in the forthcoming "met blog" (new forum) Mike will be intro'ing in the near future...this will be a most excellent new feature, and there are others to come...just to whet everyone's whistle...

well...no action (thankfully) for a while, but we'll be right on top of it when anything does perk up...

after "The Season From Hell", i hope and pray this year will yield TS landfallers and CAT V fish spinners...

Welcome to the 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season...

Cheers & Peace,

LI Phil


vvvteddybearvvv
(Weather Watcher)
Wed Jun 01 2005 01:21 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

im not a regular poster but ive been lurking for years and olny mad an account recently im ready for the year i love this part trcking the storms

---is ready for the 2005 season---


James88
(Weather Master)
Wed Jun 01 2005 05:29 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

With the return of the TWO, the season finally feels fully underway. It wasted no time in coming, huh?

B.C.Francis
(Storm Tracker)
Wed Jun 01 2005 06:54 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

The season started with a bang here in central Florida thats for sure. Plenty of thunder and rain . Tornado warning out as I post. Just wanted to wish all my Florida friends and CFHC members good luck this summer. Its going to be a busy summer for us , especially August and September. Be prepared and keep the faith...Weatherchef

Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Wed Jun 01 2005 07:28 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Greeting Phil and all the CFHC regulars...

Yep kicking off another hurricane season today, been reading all the interesting posts but just don't have the mo to get that excited.... yet.... my season starts in Aug so I'll just kinda hang back as see what happens till then... would not surprise me at all for things to be slow for a while, but you never know do ya... not going to get excited about every "blob" that shows up in the GOM.....

Much more prepared this year than last... got me a 5.5 KW generator and in the process of building me some real functional storm shutters... plywood is such a pain.. Agree with you Phil that a little TS would be fun to see but certainly don't want to wish a major on anyone... still feel that we in Biloxi dodged a bullet last year with Ivan....

anyhoo, hopefully we won't have another "season from hell" as you so eloquently stated. Should be an interesting and exciting season if all the experts are correct..... sure hope the great state of Florida has a quite year but wouldn't bet on it ...

Frank P....


Heather
(Weather Hobbyist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 07:55 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

A while back I read that May and low rainfall averages might give an indication of how active our season will be. I don't know average rainfall amount vs. what we actually got. Including yesterday, I've counted 3 days of rain here for the month. Anyone know those amounts and can offer any insight? Was the thought that rainfall was one of the indicators of an El Nino or lack of it?

Cycloneye11
(Weather Hobbyist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 08:41 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Fnnally the season is here wow how time has gone by since 2004 season ended.Let's hope for a safe season and all fishes but let's prepare for the worse and hope for the best because it only takes one system to change your life.I will be in the board to colaborate as always and have good discussions with the members and moderators about the season.

Artsy Fartsy
(Verified CFHC User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 09:12 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Hi All, just wanted to intro myself, I have lurked on these boards for a while, but, have posted very few times. Please bear with me if I ask for info on acronyms that you guys use that I am unfamiliar with. I have started using the forecast models that I saw posted here for the past couple of years and am getting the hang of understanding some things on them.

Thanks again for the info you guys seem to be able to get out to those of us that want to learn, but, can't learn from the weather channel.

I hope everyone has a safe and exciting Season.

Jody


ZooKeeper
(Verified CFHC User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 09:51 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Greetings from the "Big Bend" area of North Florida. Just wanted to check-in and let you know how much I appreciated this site last year. Ya'll definitely helped keep me sane. While our area wasn't in the direct line of fire last year, we received our fair share of glancing blows, with high winds, severe flooding and tornado activity, my in-laws in the Orlando/ Kissimmee/ St. Cloud area were definitely under the gun. My mother-in-law's house is still in need of roof repair because of it. She's "on the list" and hopefully it'll be taken care of before the next one takes her whole house.

the profanity has been removed from your 'signature'. please refrain from using profanity on these boards. Thanks!


HanKFranK
(User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 12:02 PM
well ahead

there are some rumblings in the long range global models that have been fairly consistent for the last couple of days. we've been in a transitional pattern, so they're still somewhat dubious, but finally there is more consistency in the pattern features through next week as well.. so they're at least worth looking out for now.
near the end of next week a weak low appears just east of the lesser antilles and wanders north into the subtropical jet and peters out. about that time (weekend after the upcoming one) a low develops in the western caribbean and drifts north towards florida.. then is blocked by a ridge and moves nw towards the central/western gulf. the persistance of either of these features in modeling could indicate that first atlantic system we're all awaiting... things to look out for.
HF 1659z01june


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Jun 01 2005 12:40 PM
Re: well ahead

I really don't think we'll be waiting 'til August for our first system. I think chances are better than even we'll see one in June. Atlantic temps are up and pressures down throughout the Caribbean. I think this is another season that we're not looking forward to in Florida, but I believe south Florida and the GOM are the places that are vulnerable. Think '95 is a good analog. Can't believe the 'cane season is here already. Be safe all!! Cheers

rmbjoe1954
(Weather Master)
Wed Jun 01 2005 12:51 PM
Re: well ahead

It is good to be back in action. I too believe that this board has gotten more sophisticated with the hurricane season and it has been a pleasure to be part of this.

I wish everyone a safe season and good luck to us all.


AgentB
(Weather Guru)
Wed Jun 01 2005 01:14 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Hello all! Can't believe it's already "that" time again. I'm definitely more prepared for this season than any other one, and I've moved off the beachside to the mainland. I'll be here like last year reading posts, and offering my own $.02.

Heather, here's an article that was posted in another topic about El Nino/La Nina and analog years. Should give you an answer about rainfall totals, etc.

http://www.independentwx.com/2005.html


tornado00
(Weather Hobbyist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 01:33 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Which models are foretelling this storm developing next week?

ftlaudbob
(Storm Chaser)
Wed Jun 01 2005 01:43 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

We have had above average rain in south Florida this May,does that mean a weak Bermuda high?And does a weak Bermuda high mean south Fl. will be spared?

Kevin
(Weather Master)
Wed Jun 01 2005 02:09 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Quote:

We have had above average rain in south Florida this May,does that mean a weak Bermuda high?And does a weak Bermuda high mean south Fl. will be spared?




First thing you have to do is examine exactly where the rainfall in SFL has been above average. The map on this link is good for viewing rainfall totals:
http://www.sfwmd.gov/curre/rainmaps/monthly.html
Only three of the counties on this map experienced above average rainfall during May. The rest of them had below average rainfall. Moreover, the "district average" was .68 inches below normal for the month. Sure, a few counties clocked in with decently above average totals, but overall I'd call May slightly below average for South Florida.

Another important point to make is the timing of the rainfall. The past few days have been pretty rainy for much of the Florida Peninsula, right? In fact, we had some decent batches of rain come across the peninsula late last night. Now, does the May rainfall/Florida hurricanes relationship some kind of switch that automatically goes off 12 AM on 1 June? With so much rainfall occuring so late in the month, I'd be weary of just how much these late totals really count.

And then there's the argument that you can't really predict Florida (or US) landfalls several months in advance. Dr. Gray has been one of the foremost experts to state that landfall predictions months in advance simply cannot be made (with accuracy) at this time. This is the stance that I tend to agree with. Since the advent of the 3 day forecast track, hurricane forecasters have at one time or another experienced problems in producing accurate forecasts. Three months in advance? Forget about it. It simply is not possible to predict the small variations that can occur in the atmosphere months in advance. Sure, the Bermuda High might be weaker than average for the majority of the summer, but if the position and strength are right for just ONE storm, disaster can occur.

This argument has come up before, but it is one worth recalling from time to time.


ftlaudbob
(Storm Chaser)
Wed Jun 01 2005 02:18 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

In todays local paper they have a "expert" say that he can go back 75 years and prove that rain fall in May means a low chance of Florida getting hit.He states that in 1992 Florida had the 2nd dryest May ever,and that is when Andrew hit.Alot of talk about this here.

Bloodstar
(Moderator)
Wed Jun 01 2005 02:31 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Quote:

In todays local paper they have a "expert" say that he can go back 75 years and prove that rain fall in May means a low chance of Florida getting hit.He states that in 1992 Florida had the 2nd dryest May ever,and that is when Andrew hit.Alot of talk about this here.




Just remember, 'Correlation does not equate to causation'
About the only way I could see any linkage between rainfall in florida and hurricane hits would be some sort of larger causation factor that affects both Rainfall totals in florida and the formation/track of hurricanes in the atlantic.

Be an interesting study of the larger weather patterns... I wonder if I could use it for a masters thesis?
-Mark


ftlaudbob
(Storm Chaser)
Wed Jun 01 2005 02:40 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

This guy,and many others think that if we get alot of rain here in May,That meanes the Bermuda High is weak.And that will save us from Hurricanes.

Bloodstar
(Moderator)
Wed Jun 01 2005 02:51 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Quote:

This guy,and many others think that if we get alot of rain here in May,That meanes the Bermuda High is weak.And that will save us from Hurricanes.




Interesting idea, but I'd still prefer to see something more than anecdotal evidence. Particularly when we're talking about an even in May that effects an event in July - September (or later). I'm not trying to say it can't happen, just mildly skeptical.

-Mark


Lysis
(User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 02:58 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

. In todays local paper they have a "expert" say that he can go back 75 years and prove that rain fall in May means a low chance of Florida getting hit.He states that in 1992 Florida had the 2nd dryest May ever,and that is when Andrew hit.Alot of talk about this here.

Conversely, in my paper (no joke) we have a so-called "expert" who is certain that a major hurricane will hit somewhere between Fort Myers and Tampa this season. "There is no longer any doubt in my mind" (this is him verbatim!). Point being, largely disregard what you hear in the local media, namely because they either don't know what they are talking about, or do but want to be pc and get better ratings by scaring their emotionally stricken readers.


tpratch
(Moderator)
Wed Jun 01 2005 03:07 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Ahh, home again.

I lurked last year, posted a few times and am back into visiting mode.

This season is definitely going to be odd after last year. Example: When buying a house, the one that got the nod from my wife and I was the one that had hurricane windows and pre-cut/drilled plywood labelled for each window. We also asked how long after each major storm they went without power, and noted that their roof didn't lose a shingle and that none of their trees were down.

I still haven't replaced the windsheild on my project car, but since it now has its own space in the garage, I don't feel as hurried to do so.

Hello to names familiar and new and let's hope we have a much smoother ride in Florida than last year.

Cheers


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 03:14 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

I wouldn't say "and many others." He's the only guy quoted in the article on that, which you can find in the Orlando Sentinel (and probably the South Fl. Sun-Sentinel, too) today.

What they are trying to get at is the position of the subtropical jet -- and by correlation, El Nino/La Nina events. Disturbances in the subtropical jet can bring a lot of rainfall to wherever they pass over; during an El Nino year, the subtropical jet is generally further south than normal & often over the Florida peninsula, resulting in above average rainfall in S. Florida. Thus, low rainfall --> La Nina events --> more Atlantic activity --> greater chance of a landfall (and conversely, high rainfall --> El Nino events --> less Atlantic activity -- > less chance of a landfall).

Doesn't always work that way, though. Andrew occured during an El Nino year, 1992. So did the storm in 1965 that they reference. Another year referenced, 1935, was a neutral ENSO year. South Florida, over the past 50-75 years, has only seen a few landfalling major hurricanes, not enough to make the statistics significant. Most of them were in the 1960s, and only Betsy in 1965 was a "direct hit."

Furthermore, rainfall this time of year in S. Florida can be influenced by any number of factors: midlatitude systems, disturbances in the subtropical jet, tropical waves, sea breeze -- and so on. It only takes one system at either end of the month to bring about a lot of rainfall. Thus, the anecdotal evidence they present doesn't have much more merit than saying that extremely dry months brought about a landfall in S. Florida. I will give them that: the other years I found with major hurricanes in S. Florida (1945, 1960, 1964) also had rainfall < 5" in May.

Otherwise, there is no common thread amongst the dry months/years that makes physical sense, particularly in terms of the ENSO cycle (the single biggest modulator of tropical activity), to help logically explain the connection. There have been other dry months that have not seen tropical activity, and many wet months that did. Extending it to Central Florida doesn't help much, either: landfalls as a major storm in Cent. FL are pretty rare, particularly along the east coast.

What can you draw from this? Two things...
1) Landfalls can occur without any precedent. This is the "it only takes one" principle. It has little to nothing to do with climate patterns affecting solely Miami/Dade County.
2) The media will take a few quotes that make sense to most of the public to sensationalize a story, particularly when it relates to the start of a new hurricane season (after one that was pretty memorable in this state).

It's an interesting connection, but I'd put pretty little weight in the story...none if I were outside Miami.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Wed Jun 01 2005 03:19 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Quote:

In todays local paper they have a "expert" say that he can go back 75 years and prove that rain fall in May means a low chance of Florida getting hit.He states that in 1992 Florida had the 2nd dryest May ever,and that is when Andrew hit.Alot of talk about this here.





the weather pattern cannot be induced by future development of hurricanes...dry may's in florida just mean there's a strong el nino around.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Jun 01 2005 03:25 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Have to agree with Clark on this one - too many factors lead to rainfall in Florida. This is the typical rainy season - 1998 was not and several big hurricanes formed that could have struck given the right circumstances. '92 was an El Nino year bigtime.

Fletch
(Weather Guru)
Wed Jun 01 2005 04:36 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Happy June 1st. I look forward to continued intellectual discussions with all of you. While none of us wish any harm or damage to anyone, we all have a passion for these storms. Its nice to have a forum to share this passion.

Best of luck to all of you this season.


Heather
(Weather Hobbyist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 05:10 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Now I thought that having little rainfall in May was an indicator that El Nino was not strong or not present, which would lead to increased tropical activity. The Bermuda High was a directional steering thing which doesn't affect activity only the direction in which it travels. I didn't think that rainfall and El Nino affected the Bermuda High. Make sense or am I really off?

Kevin
(Weather Master)
Wed Jun 01 2005 05:15 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Quote:

Now I thought that having little rainfall in May was an indicator that El Nino was not strong or not present, which would lead to increased tropical activity. The Bermuda High was a directional steering thing which doesn't affect activity only the direction in which it travels. I didn't think that rainfall and El Nino affected the Bermuda High. Make sense or am I really off?




Well, if the Bermuda High is too strong, it can seriously inhibit the development of weaker systems. I believe that an overly strong BH is sometimes referred to as a "fast ridge". The circulations in developing systems simply can't properly align when the weather system is moving off to the west too quickly. Overall though, the BH probably isn't a major factor as far as activity levels go. Steering-wise, it is quite important.

Also, in Florida, May is part of the dry season. El Nino tends to increase precipitation and storminess in Florida during the dry season. However, we typically see a decrease in storms in FL caused by low pressure areas associated with the jet stream later in the dry season (hence a more summer-like pattern by May/June).


LI Phil
(User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 05:29 PM
Bermuda High-Basic Explanation

The Bermuda High is an area of high pressure that forms over the Atlantic Ocean during the hurricane season.

Storms move westward on the southern edge of the high-pressure area until finding the western side of the high. The winds around the high turn the storm and carry it to the northeast. The turn usually occurs before most storms hit land. Last year, the high was farther south and west than normal, forcing storms to travel west longer and hit land before turning northeast.

As Kevin said, the BH is not really a factor in the amount of activity, as hurricanes don't generally form in the area affected by the BH. It is generally the long trackers (CV storms) which ride the trades westward until the reach the western fringes of the High (which spins clockwise) which turns these storms north...unfortunately, Frances and Jeanne and the BH's position further west and south, drove them into florida rather than recurving them.

Other storms, which took the more southerly route, were not affected by the BH at all (Charley & Ivan)...so we can still see a devastating cane or three regardless of the position and strength of the BH.

At this point in the season, I wouldn't "worry" about the BH, but it is something that will need to be watched closely as the season progresses.


LI Phil
(User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 05:51 PM
Jim Williams' Show

Just in case anyone is interested, Jim Williams from Hurricane City is kicking off the 2005 season with a live broadcast tonight at 8:00 ET. His website can be found here and the link to the broadcast (you need real audio) is right there at the top in the middle of the front page.

wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 06:14 PM
Experts=Grain of Salt

Exercise extreme caution when referenced "experts" make such claims as what has been discussed...especially when it runs contrary to common sense or the consensus. Those of you alive in the early 70's will remember that a LOT of climate scientists were trumpting the fact we were definately headed into a new "Ice Age"...now we are hearing nothing but "Global Warming is a known fact". If you make a wild enough claim, I can pretty much guarantee that you can find a scientist somewhere that will back it up!

Regardless of the forecast, prepardness is the key...most prepardness items are cheap and relatvely nonperishable. Remember that no matter what we in the media, the National Weather Service, the Red Cross, or any governmnent agency do, YOU are ultimately responsible for you and your family's safety.


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Wed Jun 01 2005 06:23 PM
Re: Experts=Grain of Salt

Quote:

Regardless of the forecast, prepardness is the key...most prepardness items are cheap and relatvely nonperishable. Remember that no matter what we in the media, the National Weather Service, the Red Cross, or any governmnent agency do, YOU are ultimately responsible for you and your family's safety.




Redundant advice, but HIGHLY logical. With adequate preparation, one should be able to handle most things thrown their way.


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 06:28 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Keith234 -- actually, El Nino events bring about enhanced rainfall to Florida. La Nina events are very, very dry here -- such as we saw in 1998 and 1999 with the vast expanses of burning forest land. Precipitation distributions with El Nino vs. normal for the entire US: http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/papers/us_climate_enso_events/predjf.en.gif

It sort of runs in contrast to what the quotes from the article would suggest for such a scenario and thus forms part of why one needs to take such blanket statements with a grain of salt. The data fits his conclusion, but not why.


doug
(Weather Analyst)
Wed Jun 01 2005 06:58 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Good discussion already...I was trying to run some personal recollections and correlations on what occurred here this May and other seasons, but without any data I can't draw any conclusions.
A good discussion of factors influencing the number and possible tracks of stroms is on the TropicalStormRisk.com site.
They are sampling the BH and several other basins. One of those I think is the relative position of the sutropical jet especially from July 1 on. Of course the BH vascillates N/S throughout the summer and I guess a "weak" BH is one that has its mid point further north. If the STJ is shifted south and east it will tend to push that high a little north. Such is the pattern we have now in the GOM and the wetness we have for these few days is because of disturbances along that jet.
All this should relax in a few days. I will wait until late June and see where the BH sems to be digging in then before making any conclusions on its potential influences.

14/8/4


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Jun 01 2005 07:00 PM
Very busy for June 1

Arlene could be in the making...off Nicaragua (traditional June area), off SC (another traditional June area)...east of the Lesser Antilles? (Not likely, but it has happened!). And the Gulf is pretty unsettled, pressures low.

The expert 'everyone' is talking about is Jim Lushine of Miami NWS and his theory (which I have seen as a presentation several times now) is solid as far as it goes... dry May in S. Fl, hurricane hits there at relatively high frequency. Wet (above normal) May = NO S. Fl hits in recorded history.

Adding to the mix: La Nada years (like last yr and this yr) tend to be the years where Florida takes the most hits and the strongest ones.

Having said that...we have too little reliable history (years) to say for sure any of these empirical facts mean anythig for sure...just correlations so far, that could be 'proven by the exeption to the rule' at any time...but, that is not the way to 'bet'...or hedge your bets.

As for me: bought a super duper ladder, a chainsaw; generator tomorrow. Got a new storage shed and anchored it to 130 mph...so, you can guess what I think will happen....if not in this year, another year.

Be prepared! It's the only way to be in Florida for the next 20+ years (and always).

MM


dem05
(User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 07:32 PM
Re: Very busy for June 1

The conversation has been interesting! I felt I had to jump in too. Everyone seems to be making some valid points on this topic. You just beat me to the punch on mentioning Jim Lushine, but I would like to mention some of the other facts that go into his research and might clear the air a bit.
Jim's reserach is far reaching and crdible. He has served the NWS for 33 years now. His research is what is attracting so much attention. It is probably getting even more attention now because he really brought it to the forefront previous to last season, when south florida had a very dry year. The premise behind the research is simpler than people realize. May is the focus of the research for two important reasons. First, being the month before the season starts, it is the best place to research climate and identify if there are climate precursors for the season. Second, it is a setup month for afternoon thunderstorms. For those who know about the mechanics of FLorida afternoon thunderstom formation, you will also know they form along the seabreeze front. As the evening approaches, the sea breeze weakens and allows thunderstorms to drift toward the coast. If the Bermuda High is stronger, it can be observed that these afternoon storms really can't make their way to the coast in the Miami area and they will typically drift inland. That's where the causal link truely rests.
With that said, there has been mention of midlattitude systems and hurricanes that make landfall in wetter years. Remeber, stronger systems can produce that one, two, or three time event that brings the whole month to average. Those are times that individuals need to look at the overall picture. Nothing in our atmosphere is truely static, any scientist would tell you there's a caveat to everything.
I have saw the gentleman present on this topic just overr a year ago, I am trying to locate any papers he has written on this particular topic now. More and more, I am finding that he has made a lot of contributions to the field of meteorology through my google search.
Either way you wish to read the research. Bottom line... We live in Florida and we should be prepared no matter what!


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Wed Jun 01 2005 07:46 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Quote:

Keith234 -- actually, El Nino events bring about enhanced rainfall to Florida. La Nina events are very, very dry here -- such as we saw in 1998 and 1999 with the vast expanses of burning forest land. Precipitation distributions with El Nino vs. normal for the entire US: http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/papers/us_climate_enso_events/predjf.en.gif

It sort of runs in contrast to what the quotes from the article would suggest for such a scenario and thus forms part of why one needs to take such blanket statements with a grain of salt. The data fits his conclusion, but not why.





Yes, my mistake. El nino's enhance subtropical jet activity, which would obviously bring about more precip. I just remember 97' being offly dry when I went down for 2 weeks to Disney...


Terra
(Storm Tracker)
Wed Jun 01 2005 09:04 PM
Attachment
Re: Experts=Grain of Salt

Quote:

Those of you alive in the early 70's will remember that a LOT of climate scientists were trumpting the fact we were definately headed into a new "Ice Age"...now we are hearing nothing but "Global Warming is a known fact". If you make a wild enough claim, I can pretty much guarantee that you can find a scientist somewhere that will back it up!




I was born in the 70s, so I guess I missed all of the ice age propaganda, but who's to say that ice ages and global warming are not related? Climate change is a very complicated issue, full of many feedback mechanisms. One look at a historical plot of CO2 and temperature data (see attached) will show that if CO2 and temperature both rise 'high enough' feedback will kick in and cause a decrease in both. So, ice ages, global warming, it's all related.... You're right though... you can find reseachers and data to support several positions on any matter.... That's because the Earth is so damn complex!

Anyway, the reason I was originally going to post was to state that I received my first automatic email from the NHC today... So, if you want to fill you inbox this season and not have to constantly go to the nhc site, be sure to sign up today for automatical updates..... go to: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/signup.shtml

I agree with everyone else in that I'm looking for an active season, but no landfall! I love to look at sat images of well defined storms, but I can definitely do without the destruction. In fact, my 3 1/2 year old is scared to death about hurricanes.... I guess maybe he shouldn't watch documentaries on National Geographic that show houses falling down. During the bad rainstorm this weekend, he was worried that our house would get destroyed.... Not good at all!


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Wed Jun 01 2005 09:05 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

This may be a little off topic. And it's not meant to add to or detract from the rainfall theories being discussed.
Here's a little data to add to your questions.
I queried the May rainfall totals from the NWS offices on the FL Peninsula.
Rainfall totals for May 2005 vs May 2004,
and the departure from normal for the month of May

Location____May '05____May '04_____May'05 departure from Normal

Key West_____1.25"____ 0.83"______-2.23"
Marathon Key_3.20"_____0.74"______-2.52"
W Palm Bch___7.48"_____2.89"______+2.09"
Miami_________7.47"____2.45"______+1.95"
Ft Lauderdale__3.28"_____0.74"______-3.05"
Naples________1.46"_____0.64"______-2.75"
Daytona Bch___7.97"_____0.49"______+4.71"
Orlando_______4.57"_____1.91"______+0.83"
Melbourne_____4.09"_____0.99"______+0.15"
Vero Bch______4.80"_____0.09"______+1.00"
Ft Myers_______2.62"_____0.47"______-0.80"
Sarasota_______3.61"_____0.97"______+0.76"
Tampa_________3.61"_____1.44"______+0.76"

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/#


GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Wed Jun 01 2005 09:58 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

That eerily looks like hurricane landfall spots where those minus signs fall. I do hope that there is a steering factor this year that turns these canes into fish.....

h2ocean
(Weather Hobbyist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 10:01 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

I updated my hurricane supply list (learned a lot from last year)!!! Nice to have a gas grill w/ extra tanks. Don't forget coffee - a french press, or even something you can pour hot water through. It was nice having hot coffee when we had no power!

I also am having the company who installed my hurricane panels change the lead anchors to panelmates. I found out what a pain that was to install panels on 23 windows. The panelmates will cut the time at least in half.

I posted this a while back, but in case some didn't see...I added a home weather station with the info. posted on my web page. The anememoter is mounted into the roof trusses (roof was engineered for Cat 4) so it should hold fast. The main weather page is...

http://home.cfl.rr.com/h2ocean/weather.html

and here is a page where the data is updated every 3 seconds or so...

http://home.cfl.rr.com/h2ocean/weather/livewx.html

I am located on Merritt Island in Brevard County, Florida. For info. on my weather station and location you can check out the following link:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/h2ocean/WxStationInfo.html


ftlaudbob
(Storm Chaser)
Wed Jun 01 2005 10:33 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

You guys are great!!!!Just got home from work,and found all your posts very interesting.Thanks!!As I have said before I live 1.5 miles from the beach here in Ft. Lauderdale,so I will be spending alot of time in here over the next few months.Keep up the great posts.

Domino
(Weather Guru)
Wed Jun 01 2005 10:53 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Nice to be back and see everyone still here. I have been put on assignment in Fort Lauderdale for work until further notice. I have been down here since March in a hotel about 10 miles inland.

Had some really nice storms this week - I took some video of one we had Saturday with some rotation as it moved over the hotel. I'll see if I can find a way to post the video online.

Anyone going to the Skywarn classes in Palm Beach this coming Saturday?

Derek


LI Phil
(User)
Wed Jun 01 2005 11:49 PM
New Feature: Met Blogs

I just want to point out to everyone that cfhc now has one of the first "new" features for 2005 up and running, the "Met Blogs" section (it can be accessed from scrolling down on the main page, or in the "News" section under "Met Blogs" on the left hand menu).

Two of our great resident mets, Clark Evans and Jason Kelley (plus Ed Dunham with a "test message") have already submitted their first blogs for the 2005 season.

I urge everyone to check out this new forum and to check back frequently as they constanly update their thoughts on the 2005 Cane Season...

Thanks to Mike (and many others) for this great new feature!


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Wed Jun 01 2005 11:56 PM
Re: Experts=Grain of Salt

Terra -- you're right about the feedback mechanisms. Here's another example, related directly to tropical season: once you reach SSTs of about 31 C, you start to get automatic unorganized (no organization mechanism around) convective development. This happens on occasion near the equator in the West Pacific, serving to lower SSTs due to a reduction in the amount of sunlight reaching the Earth's surface.

This feature, dubbed the convective albedo thermostat, effectively limits the upper bounds of tropical cyclone intensity (related in large part to the sea tmeperatures at and just below the surface) as well as limits the potential for spontaneous tropical develop given sufficiently warm SSTs. Further, one of the markers of increased SSTs lies in El Nino, all in all a negative effect on Atlantic hurricane activity.

Increasing global warming may result in warmth everywhere, though it's likely not going to result in hypercanes, a substantial increase in the number of the storms seen per year (the numbers of which will vary from basin to basin), or really result in any changes to preferred tropical cyclone tracks. Any such changes in the previous two items may be realized, but likely not to as large a degree as some have predicted due to the physical processes noted above.

In any case, there still remains a lot that we don't know about what's going on, namely because our ability to understand hasn't gotten there yet, nor have we seen anything like this before. It will be an interesting few years before we get there.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Jun 02 2005 07:41 AM
Any Chances

Any chances for developement within this train:
http://orca.rsmas.miami.edu/wximages/jet/1_40/anis.html
?


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Jun 02 2005 08:19 AM
Picture of the Day

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

tpratch
(Moderator)
Thu Jun 02 2005 08:20 AM
Re: Any Chances

I'm not as experienced as some of the others here, but typically I don't think we see Cape Verde storms forming until much later in the season.

YMMV SPSFD


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Jun 02 2005 12:37 PM
Re: Any Chances

Typically not until August and September for the Cape Verde season to begin. But with the basin as warm as it is, things could happen sooner. Of note is the significant SST anomaly right of the coast of Africa. But conditions aloft must be favorable as well for development. On another note, what happened to the model links and sat pix links on the main page? Were they moved or deleted? RSVP. Cheerio!

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Thu Jun 02 2005 01:32 PM
Re: Any Chances

The links are still there, but in an older news post. Click on either "News Only" to the left or "See more news" at the top of the main page to see the whole list. It's part of having the blogs around now, too. Ultimately, they may get added to the "Storms Links" page for continual reference.

LI Phil
(User)
Thu Jun 02 2005 03:24 PM
Interesting Flareup

Take a look at the little flare up at about 15N 80W (it appears in the last frame or two)... wv loop. ssts are fairly warm and shear is low...anyone see development potential down the road for this (like a week or so?).

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Thu Jun 02 2005 04:18 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

Phil -- best bet is that it's a result of some diffluence aloft due to the upper low in the eastern Gulf of Mexico. It's projected to lift slowly northward & eastward across Florida over the coming days. If somethnig were to stick around after everything clears out, then it might have a shot down the road -- not sure if this is what the models were picking up on then or not -- but that's 4 days out or so and I'm not sure it'll hold the course there. If anything is going to get going in the near-future, though, it's likely going to be the SW Caribbean once the GoM low clears out -- shear is too great everywhere else.

LI Phil
(User)
Thu Jun 02 2005 06:42 PM
JK on Barometer Bob's Show TONIGHT 8:30 ET

In case anyone missed it in Jason Kelley's blog, he will be appearing as guest on Barometer Bob's radio show tonight. Barometer Bob Show. All ya'll listen in for some great weather talk with a good ole southern drawl....

wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Thu Jun 02 2005 06:51 PM
Re: JK on Barometer Bob's Show TONIGHT 8:30 ET

Our latest weather promo in the works...

(Omnious music)

"2 megawatts of combined power"

"3 terabytes of storage"

"14 megabits of communications bandwidth"

(cut to me, sitting in the weather office with my feet propped up, shorts and flip-flops on, eating Pork Rinds)

"...and a fat balding redneck from Alabama running the show"

"The VIPIR 7 Weather Center...only on NewsChannel 7"

What do you think?


LI Phil
(User)
Thu Jun 02 2005 06:53 PM
Re: JK on Barometer Bob's Show TONIGHT 8:30 ET

>>> (cut to me, sitting in the weather office with my feet propped up, shorts and flip-flops on, eating Pork Rinds)

ok...that's perhaps an image that should stay in the can...

good luck tonite...i'll be listening!


Storm Cooper
(User)
Thu Jun 02 2005 06:57 PM
Re: JK on Barometer Bob's Show TONIGHT 8:30 ET

At least you still have some hair JK And I also am from Alabama

HanKFranK
(User)
Thu Jun 02 2005 08:33 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

been watching that today. gfs has a weak low moving up through the yucatan channel to the florida panhandle over the weekend, as of the 18z run. if that were a deepening low it would move NE across florida in the upper sw flow... models don't really do anything with it. those pesky areas in the western caribbean and near and east of puerto rico later next week are also still appearing. these are low-chance features, but interesting nonetheless.
HF 0129z03june


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Jun 03 2005 07:56 AM
Re: Any Chances

OK, thanks Clark.

doug
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Jun 03 2005 11:04 AM
Re: Interesting Flareup

The board is quite today everybody reflecting on what is persisting south of Cuba?.
While I agree with the board's resident mets that this flare up has all the signs of instability along a trough there are a couple of things that seem to indicate this could be more than that.
Persistence is not a good thing especially over warm water, and this shows no signs of lifting out. It has developed a moisture envelope that suggests a developing low level feature. It has deep tropical source for that moisture. There are several surface areas of instabilityin the area, one especially northwest of it. The trouginess seems to be breaking down and lifting to the North as moisture spills in from the west.
Finally according to Bastardi this morning the GFS develops a low and moves it into the Florida Big Bend in 72 hours.
We should watch this area closely, as I see it transitioning somewhat.


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Jun 03 2005 01:19 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

Not too worried about the goings-on in the NW Caribbean. It's another in the chain of "systems" that has bombarded central Florida with rain this week; as with all of the others, the GFS takes it into north Florida somewhere. Also as with all of the others, it'll likely go south of that across the peninsula. Most of the convection there is a result of divergent (diffluent) upper-level flow across the region and isn't tropical in nature.

The convection out there may be impressive, but the system is incredibly sheared and what circulation may be there -- appears to be upper-level -- is to the west of the convection and just south of another upper-low. There is a large amount of dry air behind it, no surface circulation (per QuikSCAT data), and weak model support. Wind shear may lessen somewhat, but that's mainly an artifact of the low extending from the low-levels to upper-levels on top of itself and not indicative of an upper-level pattern conducive to development.

You can occasionally see development from such systems if they persist out of the midlatitude pattern for some period of time over warm waters, but this system is firmly entrenched in the midlatitude pattern, has cold-core structure & origins, and (per models) only a weak signature near the surface -- 850mb -- and none at the surface as of now. I don't really see anything happening with this system unless it can somewhat detach itself from the midlatitude flow and move southeast from its present location, which isn't terribly likely in my view. More likely than anything however, it's just going to provide south & central Florida with more rain in a day or two.


B.C.Francis
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Jun 03 2005 01:31 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

With all this moisture hitting Florida lately , I guess we won`t have to worry about the raging wild fires like we had in central and south Florida a few years back eh ?...Weatherchef

hockeyucf
(Registered User)
Fri Jun 03 2005 01:42 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

Regarding the flow of moisture from south to north (from an amateur and longtime lurker)... Is this pattern in any way indicative of the path that storms are likely to take this season? I'm in Central Florida, and I'm not used to seeing moisture come from the south- it usually comes from the north/west, unless it's an afternoon seabreeze thing, in which case it comes from the east or west.
Thanks!


B.C.Francis
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Jun 03 2005 03:01 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

To me, all seems normal in the way things are shaping up weather wise for us in Florida. I`m no expert, just an amatuer like so many of us. I remember what this old Florida flat lander that lived next to me in Palm Beach county said"wind from the south, brings rain in his mouth. Wind from the west , rain at best". At first I thought it was kinda corny, but over the years I`ve been made a believer. Now that I live in central Florida on the coast ,when summer comes we see everyday the east and west sea breeze fronts battle it out over your area and which ever one has the most energy determines which coast gets the thunder boomers which is usally anytime after 3:00 in the afernoon for my coast. Anyway I`m not expert, maybe Clark can give you some more detail, I know one thing, he`s answered all of mind when it comes to weather.....Weatherchef

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Jun 03 2005 03:19 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

Not really. The flow pattern we're currently under isn't one that is condusive to tropical activity really anywhere in the basin. If a southerly flow across the state persisted later on into the season, while conditions became condusive elsewhere to development, then anything that approaches this flow pattern will either be caught up in it -- moving across Florida -- or (more likely) will feel its effects well beforehand and move towards the north and east before reaching the coast. Only time will tell as to what happens, but this sort of pattern isn't all that unusual for this time of year for Florida.

MissBecky
(Weather Guru)
Fri Jun 03 2005 05:33 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

Quote:

I don't really see anything happening with this system unless it can somewhat detach itself from the midlatitude flow and move southeast from its present location, which isn't terribly likely in my view. More likely than anything however, it's just going to provide south & central Florida with more rain in a day or two.




That's not good news. We've already had nearly 8 inches of rain at my house. My backyard has been reduced to three feet beyond my back door. The last thing we need in Ft. Myers is more rain.


James88
(Weather Master)
Fri Jun 03 2005 05:40 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

Interesting to note that a disorganised and broad area of low pressure has formed there.

Rich B
(British Meteorologist)
Fri Jun 03 2005 05:53 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

yeah, according to the 530PM TWO there is a weak and disorganised low pressure area in the NW Caribbean. But then you have the following statement in the 205PM TWD:
THE GFS TRIES TO DEVELOP
A LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM ALONG A WEAK SURFACE TROUGH OVER THE
YUCATAN CHANNEL... WHICH IS CONSIDERED UNLIKELY AS THE MODEL
APPEARS TO BE SUFFERING FROM CONVECTIVE FEEDBACK.

Hmmmm...


HanKFranK
(User)
Fri Jun 03 2005 06:40 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

It's interesting.. still just a max on a trough. GFS has been trying to create a low around there for the last couple of days, and there it is in all it's glory. Very formless right now.. Clark and JK have pretty well covered that. Interesting how the late afternoon TWO worded the situation though.. usually get at least an invest when such choice of words is used. The pattern isn't very favorable, but it should at least persist... time isn't an issue at least.
Further east near the islands that active early wave is continuing to generate a decent signature. A trough to the north should disrupt the deep easterly flow enough for some of its energy to get hung near the islands... for the near future. Later next week globals still have a disturbance in the area. maybe a subsequent wave is feeding into it as well.. not sure. either way, there's been some consistency about this feature for 3-4 days now. the same initial wave is in the far western caribbean by that timeframe and may be the culprit in the other low that starts showing up there by that time... from run to run.
nothing very convincing, but interesting for early june. if we still had the name allison floating around that would almost guarantee a june storm... arlene has worked pretty well for early storms too.
HF 2335z03june


Lysis
(User)
Fri Jun 03 2005 07:39 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

if we still had the name allison floating around that would almost guarantee a june storm... arlene has worked pretty well for early storms too.


Wait... what do you mean?

it really means nothing. there just happens to be an early storm when the name arlene is used, more often than not. -HF


LI Phil
(User)
Fri Jun 03 2005 08:40 PM
Re: Interesting Flareup

what he means is that certain storm names (allison was finally retired after 2001 I believe) almost always are memorable, but are not damaging enough to be retired. i believe that until last year, every storm named bonnie reached cane status, and i also believe every storm named "gert" (which is on the list for '05) has also achieved cane status...

as you know, every six years, storm names are recycled, unless they are retired...so certain names over the years gain "reputations" if you will for causing mischief or becoming canes, or whatever...and arlene fits that mold...

EDIT: arlene has traditionally produced a June storm...i didn't read HF's post thoroughly, but the above statement still holds true...


Londovir
(Weather Guru)
Sat Jun 04 2005 02:29 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Greetings to all again in 2005! It's nice to read some familiar posters once again, though I can't say I'm all that glad to be looking another storm season dead in the eyes.

At least this year I have a Bachelor's Degree under my belt that I didn't have last year - though since it's in Mathematics there's little I can do for anyone unless you have an integral or differential to work out.

On the positive side, I still have the code for my hurricane hunter recon decoder program lying on the hard drive, and if necessary, I'll do whatever recoding work on it needed to get it working right for this season. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that I won't need to dust it off - especially because this will also be my first year as a teacher, so I don't need to deal with storm closures, either!

Good luck to us all, and once again, nice seeing everyone on board for another year!


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Jun 04 2005 08:53 AM
NDBC has some new bouys, here's your link

I'm sure probably most are aware of some new bouys now provided by the NDBC in some really good locations, one in the NW Caribbean and the other in the BOC (I'm not sure 42055 is new, but it certainly was not available very often in the past)... here is the link

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/Maps/West_Caribbean.shtml

also the link to the bouys east of the Carribean islands

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/Maps/Caribbean.shtml

Londovir, your recon decoder program last year was a big hit, good luck on your teaching career. I too was a math teacher, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before I got in the rocket testing business..


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Jun 04 2005 01:46 PM
Re: NDBC has some new bouys, here's your link

I'm looking forward to all the good reports from everyone this year. I have been lurking for some time and love all the good reports in the past. When I don't understand anything on the weather reports on television at least I could come here and read what Jason Kelley or HankFrank had to say (as well as others) and this novice was able to understand what was going on. I must say I did enjoy Tom Terry on channel 9 Orlando. He was great through all the hurricanes and stuck with us the whole time. Keep up the good work and I really like the new website. It looks great.

Kandi


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sat Jun 04 2005 04:30 PM
Re: NDBC has some new bouys, here's your link

Looks like our "invest" has become disorganized, and lost some of it's central convection. There is some other open feature by the leeward islands, but there is also some decent southerly shear. A major pattern change has taken shape over the east coast, with a 500 mb ridge now over the east coast, and a trof on the west coast. Right now, teleconnections are not favorable for a "southeast ridge", so for now looks like a wet June for Florida.

BTW, was there a southeast ridge last summer during June and July? I need my memory jogged.


Cycloneye11
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Jun 04 2005 05:51 PM
Re: NDBC has some new bouys, here's your link

Great news about those 2 new bouys that are located well east of the Lesser Antilles because we can obtain data from those bouys as those Systems that are moving westward from Africa get close to them.That 40041 bouy at 14n-46w is the most far bouy that NOAA has east of the islands.

Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Jun 04 2005 06:35 PM
Re: NDBC has some new bouys, here's your link

Yeah Cycloneye, the bouys east of the Lesser Antilles are as important to you as the bouys in the NW Caribbean and BOC to us in the GOM.. should be a great new addition to giving us more data on developing storms.... I just hope they survive the season

Hurricane Fredrick 1979
(Weather Guru)
Sat Jun 04 2005 07:47 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Frank
I agree with you. Even us over here in Mobile was lucky that we didnt get the east side of it. I remember Frederick in 79 when it crossed Dauphin Island and went into Ms. We got the brunt of that one. And I still beleive that Frederick was worse than Ivan. So we will see where we will stand this year. One has the Ms Gulf Coast at a VERY HIGH risk and Mobile at HIGH risk. So we will see.


dem05
(User)
Sat Jun 04 2005 07:57 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

'04 De Ja Vu in the Eastern Carribean. You may remember that Charley and Ivan followed on the heals of retrograding upper level low pressure systems while tracking through the Carribean. The situation is the same now. Not saying anything will develop, its just a very similar pattern observation...An interesting interaction to watch either way.

Heather
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sun Jun 05 2005 01:12 PM
Re: NDBC has some new bouys, here's your link

Quote:

A major pattern change has taken shape over the east coast, with a 500 mb ridge now over the east coast, and a trof on the west coast. Right now, teleconnections are not favorable for a "southeast ridge", so for now looks like a wet June for Florida.




Is this really going to last all month?
It's been raining for days! Atleast it is not as hot.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Jun 05 2005 01:44 PM
near 42506

could there be something in nw carr. sw of cancun? heading north towards GOM. nice flare up of convection. shear appears to be weaking some. water is very warm. pressures appear low in the area.

stormchazer
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Jun 05 2005 04:31 PM
Re: near 42506

Good to see on and all again as we enter June 2005.

I thinkthe action SW of Cancun is part of the weakening trough that the TWO mentioned at 11am. Lot of action SE of Puerto Rico too, but conditions are not favorable for either.


GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Sun Jun 05 2005 04:47 PM
Re: near 42506

Regarding looking for signs of development or non-development as those of us in weary wet Florida, I have noticed this year that we have not had our usual flock of lovebugs. We usually get a multitude of those little carpaint eaters during the end of May and first of June. I have seen some without partners but they were not enthusiastic. We also get the next Swarm around September. Are the lovebugs missing here in Central Florida because we are not going to get hit, or are they missing because they know something we don't? I look at the birds, bees, and other nature signs to forecast the weather since my observations of them are not terribly mathematical and are more concrete. I know that last year before the storms, in June we all had a mess on our cars. In August, we had Charley, followed by the others.

Rob_M
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sun Jun 05 2005 07:20 PM
Trouble next weekend?

Notice the GFS and other globals have been latching onto not one but TWO areas of distubred wx in the Jun 9-12th timeframe for some time now. One in the NW Car/E GOM, the other in the vicinity of PR. Specifics are still hasty, and development itself isn't a sure bet from either area yet...but I'd keep a sharp eye on the tropics this upcoming week.

our latest discussion for more details FWIW
http://www.independentwx.com/discussion.html

More likely than not, if there IS development it'll be from 1 system and not the other...simultaneous June storms are about as rare as it gets (nothing's impossible though).


Storm Cooper
(User)
Sun Jun 05 2005 07:27 PM
Re: Trouble next weekend?

I did not say anything but I did notice that this am on the GFS.... agreed... stay tuned. This may be something related to what JK has talked about a week or so ago. Hopefully he and /or Clark will give their take as well.

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sun Jun 05 2005 09:27 PM
Re: Trouble next weekend?

Both regions in which these disturbances are pegged are projected by the models to be just south of the subtropical jet and moving northward into its vicinity with time, making any significant development unlikely. More likely than not, assuming a surface feature develops, these will be regions that look more impressive than they really are, featuring a good bit of convection but no real tropical punch. This would be assisted by being in the right entrance region of the jet, generally a favorable region for rising motion (and in a general sense, convective activity). Cyclone phase analyses only pick up the one N of PR and show a hybrid structure at development trending even more so through time.

Both features -- whatever comes of them -- will get picked up by midlatitude troughs and taken towards the north and east.

From continuity & looking at the prog charts, the low off of PR is expected to come from the tropical wave currently in the vicinity of the islands (and just east of an upper-level low/TUTT cell) as that upper low retrogrades to the east and weakens. The feature into the Gulf looks to be an artifact of a broader area of low pressure that becomes "organized" over the vicinity of where Adrian made landfall. Both would quickly become engulfed by midlatitude disturbances after development, if they don't become part of that flow beforehand.

I don't expect any tropical development out of either, but some extratropical development might occur....chance of subtropical development maybe with the PR system, if it develops & then manages to stick around in the central Atlantic for some time. It might do that -- but I'd favor extratropical development over all scenarios for now, given the forecast evolution of the upper-level regime as of now. Not too keen on the Gulf scenario; it may end up being a repeat of what we've got going on now (and have for the past few days) in Florida, and that's about the best I'd call for on that one right now.

Sit tight, folks. The season will get started in earnest before we know it...but I don't think either of these systems will be the ones that do it. Watch the one near PR, but don't get your hopes up yet...IMO.


HanKFranK
(User)
Sun Jun 05 2005 11:05 PM
Re: Trouble next weekend?

i'm a little more enthused about the east caribbean system personally. the models have been more consistent on it, and the disturbed weather precursor appears to be there now. right now it's nowhere near being something, though... earlier on the visibles you could see the low level easterlies lancing through the convection at a good clip. there does to seem to be at least some of the pattern-induced forcing element needed to get things started, but only the beginnings. a mid level vortmax from continuous convection and a surface trough would be the next step.. creating a place for a low to develop at the southwest corner of the disturbance.. if the models are to be believed that stuff won't show up until tuesday. there isn't a lot of help from soi, it's weakly negative and not providing the backing these puppies like. i don't look at phase diagrams, but can see 'subtropical' nature it seems to have in that it seems to generate a 500mb weakness around it late next week north of the islands. seems a tad dubious to me (but then we're dealing with a dubious at best feature to begin with). think if anything comes it'll be tropical, unless like clark says it gets up to the north and decides to jet out.
for the west carib feature, it's less consistent and if present will be riding nnw or nw as it nears florida, complements of the upper ridge poised to sit over the mid atlantic going into next week. that would be a shear-kill scenario. noticed that the 18z gfs run leaves a chunk behind near south florida about ten days out, then kicks it out northeast. clunky evolution on that one right now, not convincing.
pattern may progress again late in the period if the ensembles are to be believed.. eastern ridge weakens and a trough digs in off the east coast. we'll be riding easy if that sort of trick is pulled when the longtrackers are roaming west. but i'd have to say that the westerlies and subtropical jet are already getting muddled... and there's been a tendency to tropical moisture flows out of the caribbean recently. anything down there will probably get pushed towards florida, in any case. not that it matters a great deal in june... june systems are usually rainy and weak.
anyhow, nuff said. we've got what may be an 'on' week (at least probably an invest to watch), and it's just week 2 of the season.
HF 0405z06june


Toto
(Registered User)
Sun Jun 05 2005 11:09 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Greetings all!
I watch this forum with great interest, as I live in the Cayman Islands, on Grand Cayman. I don't really know much about meteorology, but I can always add my two cents worth of eyewitness accounts and local reports when a system passes my way! BTW we still have something like 1,700 people without power since Ivan, according to a recent newspaper article.


GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Mon Jun 06 2005 06:11 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

I am no rocket scientist, nor meterologist, but this morning at 6:08am EDT, the weather feature north of the islands, is looking very suspicious. I know that there are troughs, shear and other hidden clauses in the contract, but the first thing I see this morning is at least spinning in two different directions. It is in a nice warm place, and having travelled in that area in the past by cruise ship, I know that there is a lot of nice water for it to sit on.

tornado00
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Jun 06 2005 09:17 AM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Does appear that anything that does develope will move towards the northeast.

Wingman51
(Weather Guru)
Mon Jun 06 2005 12:33 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

The 11:30 am update is looking at development near Pueto Rico with a NW movement and favorable conditions - - - any thoughts??

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Mon Jun 06 2005 12:58 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Conditions are marginally more favorable, as the TWO suggests. The upper low that has been present in the area is moving westward, leaving the area in a region of shortwave (localized) upper-level ridging. As a result, though, the diffluence enhancing convection is starting to lessen. Kind of a chicken and egg type thing, yeah, but we're still looking a few days down the road. Depending on which model you look at, per JK's blog post & some analysis, some develop the W Carib feature, others develop the E Carib feature.

Things are slightly more favorable to see tropical develop in the E Carib right now than they were yesterday, but I still believe non-tropical (likely subtropical/hybrid) development, once the system starts, is more likely. This has some support from the globals. We'll see what happens, but it's something to keep an eye on.


Wingman51
(Weather Guru)
Mon Jun 06 2005 01:01 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

thanks for the clarification - - Just got my stumps ground and not really in the mood to track 24/7 just yet - - praying for shear!!!!

doug
(Weather Analyst)
Mon Jun 06 2005 01:26 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Since the WCarib feature will have more immediate effect on my location (more rain) I am prone to focus there. As I said Friday persistence in these things is not a good sign, if you don't want development, and persistence we have and according to sat pics some form of circulation. IF NOT FOR THE SHEAR, (SW-NE) we may be more concerned with that than we are.
However the pattern is changing; the trough is breaking down, ridging is showing signs of developing, at least to the east of this feature...
The ECarib feature will not effect US mainland no matter what develops...
so I caution to watch the WCarib.


mysticalmooons
(Weather Watcher)
Mon Jun 06 2005 01:47 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

Do you think that this system might be trying to develop since they are sending a recon flight to investigate? Another interest is a large area of convestion to the sw carribian near central america. Large concentrated thunderstorms

What u all think?



WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE FLIGHTS
CARCAH, TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER, MIAMI,FL
1030 AM EDT MON 06 JUN 2005
SUBJECT: TROPICAL CYCLONE PLAN OF THE DAY (TCPOD)
VALID 07/1100Z TO 08/1100Z JUN 2005
TCPOD NUMBER.....05-010

I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. NEGATIVE RECONNAISSANCE REQUIREMENTS.
2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY: PSBL LOW LEVEL INVEST
NEAR 17.5N AND 67.0W FOR 08/2000Z.

II. PACIFIC REQUIREMENTS
1. NEGATIVE RECONNAISSANCE REQUIREMENTS.
2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY.......NEGATIVE.


doug
(Weather Analyst)
Mon Jun 06 2005 02:11 PM
Re: The 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season Begins Today

The possible investigationyou reference is the ECarib feature. The interest in these items stems from persistence in the WCarib, and better signature in the ECarib, meaning that if something tropical develops it will do so more quickly there, than in the W Carib, where the weather features effecting development are more sharply defined; i.e. a narrow sharp trough/ upper low to the nw over the western Yucatan and a very narrow ridge between that upper low feature and the one just ahead of the Ecarib feature, which upper low is just south of Hispanola.
I think the trough to the nw of the Wcarib feature will erode over the next few days and the ridge will build and if a low develops it will come from the tropical flow coming off the northern SA coast and will likely deepen near Hondouras to the point where there may be an invest there in a few days.

But that is just me thinking out loud.


Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Mon Jun 06 2005 03:36 PM
Interesting

As if we don't already have enough rain hitting us in Central Florida + other parts, looks like we might get a double punch. On the west coast, we have the moisture that justs keeps feeding and feeding off the moisture near Cuba; and from what I caught on the ABC Action News noon report, there may be a system *trying* to develop off the east coast by the weekend. Mr. Shattuck did NOT say it would develop, he just said it's something that we "will definitely keep an eye on and will definitely bring more rain our way."
Since the weekend's 5/6 days away, it will be interesting to see what actually happens.


rmbjoe1954
(Weather Master)
Mon Jun 06 2005 04:23 PM
Re: Interesting

As the water temperatures are already hovering over 80 degrees it would only take a decrease in sheer for something 'tropical' to develop; but it sounds as if we are in it for the rain- at the very least!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Jun 06 2005 06:24 PM
Re: Interesting

hey, yea this is all really interesting..this is gonna be a very anxioius summer huh?

haha well i was wondering if theres a chance of any hurricanes hitting long island this year..and if not, then is it even possible?

they say that one hits long island every 10 years. i have been here for 16 years, and not one hurricane. I guess im that lucky.

Oh yea and also, i hear that this year into next year the hurricane change has incresed from last year

can someone please correct me if i'm wrong, thnaks a bunch.

||Ryan||
------------------------
2005:
-10 named storms
-6 hurricanes
-4 major hurricanes

p.s.-also, i am predicted a busier NC and SC season than a florida season.



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