(User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 07:55 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

>>> Tropical Depression #13 has been declassified earlier in the day, and is no longer being tracked by the Hurricane Center.

best damn news i've heard all day...

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:01 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I am on your side-- thanks for a great job Phil, Mike, Ed--you guys do a wonderful service. Now we just get to get it all back in place. Tomorrow I send my package. Kevin

trinibaje

(Weather Guru)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:01 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

>>> Tropical Depression #13 has been declassified earlier in the day, and is no longer being tracked by the Hurricane Center.

best damn news i've heard all day...

ain't that the truth Phil!

now the clean up begins.. i hope for the best for those in Louisiana and Mississippi

(Storm Tracker)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:03 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I just saw aerial video of New Orleans..the flooding is much worse than they originally thought..as far as the eye could see was water..the estimates of 40,000 homes under water was not exagerated..it was incredible to see!

GulfBreezeFL

(Registered User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:03 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Not to mention Alabama, which may have been hit by surge in Mobile harder than anywhere else, considering their inability to handle the water. Also, extreme western FL panhandle took some heavy flooding as well.

tpratch

(Moderator)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:08 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Potentially good news, yes. Surely you can remember back a week or so to a short-lived TD-10.

I'm sure tomorrow morning and the light of a new day will show how terrible a Cat 4 landfall can be. I'm not looking forward to it myself.

(Storm Tracker)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:10 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

CNN is showing live pictures from a helicopter now...for those who want to see it

Lysis

(User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:18 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Wow... we have a 965mb tropical storm. That is interesting.

On that idea of a considerably low pressure in comparison to windspeed... is it really fair to call Katrina 'more intense' than Andrew at landfall based on barometric pressure alone? Not to discredit the storm... which very well may supercede Andrew in another area as the most destructive hurricane in history, but this just seems awkward. I suppose at this juncture it is irrelivant.

(Storm Tracker)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:21 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

both Andrew and Katrina were (are) unique and will be remembered for a very long time.
they both fit the Catastrophic descritption.

(Admin)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:32 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Can anyone explain this photo to me, it appears like a house floating in Mobile bay. Someone sent me this, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

(Weather Watcher)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:34 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Houseboat maybe, that broke free?

Wxwatcher2

(Storm Tracker)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:35 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Interested to learn the science behind two aspects of Katrina.
one, why it spread out so much prior to landfall
secondly, it seems lately that most gulf storms weaken prior to landfall.
Still Katrina packed a powerful punch but it did spread out over a huge area
prior to impacting land.

Thoughts and prayers to all who are impacted by the storm and it's aftermath.
Lets all try and help if even in a small way.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:37 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

It is most interesting but that's how it goes. Let's move forward and help.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:41 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I would bet that house doesn't belong there Mike. I drive I-10 and can't identify. Causeway anyone?

Random Chaos

(Weather Analyst)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:44 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Can anyone explain this photo to me, it appears like a house floating in Mobile bay. Someone sent me this, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

Could that be the oil rig that struck a bridge in Mobile Bay?

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:47 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

No, oil rigs don't look like that I promise.
ps my father(s) have been in the oil business since Pan Am said bring your own luch.

(Meteorologist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:50 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Storms as they move northward generally tend to grow in size. The same often holds for those that undergo eyewall replacement cycles; the system as a whole grows as a new, larger eyewall forms and replaces the smaller one. External influences can play a role upon this as well, but it's largely driven by inner-core changes.

We've seen three major storms this year -- Emily, Dennis, and now Katrina -- all undergo eyewall replacement cycles shortly before landfall. Generally, these came after periods of rapid intensification before landfall, as is expected for such storms. The very favorable conditions in the central Gulf lead, in all three cases, to scenarios favorable for the storms to ramp up rapidly. As a result, eyewall replacement cycles likely (since we don't know a *lot* about eyewall cycles, I have to qualify that statement like so) had an increased chance of occurring, leading to temporary weakening. As the storms neared the coast, the shallower waters -- not necessarily cooler, except in perhaps Dennis' case -- and the residual effects of the eyewall cycle plus (not always the case) increasing interaction with the midlatitudes lead to a decreased propensity to come in quite as strong as the storms once were.

Ultimately, it's partially luck and partially science at play here. Each storm stil packed quite the punch, just perhaps not as much as it could have. And, it's not always going to happen like this in the future, though a lot of times Gulf storms late in the season do weaken due to very shallow depths of warm water. Nevertheless, Katrina is going to go down in the record books; it may not have been the catastrophe that many feared, but it still did billions of dollars in damage to New Orleans, Biloxi, Gulfport, Pascagoula, Mobile, and all areas in between and further inland. We'll be cleaning up from this one -- and trying to understand why the track shifted less than three days before landfall like it did and trying to see if the storm could have maintained itself (absent an eyewall cycle) as it approached land -- for many months. Best of luck to all of those in the affected areas.

(Weather Watcher)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:53 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Just heard someone estimate the cost of damage will be more than the total of the four hurricanes last year. To help, they are asking for donations to the American Red Cross.

(User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 08:54 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Can anyone explain this photo to me, it appears like a house floating in Mobile bay. Someone sent me this, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

i just hope that's not rick's boat...

Sheeper

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:04 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

indeed the Red Cross is faced with it's largest mobilization ever. already hundreds of volunteers from across the country and paid staff are deployed and mobilized to the impacted areas. I'm heading there myself as a second wave to relieve the first ARC teams. I'm waiting for my assignments and dates.

The relief effort will last many weeks. Food, shelter, water and a shoulder to rest on are all provided by the Red Cross and all is provided by donated dollars. The recovery effort will doubtless last much longer....years in fact. The Red Cross will be there for that too. All the while we're monitoring and watching for the next one. Especially here, on the east coast of florida. The ARC won hearts here last season with our double hit. Now of course, the double hit seems insignificant.

(Storm Tracker)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:07 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Just a few updates for those who have friends who evacuated..many of the images on TV of flooded neighborhoods are not on the east side of New Orleans..one of the worst places hit was Metarie, west of the city...virtually the whole area was flooded..as for those wishing to get back, police and national guard have shut down both US90 and I10 going into Mississippi at the AL/MS border until further notice....the interstate is not passable in MISS....and I hope the floating house above is not Felix Fish House on the Mobile Causeway, my favorite restaurant over there

Genesis

(Weather Guru)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:09 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Looks like a commercial structure to me - a store of some kind. The front facade is definitely not residential, unless its 2-story and part of a larger unit of townhouses or something that broke free!

This is truly horiffic - here's a shot out my back door, at about 6:00 this evening. In Niceville, on the bay. That's roughly 200 nm east, 10 miles inland and 6 hours post-storm-peak, albiet with a ~4 mile fetch.

MissouriHurricane2008

(Verified CFHC User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:22 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Damage is looking worse than thought in New Orleans. Mississippi got the brunt of it hard and bad. I feel for Mobile too. Here in Central Missouri, I know of a couple Power Crews on the way to Missippi to help out. Thank God it wasnt a Cat. 5 with the eye to the west of New Orleans.

Sportsfreak1989s

(Registered User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:27 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Well we just now heard from our family in Grand Bay, Alabama (about 20 miles south of Mobile, about 6 miles from the coast line)... First off, half of my grandpa's barn's roof is gone/ "disappeared". My grandma and grandpa's shed has exploded. It litterally exploded due to their water pipe being under their shed. My uncle's "shop" is almost gone. My aunt, who did have a stroke 3 days after Dennis, her roof on her house is off in patches. My other Unlce's roof is gone, as in you can see the sky all through their house. My cousin's mobile home in Bayou La Batre is under water; the only thing viewable on it is the very tip of her roof. Well as for me in Lafayette Louisiana, I have had a few tree branches down in my yard and basketball goals blown down but thats about it. But thankfully they are fine, and hopefully many many more people are also fine.

The video all over TV has been making me sick to my stomach lately. Just seeing all these helpless people's homes under water, demolished to the ground, etc. is making me sick.

I hope and pray that every single one of ya'll are safe and are also fine. I am deeply praying that people ranging from New Iberia, Louisiana all the way to Panama City, Florida if not further are also safe.

Has anyone else heard from their family that have been effected by this storm? If so I hope they are fine.

God Bless All, and I would like to thank this wonderful site on the constant updates and keeping me informed so well about this monsterous hurricane. Thanks and God Bless ALL....

-Andy

(Weather Guru)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:30 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Historical peak of Atlantic HS is still 1/2 month away. (~Sept 12-13) Unfortunately, we'll probably be meeting like this at least a few more times this year.

Bear in mind that History repeats, even recent events such as we're currently suffering from can come back down the pike in a very short time. South Florida and the Gulf Coast have not earned a free pass for the rest of the decade or even the balance of 2005.

Buckle up Kids; for the next 15-25 Years

HanKFranK

(User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:30 PM

katrina out, 13 out?, 91 in?

katrina is inland, approaching the columbus/starkville area as a diminishing tropical storm. there's still some wind damage going on, and probably localized flooding from rains. the tornado threat over tennessee and kentucky tomorrow should keep some people on their toes, but katrina seems to be mostly over.
daylight assessments tomorrow are not going to be pretty. new orleans got off a hundred times better than i'd expected.. had the eye moved ten or fifteen miles to the west or the storm passed by as a 5, the city would be a loss right now. looks like a rough equivalent of what the city got from betsy, as far as the extent of flooding and wind damage.
areas that we haven't heard a great deal from that are probably much worse off are the delta towns and the mississippi coast. the small towns in the delta.. buras, pilottown, empire, venice.. are probably in shambles. i'd expect that numerous structures were obliterated by surge and extreme winds.. the hurricane was still a solid cat 4 when it crossed that location... with a pressure near 920mb. nearby offshore oil rigs are likely to have been damaged as well.
the landfall on the mississippi coast happened with the hurricane at around 930mb. pressure more directly dictates surge than wind speed, so the surges as expected approached or even exceeded 20 ft near and to the east of bay st louis. pass christian, gulfport, biloxi, and ocean springs i'd expect to have significant surge damage, and extensive wind damage as well. if people stayed behind in the low lying areas nearby they are likely dead. pascagoula over to mobile had significant tidal surge damage and light to moderate structural damage as well, i'd expect. inland towns like picayune and poplarville should have extensive wind damage... probably a modest amount further north around laurel and hattiesburg. slidell, covington, and bogalusa louisiana should have had a similar experience.
for the future, td 13 troughed out today. a sizable convective burst on the southern end has persisted and may redevelop, as it was showing a near-closed or closed circulation on visible earlier and has a 1.5 t-rating. whether it redevelops or not its future is the north atlantic. old 97L's remnant circulation is approaching disturbed weather to the west, but is likely too far gone. a small, sheared low level turning well east of florida is moving east and in this general direction as well. there is no strong model support for any of these features.
91L transferred emphasis to a racing itcz burst/turning near 10/30. this system is moving too quickly to develop in the short term, but may slowly organize as it trucks west. several global models move this system wnw into the central atlantic and develop it... gfs traps it south of bermuda in the long range.
a pattern pulse behind katrina as a large high settles in out of canada is shown on some of the globals to develop a low off the east coast on its wake trough. euro has more of a gulf feature that migrates west. cyclogenesis is favored in this general region late in the week/weekend timeframe, so am looking for model consistency.
there's a large african wave coming off tomorrow as well. globals showing waves tracking west, but not as gung-ho about development as in recent times. prospects of getting lee during august not terribly high with the demise of td 13.
HF 0130z30august

tpratch

(Moderator)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:31 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Can anyone explain this photo to me, it appears like a house floating in Mobile bay. Someone sent me this, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

I've attached a cropped version with the levels tweaked to promote contrast. I'd have to say that looks very much like a house...

(User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 09:37 PM

TSFH-2

>>> Buckle up Kids

OK, ya'll owe me $200 for copywrite infringement...

you're right though...we're not even AT the peak of the season...and to think i was gonna use "TSFH2" as my 2005 catchphrase...

this is just awful and to think the season could actually get any worse really makes me sick to my stomach...

i was telling all my co-workers/parents/friends last friday that traditionally, every year, the three most vulnerable cities are NO, Miami & Hattaras, with NY/LI being up there...

god i hope and pray none of us anywhere gets another monster, but since katrina will probably "set a few records" (in a bad way), maybe this will be "it" for the season...to think that this one storm could, at least monetarily, surpass the "big 4" from last year is truly frightening....and sickening.

(Admin)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:06 PM

Re: TSFH-2

Here is a video clip of a coast guard helecopter rescue of someone stranded on their rooftop...

Video link

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:11 PM

Re: TSFH-2

KATRINA--
May you be it for the season. Amen.....

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:17 PM

Re: TSFH-2

ps here in Arkie land we understand 17,785 with no elec in LA and over 20K without in MS. We sent whats left of our National Guard. Goodnite and Godbless.

(Storm Tracker)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:20 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

to answer a question from last page....why Gulf storms peak then weaken.

I'll go with the "too much fuel" or "too high of an octane" theory. There is too much warm/hot water that Gulf that hurricanes floor the gas peddle and deepen very rapidly but they reach a point of critical mass (or strength) and then implode (for lack of a better term) due to "mechanical" breakdown from over-reving the engine.

It was obvious that Katrina was in a perfect environment for becoming a 175mph Cat 5 yesterday (and you just had that feeling she was going to do something big) but it then after spinning like a perfect top, she suddenly got the wobbles (first) which (then) allowed the dry air to take a big bite out of her strength.

Note that Camille landed as a Cat 5 because she had such a short life, starting just South of Cuba and did not over-rev her engine (for too long). I'll even presume based on pressures and winds that Camille never had an ERC.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:27 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

One thing to remember with the insurance estimates are those are estimates EXCLUDING damage caused by flooding. Private insurance industry does not calculate that into its cost. And from the aerial shots I've seen so far, it appears that there is a tremendous amount of flood damage. So, the total cost will be significantly higher.

Psyber

(Storm Tracker)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:31 PM

Re: TSFH-2

Remeber also that the pumps keeping New Orleans dry when theres no hurricanes(that run 24 hours a day, 365 days of the year) are not running right now. The flooding is going up, hurricane or no hurricane....

Also, one more note:
Anyone needing 911 service in ordered evacuation areas should be charged some sort of fee. Up here, you call in/pull a false fire alarm, you get a $500 fine and are liable for any damage/deaths caused by the emergency services responding to your own stupidity...

(Weather Guru)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:32 PM

Re: TSFH-2

Phil, What does this mean? "i was gonna use "TSFH2" as my 2005 catchphrase..."

I'll delete this after you reply...

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:36 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

News about Jackson County.

I haven't heard from my brother that I've been so worried about today, but after about 8 hours of assuming the worst, it dawned on me that logically that couldn't be the case.

His wife was working emergency management on the other side of the county, and if she had not been able to get hold of him then somebody would have checked it out around early evening, as soon as the winds got lower and they could get a boat over to the other side of the county. And if something bad had happened I reasoned she would have found a way to notify somebody in the family. So he must be ok, since we haven't heard anything this evening.

I don't know how I got so upset that I didn't think about this in the first place.

Now the 2nd brother, the one no one ever hears from, we now find out that he evacuated to Mobile with his wife at the last minute and they stayed with someone they knew, and then came back to Jackson County as soon as driving was possible (probably using that back road that you can take to the airport in Mobile that only the locals know about, along the pecan grove and those oddball cotton fields). He was able to call out by cell phone and called brother #4 in TX.

His house up in the county doesn't flood (around Helena I think), although he had trees down.

He then went sightseeing in his Durango, and to check out everyone else's house.

Apparently the water had started to recede as soon as the wind did.

My brother that I haven't heard from (brother #1), his house is still in four feet of water, but it had been almost totally underwater earlier in the day, so that shows that the water has already receeded at least six feet. This house is just south of Ingalls Ave.

The house that my mother and brother #3 live in, in Moss Point, is probably flooded as well, but they couldn't get to it because of all the roads there are still flooded too deep to drive an SUV through.

A lot of the county is still flooded, and that it was really bad, and the house we grew up in was standing in about four feet of water (Pinecrest area).

So pretty much everything south of Hwy 90 in Pascagoula did get serious flooding, as well as other places north of 90, if they were near a bayou or the estuary, and sounds like some of Moss Point. No news about the other side of the county (he couldn't get over there).

Plus I imagine all the places that always flood anyway, such as Bayou La Batre.

No one could get down close to Beach Blvd. There are some wonderful homes there including some that are more than 100 years old. But if there were waves with the flood, which I am sure there must have been, I can only assume that beautiful Beach Blvd is wiped out.

(User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:42 PM

Re: TSFH-2

Quote:

Phil, What does this mean? "i was gonna use "TSFH2" as my 2005 catchphrase..."

I'll delete this after you reply.

no need to delete...last year, about 1/2 to 3/4ths of the way into the season (before ivan & jeanne, but after charley and frances) i dubbed 2004 "The Season From Hell (or TSFH for short)" . Somewhat jokingly, at the beginning of this season, i was thinking about a catchphrase for this year..."Buckle Up" for some reason came to mind, and i kept it...but i did strongly consider TSFH-2 and decided after last year, (1) how could this year be worse and (2) i'd prolly be in bad taste...i was wrong on both accounts

>>> Anyone needing 911 service in ordered evacuation areas should be charged some sort of fee. Up here, you call in/pull a false fire alarm, you get a $500 fine and are liable for any damage/deaths caused by the emergency services responding to your own stupidity...

i realize where you are coming from with a post like this...but in light of what just happened...realizing that many people COULDN'T (for whatever reason) or WOULDN'T evac...due to pets, sick relatives, whatever...well, you kind of sound like an (expletive not permitted)...you gotta be kidding me

Rasvar

(Weather Master)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:44 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

This storm is going to tax all relief services to their limit. It is also going to be difficult for the insurance companies to get a good handle and settle the logistics on this one. It is going to be difficult for the aid organizations to get into these areas as fast as they usually do because of the widespread nature of the damage. Many of the main arteries have been severely crippled. This storm may not have had the winds of Andrew; but the scope of the destruction may very well be much worse because of how widespread it is.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:47 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I am wondering if anyone has any news about 3 areas in particular that, it seems to me, are most at risk of catastrophic damage and loss of life (and coincidentally happen to have been wonderful places): Grande Isle LA, Pass Christian MS and Bay St. Louis MS. The news reports constantly refer to Biloxi, but these two MS locations were closer to the eye and the eye probably passed right over Grande Isle when at it's strongest on land. I fear they could have been nearly wiped out. Anyone know?

Rasvar

(Weather Master)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:50 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I had not heard about the others; but a couple of hours I ago I did hear that all communication system failed in Bay St Louis. Don't know if any amateur radio info has gotten out of there. My antennas were disabled in a storm a few weeks back, so I am unable to listen.

(Meteorologist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 10:54 PM

Piecing New Orleans Together

I've spent most of the evening piecing together various television, Internet, and print media reports together trying to determine the extent of the damage to New Orleans. Most reports have come in near downtown, for obvious reasons, but there have been scattered reports elsewhere. Note that there have been few reports thus far from the Mississippi and Alabama coastlines -- everything I've heard has bordered on total destruction -- so I am just going to focus on New Orleans for now.

Of all areas in and around Southeast Louisiana, the central business district appeared to fare the best. Areas around the Superdome & downtown have sustained some major wind damage, with several building collapses and numerous trees down, but they largely escaped flooding and storm surge impacts. The French Quarter is in much the same boat as the CBD.

As you move more than about 10 blocks away in any direction, however, things get worse in a hurry. Reports of 12-15ft of water have come in near Tulane University. Slightly lower amounts have been found SW of town and between town and the Tulane area, but this still leaves 4-8' of standing water. Similar wind damage has occurred in this area to those downtown.

The worst part of town, as the media reports have focused on, is the West Bank and the 9th Ward, all largely between the Mississippi and the Gulf waters themselves. This includes areas such as Chalmette and is a microchasm of what was likely seen further to the SE in areas such as Venice and Buras. Most of this area took a direct hit from the western eyewall and has seen waters to the tops of houses. Making things worse is the fact that this area had the greatest percentage of people who could not or would not evacuate. I imagine many buildings in this area are total losses.

The Slidell area appears to have suffered from a similar fate, even with quite a bit of flooding, but the impacts from flooding are not quite as great there due to the angle of the coastline.

As you head north out of New Orleans, towards the lake, water levels rise once again. Parts of I-10 are still above water, but many parts of it are not. Areas around the Metairie Cemetary are under 12-15' of water. Heading west towards Metairie and Kenner -- and the New Orleans/Louis Armstrong Intl. Airport & Jefferson Parrish -- waters overtopped the levee system and have resulted in 4-6' of water in many locations. Some areas may have been spared floodwaters in homes and businesses, but only just so; slight undulations in elevation are the likely culprits for this. Nevertheless, roads such as Metairie Ave., Airline Hwy., and Williams Blvd. have sections under many feet of water. Water began topping the levees along the lake in Kenner and Metairie early Monday and continued into the afternoon hours.

Note that many people trying to get into the city from the west are stuck in the middle on elevated portions of road due to the higher waters between the east side of Metairie and the north/west sides of downtown.

Regions west of the airport in St. Charles Parrish, such as Destrehan, suffered an even worse fate due to the lack of levee protection. The levees end right along the St. Charles/Jefferson Parrish border, not far from the airport, and part of this distinction led to parts of both parrishes flooding. The flooding does not appear to be quite as bad here as to the east of the city, but still worse than most other parts of the city. Wind damage does not appear to be quite as bad, but the water is bad enough to cause major structural damage.

Residents say this event is worse than the extreme flooding of the city that occurred during May 8-9, 1995, where over 12" of rain fell at the airport in a 24hr span. Flooding was widespread across town and resulted in over $3 billion in damages, the costliest non-tropical weather event in US history. Coupled with the higher flood waters and the very strong winds, a conservative estimate of damage in New Orleans alone is likely $6 billion dollars. This does not even account for damage done to oil rigs in the Gulf, anything occurring south and southeast of the city near where the storm made landfall, or anything in Mississippi and Alabama (yet alone Florida, Georgia, and shortly Tennessee). The LSU damage estimate predictions -- available at http://www.nola.com/hurricane/content/katrina_projected_flooding082805.pdf -- appear to match very well with what was observed in the city, not a surprise given that these particular projections were run for a 115mph category 3 storm passing over the city -- essentially what the city saw on the west side of a slightly stronger Katrina.

Many, many people -- 775,000 last I saw -- have lost power and the entire region except for the CBD is under a boil water alert. The standing waters are going to be full of disease over the coming weeks and months and it is going to take probably a full month for the waters to recede in the eastern parts of the city. The safest parts of the city probably will not open back up for residents until late this week, if that, and power will likely not be restored for some time to come. While New Orleans was spared the absolute worst and the images coming in out of the CBD, bad as they are, may suggest that the city wasn't affected all that badly, everywhere else in and around town took the full force of this storm and took it hard. Keep everyone in your thoughts and prayers over the weeks to come as they try to recover from this storm.

If I get a chance and reports start to file in from the MS/AL coastlines -- a few are available at http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/12508173.htm -- I'll try to work on a similar report for those regions. Do note that in a 2.5hr span from 6-8:30p ET in the Atlanta region, 32 separate tornado warnings were issued for cells along the eastern periphery of the storm. The effects of this system are still far-reaching, even as it spins down, and will have to be watched through the middle of the week as it heads towards the NE US.

A very good source to keep up-to-date with the latest reports from New Orleans is the Nola.com blog at http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/...08.html#074957. It is updated on a near-constant basis with the latest information. In the half-hour I spent gathering this information, a pumping station in Kenner came back online -- good news for the west side -- and a report from Mandeville came in, suggesting they largely escaped flooding but most roads are impassable due to downed trees.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:08 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

While viewing the latest raw aerial video of NO flooded areas, Joe Scarborough at MSNBC stated it reminded him of the tsunami damage from last year, and that, just as we did for the tsunami victims, we need to help the relief efforts in the effected areas. If you can, folks, send whatever you can to the Red Cross or Salvation Army. It's gonna be a long, hard road for quite a few northern Gulf people.

nate77

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:12 PM

Re: Piecing New Orleans Together

Some one help me out here...

I just heard reports from local TV that a county in Mississippi has confirmed at least 50 people dead in that county.

(Verified CFHC User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:21 PM

Re: Piecing New Orleans Together

Quote:

Some one help me out here...

I just heard reports from local TV that a county in Mississippi has confirmed at least 50 people dead in that county.

That is correct. WKRG in Mobile has a live feed on the internet. One of their reporters stopped in Biloxi on the way back from Louisiana and interviewed people. They just announced that they have 50 confirmed deaths so far in the Biloxi area..I don't remember the county name but it's in the Biloxi area...I just saw the clip again..Harrison County.

This reporter interviewed an older man who said he lost his wife. He said the water was rising in their house and he was holding on to his grandchildren and his wife. His wife told him to let her go...to tend to their grandchildren. He let her go and she was washed away.

So sad...

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:23 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

I am wondering if anyone has any news about 3 areas in particular that, it seems to me, are most at risk of catastrophic damage and loss of life (and coincidentally happen to have been wonderful places): Grande Isle LA, Pass Christian MS and Bay St. Louis MS. The news reports constantly refer to Biloxi, but these two MS locations were closer to the eye and the eye probably passed right over Grande Isle when at it's strongest on land. I fear they could have been nearly wiped out. Anyone know?

I watched the landfall very carefully, zooming in on the radar. The northern part of the eyewall went north right into the western MS coast, from the LA/MS state line over to Long Beach. The NE quad of the eye went N over Gulfport and Biloxi.

The western eyewall was just to the east of NO and I-10. I also saw a particularly strong section of the eyewall rotate over the Slidell area, which was in the NW section of the eyewall, so I assumed they were hit severely.

I have not heard any news for any place to the west of Gulfport. It was very creepy not hearing any news, because of what Camille did from Waveland to Pass Christian.

Plus I made the mistake of going to a friend's house and looking at the network TV news. We switched between ABC, CBS, and NBC, and guess what the hurricane was about? The superdome roof, two feet of flooding in the French Quarter, and the cost of your gasoline is going to go up. I was so shocked. I thought, this terrible, terrible thing has happened and no one in the country has any idea because it is invisible to the media. Then we turned on the public television channel and it was a thoughtful interview with the MEMA director (MS's EMA), Frank Latham I think, and it made my day to hear him say that as soon as the winds died down enough that it was possible, search and rescue operations would start. Just knowing that made me feel so much better.

nate77

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:25 PM

Re: Piecing New Orleans Together

Quote:

Quote:

Some one help me out here...

I just heard reports from local TV that a county in Mississippi has confirmed at least 50 people dead in that county.

That is correct. WKRG in Mobile has a live feed on the internet. One of their reporters stopped in Biloxi on the way back from Louisiana and interviewed people. They just announced that they have 50 confirmed deaths so far in the Biloxi area..I don't remember the county name but it's in the Biloxi area.

This reporter interviewed an older man who said he lost his wife. He said the water was rising in their house and he was holding on to his grandchildren and his wife. His wife told him to let her go...to tend to their grandchildren. He let her go and she was washed away.

So sad...

OMG..

Harrison County was where this happened

(Verified CFHC User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:26 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

I am wondering if anyone has any news about 3 areas in particular that, it seems to me, are most at risk of catastrophic damage and loss of life (and coincidentally happen to have been wonderful places): Grande Isle LA, Pass Christian MS and Bay St. Louis MS. The news reports constantly refer to Biloxi, but these two MS locations were closer to the eye and the eye probably passed right over Grande Isle when at it's strongest on land. I fear they could have been nearly wiped out. Anyone know?

I hate to think of the possible damage in Grand Isle.
I don't know about Pass Christian.

A reporter getting back to Mobile said that when she got to the Bay St. Louis exit on I-10, it was closed. She said the flooding there was Unreal. She had a video clip of that area...the water was almost all the way up to the top of the Red Light which she said is over 10 feet high. It basically looked like a lake right off of I-10.

That is all I've heard/seen.

(Admin)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:38 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Tomorrow is going to be one of those dreadful days where the media and everyone else will wake up to more of what happened. It's close to Camille level damage, but more spread out along that part of the coast, I think.

I hope I'm wrong. Katrina is why I hate hurricanes.

(Verified CFHC User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:39 PM

Re: Piecing New Orleans Together

Quote:

Some one help me out here...

I just heard reports from local TV that a county in Mississippi has confirmed at least 50 people dead in that county.

That number is now at 55.

www.wkrg.com has an internet feed and they are reporting a lot of coverage...all horribly sad but if you want info for the Mobile/Mississippi area, it would be a good link.

(User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:41 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Tomorrow is going to be one of those dreadful days where the media and everyone else will wake up to more of what happened. It's close to Camille level damage, but more spread out along that part of the coast, I think.

I hope I'm wrong. Katrina is why I hate hurricanes.

you said a mouthful...

unfortunately, i got a song runnin' thru my head right now...and i'm still in shock...it's by bto...and it pertains to what the morning light will reveal to us all...

(Weather Hobbyist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:43 PM

Re: Piecing New Orleans Together

Just finished watching WKRG Mobile. 50 dead in Harrison County, most at an apartment complex in Biloxi. They reaired the segment about the man who lost his wife. Gut wrenching. Home destroyed, wife washed away, nowhere to go with the kids. Say a prayer for all those folks, say a long hard prayer.

WiscoWx

(Registered User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:44 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

The report of 50 some fatalities is from Harrison County, which is where Gulfport is. Given the kind of surge Jim Cantore reported from Gulfport, we know that conditions were very extreme there. I haven't seen any reports from the next country west, Hancock, which includes Waveland and Bay St. Louis. It's more lightly populated, but since Katrina made her final landfall around the mouth of the Pearl River I'd say from that point to Biloxi was the zone most severely impacted.

The terrible reality is that as search and recovery continues through the night and into daylight tomorrow, the toll will surely rise. It is sobering to consider how much greater a loss of life would have come to pass had Katrina not weakened prior to landfall or if a more densely populated area like New Orleans had received the kind of hit that Bay St. Louis, Pass Christian, and Gulfport did.

KATFIVE

(Weather Watcher)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:47 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I'm sure many of you have been watching CNN, FOX etc. The scope of the disaster is more than I imagined. As of early afternoon, I thought perhaps that we had dodged a bullet. Now it seems that we have a catastrophic situation in some locals, and the extent of the damage is only slowly coming to light. It scares me that we don't hear much about some areas (grand isle, st. louis bay, and other areas). It seems the potential for major loss of life is much greater than any US-landing hurricane in my experience. The only small grace is it could have been much much worse, but that is no solace, for the good people of LA, MS, AL and FL.....

(Verified CFHC User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:49 PM

Re: Piecing New Orleans Together

Quote:

Just finished watching WKRG Mobile. 50 dead in Harrison County, most at an apartment complex in Biloxi. They reaired the segment about the man who lost his wife. Gut wrenching. Home destroyed, wife washed away, nowhere to go with the kids. Say a prayer for all those folks, say a long hard prayer.

That's the one...It is almost impossible to watch. I sat here and cried while watching that poor man talk about his wife and what happened.

It will only get worse!

garrison

(Verified CFHC User)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:55 PM

Re: Piecing New Orleans Together

Excellent summation of the NO area, I dont know whether you folks have had an opportunity to listen to the interview of Jeanne Meserve who went out into one of the flooded areas, but it apparent that she was witness to many awlful thngs. As we sit here now, it appears that the water levels in some, if not many areas of NO are continuing to go up.

Folks this is going to be an epic catastrophy just for NO, thet is going to get worse in the coming days. We havent even heard yet from anywhere near LA landfall was made near the mouth of the Mississippi. From Slidell to Gulfport, we know very little, and I gotta say based on that being the epicenter, I fear many souls have lost their lives today, much more than the 50 number we have recently heard.

WeatherNLU

(Meteorologist)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:56 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I wanted to quickly check in with everyone.....me and the family are safe, we are in northern MS. Reports from people who stayed behind is that basically the entire parish I live in (St. Bernard) is under water. I have heard that there is a minimum of 7 feet everywhere and that some places have as much as 15 feet of water.....i.e. it's way past the roofs. So, here I sit, far from home with nothing left and with the knowledge that it may be weeks before I get to see the ruins that used to be my home. I have no idea how to pay for a hotel room, food, bills, etc. for weeks with no job for me or my wife to go home to from what I understand. Really, it's almost surreal at this moment in time, I have no idea what's going to happen or what to expect. I know some of you went through the same thing over there in FL last year......maybe you can help me see the light in the tunnel, because right now it's pretty bleak.

Of course, me and my family have our lives, unlike many others tonight.

(Storm Tracker)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:57 PM

Re: Piecing New Orleans Together

Read this a little bit ago.......it's a quote i selected and the link to the entire story.

"Let me tell you something folks: I've been out there. It's complete devastation," said Gulfport, Miss., Fire Chief Pat Sullivan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/29/national/main802131.shtml

(Weather Guru)

Mon Aug 29 2005 11:57 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Unfortunately come morning I fear we will all be seeing the devastation caused by Katrina. Hopefully all will take heed and not forget that we have to take every precaution necessary if we are threatened never becoming complacent and thinking we have been lucky for so long and we will not be a victim.

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:00 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

"me and the family are safe"

For right now, one of the happier postings I've seen. God bless you and yours.

(Admin)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:09 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Mark Sudduth's report for hurricanelive.net / hurricanetrack

http://www.hurricanelivenet.com/aftermath.wmv

Ugh.

The church that is in Mark's video is at
2120 14th Street, gulfport, ms

if you want to use the google map or earth, etc to look it up as a reference.

WiscoWx

(Registered User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:12 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

I wanted to quickly check in with everyone.....me and the family are safe, we are in northern MS. Reports from people who stayed behind is that basically the entire parish I live in (St. Bernard) is under water. I have heard that there is a minimum of 7 feet everywhere and that some places have as much as 15 feet of water.....i.e. it's way past the roofs. So, here I sit, far from home with nothing left and with the knowledge that it may be weeks before I get to see the ruins that used to be my home. I have no idea how to pay for a hotel room, food, bills, etc. for weeks with no job for me or my wife to go home to from what I understand. Really, it's almost surreal at this moment in time, I have no idea what's going to happen or what to expect. I know some of you went through the same thing over there in FL last year......maybe you can help me see the light in the tunnel, because right now it's pretty bleak.

Of course, me and my family have our lives, unlike many others tonight.

A really tough situation. There are folks on this board who have been down this road before (I haven't), who will be able to offer you some good advice based on experience. My understanding is that evacuees are eligible for per diems for lodging based on the President's early declaration on Saturday. Contacting the Red Cross or FEMA is probably where to start. I do know that the Red Cross has an online booklet of the financial aspects of disaster recovery at Disaster Recovery, A guide to financial issues

Good luck to you and your family. Hopefully, you will get some useful suggestions from people on the board who have a better background that I do.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:16 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I heard a report a little bit ago (second hand) that water is still seeping into New Orleans. According to this person on CNN about a half hour ago, the reporter said that there is at least 6 inches of new water that was not there before. If this is indeed indicative of unknown breeches in the levee... it goes without saying that we could be in deep trouble. I am sorry to be so speculative, I wish I had more concrete info, but I guess this is truly the nature of the day. If there are people still awaiting rescue, each inch is important. I hope the speculation that we were spared was not too soon. I fear it is.

Storm Hunter

(Veteran Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:16 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

GULFPORT, Miss. (AP) -- An emergency official has confirmed that there have been at least 50 hurricane-related deaths in Mississippi's Harrison County.

Katrina blamed for at least 55 deaths
NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- Announcing itself with shrieking, 145-mph winds, Hurricane Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast just outside New Orleans today (Monday), submerging entire neighborhoods up to their roofs, swamping Mississippi's beachfront casinos and killing at least 55 people.
Jim Pollard, spokesman for the Harrison County emergency operations center, says 50 people were killed by Katrina in his county, with the bulk of the deaths at an apartment complex in Biloxi. Three other people were killed by falling trees in Mississippi and two died in a traffic accident in Alabama.
An untold number of other people were feared dead in flooded neighborhoods in Louisiana and Mississippi, many of which could not be reached by rescuers because of high water.

Storm Hunter

(Veteran Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:38 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

the dry air that helped weaken her is also causing damage.

SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT...CORRECTED FOR EXPIRATION TIME
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BIRMINGHAM AL
1132 PM CDT MON AUG 29 2005

AUTAUGA-BIBB-BLOUNT-CHILTON-COOSA-DALLAS-ELMORE-ETOWAH-FAYETTE-
GREENE-HALE-JEFFERSON-LAMAR-LOWNDES-MARENGO-MARION-MONTGOMERY-PERRY-
PICKENS-SHELBY-ST CLAIR-SUMTER-TALLADEGA-TUSCALOOSA-WALKER-WINSTON-
1132 PM CDT MON AUG 29 2005
...DAMAGING WINDS REMAIN POSSIBLE DUE TO DRY AIR FILTERING IN ON THE
BACKSIDE OF TROPICAL STORM KATRINA FOR MUCH OF CENTRAL ALABAMA...
AS TROPICAL STORM KATRINA MOVES AWAY FROM THE AREA... DRY...RAIN FREE
AIR WILL RAPIDLY RUSH TO THE SURFACE AND PRODUCE WIND GUSTS TO 65 MPH
THROUGH THROUGH AT LEAST 130 PM FOR MUCH OF CENTRAL ALABAMA.
ADDITIONAL TREE AND POWER LINE DAMAGE IS HIGHLY LIKELY. THIS IS STILL
AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS SITUATION! PLEASE DO NOT VENTURE OUT TO SIGHT
SEE...LET THE EMERGENCY RESPONDERS DO THEIR JOBS. LIVES ARE AT STAKE.
USE EXTREME CAUTION IF TRAVEL IS NECESSARY.
.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:48 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

WeatherNLU: I have emailed you the FEMA disaster relief help guidebook in PDF format because I was unable to attach it to a post (apparently PDF files aren't accepted). There's a text version at http://www.fema.gov/txt/about/process/help_after_disaster_english.txt . Wish I could do more. I hope your situation is not as bad as you fear but FEMA should provide significant help if it is. I just hope they don't take too long to get to work and start helping people.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:50 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

"By 6 p.m. on Monday, looters had shifted to heavy lifting. Young men exited the Coleman�s clothing store on Earhart Boulevard, struggling under the weight of fully laden cardboard boxes and plastic bags.
When flashing lights appeared in the distance, a man in an orange jersey shouted �Police!,� and dropped his box in Earhart�s lake-bound lane. He splashed across the opposite lane, tripped and fell in knee-deep water, then ran toward the B.W. Cooper housing development.
As the sun set, four young women slipped out of the Magnolia Discount convenience store on South Carrollton Avenue and loaded pilfered boxes into a waiting car. One woman waved at approaching vehicles." -- From Clark's New Orleans Blog Update site earlier.

From the sounds looks like increased looting. Same problem as after Andrew. Scum of the earth. There is no lower form of a human being than a looter. Earlier Gov. Barbour of MS said that he would treat looters "ruthlessly." I hope they kill them all... painfully.

Also looks like the I-10 linking St. Tammany and Orleans parishes over Lake Pontchartrain is pretty severely damaged. I'm not versed enough in New Orleans geography to know if this is the main bridge or not, but regardless it will cause a lot of headaches and make it nearly impossible for folks to get back.

For those of you who missed Clark's excellent post earlier, this is the link I got these stories from.
Click Here for the Stories .

(Meteorologist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:50 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Shawn, I sent you a PM with more, but hang in there. Things may look bad now, but life does go on -- we will rebuild, we will get through this. The key part is that you all are safe, as you mention, just keep the faith.

(Meteorologist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:57 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

BRM, thanks for the additional reference to the site; I went back there and checked and there is good news for the west side of the city (near Kenner and the airport) and Old Metairie (which, if I'm not mistaken, is where Steve calls home). From what it sounds like, the flooding there is not bad enough to keep the pumps from running and they may be able to clear things out in the not too distant future.

Not so good news, though, for those outside the levee system or for that I-10 bridge. I guess it shouldn't be surprising to hear that similar damage to the Escambia Bay bridge during Ivan was realized with that bridge, but having that bridge down (and possibly the Ponchartrain causeway across the lake as well) really limits the car traffic into the region for quite some time. I can only hope that daybreak brings better news for the residents of the Gulf coast, but in some areas it is only going to get worse before it gets better.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:57 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

80% of the city underwater.

http://www.wwltv.com/

I'd hate to see "worst case." Calls of avoiding the "Big One" definitely seem premature now.

Clark, do you have any idea why the business district is one of the few areas NOT under water? From the sounds of it, this may be just about the ONLY area that was spared?! I am flummoxed.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:01 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Does this help with the geography?

(Meteorologist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:02 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

That is what I understand, that the CBD is the only area largely unaffected by surge/flooding. The levee system largely held across much of the area, but it wasn't enough to keep the surge from topping it and leading to flood waters rising 3-4' in many parts of the city. At that point, it becomes a matter of elevation. Many homes that I'm seeing (outside of east of town) look like they have the standard slanted driveways & elevation that you see across much of Florida & the US; this is leading to the roads being full of water, but the actual houses themselves being spared most water damage. I imagine this is not the case everywhere, but some people may have been spared by being just a few feet higher than somewhere else.

The CBD is about 3-7' above sea level, from what I understand and from what I can tell using Google Earth; in a city where the average elevation is about 6' below sea level and where flood waters rose, on average, 4-6'...you can see that much of the system did its job and the center of the city was spared the worst. I should qualify the statements made earlier to say that the rises of 8-15' inside the city are generally in the most low-lying areas; to the east of the city, those are true figures, but inside the city those generally apply only to the lowest of elevations (those 10' below sea level and lower).

Obviously, that's no consolation to areas just outside the city, as that is where the water is going to pile up, but hopefully those areas can start to recover as soon as possible as well.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:09 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Big Red: New Orleans may be a bowl but it is a bowl with lumps and bumps in the bottom. The CBD (what they call the Central Business District locally) is next to the French Quarter which is about the highest land around--a bump. If you think about it, that makes sense: the original settlers would have picked the highest ground on which to establish their settlement. They didn't have pumps and levees at first. I think over 300 years, the whole area has subsided somewhat and it is now all below sea level, but the French Quarter/CBD are still the highest land in town.

ShanaTX

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:24 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Re the I-10 bridges... I've been to NO several times and was just there a few months ago. I know the highways and bodies of water, but heck if I know Parish boundaries!

So I looked it up. Here's the Orleans Parish, top right hand is St Tammany Parish. So that bridge is the one that is on the east side of town.

Orleans Parish

This and Google Maps should give y'all a better idea of what's where.

Oh http://www.enlou.com/no/no-neighborhoods_map.htm is a neighborhood map. Kinda weird to use.

eta ... The Mayor said it was the Twin Spans - which I think is not I-10 but the Crescent City Connection - the other bridge of the lake.

The Hi Rise - which I'm pretty sure is a bridge on I-10 has been hit by a barge and has to be checked for integrity

Storm Hunter

(Veteran Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:26 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

some amazing video is out there.....and if you are in the going to be in the gulfport area...keep an eye out for these little black boxes.

Now to the part about a bounty:

Mike and I were going to go to Waveland last night to set up two of our instrument/video units but did not have time due to technical issues. We instead set up all three units in and around downtown Gulfport. All three units worked well internally and recorded what has to be extraordinary video and data. But here is the problem. I could not find the units. They are called StormCases and I will post a video of what they look like later. I am offering $500.00 for the return of these Storm Cases to me with the contents inside. I will be able to access the data and video- but need the units to do so. This could really help us to understand what exactly happened as Katrina made landfall. So, if you live in Gulfport or surrounding areas or will be heading there to assist in clean-up, I am offering you $500.00 for each Storm Case that you locate with the contents inside. These are black, water tight boxes that are virtually crush-proof. So they should be safe somewhere- but among all of the debris, as you will see in the video below, we could not find them. I placed one out on Urie Pier and strapped it to a light pole near the building that used to be there. I assume that this case is lost forever. However, the other two cases should be somewhere in Gulfport. The second case was strapped to a light pole on Hwy 49 about four blocks north of Hwy 90. It is likely in the pile of debris along that main street. This is the most important unit since it will have seen the surge coming up the highway. The third case was set up at the First Baptist Church along Hwy 90- facing the Gulf. The church is now almost completely gone- but the case might be among the rubble and will yield clues as to how fast the surge came in. If someone out there finds one, email me and I'll arrange to get it back. Once I verify the contents are good- I'll send the reward money. This could make for an incredible treasure hunt- as finding the cases will mean possibly finding some answers as to how it could have been so bad. Again, I will post a video clip of what the cases look like tomorrow morning. I will have more here on Katrina and the rest of the tropics tomorrow morning as well.

http://www.hurricanetrack.com/

(Admin)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:53 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

AP hasn't picked up on Mayor Nagin's statements in that video yet, they sure paint a different picture than what they have been saying. Twin Span destroyed is major. Boats run aground, and I think I heard mention of an oil tanker run aground and leaking. Total Levee failure in the 9th ward. 80% flooding, etc. I'm not sure why.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:54 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I just saw a replay on CNN of an interview with reporter Jeanne Meserve in New Orleans done about 2 hours ago. This interview was one of the most chilling things I have ever heard/seen. Ms. Meserve's voice was full of emotion and it was obvious she'd been through a lot. For those who have not seen this interview, here are a few things that she said. She described seeing a live dog with live power lines wrapped around it continuously electrocuting the still living animal, she described hearing the cries of people stuck in their attics, but police were unable to help because conditions were to hazardous, she said that there were bodies floating, she described hearing the yelps of trapped dogs, highway on ramps are now boat ramps, unfortunately this was occuring in a poorer neighborhod where she was fearful people were unable to evacuate do to financial reasons or otherwise, she described seeing a woman with her leg severed off, and finally she said that she had the impression that when she returned to New Orleans water was about 6 inches higher than when she left.

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:02 AM

Jefferson Parish Lockout

They just issued a Lock Out for Jefferson Parish.

This means that no one will be allowed to enter Jefferson Parish until the end of the Lock Out which they stated was September 5th.

So, if you need to get anywhere in Jefferson Parish, you won't be able to until at least September 5th.

Edited to add what cities are included in Jefferson Parish:

Grand Isle
Gretna
Harahan
Harvey
Jean Lafitte
Jefferson
Kenner
Metairie
Terrytown
Westwego

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:07 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

The thing that gets to me is so many lost life because they would not leave.In Florida i know the same would happen also im sure but to hear now on TV about 2-3k maybe dead.All loss of life that could have been averted if people would take these things serious.We get on here and disagree about a path of a storm but NONE on here ever say stay in your home it will be ok.

We all know too well when the cone is on you get out.I hope this serves to tell people that nature is not to be messed with.This storm did not come out of the blue they should have got all those people out ahead of time but i know you cant force them all but it is so sad to see scores of death because people would not listen.

Reminds me of another story but not for this thread.

My sorrow goes out to those who lost family members.And even the pets so sad.

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:12 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

The thing that gets to me is so many lost life because tehy would not leave.In Florida i know the same would happen also im sure but to hear now on TV about 2-3k maybe dead.All loss of life that could have been averted if people would take these things serious.We get on here and disagree about a path of a storm but NONE on here ever say stay in your home it will be ok.

We all know too well when the cone is on you get out.I hope this serves to tell people that nature is not to be messed with.This storm did not come out of the blue they should have got all those people out ahead of time but i know you cant force them all but it is so sad to see scores of death because people would not listen.

Reminds me of another story but not for this thread.

My sorrow goes out to those who lost family members.

One thing that I have a problem with is this.
The media, even though they did some wonderful coverage, at times said things they should not have said.
At one point, they announced that certain areas like the Alabama Coast was not even in the cone anymore...
You have to wonder if people around Mobile, Gulf Shores, Dauphin Island, etc saw that and thought, well, I'm not in the cone so I don't have to leave.

Surely they realized they would get bad weather, even if the hurricane did not make that slight turn.
You just never know what people are thinking. Maybe the "It won't happen to me" attitude!

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:14 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I don't think they were ever out of the cone all of that area was in the cone as far as the NHC track was concered.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:19 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Mike, that levee breach with floodwaters rising is bad news. With all of the facts out there now, I am unsure why the news is not painting the true picture. It's not like this is internet conjecture either, its comments from the MAYOR of New Orleans. Scary.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:31 AM

OH NO

OH NO.

Just confirmed on CNN. 2 block long levee breach unable to hold back Lk Ponch. Water rising an inch every 5 minutes. almost to 2nd story of Tulane Medical Center. WHITECAPS ON CANAL STREET. Tulane Medical Center may have to evacuate 1000 patients by air. Another hospital in process of evacuation by air. CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT NOW IN JEOPARDY.

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:34 AM

Re: OH NO

Did the lady not say that it was the second floor they had to evac from what i heard it was the second floor only.
Never heard her say 1000 just the second floor

And the other hospital had 90 they had to air vac

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:35 AM

Re: OH NO

I don't believe it. Barring a miracle stop... I can't imagine.
THIS MAY BE OUR WORST CASE SCENARIO.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:36 AM

Re: OH NO

She said they would have to start evacuating because the generators are on the second floor. NOT JUST SECOND FLOOR. possible evacuation of entire hospital. If this breech is not fixed perhaps the water pressure will cause more breeches? and then...

Without generators hospital loses power and people on ventilators will die.

I hope I can come back on in 2 hours and realize I was being hysterical. I fear not.

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:37 AM

Re: OH NO

But she never said 1k people the only number she stated was the 90 from the other hospital.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:39 AM

Re: OH NO

She said there were 1000 people in the hospital. Most are serious cases, so they need electricity. While perhaps all 1k may not have to evacuate, many will. Helicopter is the only way out she said. Trucks/ambulances/cars cannot reach hospital.

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:40 AM

Re: OH NO

yah she said none could be taken out by boat.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:41 AM

Re: OH NO

Maybe it's not as bad as I originally thought. I hope not. But from the interview (VP of the Tulane Medical Center) she sounded deadly serious.

Why isn't this on tv right now? Mods, I realize I've broken just about every rule the past few minutes, but it is my impression from this interview that the medical center is in dire straits. I KNOW this isn't incorrect info, the VP on Tulane Medical Center was on CNN saying waters were rising "faster than you can imagine." 1 inch every 5 mins. They had no flooding during the storm. This is all due to the breach. If I am wrong, please someone correct me.

Ralph, I really did just see that, right?? Did you see the interview too?

Terra

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:48 AM

Re: OH NO

My mom just woke me up after seeing this on CNN.... I don't understand why the levvee at the 17th street canal broke now, not earlier, but yes, this is terrible.

It's not just the hospital that's in danger here... it's the whole CBD.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:49 AM

Re: OH NO

Okay I've been looking on other boards. Other people saw this too. I don't know why it's not on tv or the major sites yet. From another board I found this info.

That hospital is two blocks west of Canal Street, which borders the western side of the French Quarter and is five blocks east of the Superdome.

Guys if they can't fix this, things could get much, much worse.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:50 AM

Re: OH NO

Thank you Terra. This is CATASTROPHIC. This is occuring at night too, so people could be asleep with no way of knowing.

Why is this NOT on tv? This is outrageous

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:57 AM

Re: OH NO

It is that 1 area which is buildings and the people that it is affecting is the ones in the hospital you heard it right but trust me they know about it there im sure.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:59 AM

Re: OH NO

Here is the only other info I can find. It's the first entry.
Flooding
The CBD appears to be in grave danger.

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:59 AM

Re: OH NO

Going to bed just hope they get those people air vaced out if they need to but they were told by the police so the proper people im sure know about it.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:02 AM

Re: OH NO

I'm not a big blame the media guy. I think they usually do a pretty decent job. But they have blown this completely. New Orleans dodged nothing. Especially with this latest breach. I can't believe they are not showing this.

I guess I better go to bed too Ralph.

Thousands will die from this breach. Flooding at night while people sleep and have been told the worst is over. Catostrophic.

To top it off the media is fiddling while New Orleans is drowning. "Dewe Defeats Truman." The worst case really looks to finally becoming true.

(Admin)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:10 AM

Re: OH NO

This isn't over yet. Relaxing rules for info like this.

Edit: Tulane Hospital, not university

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:15 AM

Re: OH NO

From cnn.com a minute ago:

A levee holding back water sustains a two-block wide breach in New Orleans. Details soon.

mojorox

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:15 AM

Re: OH NO

I saw it too. The mayor mentioned it but the interview with Tulane showed that there may be big trouble if the water is rising this fast. If they have patients on ventilators they have to have electricity unless they have a large staff of people in there to bag them manually. I hope what I am fearing does not come to pass. I have a real bad feeling about this.
On edit
I emailed cnn as a citizen journalist and directed them to the mayor of NO's interview. I don't know if anyone will read the email but dang.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:26 AM

Re: OH NO

Orig time of cnn post was 2:58amEDT. nothing more since but

CNN will repeat the interview with the woman (?) in a minute..........

(Moderator)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:30 AM

Re: OH NO thoughts

I think this is a seperate levee breach... I might be wrong, but the way the blog sounded, that breach has been common knowledge since laste this morning. I'm watching CNN for more details...

Ok, I think CNN is doing the right thing... They are trying to keep people informed without inciting fear.... I haven't seen any comfirmation of a serious breach yet, but I agree, it's night time, it's dark, and it's hard debate, which is the right call... I'm more suprised that FOX and CNBC aren't continuing live coverage. But that's just my own thoughts.

-Mark

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:35 AM

Re: OH NO

1" every 5 minutes on now on cnn

charlottefl

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:38 AM

Re: OH NO

I don't know when the breach occured, but the mayor of NO described the breach as severe, and it must be if the water is rising 1" every 5 minutes. The woman at the hospital said even with the pumps running they would not be able to compete with lake ponchotrain.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:40 AM

Re: OH NO

THAT AMOUNTS TO 1 FOOT/HOUR....

The bowl that NO sits in would fill in a day if no mitigation is possible.

superfly

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:40 AM

Re: OH NO

The breach occured along this bridge (highlighted in yellow) on the eastern side of the 17th street canal. This is the northwest corner of Orleans Parish.

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/7070/nola5kh.jpg

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:42 AM

Re: OH NO

They just reran the interview. Army Corp of Engineers is meeting right now. Statement within the hour expected.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:45 AM

Re: OH NO

Quote:

But she never said 1k people the only number she stated was the 90 from the other hospital.

It is now about 2:40 AM in New Orleans. I'm not sure when this was first broadcast but I just heard the Tulane VP. She clearly said the water was rising an inch every 5 minutes, the hospital was now surrounded by 6 ft of water, there were 1000 people in the hospital and they were considering the evacuation of all of them. I am attaching a map of the location of Tulane Medical Center. For anyone familiar with New Orleans, this is frightening because this facility is not only very near the superdome but also the heart of New Olreans including the French Quarter and CBD.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:48 AM

Re: OH NO

A new thread should be started with the subject being the possible breech in the levee. I think...

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:50 AM

Re: OH NO

This is now officially the realization of worst nightmare. The world is going to be shocked.

What a horrible horrible night.

God help the people in the Superdome.

(Moderator)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:16 AM

Re: OH NO

sorry for a 1 line post, but yeah, 200 foot breach at 17th street and canal. Do they even have the resources at hand to stop something like that?

-Mark

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:37 AM

Re: OH NO *DELETED*

Post deleted by the ongoing active Atlantic multi-decadal signal

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:43 AM

Re: OH NO

From NO Times Picayune:
Meantime, five miles to the west, engineers worked to close a breach along the New Orleans side of the 17th Street Canal.

Huge drainage pumps ordinarily can drive millions of gallons of rainwater uphill through the canal, as it takes water from the low-lying city into Lake Pontchartrain. But the breach turned the canal into a major threat. Lake water flowed back through the breach, hemorrhaging into Lakeview and beyond.

The water had risen knee-deep during the storm, but despite the clearing skies, it had continued to rise one brick every 20 minutes, according to Kyle, continuing its ascent well into the night.

�We were good until the Canal busted,� said Sontag. �First there was water on the street, then the sidewalk, then water in the house.�

Officials of the Army Corps of Engineers have contingencies for levee breaches such as the one that happened Monday, but it will take time and effort to get the heavy equipment into place to make the repair. Breach repair is part of the Corps� planning for recovery from catastrophic storms, but nobody Monday was able to say how long it would take to plug the hole, or how much water would get through it before that happened.

Glenos

(Registered User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 06:15 AM

Re: OH NO

Hi folks,can anybody help please? I need some information on how Katrina is going to hit Nashville as my girlfriend who is disabled and living alone lives there.I am in England at present.I read all the news and weather sites but i honestly cant make head nor tail of whats really going to happen.Her freinds are in contact with her but if the lines go down then we are all in the dark(!) Thankyou for your assistance. Glenos

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 06:52 AM

Re: OH NO

NO Mayor Nagin, per CNN:

"We probably have 80 percent of our city underwater. With some sections of our city, the water is as deep as 20 feet."

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 07:50 AM

Re: OH NO

Quote:

I need some information on how Katrina is going to hit Nashville

I'm in Nashville; continuous moderate to heavy rain, flash flood warnings; no severe winds or storms currently. PM me if you need more info.

WhitherWeather

DeLandT

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 08:11 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Here is some information I received from Cingular Wireless concerning the damage to their infrastructure in the LA/MS/AL Area:

Subject: SIR level 1E Initial Hurricane Katrina Cell Site V11539

Location: SouthEast - Eng ;Ala /MS / LA
Elements: Cell Sites
Start Time: 08-29-2005 12:45 Eastern
GSM And TDMA Voice And Data Customers Cannot Make or Receive Call From Mobile
ETTR: unknown

Location: SouthEast - Eng ;Ala /MS / LA
Elements: South Region Cell Sites Start Time: 08-29-2005 12:45 Eastern GSM And TDMA Voice And Data Customers Cannot Make or Receive Call From Mobile
ETTR: unknown

Currently there are a 834 GSM and 607 TDMA sites down in Alabama,Mississippi, Louisiana for a total of 1450 sites down as a result of Hurricane Katrina.

The Breakdown for Orange and Blue locations are as follows.

Louisiana
Currently there are 458 out of 1159 locations affected in New Orleans

The breakdown for New Orleans is as follows
199 Orange Locations 214 GSM and 199 TDMA
259 Blue Locations 259 GSM and 139 TDMA

Mississippi
Currently there are 287 out of 760 locations affected in Mississippi

The breakdown for Jackson is as follows
152 Orange Locations 152 GSM and 67 TDMA
135 Blue Locations 52 GSM and 135 TDMA

Alabama
Currently there are 157 out of 1165 locations affected in Alabama

The breakdown for Mobile is as follows
113 Orange Locations 113 GSM and 23 TDMA
44 Blue Locations 44 GSM and 42 TDMA

All visibility to the New Orleans Blue TDMA and GSM MSCs has been lost.
All visibility to the New Orleans Orange TDMA MSC has been lost. All
visibility to the Lafayette Orange TDMA MSC has been lost. All
visibility to the Jackson Orange TDMA and GSM MSC has been lost.

The Mobile Orange MSC is Currently running on generator.

All Intrado links to Blue MSCs in Louisiana are down, Phase II calls are
defaulting to Phase I.

Alabama, Mississippi, New Orleans Hurricane Katrina Plan

GENERATORS
Mobile 64 onhand
Mobile 75 in route from FLA
Lafayette 15 onhand
Lafayette 40 in route from GA
Jackson 25 in route from GA
Birmingham 12 on hand
NW Floridia 16 on hand

An additional 150 Generators in Route

Total on hand or in route 397

FUEL
Diesel
Mobile 11,500 G diesel on hand
Lafayette 4,000 G diesel on hand
Total onhand 5,500 G
Additional diesel 126,000 G available
12,000 G inbound
Total 153,000 G available

Unleaded
Mobile 10,300 G unleaded on hand
4,000 G inbound
Total 10,800 G Available

We have deployment and fuel crews staged in both Mobile and Lafayette.
We also have tower crews on standby, as well as line and antenna
material.

OPERATIONS

Operations will run initial dispatch of resources out of Mobile. After
the storm, they will assess damages and determine the best place from
which to stage recovery efforts. If Baton Rouge is unaffected, the Ops
Manager there (Dell Oliver) will go to New Orleans to assist. After
setting up the initial dispatch in Mobile, Kenny Browning will also go
to New Orleans. Charlie Young will be in Mobile.

Gulf coast site recovery will be supported out of Mobile. Central MS
site recovery will be supported out of Central and North Alabama.

Customers affected: unknown
Start time: 08-29-2005 05:00 Eastern
Teams engaged: SRNOC, Local Ops, Power and Telco companies
Estimated time to repair: unknown
Next update: 10:00 am EST

BTW Orange and Blue refer to Cingular and AT&T.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 08:42 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Clark,

A few questions.

1. How does a hurricane know it is time to re-place an eye-wall. And what causes that to happen?

2. Why does the storm intensify rather rapidily after it completes the replacement as shown with Katrina?

3. If there was a wind fiels of over 100 miles of hurricane winds from the eye, then why isn't the left side just as strong as the right fron quadrant?

I will go on record to say this, that Katrina will undoubtedly be the most destructive hurricane on record as to damage, strenth, insurance claims, and sadly causualties. To see a storm on radar and satalite view of sustained winds well over 175MPH is beyond belief. Her name will never be used again, and hope that our season is over now. Unfortunately, we have till 30 NOV.

(User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 08:45 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

force,

check out this link. it should answer most of your questions...

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 08:46 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

finding the cases will mean possibly finding some answers as to how it could have been so bad.

We already know how it could have been so bad. We were one of the few groups to know. While incandescent blips migrated on the radar, we knew what was happening over that coastline.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 08:59 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

That's a good point that you make. I wonder how many countries are going to come calling to the United States to provide assistance. Just wait and you will find out. Probally no one. And that's SAD.!!! These people are and will be affected for the rest o0f their lives. And it makes me sick to think that when a disaster happens around the world, the US is the first to respond, but when it comes to our own disasters, where are the other countries coming to the aid of the US.

trinibaje

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:07 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

That's a good point that you make. I wonder how many countries are going to come calling to the United States to provide assistance. Just wait and you will find out. Probally no one. And that's SAD.!!! These people are and will be affected for the rest o0f their lives. And it makes me sick to think that when a disaster happens around the world, the US is the first to respond, but when it comes to our own disasters, where are the other countries coming to the aid of the US.

Being the richest country in the world, that is where the U.S. finds itself. We can sit here and argue history etc, but that is not what is important now. What is important anyone helping the people who are in danger of losing their lives right now. Material things can and will be replaced, however people lives are in danger.

And to think September is still to come

bobbutts

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:21 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Yeah this is getting ugly with the additional flooding. Looking at 1000's of houses and thinking about the individuals inside or even evactuated from each of them and the havoc this has wreaked. Going to take a long time to get this cleaned up and things won't be the same again. The amazing thing is that this in not nearly as bad as it could have been.. The water was forecast to be much deeper and widespread and would have been with a direct hit. If you look at the pictures too you can see very little wind damage. The images in my head that kept me up all night thinking about the worst case were cat 4-5 wind damage at the same time as 30' flooding (2 story houses totally underwater with people inside), superdome collapse,. A large % of buildings blowing apart, giant debris flying around. Basically 0 chance of survival for everyone who stayed.

This is terrible and sickening to watch, but I really believe this was not the worst case. They are going in and saving people from flooded houses now. If this had been the worst case nearly all of them would be dead. It doesn't do any service to claim it was the worst case. A direct hit would have and a future one still would be much worse. People should know that since it could be life or death next time around. I suspect a direct hit from a cat 1 through 3 which many people will now dismiss after going through "The Big One" would cause this level of physical damage or greater in the city with the difference being fewer evacuees and more death.

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:24 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Mark Sudduth's report for hurricanelive.net / hurricanetrack

http://www.hurricanelivenet.com/aftermath.wmv

The church that is in Mark's video is at
2120 14th Street, gulfport, ms

1) Mike is is your responsibility to make sure the person who made that video gets it out on all the networks.

2) I already contacted one of the mets, now this is a msg for everyone else on the board.

WE have to do something.

We are one of the few groups in the US who right now have the awful knowledge of what happened. Not too many people in the US right now have the knowledge that a huge wall of water, certainly higher than 40 feet along many locations, accompanied by hours of intense winds over 100mph, obliterated miles and miles of coastline, indunating it with water for 24 hours, Along the entire northern Gulf Coast, from Slidell, which almost certainly was leveled from wind, to all coastal communities along the MS Gulf Coast, including Waveland, Bay St. Louis, Pass Christian, Long Beach, Mississippi City, Gulfport, Biloxi, Ocean Springs, Gautier, Pascagoula, Moss Point, Bayou La Batre, Grand Bay, and Mobile AL.

The floodwaters have receeded, so no one will be able to understand and comprehend that this is what happened.

With our knowledge comes responsibility. The US media of ABC, CBS, and NBC, last night convinced the nation that the hurricane was an issue of a few feet of flooding in the French Quarter, some people on rooftops of a few flooded houses, and (the biggest news), part of the roof came off the superdome, and oh by the way, your gas is going to get even more expensive.

Now that the catastrophic conditions in NO are getting better known, and are getting worse due to additional levee breaks, the horrible news about the entire Gulf Coast is in danger of not getting out to the public in a timely way, especially the scope of this disaster, which is almost too much for us to wrap our minds around.

For everyone of you out there on the board, I want you to DO SOMETHING TODAY to mobilize whatever and whoever you have access to, and to use words like "Bangladesh-like flood" and "tsunami" to provide a perspective. If what you have is your church, then start there and get your church in touch with the head administrative staff in the country, and get something going to help those on the coast.

The second thing is to use whatever connections you have to get it in the media, in whatever way you can, even if it is your local media, but get the news out there to the media.

The worst possible thing that we could do now is just sit and chat among ourselves as this information comes in.

We can't afford to sit here after reading a post about how a reporter took a video of what was supposed to be an entire bay with many communities on either side of it, miles of trees and homes and businesses and shorefront (I'm talking about Bay St. Louis), and instead saw the exit off of I-10 tail off into a huge lake. I want you to go to mapquest and look at what was supposed to be there. Don't just sit there and type in a response message: wow. Knowledge is power and so go use your knowledge to get the news of this disaster out to everyone else in the US.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:30 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I was just looking at an article in hurricane history forum and surprised to find a link LIPhil had about what would happen if a major hurricane hit NO that was in May and someone posted about how lucky they had been, and now it is reality. Interesting article you might want to read

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:38 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

That gentleman who wrote that article in May 2005, was on Larry King Live last night. A truly amazing article. Which in fact came true on Monday, regardless where the eye came ashore.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:43 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I was up all night watching the news coverage and they are not taking this hurricane lightly. I think they are doing a decent job trying to get the message out to everyone and I think all of America is aware of what the Gulf Coast is up against. My neighbor left last night with his personal boat to go help with rescue.I think we will see a country unite and embrace each other and help the victims of this horrible disaster. Just my 2 cents

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:43 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

As I posted an earlier post, this is of historic proportions, the humanity of all despartely in need of HELP NOW. As I was saying, where are the reports from other nations willing to come and assist those in need right now. When the Tsunami hit, the US was the first to respond with aid. Now, the gilf coast and millions of people are now in dire straits. Has anyone seen the video of a street that was flooded in NO, when they pan out in the video, the street sign with water upto it;s label read: HUMANITY St. How ironic.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:44 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Exactly while I was reading it I got chills. Very interesting article though

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:49 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

My thought is --- If every American gave what they could even if it was only one dollar it would be a start. Your Big Companies can certainly afford to help, yesterday I know of 3 that donated large sums of money. Office Depot, Wal-Mart, and T-Mobile. Lets see if the others will meet the challenge Office Depot made.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:51 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Debbie if your neighbor left for New Orleans from FL, he will never get there, at least not today. I 10 is still closed in Pensacola, creating a lengthy detour, and nobody is getting into Mississippi (including reesidents) at the AL line. I-10 is not really passable in MS. But I did see this morning hundreds of Military vehicle (presumably national guard) moving west. May I make a suggestion if you are far away and wish to help, give blood. It will be critical in the coming days and supplies are not accessable in NO, and it will free up supplies in your area to be sent to the damaged area hwere needed.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:54 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Margie,
As I saw with Hurricane Charlie just 25 miles to my north (I drove north on I75 and followed right behind the storm up to Punta Gorda and Port Charlotte), today will be a different story. FEMA, National Guard, state and local official and authorities can now get out a begin a full scale rescue operation across the region. They will release info to the media. Also media helicopters will get up today and you will see alot of new video on TV today and tonight. The word will get out very quickly as to how severe the situation is and the nation will respond appropriately.
Chris

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 09:59 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I don't know how much this board is willing/could/even should do to contribute to the recovery efforts in such an unprecedented event, but it seems that one of the primary needs right now is going to be shelter and temporary (maybe long-term temporary) housing for the uncountable displaced who cannot go home for weeks, months, or possibly ever. I know I could set up a guest room and help somebody. I don't know how many others might be able to take in people who have suddenly become homeless, but if there were some place to set up lists of people who could just offer temporary shelter and lodging and communication facilities and a few meals to individuals and families who have no place to go it seems this could go a very long way, not only to helping the helped, but to helping relieve the burden on the federal, state, and local agencies who are going to be completely overwhelmed.

If this should be in a different forum already, forgive me for the mis-post, and please shuffle me thereward.

WhitherWeather

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:00 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I'm not sure how he will get there, he is a Fireman and I feel like some kind of arrangements have been made.I know the Red Cross is asking people to send money instead of supplies so I will help in that way, unfortunately I can't donate blood because I have MS, but I can give money

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:03 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

If some of you who had not heard of this gut-wrenching story, here is a part of that interview from CNN:

A man in Biloxi told CNN affiliate WKRG-TV he believed his wife was killed after she was ripped from his grasp when their home split in half.
"I held her hand as tight as I could," the man said. "She told me, 'You can't hold me.' She told me to take care of the kids and the grandkids ... we ain't got nowhere to go. I'm lost. That's all I had."

Everytime I read that, my eyes fill up with tears.

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:08 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

where are the reports from other nations willing to come and assist those in need right now.

Nations, even ours, assist normally with funds and usually inadequate organized manpower. And governments are not the people they govern. It's individuals and individual initiative and involvement that will put shattered lives back together. As Margie said, we all need to be motivated as individuals by necessity to action, not wait for "nations." I don't mean this as critical of what you're saying; maybe you have a point. I just think it's time to ask ourselves what we are doing, not worry about what some nation is or isn't doing. And I'm going to get busy right now...

WhitherWeather

JMII

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:11 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Plus I made the mistake of going to a friend's house and looking at the network TV news. We switched between ABC, CBS, and NBC, and guess what the hurricane was about? The superdome roof, two feet of flooding in the French Quarter, and the cost of your gasoline is going to go up. I was so shocked. I thought, this terrible, terrible thing has happened and no one in the country has any idea because it is invisible to the media. Then we turned on the public television channel and it was a thoughtful interview with the MEMA director (MS's EMA), Frank Latham I think, and it made my day to hear him say that as soon as the winds died down enough that it was possible, search and rescue operations would start. Just knowing that made me feel so much better.

The same thing happened during Andrew down here in southern FL. The national media coverage is not very good in situations like this because they don't have the local knowledge to understand what they are seeing. They are not familar with the roads, the bridges, the buildings and neighborhoods like people that live and work in the area are. In situations like this you need street by street infomation and the only place your going to get that is from the local media sources. Last night people were calling CNN and asking about returning to their homes in this parish or that parish and reporters on the scene had no idea what area they were talking about. They only know the big names: French Quarter, Burbon Street, Casinos river boats... ect.

The level of reporting will only go down from here. After they get the main story out, show the worst damage and some individual human intrests stories they will go back to "regular" news as people in the rest of the country can't relate to what has happend and will (sadly) grow tired of the story. However WE all know those gulf coast residents will be suffering for MONTHS to come during the clean up and rebuilding stages. Still today some 13 years later there are places where Andrew hit that show the scars.

Some people do understand what you are going thru... and you will be OK, hang in there help is on the way. My donation went the Red Cross last night and urge others to do the same.

(Meteorologist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:16 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

The Force 2005,

1. Hurricanes undergo eyewall cycles as a natural part of their development. We don't know everything behind them other than that they occur and our conceptual/mathematical models say that they should occur. How often, exactly when, what the end result will be -- all things we don't know.

2. Storms do not always rapidly intensify after the completion of an eyewall replacement cycle. Generally, they weaken during the cycle and come back to their initial intensity afterward given the same underlying conditions. If those underlying conditions change, however, as they did quite drastically with Katrina -- dry air mixed out, approached the Loop Current -- then you can see further intensification, sometimes at a rapid pace. Other storms will weaken after an eyewall cycle due to land interaction or poorer environmental conditions.

3. Distance that the winds extend from the storm isn't related to the strength of each side of the system. The forward motion of the storm is going to lead to that right side being a decent bit stronger, whether near the center or far away, due to additive/subtractive effects on the right/left side of motion.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:16 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

To clarify what you folks are saying or thinking of doing.....what I saw from Hurricanes Charlie, Frances and Jeanne - individual efforts can hamper the organized efforts of FEMA, Red Cross etc. if you do not inquire as to what is needed and how you can help. They are the experts at this. the bad areas are inaccessible and are off limits. please stay out of the area and do not become another death or injury yourself. if you want help then contribute money to the disaster relief effort or call one of the organizations and ask how you can volunteer your time. many times people who started collections for the relieft efforts were collecting the wrong items that were not needed.

Domino

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:18 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

In regards to reporting internationally on Katrina....I am currently in Manila, The Philippines. Yesterday's newspaper had a huge sat photo of Katrina on the front page. Today's...had no mention of the storm. I am curious to see what tomorrow's has. Ironic that the Philippines sits in a typhoon prone area...

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:23 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

O.K.

What I was trying to convey is this. I don't expect other countries to come running to aid Americans in time of need. We are going to get through this as we always do. But this is of a different magnatude, that no one can imagine. To say that we as Americans are standing by to assist our own, will be tremendous out pouring from everyone. When it comes to donations and supplies, why not from other countries? This tradegy as it will be unfolded in the days and weeks, perhaps mothns and years, can and probally be more than anyone can bear. This is humane suffering, not just as Americans, but we as humans have to share this with everyone. I'm sure it has been beemed around the world for all to see, we too as a country need help in these kind of tragedies, of course we also have the resources to do this alone, but do we have too? I say not, yes every citizen of this great Nation should stand ready to assist our own citizens in anyway they can. Outside assistance would always be welcomed from our Allies. Isn't this tragedy the "Call" for help.

they barely helped us after 9/11...keep dreaming

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:24 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I hope you are right.

Here are some things I found from the web media. Apparently they haven't even been able to get to places like, I am assuming, Waveland, Bay St. Louis, and Pass Christian:

"We know that there is a lot of the coast that we have not been able to get to," the governor said. "I hate to say it, but it looks like it is a very bad disaster in terms of human life."

"This is our tsunami," Biloxi Mayor A.J. Holloway told the Biloxi Sun Herald.

In Louisiana, officials said people in some swamped neighborhood were feared dead, but gave no immediate numbers.

"Let me tell you something, folks. I've been out there. It's complete devastation," Gulfport Fire Chief Pat Sullivan said Monday. He estimated that 75 percent of buildings in Gulfport have major roof damage, "if they have a roof left at all."

Harrison County coroner Gary Hargrove said rescuers in flood areas should focus first on finding those who are still alive rather than worrying about floating bodies they might come across.

"If they're dead, they're dead," Hargrove said. "We've got the living to take care of."

-----

For some people, like Suzanne Rodgers, the day offered a rude awakening.

CNN's Paula Zahn spoke with her about what she saw.

ZAHN: When do you think you might be able to go home?

RODGERS: Well, I actually went home about an hour and a half ago. And there is no home to go to. The apartment complex that I lived in, which is on the beach in Ocean Springs, is totally leveled. There's nothing there anymore.

ZAHN: Totally leveled?

RODGERS: Not as much as...

ZAHN: Totally lost?

RODGERS: Totally lost. Totally lost. We actually had to park about three blocks away and walk as far as we could walk to the -- where I lived at. And there's nothing there. They're gone. It's all rubble. There's nothing left.

And my neighbors had just built a big beautiful home -- million-dollar home. And it is gone. All the homes on the beach in Biloxi -- in Ocean Springs, excuse me -- are gone.

And then, when I left there, after we viewed that -- I have nothing left now -- we went to Biloxi. We rode over to Biloxi to see about my mother, where my mother lives. And the water -- the rivers have swollen in north Biloxi so bad that you can't get through to drive over there.

So we drove to where the casinos are. The casinos appear to be still standing. Of course, you know, I don't know about the water and the tidal surges. But there are -- there are like 18 wheelers on top of cars and homes in the middle of the streets. And there's people wandering down the streets with nowhere to go, homeless. They've got maybe a bag over their shoulder, and they're all in the middle of the streets, with nowhere to go. And the homes, houses and boats and cars are just -- debris is just everywhere. It's just -- it's very catastrophic down here. It reminds me of Camille.

ZAHN: We should help the audience understand, you're talking about a storm that packed 135-mile-per-hour winds. But help us understand...

RODGERS: Yes.

ZAHN: ... the construction of an apartment building, where the whole thing went out to sea? You said there's absolutely nothing left?

RODGERS: There's nothing left. All I found that belonged to me was a shoe.

ZAHN: A shoe?

RODGERS: A shoe. That was it. And a chair that I had put inside of my apartment. I lived on the bottom floor. This was a two-story brick building that I lived in. And it was very nice. Of course we were on the beach. And there is nothing left. There's nothing left. There's -- there's debris hanging from trees. And there's homes that were -- that [withstood] Camille, actually 'stood Camille. The homes that 'stood Camille didn't stand this hurricane. They're gone. They're absolutely gone.

And the home that I was telling you about that my friends had just built, it was just -- it was just extremely gorgeous. And it was two stories and a beautiful home, stucco. It was made of stucco brick. And gone.

ZAHN: Nothing left of it either.

RODGERS: Nothing but -- nothing, nothing left.

ZAHN: Suzanne, what are you standing in front of now? What's behind you?

RODGERS: I'm standing in front of the Comfort Inn. This is where I work. And we got pretty beat up last night also. Today, this morning.

ZAHN: Well, we could see from the pictures when you were standing next to that window -- that made me very nervous. What are you going to do now, Suzanne? Where are you going to live?

RODGERS: Well, I've got family that live in Jackson. I've got a sister up there. But I'm, you know, presently worried about a younger sister of mine who stayed near the beach this morning. And like, we have no power, and no phone, no way to call. And you know, my family probably -- they don't know if I'm OK or not. They're all in Jackson. My children are in Jackson. And one is in Destin, Florida. And...

ZAHN: Well, I'm hoping they have power tonight so they can see that you're OK, that you've survived, and...

RODGERS: Yes, right.

ZAHN: ... seemingly undaunted by the challenge that lies ahead. We are so sorry, Suzanne. And we really appreciate...

RODGERS: Well...

ZAHN: ... your dropping by to explain to us just how powerful this storm was.

RODGERS: Yes, it was very, very powerful. I can remember Camille. But I can never remember Camille doing what it did to the north side of the Highway 90. You know, a lot of damage was up front. But it's devastating.

Note: Ocean Springs is in Jackson County MS where there has still been no word on my brother.

------

By midafternoon the wind was still so strong that rescue teams were just starting to leave the Harrison County emergency operations center.

Note: This tallies with what I heard from my brother, which was that hurricane-force winds started in early morning hours in Jackson County and lasted until mid-afternoon, but they were still having TS winds into late afternoon. Rescuers went out as soon as possible in the late afternoon and worked throughout the night on search & rescue.

----

From an eyewitness account in Mississippi City, which lies further west of Gulfport on the gulf coast:

"When everything started crumbling, I was dodging cinder-blocks," he said.

VolusiaMike

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:28 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

A Nationwide effort is underway to provide assistance to the strickened areas. Police, fire and rescue personnel are enroute from all over the country. In Florida, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is coordinating the response efforts. Resources are being sent in for initial 10 day rotations with additional units being set to relieve those personnel.

From the fire services side, the Florida Fire Chiefs Association is handling the logisitics of providing assistance. Four USAR (Urban Search and Rescue) teams are in the area, arriving last night. Additional strike teams are being sent and scheduled for extended periods of time, as long as needed. Reportedly, many communities have no equipment left to provide service, so equipment, as well as personnel resources are being mustered.

Large groups of equipment and personnel have been staged in the Panhandle area waiting for the weather to allow them to enter.

The main problem right now is accessing the major heavily damaged areas. Military assistance will be available (last year fire equipment was shipped into some affected areas via military landing craft).

Trying to access the area and provide assistance as a private citizen will only add to the crisis. The people being sent into the affected areas are professionals with the equipment and training they need to do the job. One of the biggest problems generally faced in the immediate aftermath is dealing with well-meaning people who clog the system by trying to be helpful. If you want to help, donate cash to the many groups who are equipped to handle such issues (Red Cross, Salvation Army, Church groups,e tc.).

If I get additional information on the resources being sent from Florida, I will post.

Michael

VolusiaMike

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:37 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Just heard from the Fire Chief of my City who is handling the efforts of the Florida Fire Chiefs Association.

Currently they have 3 strikes team in the MS area (they are covering five counties in MS). With 210 USAR personnel currently activity working the area. They are currently working a collaspe in the Pascagoula MS area.

They expect to triple the number of personnel within the area by noon.

The Chief is about an hour away from the Florida EOC in Tallahassee. From there he will go to Biloxi to handle the incoming resources. Additional information will be posted when received.

Michael

twizted sizter

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 10:40 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

The Fl Baptist Association..think I got the name right...is heading out today...they will be doing food...have capabilities to feed 20,000 daily.

My husband & I made a sizeable donation to Red Cross earmarked for this disaster...I & a neighbor also went to Wal-Mart & bought every case of water, Gator-Aid, diapers, bread,wet wipes, etc.., etc..that the store had to be sent as well.

I just don't there are words to adequately describe what we are seeing today. I hope those who are more fortunate...tv/movie stars, big business, sports figures find that special something inside of themselves & donate...imagine what could be done with the financial resources this group of people have.

Littlebit

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:01 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Not sure if I should post this here, but just to let you know..... TECO (Tampa Electric Company) sent 100 people and equipment up yesterday morning to stand by to assist when needed. They will possibly be sending more soon.

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:09 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Just heard from the Fire Chief of my City who is handling the efforts of the Florida Fire Chiefs Association.

Currently they have 3 strikes team in the MS area (they are covering five counties in MS). With 210 USAR personnel currently activity working the area. They are currently working a collaspe in the Pasaqua MS area.

They expect to triple the number of personnel within the area by noon.

The Chief is about an hour away from the Florida EOC in Tallahassee. From there he will go to Biloxi to handle the incoming resources. Additional information will be posted when received.

Michael

Do you mean a collapse in the Pascagoula, MS area?

I think this likely to be one of the schools that may have been used as a shelter.

----

Got this info:

Hancock and Jackson counties fared no better. A foot of water swamped the emergency operations center at the Hancock County courthouse -- which sits 30 feet above sea level. The back of the courthouse collapsed under the onslaught.

"Thirty-five people swam out of their emergency operations center with life jackets on," neighboring Harrison County emergency medical services director Christopher Cirillo said Monday. "We haven't heard from them."

Jackson County's emergency operations center also disintegrated as Katrina raged ashore. The roof was peeling off by 7:30 a.m., forcing officials to evacuate to the courthouse across the street.

My brother in Jackson County told me they started to get the 100+ mph winds at 7am, which were still going on unabated at 11am when he called.

note: Hancock is the westmost of the 3 counties that no one has heard from yet, with communities like Waveland and Bay St. Louis, that apparently were completely submerged, and which the northern eyewall of Katrina hit directly from the south.
----

Also found this:

Grand Casino Biloxi washed across U.S. 90.

In Gulfport, the Copa Casino barge sat on land next to the Grand Casino parking garage.

I suspected those should have been towed away and if not would be washed ashore.

----

From WAVE 3 TV blog, WLOX's sister station:

We're still receiving massive amounts of e-mails from folks looking for information on very specific locations, people, etc. We will struggle to do this because of manpower limitiations, but we will try to paint broad pictures for you.

We're getting lots of requests for Long Beach and Pass Christian information. Here's what I've got right now, and it's not much because there's no communication there and emergency personnel haven't been able to make their way very far into Pass Christian. Hancock County is largely unknown ground at this point.I've posted stuff from the first foray by National Guardsmen into Pass Christian.

The southern area of Diamondhead below Interstate 10 has been heavily damaged.

Total destruction from the Bay Bridge to St. Stanislaus. She also said Coleman Ave. and Nicholson Ave. suffered mass destruction.

Brad in Miami

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:18 AM

Times-Picayune evacuating

Not sure if anyone posted this, but from nola.com:

T-P EVACUATING

Tuesday, 9:40 a.m.

The Times-Picayune is evacuating it's New Orleans building.

Water continues to rise around our building, as it is throughout the region. We want to evaucate our employees and families while we are still able to safely leave our building.

Our plan is to head across the Mississippi River on the Pontchartrain Expressway to the west bank of New Orleans and Jefferson Parish. From there, we'll try to head to Houma.

Our plan, obviously, is to resume providing news to our readers ASAP. Please refer back to this site for continuing information as soon as we are able to provide it.

mojorox

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:19 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Venezuela offered doctors and cheap fuel yesterday but that is the only offer I have seen so far.

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:26 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

OPEC is supposed to meet today about increasing their output and increasing the amount of oil they can sell to us. How generous. Don't suppose they'll lower the cost at all.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:33 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

This article was from a Canadian commentator. This article hits home.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7143/Diesel5.html

Please read:

VolusiaMike

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:34 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Yes, sorry, Pascaguoula MS. They are having a briefing at noon, so I might obtain additional information following that. I am home today, but have to go into the office for awhile this afternoon. May be late this afternoon before I can get back to posting.

Michael

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:45 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

MS EMA web site doesn't appear to be up.

Anyone with information about a web address listing either survivors or victims for MS Gulf Coast by county, please PM me the web addy.

Thanks in advance.

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:46 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Thanks so much.

Please email me directly at mkieper@yahoo.com, if you have the time, with any direct information regarding Pascagoula MS that I can pass on to my family who evacuated from there.

WeatherNut

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:51 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Margie, I searched all your recent posts and I have been thinking of your brother all night. I was wondering if you had any word from him. As bad as it was in Atlanta last night (32 tornado warnings)....I cant even imagine the gulf coast. If you have not heard from him I pray that you will soon. I have a house guest who owns a business in the Quarter in NO and he is being told it could be a month before he can be up and running. It took him 15hrs to drive up here (usually takes 7).

charlottefl

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:55 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I have to give a lot of credit to orginizations such as FEMA, American Red Cross, The Salvation Army, and too many others to name. They work incredibly hard in the face of such disaster and are really going to be a lifeline to the areas affected by this storm. If I could be up there with one of them I would in a heartbeat. I live in Port Charlotte and we were in the inner eyewall of hurricane Charley and those are the people who I consider the real heroes, them and all local emergency officals. They made sure we knew what to do during the storm as well as fed us and gave us water when none was available, and it was them that stayed in the area when national news stopped covering the story. At least one of these orginizations will have my financial support in lieu of this storm.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:55 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Hate to bring this up, but 91L is now NONAME on the NRL site. Models are now shifting left on the 12Z runs. Models also are developing something near the Bahamas. Need to watch these features......the peak of the season is coming up soon.

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:57 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

with how many tornado warnings they had the other day im sure alot of the damage was due to then as well.
Its a shame that the levvey broke or NO. would not have been as bad.Many were quick to jump on the media and others for saying N.O got off easy which they did until the levvey broke so today is worse then the storm for that city.

Last night they were talking about how this was much stronger then andrew since there was no flooding with andrew but you cannot compare those 2 storms as the coastlines they hit were much different.The flooding is much worse in this storm but im not sure if the winds were worse.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:58 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Now why did you have to go say that now for!!!!

SirCane

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:58 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

In 1967 there was a Hurricane Katrina in the East Pacific. I can't believe the path it took! Unbelieveable. Check it out....

http://weather.unisys.com/hurricane/e_pacific/1967/KATRINA/track.gif

marathonman

(Registered User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 11:59 AM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Is the bridge between Slidell and New Orleans gone? Heard a rumor and looking for news story. Also can not find my sister Elaind Brown . She was last in contact from cell phone at 9:00am Monday am as water was coming into her second floor of her Slidell apt.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:00 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb_latest/danger_atl_latestBW.gif

here we MIGHT go again

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:00 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

It is safe to say that we will "NEVER" have another storm named Katrina. Good riddens.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:00 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

While not destroyed to the point of no return (though this could be debated), New Orleans seems to be at the very least out of service for the next year. The mayor said that 80% of the city was flooded (last night and that's before the CBD flooded). It's tough to guesstimate, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that at least 50% of the homes are flooded. Not necessarily destroyed, but due to the extensive repairs required and the dire health hazard, people will not be able to live in many of these homes that have sat in water for the period that these homes will end up sitting. If I'm not mistaken that's likely close to 750,000 homeless (and likely jobless). Just in N.O. add in those in MS, Alabama, and elsewhere in LA and you have an astronomical figure. There is no way to house all of these folks. I saw what they did after Charley in regards to the "trailer city." You cannot build a trailer city for one million people. Add in the environmental hazards the area is facing... oil and gas all over the water... bug breeding grounds... lack of water (ironically enough).... close quarters for survivors... fires... floating dead... wild animals... and looting.

I still don't think people truly understand what is happening here, especially thanks to the erroneous early reports of a "spared city." This morning one of the major networks was discussing the dolphins in the pool in MS and then proceeded to joke around for a few minutes about dolphins killing sharks. How utterly inappropriate. Would such a glib attitude have been taken on September 11th? This is most likely the worst natural disaster (and it can be argued that it is the worst disaster, not just natural) of our time, at least since the San Francisco earthquake/fire. I hope people wake up to this fact, but more importantly I hope that the lives of those so irrevocably affected by this catastrophe are SOMEHOW able to recover.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:02 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Is the bridge between Slidell and New Orleans gone?

Yes, parts of the bridge are gone. http://www.wzzm13.com/news/grmetro_article.aspx?storyid=43550

Just watched a report from Bay St. Louis on CNN. Camille-ish.

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:04 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Hate to bring this up, but 91L is now NONAME on the NRL site. Models are now shifting left on the 12Z runs. Models also are developing something near the Bahamas. Need to watch these features......the peak of the season is coming up soon.

If you are going to talk about this 91l the 12z model runs only move left the early part ,but the gdfl and nogaps still take it as a fish just a little more down the road since it is relocated the center.The local met said the center may be reforming more south and that is what the models are picking up on but all still take it as a fish so lets just worry right now about the people in N.O and save the fish for another day

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:07 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Margie, I searched all your recent posts and I have been thinking of your brother all night. I was wondering if you had any word from him. As bad as it was in Atlanta last night (32 tornado warnings)....I cant even imagine the gulf coast. If you have not heard from him I pray that you will soon. I have a house guest who owns a business in the Quarter in NO and he is being told it could be a month before he can be up and running. It took him 15hrs to drive up here (usually takes 7).

As soon as I have any word I will post it here.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:08 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I thought this was a tropical weather site.

it is...your post stays

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:09 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

As the point I was trying to make on my previous posts. Still, have not heard or seen any reports coming in from around the world for assistance. This will go down history as perhaps the worst disaster for the U.S. barring any futrue storms.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:11 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Quote:

Hate to bring this up, but 91L is now NONAME on the NRL site. Models are now shifting left on the 12Z runs. Models also are developing something near the Bahamas. Need to watch these features......the peak of the season is coming up soon.

If you are going to talk about this 91l the 12z model runs only move left the early part ,but the gdfl and nogaps still take it as a fish just a little more down the road since it is relocated the center.The local met said the center may be reforming more south and that is what the models are picking up on but all still take it as a fish so lets just worry right now about the people in N.O and save the fish for another day

Good reply Ralph.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:13 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Pardon me, but maybe the discussions of the aftermath of the storm should be placed in its own forum. Can we do that John?

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:14 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

For New Orleans - a dangerously vulnerable city because it sits mostly below sea level in a bowl-shaped depression - it was not the apocalyptic storm forecasters had feared.

As qouted by a local commentator for a local news station in N.O.

How absurd!!!

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:15 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

What are you trying to say?

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:17 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

That these posts are news related - no longer weather related. You can get all that info on Fox/CNN, why are we re-posting it here? You can PM a friend with info if need be. Those are the rules correct??

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:18 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

This is a tropical website forum, but you have to admit to yourself, that there is a human tragedy taken place here. This is the forum we are using for people to somehow try to make contact with loved ones that have been affected by this storm.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:19 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Fair enough.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:20 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

If you read previous posts, the rules have been relaxed to the nature of the clamity taken place.

tpratch

(Moderator)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:21 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Calm it down a bit folks.

Aftermath discussions usually take place in the threads (especially ones entitled Katrina Aftermath).

The mods here will deem what is inappropriate content-wise. Yes, we have a potential fish spinner on our hands, so until it gets its own thread, the forecast forum is always a safe place to discuss this.

Please don't forget that the aftermath is as much a part of our discussion as the formation and landfall are.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:21 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Yes Mike C posted earlier the rules would be relaxed in this particular
case, and I agree with that. However, it doesnt mean we can ONLY talk
about the tragedy and not on impending storms etc. IMHO

All this bickering is unnecessary, it shouldnt bother anyone to talk
about either one!

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:22 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Thank-You

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:23 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

As the point I was trying to make on my previous posts. Still, have not heard or seen any reports coming in from around the world for assistance. This will go down history as perhaps the worst disaster for the U.S. barring any futrue storms.

Sadly I'm not suprised. Perhaps when people see the effect that this storm will have on the national economy they will truly realize what a devastating storm this was. I think the Feds have a good idea on the extent of the storm damage, but for some reason the national television stations are not reporting. I know I sound like a broken record, but the national stations still seem to be oblivious or unwilling to publicize the catastrophic nature of the storm. This is one case where I am very thankful for the internet.I have turned to the local television stations. They said that the city is flooded with feet of water over almost the entire city and unfortunately fires are raging across areas of the city as firefighters either cannot reach them or are not able to put them out as they are too busy in other areas. Highway 90 from MS is completely and utterly destroyed. Medical care in the city is pretty much unavailable. Also there is apparently 3 feet of water in the Superdome. According to the local tv: the lake continues to flow into the city through the two breaches and water will consider to spread across the city, literally filling bowl as the water is going to spread out across the city until the areas have more uniform flooding. They also say that due to the tremendous stress on the levees, further levee breaks are possible. Officials are urging those still in New Orleans to leave. The only way out is through the "Crescent City Connection." (There is no way into the city). There is also concern (eventually) about some limited flooding from the Mississippi as it rises from rainwater to the north. Those in the Superdome will be there for "a long time." They hope that the refugees in the Superdome will remain calm (Again, this is not according to me, this is according to the local news). At least two people inside the Superdome have died. "This is bad as it gets people."

Crews are hoping to plug the levees by dropping 3000lb sandbags from helicopters.

SkeetoBite Administrator

(Master of Maps)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:24 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Folks, these are difficult times. Lets remain polite and calm and not supress opinions.

A great many people are hurting right now and open discussion about the aftermath of tropical weather is ok given the extreme circumstances.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:25 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Well, I certainly would agree with that, but this possible fish spinner with a no-name as well, is probally a week to ten days away if that, there is no discussion at this point to get everyone in a frenzy of another potential storm that does not exsist at the moment.

rhendryx

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:27 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I am not going to try to do the job of the mods, but the title of the current thread is "Katrina Aftermath". I think there are many people on this thread who want to keep the primary focus on the aftermath. I am sure the administrators will start a new thread for new Atlantic activity at some point. I am sure no poster meant offense to anyone else and neither do i.

Just heard an interview on TV of the person in charge of the Salvation Army relief efforts. Mobile kitchens from the Salvation Army are in Alabama and will soon be assisting with meals.

Terra

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:30 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

New Orleans is under marshall law, and it seems they are trying to get everyone out (and of course, not let anyone back in). I don't understand how this is logistically possible, since it was not possible to evacuate everyone before the storm when transportation was possible.

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:31 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Well i ask you this question.The Oil prices are supose to go up over 3$ here in Florida soon because of this storm.....NOW what i ask you is this.Yes there is gonna be a time like last year to get the rigs going again BUT tell me this.How many Cars? How many Trucks? how many Suv's? how many things that use gas in these states.....LA.........MS...........ALA.......And any other state this cane hit are not able to move? 200,000? more less? then times that by how many gallons on Gas they use a day and are we not saving that? you got to think those 3 states are using a million less gallons of gas each day since the storm hit NO? am i way off or what?

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:32 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Unless they have a boat or a helicopter, I am thinking they cant get
back in anyway.... maybe I am wrong. It is terrible, If it were me I would want to see my house, even if it was under water. Hard to stay away I would expect.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:33 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Well i ask you this question.The Oil prices are supose to go up over 3$ here in Florida soon because of this storm.....NOW what i ask you is this.Yes there is gonna be a time like last year to get the rigs going again BUT tell me this.How many Cars? How many Trucks? how many Suv's? how many things that use gas in these states.....LA.........MS...........ALA.......And any other state this cane hit are not able to move? 200,000? more less? then times that by how many gallons on Gas they use a day and are we not saving that? you got to think those 3 states are using a million less gallons of gas each day since the storm hit NO? am i way off or what?

You are way off Ralph. A lot of gas and oil will be used to aid in the recovery efforts. The evacuees still have to drive BACK also.

HurricaneSteph

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:34 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

The Red Cross, FEMA and various other organizations will be doing their parts to help the victims of this storm. However, please don't forget there are thousands of animals too that are now homeless. Your local SPCA/Humane Society can tell you what is best to donate, i.e. dog and cat food, etc. Not sure if someone has already mentioned giving any kind of aid to our animal friends in this thread, it's grown too large for me to read each previous post!
Stay safe, folks...as always!

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:34 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

CNN has listed ways in which individuals can help:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/30/help.agencies/index.html

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:34 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I don't believe that gas prices will sky rocket cause I do believe that the Pres will allow reserves to be tapped into. you also can tell by the price of oil that is maintaining it's price almost from a week ago. Now I do believe that there could be a case to say that this has the potential for price gouging the residents to get gas for their cars. I think that th eFEDS should keep a watchful eye over how the prices are going up.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:37 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Margie,

Any word from your brother yet. May god be with you and him.

(Senior Storm Chaser)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:39 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

No word.

BobVee thanks for your PM. You need to change your settings if you want to receive PMs from other users.

Those D'Iberville deputies that were rescued were in Harrison County, not Jackson County, but thanks for that info.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:49 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Margie,

What does your line mean?

The first thing I learned from looking at satellite loops was that the air was dancing.

bobbutts

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:56 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Basically agree with Big Red as far as the seriousness of the damage is.. I hope I didn't offend anyone with my earlier post saying this isn't "The Big One". The only "good" news is that it appears that there won't be an unimaginable death toll and to a lesser extent complete destruction of NO we had been fearing. Compared to history this seems to be shaping up to be the biggest one so far and that's certainly bad enough no matter what you label it.

That said the questions now.. removing the dead, finding a place to live for the newly homeless, trying to keep people healthy in cleanup and refugee area.. these are beyond anything we've dealt with before.

Really good point re: the temp housing
no idea what the answer is.

Having lived through Charley and seeing the massive relief effort here it's just hard to fathom the effort that will need to take place in such a larger (very rough guess of serious damage in 20x as large area) and more heavily populated area. Don't know what the logistics are for cleaning up flooding vs. wind damage, but I'd have to assume flooding is hell to clean.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 12:58 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

This is why the Red Cross has mobilized over 200,000 volunteers to the affected areas. The most in the history of the U.S. If that says anything of the enormity, nothing does.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:05 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I know no one has posted this, so I will comment on this.

The crew of the Hurricane Hunters:

They deserve an extrodinarily amount of credit for their job while under immense pressure, cause you have to remind yourselfs, that they had familys in Biloxi, Gulfport, and the Gulf Coast. Try imagine flying into Katrina, knowing your family was below, an awful task even to think about.

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:05 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I think we have seen devastation like this with the tsunami. Perhaps not in death toll, but in the sense that complete communities and infrastructure have been closed to wiped out. Countless homeless people, who need to be feed, housed. How long will it take not only to rebuild, but to get the economy and workplaces up and running again. I can't imagine the undertaking that is going to be involed in rebuilding these areas. And while this may be controversial, should so much be rebuilt in a place that is cearly so vulnerable to this kind of destruction?

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:08 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Well, along those same lines, why do people re-build their homes right on the beach/coast again, after a hurricane/storm just wiped it clean.

Go figure!!

Hootowl

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:09 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Margie,

They have town by town info. I am sure they will also have survivor info. You might want to save this link.

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/special_packages/hurricane_katrina/12513444.htm

You and your family are still in my prayers.

Dotty

(Moderator)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:10 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Thinking about it, a few points on gas prices...

1) 30 percent (around) of all gas refinery capacity is in the NO/LA area. How much of that capacity has been disrupted/destroyed and how long will it take to get said capacity back online?

2) All Refineries are pretty much running at capacity for summer season (and with the big travel holiday Labor day coming up).

3) The Strategic oil reserve would be perfect for the emergency, except there is no way to refine the gasoline. it's a psychological move to help keep the public calm until a better solution can be worked out.

4) Disruption of supply routes will become very evident in price increases as well as shortages that crop up with JIT inventory. (it won't be just in time if the trucks can't get through, the good news, the disruptions will be temporary as things get rerouted, unless railways have lost routes, those are a bit harder to get back up and running).

As far as calling this the big one or not, The story reminds me of a slow motion freight train hitting a car stuck on the tracks, no matter that you survived the initial impact, NO is going through the equivelent of being dragged along in the car and trying to get out before the car is totally destroyed. (My apologies for the rather gruesome analogy, it is apropos to the situation)

The flooding continues to worsen, You're now looking at issues of disease as well as any heat related risks. No city is ever a total loss, but New Orleans will be a very different city when it is rebuilt.

And I am not trying to mitigate what is happening over in MS and AL and NE of New Orleans. Their damage was more severe in quite a few ways.

I want to be wrong, I really do, and maybe if I say it, it'll turn out to be wrong (kind of like my storm predictions (gallows humor, sorry)), But I think the death toll will reach 4 digits and could reach 5 digits.

It may not be the 'worst case' scenario, but it's near enough to be indistinguishable from my viewpoint.

-Mark

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:16 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Well, stated. I agree, that the human toll is going to be extreme, probally more than they can fathom.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:21 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

.How many Cars? How many Trucks? how many Suv's? how many things that use gas in these states.....LA.........MS...........ALA.......And any other state this cane hit are not able to move? 200,000? more less? then times that by how many gallons on Gas they use a day and are we not saving

To answer specifically your question, the affected part of the Gulf Coast clearly produces far more refined patroleum products (gasoline, diesel fuel, aviation fuel, heating oil) than it uses so the devastation we are seeing and discussing here is far and away a net loss in supply. The biggest problem is most likely the loss of refining capacity in the 8 refineries not currently operating. Since US refineries were already at maximum capacity, the loss of these refineries means a reduction in US gasoline supplies and that will be true even if, as discussed, the President makes available crude oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

That said, there has also been some criticism here about the media putting focus on the price of gas and other economic issues. While I am as aghast as you all about the loss of life, I think it is wrong to argue that the national media have misplaced their priorities in this. I think what we are seeing develop has the potential to completely change the nation's economic future for several years to come. Among other things that could mean a recession with many many people nationwide being affected. If we indeed have not only a high gasoline price but actual shortages of supply regardless of price, the economy will suffer a severe blow and I do think that's information worthy of discussion by both the media and anyplace the aftermath of this storm is being thoughtfully considered--including here.

BobVee

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:28 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

For the same reasons we should give our thoughts and prayers to those men and women of the emergency services in all of the communities. They left their families to provide for the needs of others in the face of all of this. All are heroes.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:28 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Mark, I completely agree with you. On a national level, the economic consequences of this disaster will be staggering. There are only a handful of cities in our nation that if they were to be destroyed (or at the very least we can agree "out of service" for 1-2 years) the entire country would feel the negative effects. As awful as the destruction of a city is, it typically does not lead to the drastic consequences that the destruction of this strategic port will lead to.

Just heard on CNN that a man has jumped to his death in the Superdome. There is waist deep water outside the dome. Toilets are overflowing. They are trying to evacuate the mayor from City Hall (which is surrounded by water) to the Superdome. Conditions inside are utterly unbearable. Literally a H--- on Earth.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:28 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Well, along those same lines, why do people re-build their homes right on the beach/coast again, after a hurricane/storm just wiped it clean.

Go figure!!

Because they like living on the beach, and they look at how long it has been since the last such devestation and figure the odds favor them being able to live out the rest of their lives in their beautiful new homes. Also, it makes some difference (less than others will argue IMHO) that the government will provide flood and other insurance to people doing this. Some of them, not many I am arguing, but some, might not do it if they had to assume the entire economic risk themselves.

Sheeper

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:30 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

though this may be off-topic, i felt it necessary to share some tsunami info with the group. Note: i'm on the advisory board for the linked group. If anyone would like copies of the videos, please let me know.

http://www.ricereliefcorp.org/gallery.aspx
tsunami video

the link to the video clips are powerful and disturbing. Also a view of how terrible things can be. This footage was provided directly to us and has not been distributed to wide channels that i'm aware of.

zmdz01

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:32 PM

A Picture from New Orleans

Here is a picture of New Orleans from a Coast Guard flight:

teal61

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:33 PM

Has anyone heard from Frank P....

I don't believe he stayed at home , probably sheltered at his wifes work. His home probably has significant damage if not destroyed .

A sad sad day indeed.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:36 PM

Re: Has anyone heard from Frank P....

I PM'd Ed (Dunham) about FrankP, danielw and rick on boat in mobile but have not heard back as of yet.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:38 PM

Re: Has anyone heard from Frank P....

maybe Skeeto knows and can tell us something.....

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:38 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

This storm has caused many things to happen to those areas affected by Katrina, and they are:

1. The human toll. Going to be great
2. The suffering, no place to house your family, no water, no sewage, no nothing.
3. The economy there, as well as other parts of the nation will be affected by Katrina for years.
4. Long term, everyone will be affected, by the sites and sounds coming out of those areas hit hard. Can't imagine this is something that is easily going to go away.

This story will be told over and over again for decades to come. I was only 6 years old when Camille struck MS. Don't have any memories till school.

Hurricane Katrina, The storm that survived under the harshest enviroments, and one storm that would not go away.

SkeetoBite Administrator

(Master of Maps)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:40 PM

Re: Has anyone heard from Frank P....

Quote:

maybe Skeeto knows and can tell us something.....

Haven't heard anything yet...

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:42 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

BobVee: Can we talk here about those men and women of the emergency services for a minute? I will go on with the assumption it is permissible. We are going to need the national guard in this situation in the worst possible way, but I don't know if we will have them. The guard is already stretched very thin. I do not know the status of guard units from the affected and neighboring states--whether there are enough of them available to do the necessary job. This brings up the argument about the priority of the guard mission. Very recently, it was said by national guard leaders that the guard's priority is the "Federal mission" which is why we may not have sufficient guard personnel available now in this disaster. I do know that if we had a larger active duty military, we would have both guard units available at home to deal with disasters like this and troops necessary to carry out the military mission wherever our leadership feels it necessary.

In this situation, I heard the 2nd Fleet Commander say that they intended to send an assault ship task force to the affect coastal areas. An assault ship has extensive medical facilites including a 600 bed hospital ward and also it has numerous helocopters for relief work. Normally, I think the army would ultimately need to be deployed to the affected area as well, but do we now have troops available? I think it's a serious question whose answer I am waiting to see.

By the way--just for the record, I am retired after 26 years in the Navy Medical Corps so I know a bit about how dicey this mission is going to be.

(Moderator)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:50 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Using the army? hmmmm. I think it's a bad idea, but when you have Martial Law, sometimes even a bad idea is the best one available (if the alternatives are worse... which very well might be the case).

My big fear is the next few days may see increasing acts of desperation as people's sense of urgency to survive cause people to act in worse ways.

I know martial law is in effect, but does anyone have a link to what sort of emergency edicts have been made at this time?

(Curfews, restrictions on travel, consequences of looting, etc)

-Mark

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:50 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

As we are discussing the (most certain) economic effects of this storm on the nation as a whole, not to mention the local economy of the areas affected, let us not forget the emotional toll this event will take on all those affected/involved. Eventually, the cities, towns and businesses (for the most part I hope) will rebuild and recover (I use that term loosely) The emotional devistation I fear, are scars that will never fade.

My continuous prayers are with all affected and my good fortune in the form of donations to the RED CROSS.

Give what you can...it all adds up and it all helps.

LkOkeechobeeF

(Registered User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:51 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

To clarify what you folks are saying or thinking of doing.....what I saw from Hurricanes Charlie, Frances and Jeanne - individual efforts can hamper the organized efforts of FEMA, Red Cross etc. if you do not inquire as to what is needed and how you can help. They are the experts at this. the bad areas are inaccessible and are off limits. please stay out of the area and do not become another death or injury yourself. if you want help then contribute money to the disaster relief effort or call one of the organizations and ask how you can volunteer your time. many times people who started collections for the relieft efforts were collecting the wrong items that were not needed.

I am a longtime lurker here (3 years) and I was trying to think of ways to help so I e-mailed our local Red Cross as to what type of help is needed (money I know is the main thing) But I was wondering about food and clothes (Personal Items), I think I could get a decent donation. I also work for a local hospital and I know they always do something but they never go public with the donation drives, so I want to do that being I am on vacation this week I have the time to get it all pulled together and started.

GOD BLESS EVERYONE INVOLVED (Victims, Public Service, Volunteers and everyone thinking about these people).)

G. J.

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:51 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Martial Law is NOT in effect, but they have ordered evacuation for NO. FNC just appologized for the misinformation.

-- edit -- some parrishes have implemented Martial Law - Jefferson is one.

WXMAN RICHIE

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:52 PM

Re: Has anyone heard from Frank P....

I remember Phil saying that he gave many of the regulars in the direct path of the storm his phone number. He did the same with me last year for Frances and Jeanne. They probably can't call out though because of all the lines and towers down.

Changing subjects, someone mentioned possible development in the Bahamas and I found this from Miami NWS:
LOW DEVELOPMENT OVER THE ATLC ALONG SURFACE TROUGH UNDERWAY AND SOMETHING TO BE MONITORED. NO CHANGE TO CURRENT EXTENDED PERIOD (WEEKEND) UNTIL POTENTIAL ATLC DEVELOPMENT BECOMES MORE DEFINED.

Anyone know anything about this?

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 01:55 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I am watching CNN and they are doing IMO a good job right now. It is dealing with the emotional side and trying to comprehend what these victims are dealing with. The host even said if what these people are feeling and going through right now doesn't touch the hearts and emotion of everyone - what will. She even mentioned Industy, Businesses and OUR NEIGHBORS around the world need to help

RyanRedCross1

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:01 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

First thank you to site administrators and Skeetobite for helping promote the Red Cross on this website and others.

The Red Cross relief effort for this disaster, like the storm itself, will be unprecedented.

To expediate flow of disaster supplies and funds, donations should be made to 1800 HELP NOW or on the redcross.org website. Please call and also ask about bulk in-kind donations that can be made. For example--pallates of food and water (easily transported and very much in demand)

Please also refer to the Salvation Army for in-kind and monetary donations for the relief effort.

Thanks to all of you guys!! Any small amount that you can give will make a difference. We are there because of the generosity of the everyday American citizen and will continue to be with your help.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:08 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Using the army? hmmmm. I think it's a bad idea, but when you have Martial Law, sometimes even a bad idea is the best one available

This is not unusual. The army (not just the Guard) was deployed after Andrew and other major disasters. There is a SeaBee base in Gulfport and I assume they will be put to work at disaster relief if they have the troops available (not overseas). The army tradition in disasters goes back to at least the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 after which the commander of the Presidio, the local army base, ran the town and the relief effort for some time.

I saw one bit of film of an obviously poor African-American family in Houma whose home had been wrecked, but what was left had already been looted by the time they could get back to it. I certainly think if it takes the army--and I'm pretty sure it will--to stop this sort of thing, they need to send them (if, as I've been saying, they've got them) in sooner rather than later. Also, the army has a lot of equipment--heavy trucks, helos, amphibian vehicles--that will be very helpful.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:14 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

This may have been posted already. If so I'm sorry. Some of you may have already seen it, also. I have to warn you. This is the saddest video that I have ever seen it will wrench your gut.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.h....wkrg&wm=10

On another note, the looting is absolutely rampant. CNN producer was just on the tv. "100's of people looting on Canal Street." Too many people to stop. "City wide looting." People are TRYING STUFF ON in the streets.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:17 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

If anyone was watching the weather channel prior to landfall, Max Mayfield said it best when being interviewd by Larry King about the difference between a CAT 5 or CAT 4, Max replied:
Well it;s like being hit by a freight train, or getting runned over by an eighteen wheeler, both outcomes are not good. Why am I pointing this out!

Well, FNC, CNN and others fevorishly went on the air and said that N.O escape a direct hit. Damage not as bad. When all the local officials were stating that this was going to be a catastrophy. Regardless where the eye came ashore, Max Mayfield said it was going to be bad, for everone, not only N.O. And now look at what we have in N.O., a major catastrophy on thier hands. This is not to say that the other areas aren't as bad, because we all know that outcome. A horrific scene up and down the Gulf Coast. Utterly un-imagineable scenes of devistation.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:19 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I saw earlier on CNN they talked with an Officer with the National Guard that has been in Bagdad with his unit from LA and they are scheduled to be home I think next week. He told them when they do get home they will change hats and do what they need to do to help

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:21 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Shoot them?? What an inappropriate thing to say! I agree that the people who are looting are wrong and I don't condone it but....desperate people do desperate things.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:22 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I think we may see that Biloxi and Gulfport are worse than anyone imagined

zmdz01

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:26 PM

More Help on the way

Here is a news item from Los Angeles:

LOS ANGELES -- The Los Angeles County Fire Department's swift-water rescue team is headed for March Air Force Base in Riverside County, where team members will board a military aircraft bound for Louisiana on Tuesday/

Inspector Ron Haralson says the 14-member team, one of eight mobilized from California, will assist with water rescues in areas ravaged by Hurricane Katrina.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:29 PM

Re: More Help on the way

Just heard Many Fatalities in Bay st Louis They are pleading for any doctors or nurses need them immediately

If anyone knows any medical personel, they are needed asap

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:30 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

A message needs to be sent to the looters, who are capitalizing on the absence of authority as all resources are directed towards rescue and preventing the city from complete submersion.

For a little bit of good news, the Coast Guard has rescued over 1200 people.

-- edit - let's let the news sources talk about possible deaths.. too many unsubstantiated reports are floating around. Accuracy is more important than the speed of reporting. --RedingtonBeachGuy

Not to be contrary Redington, and I will respect your wishes and not repost my comment, but are official statements by city spokesmen REALLY unsubstantianted? In our current situation, that's about as good as you can get.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:31 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I must agree with Native, with remarks/comments like this, this only adds fuel to the fire that already exists. Pleas show some couth of what they are facing there. I admit, how do they stop it. The city will be at seige here shortly if someone (National Guard, Army, Navy, Marines Coast Guard don't come in to help soon. It will be utter caos there.

zmdz01

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:39 PM

Jefferson Parish

This item was on the www.wwltv.com webpage:

"Jeff Parish President. Residents will probably be allowed back in town in a week, with identification only, but only to get essentials and clothing. You will then be asked to leave and not come back for one month."

tenavilla

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:40 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I agree with you BRM, if they are trying clothes on in the street and stealing electronics, that is not desperation. Besides that, they are stealing from a storeowner who has, for all intents and purposes, lost their only way to make a living. They showed on the news where someone had busted open an atm and taken all the money as well. Even if they are desperate, that's nothing but bank robbery.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:41 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Unfortunately there will always be some low lifes who take advantage of someone else's misery. I prefer to talk about the police, fire, EMS, National Guard, Red Cross and other volunteers who put others above their own needs. God Bless Em. We're going to see an outpouring of help from all over our country. And it's not just the government that's going to make this work--it's going to be the average American citizen who has and will always step forward when a national crisis occurs, and this is a national crisis. We're the children and grandchildren of "The Greatest Generation" and we'll continue their legacy of commitment, unselfishess and sacrifice. As a symbol of my support for all those Katrina affected and our unity in this time of crisis, I put the Stars and Stripes up this morning. It'll stay there a while.

Kattbyrde

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:43 PM

Re: More Help on the way

I know this is completely off topic, but does anyone know how I can find out about a friend of mine who lives in Pearl River, LA? I'm not sure if she evacuated in time, if she's ok, etc. Just in case there's anyone here who lives in that area, her name is Donna Johnson. Thanks.

Many are using the Blog at:
www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

Of course, you can also call your local Red Cross.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:44 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

It is sad that the looters are preying on the victims of this tragedy and they should be punished for it, I think right now though the officals feel it is more important to rescue those in need.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:46 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

WELL SAID COAL !! I will do the same.

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:49 PM

Re: More Help on the way

Don't know where to post this.. Suggestion to the Mods:

Perhaps a thread for personal stories would be appropriate. A place for people to post inquiries and information regarding their families and friends in the area.

I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with them being posted in this thread... only am thinking that such inquiries might get buried here... and when a new thread starts, these posts might be left behind.

Just a thought..

-- Edit - you are welsome to start a new thread in the 2005 Storm Forum for that if you like. I will send the site admins your suggestion as well. Thank you.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:51 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

I saw earlier on CNN they talked with an Officer with the National Guard that has been in Bagdad with his unit from LA and they are scheduled to be home I think next week. He told them when they do get home they will change hats and do what they need to do to help

That's one unit and they'll be there (exhausted from Iraq duty) in a WEEK?

BeachBum

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:55 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Using the army? hmmmm. I think it's a bad idea, but when you have Martial Law, sometimes even a bad idea is the best one available (if the alternatives are worse... which very well might be the case).-Mark

The National Guard was very helpful directing traffic after Jeanne. The local police had much else to do.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 02:58 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

"That's one unit and they'll be there (exhausted from Iraq duty) in a WEEK?"

I think she was just saying that there is a unit coming from Iraq to help. It may be only one unit but there are already many units there and will be many more to come. This is less then 24 hours since it hit. Also, they may be exhausted but they will be fine. This is what they do. They are trained for it and I bet NONE will complain.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:00 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

BT that is what he said, they live there it is their home and they will do what they can to help. no it is a unit scheduled to come home and just so happens they live there and he said they would change hats and do what they could to help

alley

(Registered User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:02 PM

Re: More Help on the way

Does anyone know if St Charles Ave is flooding? I just saw Canal St on CNN and the water is rising there. St. Charles General Hospital is on St. Charles Ave and I think corner of Canal.

Reason for asking - my hospice nurse just left my home and her daughter, Kathy Grinstead, is working in the hospital with all of her 5 children and the daughter's father, Ken Gue (all are with hospice). She last talked to her daughter yesterday at 9:30pm. She has been unable to get through by phone to talk to her daughter.

I told my nurse I would try to get some information for her on the conditions in that area. Now I hear that they want everyone out of the city. Also just heard that all of the hospitals are closed and that they have all been evacuated. Watching CNN. Now I need to confirm that ALL hospitals are closed and everyone has been evacuated.

Can someone help me, please?

Alley

-- edit - your best sources for information are going to be:
http://www.wwltv.com/
http://www.nola.com

or watch some of the live TV broadcasts here:
http://www.weatherserver.net/livevideo.htm

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:02 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Regardless of what those of us here at our computers think about the appropriateness of shooting looters, they are going to get shot. Surely we haven't all forgotten the pictures of gun-toting Floridians in the aftermath of Andrew. Louisiana/Mississippi have a similar attitude to Florida on this subject. There is going to be lots and lots of VIOLENCE until/unless governmental authority is re-established in the devestated areas. I am reassured somehwat by the footage of Coast Guard helos rescuing people. That demonstrates a Federal response. But I hope a lot more is happening that we can't yet see. As I said, I think the Navy is there or about to arrive as well.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:06 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Indeed there will BT. CNN reported earlier that some of there reporters in New Orleans were hearing gunfire.

The news of the 1200 Coast Guard rescues was probably the best I've heard all day too.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:09 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I know they won't complain and I know they'll do what they can, but it's far from enough. I don't want to get carried away on this ubject but what disturbs me is that so far, I have seen evidence of scattered local "first responders" (cops and firemen in small boats) and a few Coast Guard helos in action, but what we need here is a massive effort to get to survivors in places like Grande Isle, Bay St. Louis, Pass Chrisitian and so on before they succumb. Remember that in most disasters like this, the majority of deaths come AFTER the storm is over--people electrocuting themselves and such--and that's not counting rising water from a levee break. If a CNN reported could get to Bay St. Louis this morning (as I saw on TV), why can't some form of Federal response? That summarizes my point. I think today is the day when it has to start to minimize loss of life.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:10 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

What a nightmare - things are getting restless at the superdome also,and now they have a fire that just broke out

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:12 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

BT they are in Bay St Louis , I posted earlier that they were asking for medical personel ASAP and they said hundreds were dead

ps - they are showing a medical helicopter bringing in medical supplies

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:14 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Here's maybe a stupid question but one I have been wondering about and I'd appreciate it if anyone has any knowledgeable thoughts: Doesn't all that rain coming down in the Tennessee and Ohio River valleys end up in the Mississippi and doesn't it have to drain past New Olreans? Can the Mississippi overtop the levees simply from river flow? If not normally, is it a concern now if there is standing water on the city side of the levees (which might weaken them?)

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:15 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

This is a city that could potentially, and I say that lightly, that could be overwhelmed by the enormous tragedy taken place in their city. The city is on the brink, as the reports are coming out on local and National news channels. When people are taking their life by jumping from the Superdome, knowing what the city faces, how much can they endure is my question. Help is needed and fast, before an erruption of violence breaks out all over the city.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:17 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Not sure how true it is , but last night on I think Chris Matthews he asked that question and the person and I can't remember who it was said no.

reporter on CNN just said water is hip deep around the superdome unbelievable

age234

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:20 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Not all of the looters are preying on others' misery, some are breaking into grocery stores so they have something to eat. I'm not saying it's okay by any means, but as someone said, desperate people do desperate things. I hope they are able to do some food drops or something.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:21 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Having lived in Baton Rouge for a few years, the river is susceptible
(sp) to rain. Dont know what the flood stage is anymore or where
it is right now in relation to flood stage.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:24 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Corps of Engineers are working the levee. Where it was compromised ,it has broken. Also have a second breach They are now working to rush for military personel

PS also said neighboring states are sending in National Guard

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:26 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Also a third area of the levee that they are concerned could become compromised.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:30 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

When faced with tragedy's, there is one symbol that will show our belief that anything is possible.

please post any images as a LINK...thanks

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/l...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Disaster Master

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:32 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Just got word from Gov. officials that due to looting and lack of public services, That Marshall law will be instituted some time within the next 24 hours. Details are being worked out at this time and are still scetchy.
Marshall law has not beein instituted in some time. Im sorry i havent posted all day today but due to current events time is in short supply. This will be my last post for some time as i am in route to the effected areas. Thanks for all the info and concern for the victims in this event. I assure you that my self and the rest of the Federal Gov. Disaster services are taking care of issues the best way possible under these sircumstances.

RP
National Flood Insurance Program

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:39 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Well, as CNN has reported, we also have the matter to the toxic, infected, mosquito-breeding soup in which any one in New Orleans is now living. Those reporters you see wandering in multi-foot deep water may not know it, but they are taking their lives in their hands: Typhoid, cholera, typhus, malaria, dengue, even yellow fever. These are things Americans think are third-world matters. They are now going to be New Orleans issues: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/050110/10health.b.htm . Also, as CNN pointed out, there is the matter of disoriented animals (and people) wandering the rubble etc etc. I think we are going to see something ghastly. As bad as Andrew was, the aftermath took place on dry land in places the rescuers could get to. This is happening in an inaccessible toxic swamp hundreds of miles wide.

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:41 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Just heard on CNN Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida said this tragedy will reach across the country and everyone will feel it. Already , gas supplies in Florida are compromised and subject has come up of possible gas rationing???

wannabemet

(Registered User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:42 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Been a reader for quite a long time. My ex-wife lives (or now USED to live) in Gulfport, MS about 1 1/2 blks from the beach. Pretty much can guarantee her new townhouse is gone. I've been unable to reach her, but spoke to her mother. She hunkered down with her best friend in Gautier, MS which is near Pasagoula. Said she has never been so scared in her life, and she is leaving Mississippi as soon as she can. They were in a brand new house about 1 1/2 mi from the Gulf, and the roof almost came off. But they sound like they (luckily) came out OK.

Unrelated news...gas is about to go through the roof. I suggest everyone go and "top-off" their tanks NOW. Latest news from AP...gas in Gulf states is wholesaling at $3.15 a gallon, and they usually have the cheapest in the country.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050830/bs_nm/energy_gasoline_prices_dc_4

God bless those on the Gulf Coast....

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:43 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

GOOD NEWS about the martial law.

Saw an article earlier that talked about looters walking right by Nat'l Guard troops and cops. Upon further review of the various articles and first hand accounts, the incredible scope of the problem forces me to stand by my earlier statement. Looting deserves consequences. Particularly the looting of things ther than food. No excuse. Especially during a time of crisis. The problem is at such a level that the drastic measures I mentioned earlier are perhaps justifiable. Such a shame that some people lack the decency to appreciate the fact that they're alive and are foreced to add insult to injury to the entrepreneurs of New Orleans.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9131493/
This tale of a woman watching the looting sums things up. Denise Bollinger, a tourist from Philadelphia, stood outside and snapped pictures [of the looting] in amazement.

�It�s downtown Baghdad,� the housewife said. �It�s insane. I�ve wanted to come here for 10 years. I thought this was a sophisticated city. I guess not.�

Another article I feel that is a must read. Numbers

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:51 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I'm signing off for now, cause I am so upset right now at what is going on in N.O.. in regards to all the looting and no one stepping in to stop it.

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 03:58 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

I'm signing off for now, cause I am so upset right now at what is going on in N.O.. in regards to all the looting and no one stepping in to stop it.

I think... just THINK... that manpower is limited and they are more interested in saving lives than saving 'stuff'....

One thing to consider... that video is being taken of looters and that video will aid in their being arrested and punished at a later time.

As disturbing as this is, Stuff can be replaced, human life cannot...

just my 2 cents..

rmbjoe1954

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:12 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

President Bush provided a glimpse of what the death toll may be when he stated that the number was 'sobering' at a news conference prior to his return to Washington. All efforts must first be made to rescue and provide some decent standards of living for the survivors like creating long term tent cities.

Everything else is secondary for now - like the price of fuel and jobs, etc.

Big Kahuna

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:17 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Dont know if arverybody has seen it but on the CFHC main page latest news, there is a link to Mark Sudduth video footage from GP. Unbelieveable!!!

http://www.hurricanelivenet.com/katduring.wmv
http://www.hurricanelivenet.com/aftermath.wmv
http://www.hurricanetrack.com

mojorox

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:21 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Just got a message on the answering machine from a BIL who lives in Biloxi but above I 10 . He just said the house is gone and his car is gone but he and the dog are ok

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:30 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Dont know if arverybody has seen it but on the CFHC main page latest news, there is a link to Mark Sudduth video footage from GP. Unbelieveable!!!

They should show scenes like these before future hurricanes hit. Then maybe people won't be tempted to ride out the storm. I know a number of the people had no choice since they lacked funds or vehicles to get out. Seems there should be some sort of system in place to get these people to shelters or out of the cities. Couldn't AMTRAK or Greyhound be used to get people with no transportation out of evacuation areas and to shelters in other towns?

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:31 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

"I'm signing off for now, cause I am so upset right now at what is going on in N.O.. in regards to all the looting and no one stepping in to stop it. "

Honestly, there is no place to put the looters! They can't get them to jail. Too many more important things to do then gather up a bunch of low lives and stand guard over them. They will get what they deserve in due time. They always do!

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:32 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Thank God! That's awesome news! He's got is life and that's the most valuable thing.

Lake Toho - Kissimmee

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:35 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Well we shall see what President Bush does. I was down in Miami for Andrew and saw what his father did not do. So I am hoping the son will be different. Its odd that the federal government removed almost 75% of their funding for New Orleans Pumps and Levy systems. Global warming and the straightening of the Mississippi River are contributing causes to the current situation. While straightening the river was great for big business, without the silt provided by the meandering Mississippi, barrier islands and/or wetlands cannot be sustained and have diminished dramatically over the years. These barrier islands normally act as buffers for hurricanes,etc.

Well enough of being on a political soap box, I feel very bad for everyone in that area. Hurricanes are not a force to be messed with.. Hopefully this is an eye opener.

Looters are secondary and frankly a nuicance, though a nice story for the media. However, what is concerning to me is the reports I hear on the media about houses that are underwater except the roofs. There are a lot of one story houses, and you see many of them up to their roofs in water. Many people stayed in their homes, and now are stuck in the crawl space in their roofs. With the temperatures in the 90's those people must be suffering big time. So whenever you see houses with water up to the roof on television, there maybe people in the crawl space of those roofs.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:37 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Agree with you whole-heartedly. If everyone that could have left would have, it wouldn't be near as tragic as it's going to be. I heard so many interviews about hype and what not. Many just plain weren't leaving. Sadly, the kids pay the price of parental ignorance. However, they stayed and now they are in big trouble. Lets get as many out as we can and pray that a horrible leason has been learned and will be remembered for every other hurricane that comes to the shore.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 04:58 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Unfortunately the looting will only get worse. In Miami and Homestead Fla (after Andrew) people were looting, fighting, killing, etc...over goods, supplies, water, ice, you name it. I live on the west coast and everyday for some time after the storm they had live reports from that area and i gotta tell ya - it was chaos. The national guard was there and helped setup the now infamous "tent city". After a while the looting and price gouging stopped, but not until the national guard stepped in. You think it's bad now with the flooded streets, wait until the water recedes and the looters have full access. Soon, if not already, they (the looters) will venture into homes and start carrying out peoples priceless possesions, clothes, anything of use and or value. This is how it went in Fla in 1992 for the first week or two after Andrew. I agree with most on here that right now the authorities main concern should be to save the living and recover the dead. The looters will meet their doom one way or another. As i read articles about the looting, i find it funny that law enforcement said looters would be treated "ruthlessly" - perhaps that was propaganda to disuade people from doing it. Obviously that was their initial intention because they are not doing anything about it - they are stealing stuff right under their nose.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:01 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Steve from Metairie apparently made it out alive. Here is a post on S2K about him.

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=72461

Great news that he survived, but unfortunately it is not unscathed.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:04 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

"said looters would be treated "ruthlessly"

Actually, I believe that was one of the Mayors in Mississippi! When I saw him say it I had to laugh. I think he meant it..LOL! Not sure what is happening there as far as looting though. I think it has turned out so badly that looting may not be on his mind either.

ShanaTX

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:05 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

The water won't recede in New Orleans - not in the areas inside the levees. It has to be pumped out. Sounds like the plan will be for all residents currently in the city to be evacuated out well before then

Surreal...

FelixPuntaGorda

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:08 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I went through Charley last year & you can believe me when I say that looters are the least of their problems right now. I know it's disturbing to watch, but on the scale of what the future holds for the victims of Katrina, looters will barely measure.

We were so lucky to have avoided the flooding here last year. Food, water, ice, medical help - all had a place to be disbursed. We had so much help here, so fast, that it was truly amazing. But we still had dry land & highways in & out of here.

Over a year later we still have "FEMA Village" with over a thousand people living there in trailers. Over 140 businesses (I believe that's a correct number) will never open again, leaving owners & employees without income. Inexpensive housing was all but eliminated, so even if those people do find jobs they won't be able to afford to live here.

I'm sorry, I'm babbling. This is bringing back all the terror & frustration, which will never really leave me.

I don't think that anybody, even those of us in this area, can really imagine how bad this is going to be. Please, donate any money that you can to the Red Cross or other charity. If you believe in prayer, say a prayer for the victims, because their nightmare is only beginning.

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:14 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

CNN reporting they are evacuating the refugee centers..

JMII

(Weather Master)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:23 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I too remember the looting during Andrew. Just keep in mind in both cases the areas hit (Homestead / downtown NO) were lower income sections of the surround cities so these people were in bad shape already. Now that still does not make it right, but its a fact.

Right now saving lifes is more important then someone stealing a TV, afterall where are they going to plug it in? The big problem with looting is it's one of reasons listed as to why people don't want to leave thier homes when a storm is approaching.

Also after Andrew for every looting story you heard about there were several stories about people helping each other, donations by the truckload arriving daily and the overwhelming support for organizations like the Red Cross to your average Joe just showing up with his pickup truck full of ice in an effort to help.

Lysis

(User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:24 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

I would like to 2nd that, Felix, JMII� not to focus on what I went through along time ago�

But the aftermath is truly the worst part of any hurricane� especially in a situation like this. I am not sure many people realize this, but therein lies the true hell.

However, I am afraid that this is really non-comparable to Charley, and in some ways, even Andrew. The demographics, the population, the shear difficulty in actually getting aid to the area� it all serves to make this an exponentially worse beast, if that can be believed. Watching this video� I am physically becoming sick.

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:25 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Looting deserves consequences.

Unless the incursion of water is stopped, justice will likely visit the N.O. looters in ways best not imagined.

WhitherWeather

Thunderbird12

(Meteorologist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:25 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

It does a disservice to the whole "global warming" issue to say that it "contributed to" or caused a singular weather event like an intense hurricane, especially when the event has just happened and no comprehensive studies have been done regarding the storm. Any contribution of climate change would be in the frequency of such events over an extended period of time (and even then natural cycles in activity would have to be accounted for), not for a single event. It seems like someone in the media brings up global warming every time there is a significant weather event, but making false cause/effect assertions only gives those in the habit of automatically dismissing climate change concerns more fodder for their arguments.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:30 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Well, you don't know for sure what the income level is for the people stealing stuff in N.O. They already said that most of the people who didn't leave were people who didnt have cars and or the money to leave. I can see people taking food or beverages, but i have seen pictures of people taking other stuff. I am not going to get into it with you, but the people in NO looting are NOT middle/upper income people! They are thiefs who wait for something of this magnitude so they can cash in on it. And believe me, when things clear up, they will sell that TV, VCR, DVD player, gold watches, etc.......anyway, nuff of this.

nandav

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:38 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

It DOES bring back some of what we went through with Charley.. only SO much worse. At least many of us still had jobs ... and we didn't have to drive too far away to get to "real" stores and McDonald's etc. and when it was over, it was over ... no rising flood waters to contend with. Even with that, it brings back that whole anxiety of .. where were we going to live? What were we going to do? We couldn't stay in our house .. and were fortunate enough to get a room in a hotel not too far away. We spent the first week just packing up things and wondering what we were going to do with them. That whole uncertainty of "what happens next"? There's no book to guide you..not really. I can only imagine what it must be like for so many of them ... the numbers are staggering and hard to even wrap your mind around...

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:38 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

CNN says an oil tanker ran aground and is leaking. Does anyone know where or if it is leaking into the same water that's flooding the city? (Yikes!)

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:40 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Haven't heard about that yet, but if you look at pictures and video of the flooded areas, you can clearly see fuel/oil already in the water.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:43 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Wow, amazing video on CNN. Prisoners being removed from a flooded jail near downtown New Orleans. Frightening situation.

Edit: the officials seem to have a good grip on this right now

meto

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:43 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

this is a hurricane site people can talk about both. and i havent heard that those waves will be fish spinners, they are well south.

disneyfanfl

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:51 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

My heart and money will be reaching out to those in the hard-hit areas, so I'm glad to see all of the news and updates. However, I believe it's appropriate to continue to discuss other tropical activity. The mods can feel free to delete this post if they need to.

The NHC 5pm advisory hints that those two waves may not be waves for long. TD14 could form in the next day or so and TD13 appears to be regenerating. We always hope they dissipate or spin fish, but until then we'll keep an eye on them.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATWOAT+shtml/302126.shtml

errorcone

(Registered User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:53 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Wow, amazing video on CNN. Prisoners being removed from a flooded jail near downtown New Orleans. Frightening situation.

Edit: the officials seem to have a good grip on this right now

If they had a good grip on it, the prisoners would never have been there in the 1st place.

There was a projected Cat 5 coming into NO. All of those prisoners should have been moved early. You move prisoners early because you don't want them in gridlock with the civilian population, and you move them to avoid a situation just like this. Yeah, I expect them to cope and come though. But this is not a good situation.

Lake Toho - Kissimmee

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 05:55 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

What I meant by Global Warming contributing to this event, relates to the flooding in New Orleans not the creation of a Hurricane. Everyone knows global warming has contributed to increased sea levels, and also in the warming of the oceans. However , "in my opinion", global warming and the straightening of the Mississippi river exacerbated the flooding caused by the hurricane.

I do not think Global Warming was the cause of this one weather event. However, I do feel that global warming maybe a contributor in the future (near or distant future, it doesnt matter) of increased events such as this, if we do not start paying attention to the environment. Thats all I was actually trying to state. I appreciate your critique which has enabled me to clarify my point of view.

Jeffmidtown

(Weather Guru)

Tue Aug 30 2005 06:06 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

According to http://www.wwltv.com they have reported that there will be a mass evacuation of the 4000 inmates in the New Orleans jail to other state facilities as well as 1000 inmates in Jefferson Parish as well.

Also WWL-TV is broadcasting from a makeshift room at their transmitter site as of late this afternoon.

Here in Atlanta, pretty much every place I went into today that had a TV on was watching CNN and people were just heartbroken about what New Orleans and the entire Gulf Coast states are going through.
Clear Channel radio has set up a website http://www.stormaid.com for more information and on how to help.

(Storm Tracker)

Tue Aug 30 2005 06:16 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

"Everyone knows global warming has contributed to increased sea levels, and also in the warming of the oceans."

I don't think that's accurate. I know many people including myself that don't buy into the global warming issue as it is stated by media and political parties. However, this is about Katrina so I'm returning to that topic.

I heard on one of the networks that a Navy unit was being sent to NO. Is that true?
Also, someone earlier stated that Jeb Bush had warned Florida about a gasoline shortage and possible rationing. Does anyone have a link to that or know if it's rumor? I know after last years hurricanes that was going around and turned out to be false.

(Meteorologist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 06:18 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

It's not entirely accurate, but that's another debate for a long time after this storm is gone & the cleanup has begun.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 06:34 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

Quote:

Couldn't AMTRAK or Greyhound be used to get people with no transportation out of evacuation areas and to shelters in other towns?

According to the WSJ, they were:

Quote:

One major area of concern was poor residents who lacked their own transportation. Mayor Nagin urged churches Sunday morning to arrange evacuations for those who might not have access to a car. He mentioned Amtrak and Greyhound as possibilities, but as time got scarce, such options grew more difficult. The mayor encouraged people leaving the city to pick up anyone they knew who didn't have means to evacuate, but acknowledged that many poor New Orleans residents lacked a clear way to get out.

New Orleans used city buses to help transport some people, according to Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. "I think enough was done" to get the roughly 100,000 New Orleans residents without access to a car out of the city in time, he said, adding that the only question he raised about the handling of the evacuation is whether the mandatory evacuation should have been called earlier.

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 06:51 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

The looters will meet their doom one way or another.

I'll repeat what I said before. Anyone out and about, wading around in that "water" in the streets of New Orleans, is asking for a very nasty death. Have the news reports shown the first corpse floated up from one of the well-known cemetaries yet? I haven't seen it but I expect to. The mosquitos are right now beginning to multiply and soon will be spreading disease among those out and about, looting or otherwise, in the city. I suspect what is happening is going to resemble one of those sci-fi movies where the impending victims go merrily about their business unaware that their fate is sealed.

There needs to be a massive public health effort to (1) get everybody out of the flooded areas whether they want to go or not, (2) innoculate them against the better known infectious diseases; (3) enforce sanitation measures (pure drinking water, use of safe toilet facilities etc); (4) suppress mosquito breeding by aerial spraying; (5) treating any illness that develops promptly.

Watch for the first reports of skin infections in a day or two followed by diarrheal diseases in 3 or 4 days. The looters are likely to find their booty not wofrth what it has cost them.

(Verified CFHC User)

Tue Aug 30 2005 06:53 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

For anyone who hasn't yet seen them, the aerial videos on the WWLTV web site (links under aerial photo on home page, at least as I type this) are compelling proof to me that most so-called media and even many emergency officials are speaking from a state of shock that hasn't yet allowed the impact of this, even just in N.O., to hit home. And as far as I know, the situation there is still on the deterioration curve. It hasn't bottomed. The eerie silence of the videos is the only appropriate commentary possible. I was thankful for no babbling head to evaluate what I was seeing.

WhitherWeather

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 07:03 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Quote:

heard on one of the networks that a Navy unit was being sent to NO. Is that true?

Just before the storm came ashore, I heard an interview with the 2nd (Atlantic) Fleet Commander (4-star admiral) who said they had an assault ship task force laying off Texas and ready to go in as soon as the storm was over. This type of ship looks like a small aircraft carrier and carries a 600-bed medical unit as well as a number of helicopters and can carry a large detachment of marines. Just after the 1989 earthquake here in San Francisco, they docked one at a city pier and provided housing for hundreds of people onboard. But the assault ship will be accompanied by an oiler (essentially, an oil tanker) and other ships. I have not yet seen evidence of these personnel other than I did see one report on CNN of an oil tanker pulling into NO with fuel for the generators being used all over town and wondered if that was a Navy oiler (they didn't show pictures so I couldn't tell).

Aside from that, Gulfport MS is a major Seabee (CB = (Navy) Construction Battalion) base and they would be ideal people to help with the cleanup and restoration of services. Seabee rates include construction electricians, heavy equipment operators and all the other construction trades. One assumes they will be employed all over the affected area.

(Weather Watcher)

Tue Aug 30 2005 07:11 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

from the WWLtv website:

"5:49 P.M. - (AP) WASHINGTON -- The Navy is sending three ships to the Gulf Coast with water and other supplies for those hit by Hurricane Katrina, but officials are urging service members not to try to return to their military bases in New Orleans. "

(Meteorologist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 07:12 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

New thread -- let's take discussion on over there, copying & pasting & picking up where we left off as needed. Thanks!

kapSt.Cloud

(Weather Hobbyist)

Tue Aug 30 2005 07:14 PM

Re: Katrina Aftermath

Sorry, moderators, but I read this site for current tropical weather info and all info about hurricanes and their nature. I'm with you guys wanting to keep on topic, but I had to respond to the so-called "Global Warming" postings!
Please, enough blaming of these hurricanes on "Global Warming"! Global warming has been refuted! See the following web-site... http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf42.htm
We are in an active cycle...check your history of past decades...including this one...
http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/historic/nws/images/wea00439.jpg
Also, the hurricanes of 1928 and 1935, etc.
The people that are screaming "Global Warming" are the same ones screaming a few years back about us going into a new Ice Age! Which is it?