MikeC
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| (Admin) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 02:48 PM |
Tropical Storm Lee Forms, No Threat to Land
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Earlier today, Tropical Depression 13 re-formed in the Atlantic. This afternoon, it became Tropical Storm Lee -- the season's 12th named storm -- but is generally projected to move out to sea and not intensify all that much.
The wave that almost became Tropical Depression 14 yesterday, referred to as 91L is also moving out to sea. Nothing of immediate concern to land areas.
A new wave referred to as 92L out in the far eastern Atlantic will also have to be watched over the next week.
The situation in Louisana, Mississippi, and Alabama continues to come to light, discussion on this is allowed here, but please use the disaster forum for information about specific areas You do not have to register to post in the disaster forum.
Discussion of other issues relating to Katrina (outside of the immediately affected area) like gas prices, the crazy gas lines, etc can be found here.
Event Related Links
General Links
Color Sat of Gulf
RAMSDIS high speed visible Floater of Storms
Graphic showing elevations of New Orleans
Emergency Management/County info
Gulf Coast Storm Alert Network
FloridaDisaster.org - Florida Emergency Management
Mississippi Emer. Management
State of Florida Division of Emergency Management/floridadisaster.org
Louisiana Emergency Management
Video/Audio Links
NOAA Weather Radio out of New Orleans
Hurricane City - Live Audio and Video
HurricaneTrack/Mark Sudduth HIRT Team
Television/Radio
WWL TV 4 (CBS Affiliate in New Orleans) - KHOU is streaming WWL TV as well HERE
ABC 26 TV (ABC Affiliate in New Orleans)
WDSU Channel 6 (NBC Affiliate New Orleans)
Fox 8 (New Orleans)
WTIX 690 News Radio
WWL 870 News Radio
WTOK 11 / Missippii Alabama ABC Affiliate -- Jason Kelly is assisting Operations Here
Hurricane Now - Video reports from former CNN hurrican reporter Jeff Flock
Weathervine.com
Joseph Johnston's Mobile Bay Webcam
WKRG 5 in Mobile/Pensacola
WPMI Channel 15 from Mobile
Other
NOLA - Everything New Orleans
South Mississippi Sun Herald
Al.com - everything Alabama - Katrina Photos
AP and Reuters Photos from Katrina areas (Continually updated)
A few employees of DirectNic in the a Data Center still working on a diesel generator in central Business district are feeding out updates from downtown.[/url - [url=http://194.97.144.25/NewOrleans]Streaming Video from downtown New Orelans
Continual News update text from WWLTV In New Orleans
-- Looking for more Video/Audio links for the approach areas, please let us know if you have any links/information!
Lee
Animated model plots of T.S. Lee
Invest 91L
Invest 92L
| VolusiaMike |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 03:02 PM |
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Presidental Visit
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Carrying over a conversation from the previous board, someone mentioned that the President should visit as soon as possible.
The security concerns for a visitation by the President is something that the impacted area certainly does not need right now. It will take resources away from the Search and Rescue efforts that are so important right now! Anywhere the President visits will require a full shut-down of the area that will require a tremendous number of police officers to handle. Additionally, you have to secure any area that he plans to visit, or even may visit hours before the appearence.
Nothing against the President, but IMHO, he should stay in Washington and let the authorities handle the situation. As a last resort, do a fly over with no stops in the impacted areas.
Michael
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MikeC
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| (Admin) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 03:15 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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Here is the a google earth overlay of flooding for those that have it.
I'm mirroring it here (if you have google earth)
The source of this was This link
You can get google earth here
(Note: Google earth requires a relatively new machine with a 3d graphics card)
| nl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 03:16 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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:?: what is gonna be the reaction of the people on those bridges who cant get in the superdome and find out that the buses are only for the people in the superdome. i think we will have a major riot on our hands if they find out about the people in the dome. what are all the people that are out on these streets gonna go? and they just mentioned more rain is on the way there.
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Ed Dunham
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| (Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017)) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 03:20 PM |
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Re: Tropical Depression 13 Regenerates, No Threat to Land
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From the previous thread:
Remember that political opinion or comment is really not appropriate on this site.
Use the Disaster Forum for specific information or questions.
Finally, please try to eliminate one-liners - CFHC is not a chat room, it is a Forum-oriented site.
Thanks for your help.
ED
| zmdz01 |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 03:57 PM |
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Storm Surge
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Mets/Mods:
I have a question about storm surge from Hurricane Katrina. Was the storm surge above the forcasted height? I'm thinkin that the storm surge was higher than predicted because of the surge's momentum from the time that Katrina was a Cat 5 storm. I realize that the height of the storm surge is related to wind speed and the coastal geography. I'm wondering if the surge was under estimated by citizens because it was "only" a Cat 4 storm hours before landfall, when in reality, the storm surge height was "lagging" behind the sustained wind speed due to the momentum of the storm surge.
If you understood my babble, you're better than most people. I know what I'm trying to say, but it doesn't always come out clearly.
Marcus
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 04:30 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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I think your explanation is likely correct. It seems scientifically sound that momentum would carry the water some time before the level matched what we would typically call a Cat 4 surge. This coupled with the natural funneling effect provided by coastal features like Mobile Bay likely helped to cause a surge higher than what the lay person would have expected. I imagine though that the experts new quite well how much surge was possible and tried to spread the word the best they could. However, it never fails that people think they can ride these things out.
| tpratch |
| (Moderator) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 04:31 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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The surge that builds up with large storms heading in the same general direction, tends not to dissipate very quickly. The drop to Cat 4 may have stopped building that surge, but it most certainly did nothing to diminish what had already formed in the prior 36 hours.
You'll probably get a more lengthy exposition from the mets, but that's the short of it
As for what was expected, I can't speak eloquently about what other people think, but I'm pretty sure the mets never backed down from 20+ foot estimates of surge.
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 04:34 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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you are correct...pretty much the same thing happened last year with ivan...cat iv or v storm surge, even though ivan was "only" a cat iii at landfall...when these huge monsters spin up, they push their surge well ahead of them...this is why also, charley's surge was really only that of about a cat ii, even though he landfalled as a iv...didn't have enough time to spin up a huge surge and was a relatively compact little cane (albeit a strong one)
| bobbutts |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 04:39 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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I have the same question as zmdz01
It does appear at least to me that the surge is significantly delayed compared to the winds. During Charley the 13-18' surge that Saffir-Simpson says come with a cat 4 simply were not there. Probably more like a cat 2 6'-8' (although this is not based on any official data). And of course the surge delay going in the other direction with Katrina. Is it safe to say that generally the storm surge will reflect the strength and pressure of the storm some significant time before landfall rather than at landfall?
| HanKFranK |
| (User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 04:50 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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storm surge is like a bubble created on the ocean surface where it wells up due to dramatically lower air pressures near the center of the storm. air pressure is a large determining factor in surge, and katrina typically had a lower pressure than the winds supported. the pressure was around 920mb, which is a borderline 5, when it crossed the miss delta. when it reached the pearl river area, it was up to 930mb, still a solid category 4. forward speed of the hurricane also contributed to the surge height, as well as the large wind field, which contributed to the huge extent of coastline that was flooded. these factors working together created a surge uncommon in its height and extent along the coastline.
i honestly thought storm surge was done as the major killer in hurricanes. the last time an event like this, where a large number of people drowned by surge, was in 1969... camille. people were told that the ocean was coming up to get them. i don't know why someone would stay, with that prospect.
HF 1650z31august
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 04:51 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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Brett Farve just spoke on Fox News. I have gained a whole heck of a lot of respect for Brett. He was talking about the difficulties they were having as far inland as his home in Hattiesburg. Hopefully when those who still don't understand the gravity of the situation when they hear a guy like Brett say, "As bad as this was, the worst is yet to come," will realize the scope of this.
| HanKFranK |
| (User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 04:55 PM |
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parade of weenies
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td 13's forecast track looks sensible. it's competing with a sfc low to its nw that will keep it from strengthening a great deal, but i do think it will get a bit stronger than forecast.
91L should be classified. it's got a well defined surface low that's generating winds normally within the criteria of a depression.. but because the convection is currently sheared they're withholding classifying it. yet another case of the nhc ignoring a tropical system due to wind shear. the forecast is for shear to slack off in the next day or so, so this will probably develop in the long run.
92L is way the hell out, but its prospects are more for it to get further west in the long run. the synoptic pattern in the atlantic is shifting, and whereas a large trough is getting 13 and 91L, there should be more ridging and an ultimately further west track for this system. it may develop over the next few days.
eyeballing the potential pattern pulse system near the east coast... it keeps showing up in models, only in a variety of forms. most have it as a suspicious weak low... and are split on whether to drags out to sea, drifts across florida, or just bumbles around off the east coast. dependent on how progressive upper air features are and exactly where/what tries to form, any of these scenarios is possible. shouldn't show up for a couple of days, and is a highly theoretical feature right now.
HF 1655z31august
| Lisa NC |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:05 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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In one of the pictures, there are 68 school buses which are still in the city. Why didn't they drive bus filled with people out on Sat or Sunday. It's been said people didn't have means to leave, but here a so many buses that could have carried atleast 40 people per bus out.
Also Air force one was flying over NO a few minutes ago
| native |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:07 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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Mike - Thanks for sharing that. I downloaded Google Earth previously (when you had pointed it out in another forum) that overlay....there are no words to describe the image(s). I still have not fully digested the magnitude of Katrina's devistation.
Margie - Great news about your brother!
Great news about Rick and Frank and Steve
....just need to hear from Danny now. 
Glad to see that 13 and almost 14 are fish spinners. Hopefully 92L will follow their lead.
Question to the mets/mods or anyone more "in the know" than me: on Skeeto's map of 92L there are only 4 of the 7 models shown...the NHC (that I can figure out why it's not there) but what's the story with the absence of the GFDL and UKMET?
| Katie |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:07 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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I am so lost as to where to post this right now...
For those of you who know Beaujolis (spelling) she is a poster on here...I just got off the phone with her:
She is okay. She lives in Kenner, LA and is up in Jackson, MS with family. She has been told that it could be months before she can go home and is planning on relocating to TX for the time being. She is scared and worried. But, she is okay (which is the most important thing). She sends her very best to any of the members who experienced Katrina and is thinking of everyone.
Katie
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:11 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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that's great news about beau...at least in terms of her being alive...being homeless is such a scary prospect facing so many people...
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:13 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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Question: Storm Surge
If Katrina had winds over 145MPH upon landfall, what would be the speed of the storm surge that would later come ashore?
| tpratch |
| (Moderator) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:16 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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By the time the dome opened as a "last resort" shelter, it was far too late to bus anyone out.
Not to mention insurance issues, the fact that even 100 busses wouldn't have gotten a quarter of those ultimately headed for the Superdome out.
It's pretty easy to armchair quarterback what could've been done, but the fact remains, as late as the mandatory evac was, the NHC had NO in the cone for quite some time, and anyone living on a coastal state should know better than to not monitor the news when there's a named storm (or even better, to not ignore the news between June and November).
*EDIT
Storm surge moves ashore just forward of the eye at approximately the forward speed of the storm itself. Due to pressure gradients close to the eye, there tends to be a sudden build up of the most intense levels, but it's still more or less being "pushed" by the storm itself.
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:22 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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Just in:
Air Force One Flying Over Disaster Areas
| oil trader |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:29 PM |
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Tracking question
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Is there any explanation why track models behaved so well forecasting the diabolic path of Katrina except when she left Florida and got into GOM?
I mean, they predicted exactly the point when the storm turn left before the 1st landfall, also after Saturday morning they pointed NO despite same persistent opinions on very much eastern 2nd landfall.
However, how far Katrina went south in the GOM was not bought by almost anybody (money is not stupid and there was a pretty sell off in oil prices by Friday).
Do NO conditions make a powerful attraction for this type of phenomenon? I am asking this thinking about how worthy will be reconstruction efforts in this place.
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:31 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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Quote:
Brett Farve just spoke on Fox News. I have gained a whole heck of a lot of respect for Brett. He was talking about the difficulties they were having as far inland as his home in Hattiesburg. Hopefully when those who still don't understand the gravity of the situation when they hear a guy like Brett say, "As bad as this was, the worst is yet to come," will realize the scope of this.
I was born and raised in Wisconsin. You could never imagine the support the Packers get. Including 60,000 at their scrimmages. My point being, if Farve says send generators, food, Ice and whatnot it will be there shortly. If the Packers say jump, Wisconsin says "how High"?..LOL
| Ryan |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:36 PM |
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92L
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from the looks of the mdoel plots and such, it looks as if 92L will have to be watched, it is pretty far south..possibly a lesser antilles storm?..only time will tell
Good luck to all those others on the Gulf, thnaks for everything guys.
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:38 PM |
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Re: 92L
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Ryan
May god bless you.
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:41 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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Ya'll may think I'm nuts but I don't understand why they don't do more from the ground. Why not get a crap load of Jet skis and go house to house. It seems like a water vehicle like that could zip around house to house and start working on the people in the houses. Let the choppers get the people that managed to get out and on top. OK, I'm sure someone can explain why that's a crazy idea.
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 05:54 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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Where would you start, as well as where will they get the Jet-Ski's from. Anyway you look at it, still a logistical nightmare for those officilas in N.O.
| firestar_1 |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:04 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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Quote:
Ya'll may think I'm nuts but I don't understand why they don't do more from the ground. Why not get a crap load of Jet skis and go house to house. It seems like a water vehicle like that could zip around house to house and start working on the people in the houses. Let the choppers get the people that managed to get out and on top. OK, I'm sure someone can explain why that's a crazy idea.
LMAO......"Jet Skis".....now that is really funny.......let's see.....at what speed do you need to be traveling to be able to steer these things.......and I'm sure all the debris floating around in the flood waters will part a clear path as you fly through the area........
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:07 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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ROFL! It's just a thought. It's just frustrating watching from TV. I keep saying why don't they do this or that. Never thought about the steering aspect...lol. In all honestly, is there not something they could use on the water to get around?
| Rick on boat in Mobile |
| (Weather Drama Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:11 PM |
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Jet Ski's
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not a bad thought...but they are TERRIBLE on gas....and it would be hard to coordinate where they oughta go.
As well...would if you were on one...and you went by a house...and 5 people were there?...the temptation to "load up"...all that...
the navy hovercrafts....and the helicopters...are the best things....get as many as possible.....
It seems the logical thing to do.
I heard they are asking for volunteers...I'll look into that.
rumors of alligators.
The governor is right....EVACUATE the city...I mean...the sewer system is trashed....it's a nightmare...where are these people gonna go to the bathroom at?......
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:14 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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Yes,
And they are MK5 boats, the kind that EOD and Navy Seals use.
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:16 PM |
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Re: Jet Ski's
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The Navy Hovercrafts would not work, they are too large for that area. Not enough turn radius anywhere to manevuer them.
| NewWatcher |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:19 PM |
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Re: Jet Ski's
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strange since i heard they are bringing them (hovercrafts)
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:19 PM |
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Re: Jet Ski's
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If you want to know what a MK5 looks like, check out this link.
http://www.zodiacmarineusa.com/
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:22 PM |
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Re: Jet Ski's
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The hover craft you are talking about carry huge euipment on board them. That is why they are being delivered by the Navy on the Amhip ship in the Gulf now.
| naples |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:22 PM |
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Re: Jet Ski's
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I saw a row of Airboats that looked like they were headed for the city. Would these do a good job?
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:23 PM |
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Re: Jet Ski's
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This is what the Hover Craft looks like.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/ships/ship-lcac.html
| BobVee |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:24 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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I agree. The very shallow waters of this part of the gulf and the absence of a large barrier island formation contributed to this situation as with the large wind field and a straight in hit. This was deja vu. One can only assume that recent experience with Ivan and Dennis lulled them into complacency, something the NHC and others have warned about constantly.
| firestar_1 |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:24 PM |
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Re: Presidental Visit
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Quote:
ROFL! It's just a thought. It's just frustrating watching from TV. I keep saying why don't they do this or that. Never thought about the steering aspect...lol. In all honestly, is there not something they could use on the water to get around?
They are using the air boats now, but they are also asking others to stay away so they do not end up with more problems and injuries. I too wish they had some better way to make use of the additional boats people are offering to bring in to help...it seems to me they could use additional manpower. We had the same type of issues in Port Charlotte last year with people wanting to help and being asked to stay away in the beginning...
| BTfromAZ |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:28 PM |
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Re: Tropical Depression 13 Regenerates, No Threat to Land
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For those who, like my sister in FL who emailed me about it, love animals, one possible way to help out in the areas affected by Katrina would be a donation to the Humane Society of the US. To quote briefly from their web site https://secure.hsus.org/01/disaster_relief_fund_2005/step1/rXdzEFkK1kp5X
Quote:
In response to the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina, The HSUS has begun a massive relief effort to rescue animals and assist their caregivers in the disaster areas. Our highly trained Disaster Animal Response Teams are moving into Mississippi to begin a multi-state animal rescue and recovery effort. Our 38-foot Disaster Response Unit, along with other rescue vehicles affiliated with our teams, are fully stocked and on their way.
| Hootowl |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:28 PM |
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Re: Storm Surge
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Margie
So happy to hear about your brother. He is truly a hero!!!
Glad to hear about others on the board are o.k. too.
Can hardly stand to watch CNN. Seems like there is more bad news everytime I turn it on. Last I heard was it would take 12 to 16 weeks to get electricity in some areas. Saw pics of Slidell - how horrific. Haven't seen any pics of Pascagoula (sp?) yet - but have read info posted in the last thread.
We have had some bad news (not Katrina related) in the last day and am just now getting around to reading everything since 1pm yesterday. We went today and gave blood. They said they had a ton of people show up on Monday. Pretty fair amount today too. Hope that continues.
My best to all. Got things to take care of now. Hope to be back on tomorrow.
Dotty
| tashina |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:33 PM |
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storm tracks
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I have somewhat the same question as oil trader above. I having been reading this site with interest this season and have no meteorogical experience or training. I noticed that last season 2 hurricanes went into the Port St Lucie area - I had almost moved there that year and was glad I didn't!. I assume that was due to steering currents but I don't know how long conditions stay the same with the currents. Would New Orleans/Gulfport be more likely than normal to get a second hurricane that enters the gulf and if so, how long would that be added probability last?
Thanks for helping a beginner.
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:36 PM |
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Re: Jet Ski's
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True Rick, people really don't want to think about the sewage in the water. Betweeen the sewage, snakes, gators, fire ants, mosquitoes, corpses, blood, etc. in the water, the looters will certainly reap what they sow. I hope that it's a painful death for them.
CNN is finally telling the national audience that the death toll is likely in the thousands. I don't mean to be crass, but uhhh... duh. I think any of us could have told them that. It may not be a question of if it's hundreds or thousands, but thousands or tens of thousands. Once disease comes through, the violence caused by the storm, residual long term health effects, etc come into play, it certainly seems possible that it will be the latter. Remember. studies conducted before the storm were astronomical.
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:38 PM |
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Re: storm tracks
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Well, that all depends on the right conditions as for Front, Trough's, steering currents and a bunch of other factors that would put N.O in the path of another storm. Mother Nature will do what she wants, though the models were almost exact on their location, ie; being in the cone, so it is hard to say when or if another storm like Katrina, will ever hit N.O.
| BTfromAZ |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:45 PM |
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Re: Tropical Depression 13 Regenerates, No Threat to Land
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Came across this bit of info summarizing the status of the oil industry:
Quote:
about 1.4 million bpd of crude production -- about seven percent of domestic demand -- was still shut down and concerns about the lack of feedstock for refineries prompted the United States to offer to loan crude to companies to replace lost output.
The offer helped ease oil prices from record highs above $70, but U.S. crude still remained at a red-hot $69.70, down 11 cents.
Nine refineries with combined capacity of nearly 2 million bpd were shut down and four more were running at reduced rates. Three of the refineries in Louisiana are "under water," according to a U.S. senator.
Exxon Mobil said that restoring products pipeline and marine links, including Mississippi River traffic, was more important to it in boosting crude runs at its capacity-curbed Baton Rouge, Louisiana, refinery.
| Juls |
| (Registered User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:47 PM |
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Re: Jesafe in FL?
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I disagree that JAX would be safe from storms- especially with all that water.
Here is a site that happens to agree with that statistically. hurricanecity jax faqs
I do not think that anywhere in FL or gulf coasts (incl MS, AL, LA, TX) are safe. Every year, every day conditions are different. MANY conditions determine where a storm goes and how intense it gets.
I would have thought I was far enough inland to be safe - watching the news makes you question that.
Let's at least pray no more storms this season make it into the GOM
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:47 PM |
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Re: storm tracks
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Did anyone hear the CEO of the largest EMS and ambulance company in Louisiana on CNN? According to him, hospitals are virtually being "taken over," their command center just had the generator stolen off of the back of it, they've had an ambulance turned over ( what satisfaction do these people get out of rioting?), he says that they have to somehow get 100 babies out of a hospital as it is too dangerous in the city (I assume the same one they attempted to loot last night) and they expect tonight to be even worse. He was pleading for help.
It's amazing how this scenario resembles life after a nuclear bomb blast in the book Alas, Babylon (set right here in Central FL). In the book, they raise the problem of junkies looking for a fix unable to get it wreaking havoc trying to find something. With the number of drug users in N.O., I would be frightened if I were a hospital worker. From the sound of the man during the interview he was frightened. According to him, the Guard troops and police in the city are expecting the ambulance company and hospitals to take care of themselves?
| Wingman51 |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:48 PM |
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Requested Help
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This has probably already been posted here but I'll trust the Mods to remove it if it has:
Red Cross Reps just came throug our office asking for assistance in 3 areas as follows:
1.) Cash Donation
2.) BLOOD MAJOR NEED
3.) Volunteers - report locally and each individual area (in disaster are and outside) will give you alist of volunteer opportunities.
Margie - - Glad to hear that all came out OK with your brother PTL
| BTfromAZ |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 06:58 PM |
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Re: Requested Help
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Concerning blood donation: If you want to donate, you may want to wait a week or two. In disasters such as this, this is one of the first things most people think of doing and, as a consequence, a huge amount of blood gets donated in the first few days to a week. Then, those people can't donate again for some time. As a result, there is a huge supply of blood which expires at a single point in time and a limited supply of eligible donors a few weeks later. In several previous disasters (I'm think especially about the 1989 quake here in the Bay Area), much of the initially donated blood expired unused and had to be thrown out. Then there was a shortage.
As an MD, I pay attention to these matters.
| Wingman51 |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:05 PM |
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Re: Requested Help
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Thanks for that - - should have been more detailed - Red Cross is asking for sequenced donation for the next 21 to 28 days - so many people per day - just to avoid what you are talking about
| Anton Ross |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:06 PM |
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Levees
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I can certainly understand Mayor Nagin's frustration about the Levees and Army Corps of Engineers. Corps doesn't have what they need (or DIDN'T) to do what has to be done, though. I know those guys (my wife is a certified civil engineer) and they really try to do what's best, even when they have their hands tied.
One thing that needs to be made clear about the situation New Orleans is facing is that it was completely expected. Earlier this year FEMA ranked the potential damage to New Orleans (in terms of flooding) as among the three likeliest, most castastrophic disasters facing this country. Turns out they were spot on.
Unfortunately, the reality is that in general, funding for Corps construction has been on a downward trend for the past several years. In 2001, the New Orleans district spent $147 million on construction projects. When fiscal year 2005 wraps up Sept. 30, the ACOE expects to have spent $82 million, a 44.2 percent reduction from 2001 expenditures. Unfunded projects include widening drainage canals, flood- proofing bridges and building pumping stations in Orleans and Jefferson parishes. The ACOE also wanted to build levees in unprotected areas on the West Bank, but couldn't because of budgetary restrictions.
The Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes has seen their budget drained from $36.5 million awarded in 2005 to $10.4 million suggested for next year by the House of Representatives and the president.
At this point, I think this is all moot, given the situation.
I feel incredible sorrow for the Mayor, and for the rest of that part of the Gulf. Tragedy and travesty.
/Anton
| HanKFranK |
| (User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:16 PM |
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death toll
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it's speculative, but unbelievable. the new orleans death toll is being estimated in the hundreds, possibly over a thousand. forget camille. we've seen nothing of this scale in human loss since the 1928 okeechobee hurricane.
HF 1916z31august
| JoeF |
| (Registered User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:20 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Longtime reader first time poster. I have held back an now want to respond to this situation. The Mayor of New Orleans was well aware that it takes approx. 72 hours to evacuate New Orleans. They were being told this storm was heading towards them before that time. An evacuation order was not ordered. Approx 40-48 hours out the NHC is begging him to evacuate. He still does not order the evacuation. 24 hours out the President tells him he needs to. An evacuation goes in place less than 24 hours before this storm comes in. That is unaccepatble to me. Yes people by common knowledge need to make educated decisions but I still cannot get this out of my mind. They have been warned for so long that this was gonna happen. It seems as if they have never even planned for this. I pray for the people that have lost loved ones and the ones like me that have still no word on loved ones. I think some heads need to roll on this one and hopefully some hard lessons have been learned.
Frustrated and concerned,
JoeF
| NewWatcher |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:23 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Can you tell us where you got that info please?
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:26 PM |
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Re: Levees
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""I can certainly understand Mayor Nagin's frustration about the Levees and Army Corps of Engineers. Corps doesn't have what they need (or DIDN'T) to do what has to be done, though. I know those guys (my wife is a certified civil engineer) and they really try to do what's best, even when they have their hands tied."
Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that the MAIN levee breaks were not where the Corps did the work. What I've heard is the Corps area has some minor breaks but stood up well. Where the main breaks are is where the Corps were SUPPOSED to do the work but had the funding pulled and could not complete it. If I read your post correctly I think we are in aggreement. However, I've heard several times that the Corps are being wrongly blamed for something that they COULD have done right. Know what I mean?
| BTfromAZ |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:27 PM |
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Re: death toll
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HF: Tragically, I can't think why you call this death toll "unbelievable". I quite expected it and I think "over a thousand" may be conservative--try "thousands". Look at those houses in New Orleans as the helos fly over the rooftops. Consider that in every one of those attics may well be an exhausted, dehydrated senior with the sun beating down on that roof, no food, no water. Then consider all the houses that simply no longer exist in southern Mississippi and how many of them may have been occupied when they were "disappeared". When the water goes down and somebody checks those attics and they begin examining the debris in MS, I expect they will find many, many bodies.
| JoeF |
| (Registered User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:28 PM |
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Re: Levees
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It was stated all over the news and on this forum before the storm hit. I still don't understand why people continue to take up for the authorities in New Orleans. They have been warned for years that this would happened. They had a Cat 5 headng at them. I guess I am just used to the way they do things in Florida. Evacuations are ordered with appropiate time.
| NewWatcher |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:32 PM |
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Re: Levees
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I live in FL and I may be wrong, but I think the main reason we dont have
the deaths etc. is we havent had a Katrina...cept Andrew, which was horrible. People then didnt leave when ordered and even after last year
people wont leave next time either. I am not backing anyone, just wondered if this was something you knew or something you heard. I have
heard a lot of things, not always sure which ones to believe.
Lastly for me, it doesnt matter anymore what could or should have been
done so long as they do everything they can now for those who need it.
This was a "mother nature" tragedy that was gonna hit where it did, when it did, no matter whether we liked it or not.
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:32 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Joe, I totally agree. I heard an interview with the Mayor before he ordered it. He said he wasn't going to because he couldn't enforce it! Well woopity big balls if you can't enforce it. At least go on the record doing the right thing. However, honestly the people that stayed would most likely have stayed anyway.
| BTfromAZ |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:33 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Joe, have you seen "Earthquake" or "Deep Impact" or any other "disaster" movie? They played this one completely by the script: Brilliant scientist(s) warn government leaders of the onrushing danger and that they "have to evacuate". Government leaders fear "mass panic" and hold off until the last minute, thereby creating the panic they feared. Disaster happens exactly as the scientist)s) predicted, killing huge numbers (shown being hit by falling debris, tidal waves, flood waters, whatever).
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MikeC
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| (Admin) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:34 PM |
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Sat images
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High res satellite photos of mississippi/alabama hit areas
http://alt.ngs.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM
| BTfromAZ |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:35 PM |
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Re: Levees
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FL ain't "the Big Easy". I used to celebrate the N.O. attitude. I hope that someday I can again.
| JoeF |
| (Registered User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:38 PM |
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Re: Levees
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I agree about people are gonna stay no matter what but it has been documented that New Orleans takes 72 Hours to evacuate and this evacuation was not put in effect with a huge storm headed their way cause they wanted to wait and see if it would turn east. Well it went a little east and still things ended up in a worst case scenario. I am just frustrated an Mayor Nagin now passing blame on the Corp's engineers is not right.
| Jamiewx |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:39 PM |
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Tropical Storm Lee
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Just reviewed some of the prior posts to make sure i am not mentioning anything that has been mentioned. NRL is displaying 13L.Lee. I guess we have TS Lee at 5pm then, and thankfully no threat to land.
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:41 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Let me comment on that,
First: The area in N.O. that was proned for flodding is a poor district, meaning alot people who if made the decision to evacuate, couldn't because they were unable, due to the fact that no one own a car to transport them out of the city.
Secondly:
We are not planners, so we should not make judgements on what and when city officials make the decsion to evacuate. I agree with you, that heed the warning was issued along time ago. I believe it would cost the city of N.O. a ton of money to evacuate all the citizens out of town. Money that the city did not have.
Third and Last:
We as citizens of this great Nation of ours need to behind them now. They need each and everyone of us regardless of what and when things were ordered. I believe in the coming months and years, this will be a lessons learned for all. Hopefully, the next one will be years, and years away. Maybe never.
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:42 PM |
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Re: Levees
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"I am just frustrated an Mayor Nagin now passing blame on the Corp's engineers is not right. "
Agreed. The only problem with the Corps is they are expensive. However, you can buy a cheap truck or a Mercedez. Guess which one will last longer.
| Katie |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 07:57 PM |
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children of the disaster
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OMG, my heart is breaking. I am brought to tears watching Fox News right now. They saw a woman on the interstate sitting with her three year old child who is sick and basically passed out in her lap from dehydration and exhaustion. The news crew tossed down water to her .... having a child that age I want to be there to help. This is so horrible. I can't even imagine having a child who needs help and not being able to get it. Gasp. I need to go home love on my daughter and be thankful for everything - I will never again complain about my 12 days without power after Charley last year. Never.
| Anton Ross |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 08:00 PM |
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Re: Levees
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emackl: Yes, we're in agreement.
They didn't have the fuding to make the fixes they wanted, and knew were needed. And yes, I believe they are being wrongly blamed, and this seems to be verified by what I am reading and hearing from the major news networks.
I'm still looking into specifics...
/Anton
| abyrd |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 08:13 PM |
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Re: Levees
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There is no reason to blame New Orleans officials. Here is a link to the forecast advisory for 72 hours before landfall. The NHC was calling for a 90 knt storm to be at 86.5 on Monday morning. That's a category two over 180 miles to the east.
No one should call for a full evacuation on that report. The first time they showed New Orleans as a target was late Friday night, just over 48 hours until landfall.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2005/mar/al122005.fstadv.011.shtml?
Edit: Friday night was about 60-63hr prior to actual landfall, not just over 48hr. You can make the argument that the period of reasonable conditions to get people out was closer to 48hr, however. --Clark
| tpratch |
| (Moderator) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 08:36 PM |
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Re: Levees
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abyrd - you just made the mistake the NO folks must have. You concentrated on a single point.
If I recall, 72 hours (or more) out, one of the models was calling for an obscenely low pressure out of Katrina. Read the thread from around there and you'll see the mets here mentioning that no model really grabs hold of intensity very well, but if they catch something big, it tends to come to light.
Point being, they were warned beyond whatever the public announcement was. The NHC does lots of communication behind closed doors for public officials.
| native |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 08:39 PM |
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Re: Levees
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I think the only one who should really take the blame is Mother Nature. The "cone of error" is just as the name suggests...it's not called the "cone of absolute certainty". The MET's and those at the NOAA will tell us...while they've made incredible strides with science and the models, etc. They still say EVERY time...these are hard to track, storms are not points that travel straight lines and they certainly cannot "predict" any hiccups and/or jogs that Mother Nature may throw into the equation. The NHC and all others involved did they best job they know how and it was a fine one IMO. What should NOT have been a surprise to anyone on the Gulf Coast was her intensity. She right quickly started to gain strength when she got into the Gulf...she was a CAT 3 while still fairly "far" south and the fact that she hit just east or west of here and there shouldn't make a hill of beans to anyone...she was powerful and she was BIG. Wind field was what?? 230 miles! People within 230 miles on either side of that "cone" should have been glued to the sets.
| abyrd |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 08:48 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Yes, Clark is right, to have started the evacuation at 60 hrs is much better than 48 hrs.
But, as to a model showing a hit at 72 hrs out, a city can't rely on a model or two. If I evacuated everytime a model showed a hurricane coming near Orlando, I'd evacuate at least twice a year.
My point is that 72 hrs out, they knew it was a possiblity, but it was no where near enough information to evacuate over 1 million people when the NHC's official forecast wasn't even calling for tropical storm force winds in New Orleans. (Not focusing on a point, the forecast had TS force winds 100 miles from the center. NO is at approximately 90. Each degree is approximately 60 miles. 90-86.5=3.5x60=210 miles. At 72 hrs, NO was officially forecast to be 110 miles from minor tropical strom force winds and 210 miles from the center of the storm. At 72 hours out, New Orleans wasn't in the cone of error! http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2005/KATRINA_graphics.shtml)
Either way, hindsight is wonderful. I'm sure they wish they had forced an evacuation at the hint it may go to New Orleans, but don't we always preach here to look at the models, remain aware of the possibilities, but when it comes down to it, listen to the NHC forecast?
| Rick on boat in Mobile |
| (Weather Drama Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:03 PM |
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NO evacuations
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hindsight is easy.
IF New Orleans knew that a natural disaster like this was possible...(they did)..and if they knew they might not get more than a 48 hour warning in a worst case scenario....(they knew)...then money, buses, and a contingency plan could have been done long before (it wasn't)
they knew, for instance, that 20% of the population could NOT get out...poverty...etc....
the problem is that the money to have that capacity was not there...and the priority was not there....
If people before Katrina tried to get New Orleans to spend the money to develop a system to evacuate the city....who would listen?...who would legislate that?...the money wasn't there....would the federal government have done it?...
and interestingly....eliminate one aircraft carrier...and more than enough money was there...more than enough....
it's a question of wanting to build a city to protect against disasters...or not wanting to....
human error at the government level...and no one person is responsible...just another example of misplaced priorities...
plenty of money for bombs and guns and aircraft carriers....
not enough to protect a city against a terror they knew was coming one day....
so blaming them now is pointless. They won't learn....when Pompeii's smoke billowed...and fumed...many heard it..many knew the Volcano might explode.....did they evacuate? No...why?....
the old adage...
It won't happen to me
| Takingforever |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:05 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Dennis, Ivan....Both of them were pretty much the same as Katrina with NO being in the Cone of error. Look what happen there.
This is what happens when forecast is so cloudy up to the last 72 hours. Hell I didn't even know it was up to 175 MPH till Sunday afternoon. This was right after the day before on Saturday afternoon on TWC people where saying it wasn't that bad and that they been through Ivan last year and then Dennis and that the forcast didn't even have any rain or that streong of wind in the forcast....
These where people in MOBILE. So yeah you can blame who ever you want to for what happen, but the NHC goes through the same stick with Dennis and Ivan, and only we weather nerd really saw the true danger of this monster through the press released that I doubt 80% of the people read i nthe first place.
| abyrd |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:14 PM |
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Re: Levees
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I hope it didn't sound like I was blaming the NHC. They do a great job. I remember early on, before Katrina hit Florida, the NHC referencing the GFDL model and saying they hope it didn't come true. It was that model that was forecasting a southwest turn and a large swing in the gulf.
My point was that city officials had a 72 hour model to evacuate. They shouldn't be chastized for not forcing evacuation at 72 hours because the official forcast was for the storm to not even come close at that time.
Rick, I have to agree with you. Due to the unpredictable nature of storms, governments should have plans to evacuate at 72, 48 & 24 hours and figure out how much it costs and get it done. But, look at Pompeii today. Seven million people live around the volcano that will blow again one day.
| jbmusic |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:27 PM |
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Re: Levees
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At this point we can blame whoever we want but it is not going to make a bit of difference, to the thousands if not millions of people who are now homeless, or missing loved ones. All they are concerned with is who is going to help meet my immediate needs. Water, food clothing and shelter out of anymore harm.
I came on here this afternoon hoping to find people talking about different ways people are pitching in to help, People helpig others locate loved ones they have not heard fomr yet , talking about different events that are being set up to help raise funds to get these people food and water. Hopeing to find a place where people could join in and go to the distater area to help out, when it is safe to go in and lend a hand.
Please lets concetrate on ways for us to help and once everyone is cared for we can debate whose fault it is and what should be done different when they rebuild NO.
| JulieTampa |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:27 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Does anyone have stats for people who tried to evacuate out of NO but couldn't because of traffic? I think I recall hearing on Sunday evening that the traffic had eased and was moving along just fine, but it may have been Mississippi and Alabama coastlines, not New Orleans. I'm leaning towards some opinions that most that stayed would have even with a 72hour evac period.
| Takingforever |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:29 PM |
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Re: Levees
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And don't even start on Seattle and there MAJOR problem name Rainier.
But it won't happen to them...
No it didn't sound liek you were blaming the NHC. Nor am I blameing NHC. They are doing what they are suppose to do, play Chicken Little. Be it Miami, NO, Biloxi, Houston, Tampa, or Kitty Rock, it is there duty to make a Catagory 1 sound like a Catagory 5. And if it misses the spot it was forcast(Charley to Tampa) it isn't there fault because they have the Cone of error and that anyone in it should of been out of that cone long ago. But see that is something the NHC gets blamed for, a slight turn at the last second and everything changes. Hurricanes are NOT a forecast nail down, nor will they ever will be when they come in so many different sizes. As the weather channel did on Sunday, compared Katrina(Large, widespread damaged, slow turns, uncontrolled path) to Charley(Small, narrow damaged, quick turns, uncontrolled path) you can see that Hurricanes are all unique and that we can never know what they will do when they interact with us.
I'm always greatful that the NHC plays Chicken Little, I just wish more didn't see it as the boy who cried wolf.
And on the topic of LEE, it's very intresting that a second storm that has "Died" and "reborn" itself as a Tropical Storm...Luckly Lee isn't going to be a Katerina..or lets hope not.
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:36 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Sad to say it, but the rumors are flying. My mother-in-law just called from Clermont, FL to warn us that after today there will be a two day freeze on gas and that lines were long where she is. My wife took this as truthful and began to panic but I know better. It just stinks that all this talk will cloud the truth at a time like this. Right now, I'm just trying to decide if I should still take my short vacation to Jacksonville this weekend that I was hoping for.
| Takingforever |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:41 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Two day freeze? No, but from what is happening ,the Eastern Oil pipe line is closed, so alot of gas stations are rising prices to 3.25 and limiting peopel ot 10 dollars a gas(Reports from Alanta on CNN) so I can see why peopel are panicing.
Reminds me of that movie Oilstorm on FX eariler this year....scary.
| trinibaje |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:42 PM |
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Rick
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I am so busy at work and still don't have any cable TV or any type of TV at home from our brush with Katrina... so i apologize if this has been addressed but has anyone heard from Rick on the boat???? I know there are other posters who are missing, how about them.
Thanks for the update... my heart is heavy
| Magic Hat |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:45 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Hi, Everyone!
WE SURVIVED!!!
I don't know how hight the winds got in Lucedale, MS, but we lost one small crabapple, both big oaks are thinner, but still standing. House took the wind like a champ. We didn't have either camper tied down and they were fine. now, just outside our property line, trees are down, roofs are gone, mobile homes are off their supports or destroyed. We have some rain damage in the kitchen/dining room. That's all. Power and phones are out, but we have propane and relatives have water.
We're in AL now looking for food and diapers for the kids. Locals have cleared one road so we can get our big rig out. I expect the power will be out up to a month because we're down a dead end road. We're getting the kids set up and then we're going back to work, hopefully delivering needed supplies back to the disaster area.
All we can do is praise our Lord for protecting us.
God be with all,
Lu
| Rick on boat in Mobile |
| (Weather Drama Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:45 PM |
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if the levees hadn't been built?
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interesting post from the news....
Vulnerable city
Experts have warned about New Orleans’ vulnerability for years, chiefly because Louisiana has lost more than a million acres of coastal wetlands in the past seven decades. The vast patchwork of swamps and bayous south of the city serves as a buffer, partially absorbing the surge of water that a hurricane pushes ashore.
Experts have also warned that the ring of high levees around New Orleans, designed to protect the city from floodwaters coming down the Mississippi, will only make things worse in a powerful hurricane. Katrina is expected to push a 28-foot storm surge against the levees. Even if they hold, water will pour over their tops and begin filling the city as if it were a sinking canoe.
After the storm passes, the water will have nowhere to go.
In a few days, van Heerden predicts, emergency management officials are going to be wondering how to handle a giant stagnant pond contaminated with building debris, coffins, sewage and other hazardous materials.
“We’re talking about an incredible environmental disaster,” van Heerden said.
He puts much of the blame for New Orleans’ dire situation on the very levee system that is designed to protect southern Louisiana from Mississippi River floods.
Before the levees were built, the river would top its banks during floods and wash through a maze of bayous and swamps, dropping fine-grained silt that nourished plants and kept the land just above sea level.
The levees “have literally starved our wetlands to death” by directing all of that precious silt out into the Gulf of Mexico, van Heerden said.
It has been 40 years since New Orleans faced a hurricane even comparable to Katrina. In 1965, Hurricane Betsy, a Category 3 storm, submerged some parts of the city to a depth of seven feet.
Since then, the Big Easy has had nothing but near misses. In 1998, Hurricane Georges headed straight for New Orleans, then swerved at the last minute to strike Mississippi and Alabama. Hurricane Lili blew herself out at the mouth of the Mississippi in 2002. And last year’s Hurricane Ivan obligingly curved to the east as it came ashore, barely grazing a grateful city.
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:45 PM |
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Re: Levees
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I was thinking that just this morning about Oil Storm. Freaky and devastating if things work out like that. Personally, I don't know how my wife and I could handle gas at rates as how as they are forcasting. We already limit our consumption but it's taking a huge bite out of our budget. I just wish I had better forseen such a hike before we went out and financed some new furniture and the like.
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:46 PM |
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Re: Rick
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Quote:
I am so busy at work and still don't have any cable TV or any type of TV at home from our brush with Katrina... so i apologize if this has been addressed but has anyone heard from Rick on the boat???? I know there are other posters who are missing, how about them.
Thanks for the update... my heart is heavy
Rick was posting earlier today. I can't remember exactly what he said but the important message is that he is okay.
| trinibaje |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:48 PM |
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Re: if the levees hadn't been built?
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Oh good Rick you are safe and posting.... you have been in my thoughts.. glad to know you are ok...
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:50 PM |
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Re: if the levees hadn't been built?
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I went back and copied Rick's first post from this morning. I've attached it here:
"Back at work today....
Dodged a bullet. This was an unbelievable storm...you can't imagine....have to see the news...and it's worse than that...gas lines here...power out in most places. But power is being restored.
All the coast of Mississippi has been wiped clean......completely....
Dauphin Island, south of me 20 miles....lost 90% of their homes
My boat is inland about 15 miles. Sustained bridge damage, popped the radar off, and broke my steering wheel topside. No big deal. Boat did well...the storm surge jammed the boat into the roof....
but across the river....heavy devastation. Turner Marine....lost almost ALL of their sailboats...piled on top of one another...(those that weren't thrown up river 2-3 miles...)
but Mobile, all in all had less wind damage than Ivan...but the storm surge was somewhere in the 20' range...and downtown Mobile had water ...but not like New Orleans...not close.
Probably hundreds of thousands of boats,....gone.
Had that storm kicked right just 50 miles...and the story would be a little different.
New Orleans will NEVER be the same....period...
Entire coast of Mississippi...all the beautiful Antebellum homes....GONE....
just sad......depressing...and the part that hurts are the lives lost. NO REASON to stay...some lady in the gas line yesterday...told me her parents called from Gulf Port....(they were about 4 blocks from the beach) and they were scared and crying..because they were in ankle deep water.....and it was rising....this was 4-5 hours BEFORE the storm hit...and they said..."we can't leave now...it's too late"....
she was wondering what happened to them...I didn't say a word. but a wall of water 30' was on the way...and she couldn't imagine that...and I wasn't gonna tell her....
WHY would people stay?...I can't understand that...
they won't now.
anyhow...I'm out of words...but the storm I knew was coming one day..the one we ALL knew was coming....came.
there will be more of them...and we have to build smarter...and wiser. "
| Anton Ross |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 09:57 PM |
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New Orleans is a Tough town
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I just found out that one of my favorite restaurants (and one of my bars) is STILL OPEN!
Truly amazing, the French Quarter is.
The Oceana Grill (a seafood place...amazing food) is still serving up warm beer and gumbo and BBQ shrimp. Apparently they survived, and are cooking on gas griils. Johnny White's (NEVER closes) is still apparently open as well, and selling their goods for LESS than they used to.
That is why I love N'ahlins so much.
Story here: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050831/lf_afp/usweatherfood_050831004814
Wow.
Thought I'd chuck in some positive news, since much of what we're seeing/hearing/reading is so negative.
/Anton
//Hungry for good gumbo now
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 10:05 PM |
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Re: New Orleans is a Tough town
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Speaking of fuel supply issues... I'm watching the local NBC news out of Orlando and Orange county announced this afternoon that they will no longer provide bus transportation for field trips, sports teams and other extracurricular activities until next week or longer. Furthermore, they are saying that unless deliveries of fuel resume soon, they will cancel all bus services to get kids to and from school as early as Friday. As it stands, they are only guaranteeing transportation for tomorrow at this point.
| Takingforever |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 10:06 PM |
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Re: New Orleans is a Tough town
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So no wonder the french quarter is on fire....People need gumbo.
Just looking at CNN, many are talking about how Ivan and Dennis and Francis and Jannie and even Charley all had things to normal in a matter of days, this storm aftermath will take months.
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 10:18 PM |
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Re: New Orleans is a Tough town
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Also... Seminole and Volusia county governments plan to ration gas to their governmental vehicles. No driving for training purposes and no driving for work that can be put off until a later time. Source: WESH.
| bamffl |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 10:39 PM |
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Re: New Orleans is a Tough town
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Mods, I don't know if this is the right place for this, but I just got the following from my cousin. He was in Mobile Bay and is okay, but his buddy (listed at the end of the email) lost several friends and employees, in addition to his home, business and marina. They are turning right around though, and going in to help with the recovery efforts (FEMA approved.)
Here's his email, but his phone call went into a *whole* lot more detail...
Quote:
To anyone with access to a sea worthy boat.
There is an crucial need for access to a 25 to 36 foot center console boat with twin engines and large fuel capacity to be used by a credentialed search and rescue team that will run from any departure site from Perdido key to Mobile bay to be used for recovery and delivery of life saving goods to southern Plaquemines parish LA.
Our ability to communicate with FEMA and local officials has been severed by destruction of infrastructure and an inability to access the area via land routes.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Darren Angelo - Please contact and leave a message if the call goes to voice mail at 251-895-1403.
Edit:
BTW, feel free to PM to verify the validity and sincerity of this effort.
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 10:44 PM |
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PM FROM FRANK P.
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Good god...i just got this PM from Frank P. The GOOD news is he's alive:
"Phil, hey big guy I'm alive and shell shocked in Nashville... very busy at the moment planning strategy and actions we need to do next to help our family members as well as to get our lives back in order... living in Biloxi was inimaginable to say the least and had to get the hell out of town... but I felt that I need to get something in writing to you as soon as I had access to tell you personally that the wife and I and two bassets are doing OK... Javlin is OK too, he came buy my house yesterday and both of us had a nice discussion on my concrete slab... all the ceramic tiles still there but thats all... I could not find any identifiable piece of my house in the rubble about 50 yards north of my house... but two OAK trees are OK, however, one tree has debris marks about 8 feet up... that's 28 feet of surge minimum.... maybe more...
again thanks to all for their concern and prayers and will answer their emails later in the week..... the gulf coast despirately needs help
your friend and refugee suvivor
Frank P "
| StormKrone |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 10:46 PM |
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Re: Levees
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To: Magic Hat...Good to hear from yet another who was in harm's way..
Welcome back to the boards... and glad to hear that you weren't hit as hard..
Good news about Frank P... send him my best..
Bless you for your efforts on behalf of those who need help..
| BTfromAZ |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 11:13 PM |
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Re: Levees
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Quote:
Two day freeze? No, but from what is happening ,the Eastern Oil pipe line is closed
The pipelines are undamaged according to reports in the financial press but the owners of one of them, Kinder Morgan (full disclosure--I'm an investor in KMP) say they are simply waiting for power to be restored to the pumping stations necessary to pump gasoline through the line.
| Rad |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 11:31 PM |
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Re: PM FROM FRANK P.
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Thank goodness your allright Frank , & family , Anybody heard from Steve in Metarie ?
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 11:34 PM |
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Re: PM FROM FRANK P.
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Quote:
Thank goodness your allright Frank , & family , Anybody heard from Steve in Metarie ?
Steve posted yesterday on S2K. Thankfully he survived.
But his house and the houses of everyone in his entire family are destroyed.
Last I heard there was no word from Danny though.
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Wed Aug 31 2005 11:34 PM |
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Re: PM FROM FRANK P.
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Quote:
Thank goodness your allright Frank , & family , Anybody heard from Steve in Metarie ?
he hasn't posted here, but someone referenced a post from him from another board ... so, i think he's OK
| BobVee |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:07 AM |
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Re: Levees
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I have been out several times in Central Florida today and have not seen any really large lines. One thing, Superintendent of Orange County Schools announced that the school district had enough fuel for school busses through Friday. Cancelled all field trips, and other trips. Stated that the fuel expected today from supplier was cancelled and if they do not get the one expected tomorrow parents will have to transport kids to school. Other school districts around including Polk and Hillsbourough are in the same situation. It will probably get worse before it gets better. We have just the very tiny tip of the economic iceberg at this time.
| DebbiePSL |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:18 AM |
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Re: Levees
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The impact of this storm will definitly reach all the way across our country, most people didn't comprehend what the full impact of a cat 4 hurricane hitting NO and the Gulf coast would be. Although we all will feel the impact economically it is nothing IMO to what those poor people in NO, and the Gulf Coast are dealing with. These people have lost loved ones, their homes, and everything they own, I for one will not complain if I have to pay more for gas, or higher prices for goods, that is nothing compaired to what those victims have to deal with and last year it could have very well have been any of us here in Florida. My heart aches for everyone along the Gulf
| StormHound |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:25 AM |
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Re: Levees
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Here in Orlando, every gas station I passed on the way home from work had long lines. I don't know if we had a gas shortage before, but we do now. I think the word that about the school district panicked people into thinking automotive fuel would be in short supply. My guess is that the situation has been exacerbated by the panic.
| Margie |
| (Senior Storm Chaser) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:34 AM |
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Didn't they have mandatory evac?
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Oh don't tell me that anyone stayed down in southern Plaquemines parish, please! I don't think I could deal with any more horrific news. When Katrina went over that land (the first landfall) it was even stronger than when it hit the Gulf Coast, and down there is nothing but bayous. I thought that nothing would be left down there, afterwards, not even the road.
If there are people down in Buras, Venice, etc. they need to be airlifted out. Has LA been focused solely on NO and not checked out that area by airplane? I just assumed they had, and no one was there, and with the water levels still elevated I thought no one could get back in.
| Black Pearl |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:39 AM |
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Re: Fuel
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The same is happening in Baldwin County, Alabama. Public schools were scheduled to reopen tomorrow-
Power is back on
Buildings received minimal damage
No fuel for the buses- therefore schools are closed until further notice. The local news is advising people to drive unless it is absolutely necessary.
A word of thanks for all you on this website. The information you guys have provided both before and after the storm has been invaluable. Your heartlfelt concern and kind words are greatly appreciated. Mobile was bruised, and some people are really hurting, but nothing compared to the magnitude of suffering and anguish in Mississippi and Lousiana. My heart breaks for these people.
| bamffl |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:46 AM |
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Re: Didn't they have mandatory evac?
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Quote:
Oh don't tell me that anyone stayed down in southern Plaquemines parish...
Yes, unfortunately that's the case, but it ended up being a bad decision...
These guys (my cousin and his friend) ended up going over to somewhere in Florida to get some sort of portable shelters (details are sketchy) for people over there. The short story is that they wrote a check for $100K on his friend's account to get the shelters (can't remember how many) and then when they went back to the bank, the bank had frozen this guy's assets because it was based on the value of his marina and property, which was now basically non-existent. Sucks! These guys were trying to help others with their own funds and now they're looking at a *big* bounced check! Even now though, they simply want to get back into the area with whatever supplies they can and then help with the recovery of bodies, etc... I actually (selfishly) tried to talk my cousin out of it in light of the threat to health (typhoid, etc.) but he's pretty adamant. Even if people just want to get supplies to the area, call the number and they'll be delivered.
| Dougyd |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:47 AM |
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Colonial Pipeline
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The Colonial Pipeline - East-West Gasoline pipeline has opened up about 25% of capacity on generators and will work up to 60% or so soon.
Here is link.
http://www.colpipe.com/press_release/pr_73.asp
Doug
| Girlnascar |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:05 AM |
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Re: Fuel
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I saw lines in Orlando blocking major intersections and even one looked like they had police crime tape around, some people were in lines filling up spare tanks on boats, and some had empty tanks in the back of their vehicles 6-8 deep. Totally absurd. I can't believe how selfish our society have become. If everyone would conserve a little bit of gas/fuel each day and DONATE few bucks to the Red Cross and VOLUNTEER OUR time to the recovery efforts, after a month or two it will GET better. Panicking now is only making worse! Why do we want to make all of us part of the problem we need to be part of the solution!
Just my 2 cents worth in Orlando,.
| Kevin |
| (Weather Master) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:12 AM |
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Re: Fuel
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Here is my two cents: PEOPLE NEED TO STOP BUYING GAS LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW. In the face of decreased supply, we need to find substitutes in order to ease off of the demand of gasoline a little bit. All of these people trying to buy gas not only puts a major strain on the small supplies that are already left, but it also increases demand even more. There will be less gasoline available, but there will be people who still need gas.
I believe that gasoline SEVERELY needs rationing at this point.
And I totally agree with and echo what nascargirl said.
| Chesapeake Phil |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:13 AM |
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Re: Fuel
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Quote:
I saw lines in Orlando blocking major intersections and even one looked like they had police crime tape around, some people were in lines filling up spare tanks on boats, and some had empty tanks in the back of their vehicles 6-8 deep. Totally absurd. I can't believe how selfish our society have become. If everyone would conserve a little bit of gas/fuel each day and DONATE few bucks to the Red Cross and VOLUNTEER OUR time to the recovery efforts, after a month or two it will GET better. Panicking now is only making worse! Why do we want to make all of us part of the problem we need to be part of the solution!
Just my 2 cents worth in Orlando,.
Agreed. Rumors in Atlanta triggered a run on some gas stations; creating spot shortages through self-fulfilling prophecy. Full story is linked at http://www.ajc.com - you have to register for free to view. The headline is about rising gas prices. It SHOULD read "Governor Assures City That Atlanta Has Enough Gas if People Wouldn't Horde It."
The fact that CNN reported shortly ago that people in Atlanta were paying over $5 for gas was irresponsible and probably added to that panic. They were getting their info from http://atlantagasprices.com - a site where anyone can log in and post a gas price. Earlier this afternoon, there was a price posted there of $5.89 at one station and that price has now been removed (it was likely someone's idea of a sick joke). There are several reports of $3.99 - so some stations in ATL are taking advantage of a bad situation, but my sister in Alpharetta filled up a couple hours ago for $2.69. CNN made it sound like gas in Atlanta is over five dollars across the city - clearly not true and TOTALLY irresponsible reporting (considering where CNN is based) that will just lead to more panic and hording, thus causing some shortages.
EDIT: I see that http://atlantagasprices.com now has a report of $4.99/gallon. Of course, there is also a report of $0.06/gallon now posted. Whether that report of $4.99 is true or not, the fact is that there are still many stations in Atlanta who are not price gouging. The governor of Georgia has also come out and said that there will be consequences for gouges. PLEASE do not contribute to the madness regardless.
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:16 AM |
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Re: Fuel
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here's my $.02
i had one (not like the one above) more like this one
when i was 16...
i'm SERIOUSLY considering buying one again...
| Kevin |
| (Weather Master) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:18 AM |
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Re: Fuel
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Hell yes Phil, SUBSTITUTES.
| Lee-Delray |
| (Weather Master) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:23 AM |
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Re: Fuel
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There are no lines in Boca everything is normal.
I read the article about the Orange County School district. They are short on diesel fule not regular gas. They were able to get some at regular stations and a regetting a delivery tomorrow. It sounds like they only missed one shipment this week which would not have been effected by the storm yet.
The biggest problem we're going to have is irresponisble reporting. I've read that its not an issue of enough gas, but refining capacity which is only down 8%. This of course will create problems, but not the panic the media will create.
I remember waiting for gas in Michican for 30 minutes after 9/11 for the same reason; PANIC.
| Katie |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:23 AM |
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Re: New Orleans is a Tough town
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Quote:
Just looking at CNN, many are talking about how Ivan and Dennis and Francis and Jannie and even Charley all had things to normal in a matter of days, this storm aftermath will take months.
I hate to be mean but,....it didnt' take just days for us to clean up after those hurricanes. Some areas are STILL Cleaning up! Until you live in it day in and day out - you don't really understand - I know with Ivan they were still destroyed when Danny came through - you really shouldn't listen to what CNN has to say and ask some people who went through are are still cleaning up. This is going to take years to rebuild. Even areas down in South Florida that were hit by both Jeanne and Francis in the same place are rebuilding. And this was far worse but,..it is not an over night clean up . Maybe for a tropical storm but you have to realize, yes, it is going ot take a while to clean up but the areas you mentions are still cleaning up too. And it has only been a year. Keep that in mind...
| Katie |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:25 AM |
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gas
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I was driving down to Sebring tonight and every single gas station I drove past had a line - it is nuts. I mean, if you need it - get it I dont' see the reason to "top off" right now. Good grief...see how a little rumor can cause such problems. I will be interested to see how quickly they run out of gas now that we sucked em dry!
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MikeC
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| (Admin) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:28 AM |
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Re: gas
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I saw this too, the line was actually blocking my way out. I've created a new topic for discussion of things outside the direct storm area called the "Katrina Domino Effect", which can be found here.
It's great to hear from a few people, like Frank, and Steve that they are ok. Even though they apparantly lost a lot. We wish them the best.
Also reports that some looters were shooting at helecopters today in New Orleans as well as a few other looter stories makes me very concerned.
| bamffl |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:32 AM |
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Re: gas
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I saw no lines in Tampa or Lakeland today. It did seem a bit busier than normal, but not crowded by any stretch of the imagination. And I the last price I saw for regular unleaded was WELL under $3.00 (~2.59?)
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:47 AM |
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Re: gas
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Quote:
I saw no lines in Tampa or Lakeland today. It did seem a bit busier than normal, but not crowded by any stretch of the imagination. And I the last price I saw for regular unleaded was WELL under $3.00 (~2.59?)
Actually there were long lines of cars at gas stations tonight all over Lakeland. Also, the regular gas is over $2.70. Just wanted to correct the above information, as it is erroneous.
| bamffl |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:52 AM |
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Re: gas
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Erroneous? Sorry, Big Red... I posted the Tampa price I saw since that's where I live. Lakeland (where I work) is generally around a nickel more so there might have been a little ambiguity, but erroneous? Apparently, according to the local radio (WFLA), the prices were changing pretty rapidly throughout the day too. Cut me some slack on the exact price quote, as the gist of my post was that it was well under three bucks with no major lines.
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:59 AM |
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Re: gas
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Just read an interesting article here on airports possibly closing due to lack of fuel. http://www.airportbusiness.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3343
I also disagree with the above posts in regards to the lack of fuel being caused by the "run" on gas. While the situation is certainly exacerbated by this, you cannot shut off the pipelines bringing gas to the southeast and NOT expect this to occur. While it would be nice to blame the gas shortages on the run by "panicked people," but these gas shortages are caused by... well... a shortage of gas. Prices are rising around the world. Even in Europe today wholesale gas prices rose $.10, and there's no "run" and their supply pipelines are not affected over there. It's only natural that things would be worse here in the southeast where we aren't getting the amount of new gas that we need.
Bam, I can make no comment on Tampa, but I have been around Lakeland this afternoon and the lines and prices are the case all over the city, and in fact all over Polk County. Perhaps you were through the area earlier in the day, as it is most certainly the case now. Things in Tampa/Hillsborough area are likely be better than they are here in Polk County, I don't doubt that at all. I only intended to correct the information about the city of Lakeland, as it is not the case in North Lakeland, or, from talking with friends in the Winter Haven area.
| JulieTampa |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:00 AM |
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Re: gas
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I agree. I'm in Brandon (between Lakeland and Tampa) and the gas went from 2.57 at noon to 2.69 after rush hour at my local station, and I saw no lines anywhere as I drove around. Husband didn't see any lines on the way home Tampa to south Brandon, either.
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:08 AM |
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MS Power
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Sobering number: 1 in every 3 people without power in Mississippi (via Fox 35 news in Orlando).
| DebbiePSL |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:08 AM |
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Re: gas
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Little off your subject of gas, but yesterday several people posted that perhaps our entertainment industry would make some donations I just saw the group INXS on tv and they made a donation to the RED CROSS and ask that others do the same.
Maybe this is a start and others will do the same
| bamffl |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:09 AM |
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Re: gas
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Fair enough, Big Red. There may be fluctuations from place to place and from hour to hour. I was only reporting what I saw with my own eyes. No hard feelings, since this is the *LEAST* of our worries. Back to tracking weather and aiding those in the affected areas in any way we can, okay?
Edit:
For the record, I was looking at the Lakeland prices around Wabash and US-92, and it was earlier in the day -- around noon.
| VandyBrad |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:10 AM |
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Re: gas
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Quote:
Little off your subject of gas, but yesterday several people posted that perhaps our entertainment industry would make some donations I just saw the group INXS on tv and they made a donation to the RED CROSS and ask that others do the same.
NBC is planning a benifit concert to air on Friday night. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9146525/ Further in the link it says that MTV and others are planning their own for September 10th.
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:15 AM |
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Re: gas
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I agree Bam. The fact that we are in our homes in air conditioning with running water makes us more fortunate than many tonight. Regardless, things in future weeks may become even more difficult, now is only the tip of the iceberg. Turning our attention back towards the devastation in MS/AL/LA...
I heard on the news a little bit ago that Sen. Trent Lott's home was destroyed, as were those of many other elected officials. Truly no one has escaped the scope of this disaster.
Also, I have a request, if anyone knows where I can find the video of Harvey Jackson, (the horrific video of the man who lost his wife in MS). I may be making a powerpoint for a local drive and I would like this video to include in the presentation. That was the one of the saddest videos I've ever seen.
| bamffl |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:25 AM |
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Re: gas
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Big Red, is this what you're looking for?
javascript:cnnPlayVideo('/video/us/2005/08/30/sot.katrina.man.loses.wife.wkrg');
Crap, I don't think the link worked. Go to CNN.com and look for the video stuff (Survivor's Story) and then look for (currently on page 4) "Heartache for hurricane victim(1:07)"
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SkeetoBite
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| (Master of Maps) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:27 AM |
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Re: gas
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Back on gas for a minute...
South Lakeland (540A & Lakeland Highlands) Sunoco - no gas, across the street at Pix - Premium only @ $2.97 - Down to the 540a & Bartow Road 7-11 has Premium Only @ $2.97 (prices removed from road sign)
Cars in line about 5 deep at both locations.
| Bloodstar |
| (Moderator) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:30 AM |
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TD 14?
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It's possible 91L will be classified as a TD tonight, the T numbers are at 2.0/2.0 which is hard to deny as a depression. So ... I wouldn't be suprised one bit
92L is still getting its act together. Probably going to take more time to develop if it does....
-Mark
*NRL hasn't called it 13L.Noname yet, but who knows... maybe I'm wrong
| CoalCracker |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:31 AM |
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Re: gas
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Mr. Jackson was interviewed originally on WKRG. Link to home page below.
http://wkrg.com
| CivilEngineer |
| (Registered User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:32 AM |
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Re: gas
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I live outside of Marianna, FL on I-10. Gas prices as of 6 pm $2.99 a gallon. Have been told that gas could be in short supply by Friday due to no shipments coming into port. Who knows when it will stop. But rural people will take the biggest hit from the gas prices.
| Jeffmidtown |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:44 AM |
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Re: gas
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Hey everypne from here in crazy Atlanta....
Just to give everyone an update, Gov Sonny Perdue has imposed a State of Emergency in relation to gas prices as around 3pm an internet rumor started in Atlanta and they said that the gas stations were going to close at either 4, 5 or 6pm and stay closed to Saturday. Once that got out, everyone flocked to the gas pumps and the gas station owners started jacking up the prices, in one extreme case in Stockbridge it was $6.09 a gallon. A lot of stations around the metro were pushing 4 bucks a gallon. Gov Perdue went on the air to assuade everyone that there was no truth to the rumors that they were hearing and that any shortage would be very, very minimal. Finally around 6pm, the order was issued and the Gov said that anyone caught price-gouging were going to be fined $10,000 per occurance.
Tonight, because of the run on gas, many stations have run out of gas, but the trucks are delivering gas to them and it may be just a hiccup in the prices. But man oh man, it was the worst in humanity by just a few people.
Also WSB-TV and the other Cox radio stations here in town are running a call center and have been doing so for the past two days and they have already raised $600,000 for the American Red Cross...
Take Care
| Rhino |
| (Registered User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:53 AM |
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New Orleans Mayor
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First time poster. I've been lurking since last years hurricanes after moving to Florida last June.
Why would the N.O. mayor pull troops off rescuing people to deal with looters? This makes no sense to me. What is he trying to accomplish? Save some merchandise and money from stores detroyed? Not even comparable to human life. I read he said it's because the looters were getting to close to populated areas. There aren't many populated areas left. For the amount of time the police are busy trying to stop the looters and save the people in the "populated area" from possible harm from them, many more are desparate and in great dire striats. Is it worth it to deal with looters at all when many many human life's are at stake? To me it seems like wasted man power.
Ryan
gotta have security, my man. could end up with desperate people rioting with armed thugs in their midst... if the authorities don't assert some control. -HF
| Catawba |
| (Registered User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:58 AM |
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Re: New Orleans Mayor
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I think one of the looting concerns is that some stores had their guns and ammo looted, and there are now armed gangs walking around the city. I think I heard that there were problems with shootings last night, and they are concerned about the same happening again.
| tenavilla |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:00 AM |
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Re: gas
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Quote:My husband just got home here in Tampa and he said that all the gas stations he passed were packed and had long lines. Teaser for the 11pm news said "Tampa WILL face a gas shortage"
I saw no lines in Tampa or Lakeland today. It did seem a bit busier than normal, but not crowded by any stretch of the imagination. And I the last price I saw for regular unleaded was WELL under $3.00 (~2.59?)
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:03 AM |
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Re: gas
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Thanks for the links guys. "Glad" to find that awful video again, I was unable to download it, so I am still looking for it in a form I can save so that I might include it. I sent CNN a request in an email, but I am sure they are swamped right now.
In regards to the Mayor pulling the cops off the rescue mission, I feel that he did this because the situation in the city was spiraling out of control and he felt that if he let it go unchecked more people would die as a result of the security problems than the number who would die that are still awaiting rescuing. (Also the armed gangs likely would have hampered the recovery efforts that will start soon, and it will likely take days to ease the problem.)
| Anton Ross |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:13 AM |
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Video for Big Red
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Try this:
rtsp://mgs.mgbg.com/wkrg/video/083105_jennifer_mayerle_man_on_street.rm
| damejune2 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:26 AM |
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Re: Video for Big Red
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I heard uncomfirmed reports of gun wielding looters shooting at helicopters...thats just insane! Also, did anyone read about the nursing home bus driver who was carjacked by looters? They stole the bus and then drove around and by the nursing home demanding everyone inside to leave. The director of the home said she has enough food for ten days and now has to arm her attendants and teach them to shoot. I can tell you one thing...if someone starts shooting then a war will break out between the police and the looters. They, the looters, have stolen guns and ammo from sporting goods stores....they already have shot some people......total chaos.
| jaybythebay |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:35 AM |
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Dr. Lyons
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Earlier tonight I heard Dr. Lyons say he was concerned about a possible low devolping in the Gulf in a few days. Please tell me this is not possible.
unfortunately high pressure will not dominate the gulf from now until doomsday. yeah, there's something peeking on the models. might be east of florida... might be in both places. might be a phantom. will see. -HF
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:45 AM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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In addition to the homebrew there's also 92L invest.
Plots
What a sobering thought. FEMA resources are already stretched thin from the Big 4 in Florida last year (they are still all over the state), and now our nations worst disaster. It is September and we will likely have at least one more hurricane hit the US. Remember, we're looking at up to 10 more named storms according to some of the predictions (18-22). I just don't know if FEMA can do this. Any efforts to aid in another storm during the next few months will most certainly be hampered by the catastrophes of the past year and a half. It's not like these agencies have an unlimited budget. Citizens may be unwilling to give again, or more likely, depending on the economic toll of this across the country, desire to give, but be unable to afford it.
Tragic interview just on CNN of a family at the Astrodome who hitchhiked down the highway to Houston for Louisiana.
| Mongo |
| (Registered User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:03 AM |
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Re: Fuel
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There are several reports of $3.99 - so some stations in ATL are taking advantage of a bad situation, but my sister in Alpharetta filled up a couple hours ago for $2.69. CNN made it sound like gas in Atlanta is over five dollars across the city - clearly not true and TOTALLY irresponsible reporting (considering where CNN is based) that will just lead to more panic and hording, thus causing some shortages.
EDIT: I see that http://atlantagasprices.com now has a report of $4.99/gallon. Of course, there is also a report of $0.06/gallon now posted. Whether that report of $4.99 is true or not, the fact is that there are still many stations in Atlanta who are not price gouging. The governor of Georgia has also come out and said that there will be consequences for gouges. PLEASE do not contribute to the madness regardless.
I just drove 15 miles back home from pub and saw gas ranging from $2.89 (now out of gas) to $2.99 mostly. However, a Shell station right by my house has regular listed for $3.99, which is up from $2.89 just 2.5 hours earlier. That is one station that is gouging us and is one station that will never be frequented by me again.
I know this is irrelevant next to the horrors being experienced by folks in Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama, but it is still maddening that greed is so rampant. Grr.
Brian
| Lisa NC |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:05 AM |
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Re: gas
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Gas prices are spiking up. Here in Lewisville North Carolina, the price has gone up .70 in 3 days. twenty cents of that was this afternoon. This morning when I drove kids to school it was $2.79 this afternoon at pick up time it was up to $2.99. My husband said in Greensboro, reg unleaded was $3.29 at Sheetz (discount gas place)
| ShanaTX |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:08 AM |
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Re: Video for Big Red
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Here's a Google Map that people have put situation report pins on. No way of checking authenticity ... but seems like a home grown effort
http://www.scipionus.com/
Here's something else I just found
Side-by-side night image of the Coast on 17 Sep 03 and 31 Aug 05
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:09 AM |
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Re: gas
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just for comparison sake...i filled up this morning...unleaded reg was $2.99/gal
yesterday it was $2.79...
the good stuff is now $3.49/gal
| Margie |
| (Senior Storm Chaser) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:25 AM |
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Waveland
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I saw they finally reached Waveland and Bay St Louis (by helicopter). It was just as bad as I feared. There was nothing in this area but slabs and trees with all the leaves ripped off. Remember I believed this to be the area with the highest surge...although it hasn't been measured yet. This is the place where there was so much water there was nothing off of I-10 but a lake according to an eyewitness account...the water was so high it covered everything.
There isn't even very much debris in Waveland because it appears it was all washed out to sea.
It looks like the destruction in BSL also went up the back bay and Jordan River and leveled everything there (I think the video may have been of Diamondhead). Of course the Hwy 90 bridge was gone.
The reason I believe the surge to be so high here is that this is the area that was hit directly by the northern eyewall coming from the south. Usually when a hurricane hits a south-facing coastline the largest surge is just to the east of the eye. However I believe in this case with the winds rotating CCW that as the large eye moved north and the curve of this extremely large eye fit the curve of the shoreline, the storm surge that was being pushed north was concentrated by the strong eyewall winds and pushed west into the curve of the shoreline. This is why I also believe that Slidell and the LA coast next to MS also received a very high storm surge. Also, remember watching the storm on radar, I saw a very intense portion of the eyewall rotate around the radar and move over the Waveland to Slidell area.
I would not be surprised to learn upon analysis that the storm surge was over 40 feet in this area.
Something else that has been on my mind...
Not too many weeks ago Clark posted a link that let you view satellite images of a hurricane's path and you could see the slabs from communities that didn't rebuild after Andrew. Well I used the same satellite image viewer to go over the Waveland BSL area that was ground zero for Camille in 1969. I found a small area that was clearly the imprint of a small housing development that had never been rebuilt; although it looked like the slabs had been covered with green, you could still see the outline of where the homes had been.
Now those entire cities are basically nothing but slabs.
| Doombot! |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 05:05 AM |
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Re: gas
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FYI, I paid $3.019 p/g at the 7-11 on US 98 N and Griffin road in Lakeland at 7:45 PM. I was told I was "lucky"; they were almost dry. Ugg.
| HanKFranK |
| (User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 05:15 AM |
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september time
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we're near the climatological peak of the season. pattern is continuing more or less like it was in august, but mjo is switching to slightly mitigating. activity still occurs on the downturn, so the active waves in the atlantic right now have modest chances at development. soi is pulsing, and when it does that you tend to get delayed-response activity in the atlantic, if other enhancing factors are in place... (enso neutral, early september, warm ssts everywhere.. yeah, thats enhancing).
so anyway, lee is looking flimsy, interacting with an upper trough and a couple of nontropical lows to its west. it may be absorbed by them, absorb them, or just weakly rotate around them. we've had storms not classified as such on a t-2.5 rating before, so the nhc's attitude is again inconsistent. lee has convection, but it really isn't any stronger than it's sheared cousin to the south, 91L.
91L has a t-2.0, and that's with a good deal of shear. factor in that shear results in an underestimate of strength.. well, you do the math. well defined llc with this, and deep convection flaring on and off the core today. the nhc says it isn't organized enough (it's just sheared), so it's a tropical low for now. it's working its way wnw through an upper trough.. and should be getting on the enhancement flank of an upper low immediately to its west, so it'll probably develop... over the next couple of days. nhc seems to be waiting on a sustained burst, based on the TWO lingo.
92L is trucking westward right now, and most modeling keeps it on a much further south track. it has a better chance of getting into the western atlantic and perhaps affecting the ne caribbean next week, but this is highly uncertain. the development chances are modest, as it is at a low latitude. good signature, though, so given a couple of days it may be something.
models are progging a large area of general low pressure from the eastern gulf out to near bermuda.. as part of the pattern pulse/upper weakness trapped south of the large surface high descending from canada in katrina's wake. this sort of pattern generates tropical cyclones near the east coast sometimes... potentially in the gulf, but most likely off the east coast. far enough east and it will likely drift out to sea... closer in a stalled, sheared, slowly developing hybrid type storm would be what we're looking for. most global models indicate something like this will be present around the weekend timeframe.
i don't really have anything positive or useful to say about katrina. staying detached because the facts make me emotional. there are repercussions that will be felt from this storm in aspects of all our lives. but i have no right to complain... for me the coming things are an inconvenience and a drag. folks i enjoy reading... members of our board.. are homeless now. my regrets are for them.
HF 0515z01september
| Margie |
| (Senior Storm Chaser) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 05:52 AM |
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Re: september time
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Sat image of the destruction along the west part of Beach Blvd in Pascagoula, and the inner harbor. Place your cursor over the picture and in the lower RH corder a box with arrows will appear; click on it to zoom in.
http://mfproducts.nos.noaa.gov/storms/katrina/24329662.jpg
| DebbiePSL |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 05:56 AM |
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Re: september time
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Thanks for the update. I hope nothing develops out there but I will stay alert and be prepared. I love this site and the info I get here is so valuable to me. Keep up the great work
| GuppieGrouper |
| (Weather Master) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 07:55 AM |
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Re: september time
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My son just got home here in Lakeland at 3:30 a.m. he says that he had to wait in line for 20 minutes to get gasoline and that in the east side towards Bartow, the stations were out of anything but the high priced stuff and there were still lines. It is starting to look like we will be out of Gasoline by tomorrow morning. Unless the city transit system runs on diesel, that option of public transportation will be gone soon as well. I am not speculating on how long it will take for that because I know nothing about gas supplies or what kind of engine runs on what. I do know that many, many people in our city are totally reliant on public transportation, from the city bus to the chauffers from airports to the mini-buses for the handicapped and assisted living facilities in the area. It is almost 4 in the morning and I am sitting here thinking that people seem to manage to get themselves transportation to all sorts of fun time activities and spend thousands of dollars on concert events, football, baseball etc. I wonder about the ingenuity that is available to take on the activity of getting homeless housed, hungry fed, and needy transported in the unaffected areas of our country. As for the subject of the gangs and the non-destitute looters, I hope that the US military regard those criminals as public enemy number 1 and quarantine them like they did the accused Al quaeda at Guantanamo. If they are forced to live with themselves and each other confined from the enjoyments of life, the punishment might be better than being shot on sight which is another alternative in my personal opinion.
One more comment on this and I will relinquish the spot to others who need it, but I urge any of you who have any influence with the news media to ask them to downplay the "excitement" of the gangs and looting etc. This type of behavior spreads like wildfire to bored teenagers, and other functionally handicapped people. The more press it gets the worse it will get. If the press promotes the possibility of being shot on sight doing criminal behavior, it will send a message that it is unacceptable and not romantic to be dying while trying to heist an ATM.
| jlauderdal |
| (Weather Hobbyist) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 11:11 AM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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Quote:
Earlier tonight I heard Dr. Lyons say he was concerned about a possible low devolping in the Gulf in a few days. Please tell me this is not possible.
unfortunately high pressure will not dominate the gulf from now until doomsday. yeah, there's something peeking on the models. might be east of florida... might be in both places. might be a phantom. will see. -HF
left over forntal action from katrina may develop something east of florida early next week per gfs but we will see waht happens, enjoy your weekend. I would be a bit more concerned about the next 10-21 days in the atlantic, looks prime to me after our too systems clear out to the N and we are approaching the climatoloigical peak.
| Margie |
| (Senior Storm Chaser) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 11:36 AM |
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sat imagry of MS coastline
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I posted this in the disaster forum as well but thought it might be of interest here.
However mods can delete if not.
Here is the entire satellite photo database.
http://alt.ngs.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM
It appers incomplete and put together hurriedly. The boxes are not placed exactly over the land they correspond to. Also the names on each are mislabeled (the Pascagoula one is actually points east; Ocean Springs is actually Pascagoula and Gautier). Many of the coastal areas (such as the portion of Ocean Springs south of 90 at the bay) were not photographed at all. Also the 2nd level zoom in maps are not geographically correct (Bay Bay Biloxi missing from the map) but if you know the area you can figure it out).
Looks like either a first pass, or they didn't have the resources to do as many as they normally did for Ivan or Dennis.
Everything on the coast west of Bay St Louis bridge (which is also gone, as are all the Hwy 90 bridges along the coast), is either slabs with no debris, or completely taken apart debris (piles of wood), including back bay and Jordan River area of BSL. SW of Waveland, continuing along the coast, clearly the area of strongest outflow of the surge, caused by the strong southern edge of the eye as it passed over. All the debris generated by the NW and W portions of the eye was sucked out. Deep east-west gouges were left on the shore with strips of sandbars piled up for 1/4 mile offshore.
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 11:48 AM |
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Yanks donate $1M to relief efforts
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here's a story on the yanks giving $1M for relief efforts. nice...also nice to see brett favre taking such a vocal role in recovery efforts
| Margie |
| (Senior Storm Chaser) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:04 PM |
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Re: Yanks donate $1M to relief efforts
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Hey sports fan, I sent you a couple PMs.
Yes you can send this post to the graveyard now.
| Lee-Delray |
| (Weather Master) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:15 PM |
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Gas
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I drove this morning Palm Beach County has no lines and gas prices haven't moved much yet. There have been reports in Broward County that station owners are raising prices for gas they already have (gouging). Port Everglades is making a 5th site available today for oil products which should help.
Without getting into economics of gas it seems the real problem is that alot of people want to get gas before the price goes up. I see the real problem in natural gas for the winter.
Regarding TD Lee; being that's my name I'm glad it's out to sea. :
| Takingforever |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:24 PM |
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Re: New Orleans is a Tough town
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Quote:Quote:
Just looking at CNN, many are talking about how Ivan and Dennis and Francis and Jannie and even Charley all had things to normal in a matter of days, this storm aftermath will take months.
I hate to be mean but,....it didnt' take just days for us to clean up after those hurricanes. Some areas are STILL Cleaning up! Until you live in it day in and day out - you don't really understand - I know with Ivan they were still destroyed when Danny came through - you really shouldn't listen to what CNN has to say and ask some people who went through are are still cleaning up. This is going to take years to rebuild. Even areas down in South Florida that were hit by both Jeanne and Francis in the same place are rebuilding. And this was far worse but,..it is not an over night clean up . Maybe for a tropical storm but you have to realize, yes, it is going ot take a while to clean up but the areas you mentions are still cleaning up too. And it has only been a year. Keep that in mind...
They weren't talking about the clean up, they were talking about how things got back to normal. That is what they were talking about. Of course they know the clean up doesn't take a couple of days, after all they were the same people down there through each storm that came through and reported that things were still rebuilding.
When they said normal they meant many went back to work a week later, they got electricity back on in a matter of days, some areas the day after it hit. You know they had a sense of things were getting back to normal and everything would be ok..
No one in the wake of Katrina is even thinking of those things right now, nor will they next week, or the week after that.
| Takingforever |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:35 PM |
Hurricane Lee to Boston
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Quote:
Regarding TD Lee; being that's my name I'm glad it's out to sea. :
I don't know about that Lee. As they say "Till it's all spin out, don't count it out"
Huh, My local Fox Good Day news show jsut reported that People(Gangs that aren't gettingo n the buses) are shooting at (military) helicopters in New Orleans..Waht the hell is happening to the Big Easy?
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:42 PM |
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Re: Hurricane Lee to Boston
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re: looters shooting at choppers...not necessarily confirmed...apparently RIVAL GANGS have been shooting at each other...after they looted gun stores and loaded up...and some of those shots were in the viscinity of the evac choppers...as a result, the evac of the superdome has been suspended (confirmed)...
reports and video footage of church collection boxes looted...this is just crazy
btw, anyone see that Trent Lott's 150+ year old vacation home was destroyed?
| Random Chaos |
| (Weather Analyst) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 12:47 PM |
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Re: Hurricane Lee to Boston
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More sat photos of the damage - these include before and after of New Orleans:
http://www.digitalglobe.com/katrina_gallery.html
| Takingforever |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:00 PM |
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Lee to Boston
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Wow 150 year old beach house..Goes to shwo that this was once in a 100 year type stuff...
| HanKFranK |
| (User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:19 PM |
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tropical storm lee to the north atlantic
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the basin is likely to go quite active next week. here's the rundown:
nhc tracked the convection and not the center of lee last night.. the center has become more established in the broader low in the area. it won't strengthen until convection redevelops, or maybe the center will migrate towards the convection in spite of current steering to the nw. based on location and synoptic pattern, it has zero chance of affecting land.
91L has likely been a tropical storm since late yesterday. it's maintained a t-2.0 in spite of running underneath an upper trough, and has a vigorous surface circulation that is occasionally firing convection. now it's working into the exit region of the upper low, so the prospects of further development are good. wondering how many more advisory cycles the nhc will say 'thats not a tropical cyclone' when it looks better than irene did for days. some of the models are taking it more westward than earlier, but the long term trend should be north of the islands and nw to the bermuda vicinity. i'll get to what's happening up there in a minute.
92L has some serious long term prospects if it can get organized. numerous track models are strengthening it into a hurricane and moving it into the caribbean. there may be a good deal going on to the north that will add great uncertainty to the long-range... gfs has it slowly recurving in the western atlantic for days (and doing a loop by the end of the last forecast run.. in mid-september). the system is sheared from the east, but maintaining a t-1.0 rating... has for a day now. probably won't start any real development (and most all guidance suggests it will) until it nears/passes 40w.
western atlantic and gulf... still several model depictions of what happens here, and none of them are that comforting. this situation is something i learned to look for from mr. joe b, and the models have been getting steadily more aggressive with it.. the pattern pulse. katrina's wake trough is pulling out and leaving ridging aloft to settle off the east coast, while a large upper high digs in over the eastern u.s. and synoptically forces pressure falls from the eastern gulf out to near bermuda.
various model response to this... cmc develops a storm off the east coast that is moving towards the mid atlantic... most of the other globals spin up a duet of lows.. one near bermuda and one near the bahamas. gfs has the bahamas system moving across florida and the gulf into texas.. nogaps has a similar pair but a shorter run... euro has three weaker features, but one migrating into the gulf, another moving towards the SE, and another staying quasi-stationary near bermuda. of the model runs, the eastern-most in the low pressure series appears to be interacting with 91L... lee appears to be out of the picture. the system from 92L, if it comes to pass, will be moving in to the south of this large area of unsettled weather.. how it will interact is dependent on an already uncertain complex set of features to the north.
suffice to say, we may have a substantial burst of activity, and several models are depicting a significant system entering the caribbean, and activity potentially in the gulf or near the atlantic seaboard. could be getting busy over labor day weekend/into next week.
HF 1319z01september
| Margie |
| (Senior Storm Chaser) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:24 PM |
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Re: Lee to Boston
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Quote:
Wow 150 year old beach house..Goes to shwo that this was once in a 100 year type stuff...
The key factor was the height of the storm surge, which is the killer.
| NewWatcher |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:38 PM |
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Re: tropical storm lee to the north atlantic
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Quote:
, and activity potentially in the gulf or near the atlantic seaboard. could be getting busy over labor day weekend/into next week.
HF 1319z01september
I am not liking you too much right now HF
I hope NONE of this pans out.....crossing fingers and toes
I am also not liking that ridging setting up over the east coast
that looks to me like wayyyyy too much High pressure for my liking during
hurricane season
| HanKFranK |
| (User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 01:42 PM |
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new addition
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nrl is tracking 91L as 14L now, so i guess nhc has finally made the upgrade. that thing isn't going away... you can only drag your feet on it for so long.
HF 1342z01september
this is close enough to the worst case scenario--the louisiana governor is saying that the new orleans death toll is in the thousands, as if to confirm earlier speculation. i wouldn't have believed this two days ago. -HF
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:22 PM |
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Re: new addition
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HF, I can't help but notice that burst of convection east of Fl and Bahamas. That's not something that can develop is it?
| B.C.Francis |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:25 PM |
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Re: new addition
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Here we go into September and we have 14L out there trying to get together. Next couple of days it becomes more favorable for tropical cyclone development. May have another fish spinner from what I see this morning..........I hope so....I wonder what this month has in store for us ?......Weatherchef
| Londovir |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:30 PM |
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Re: new addition
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I have a question. I just saw on CNN that they have reports from Keesler AFB that the base is "95% smashed", according to someone in the Air Force.
Since that's the home of the Hurricane Hunter fleet, and since Pensacola took a little whipping too, where do you think they'll be moving the fleet to? I imagine with 91L and the rest out there trying to do something, should the need arise they'll need to have a good base of operations to work out of.
I'm just curious as to whether or not there's an established secondary base to work from.
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:37 PM |
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Re: new addition
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As the Hurricane hunters were returning from their mission, they were flying back to the base in Texas. Not I don't know if all the hunter planes remained,there or mover to another location, but hope all the hunter planes remained.
| native |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:37 PM |
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Re: new addition
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HF - Don't take this personally. I really do NOT like your posts this morning. (still like you though
) ARGHHH please tell me it ain't so. Unfortunately NewsWatcher, I see what you see on this....the climate/pattern stage is being set and I'm not so sure I like the decorator.
Today is my b-day...I always dread it because it's so close to Labor Day (always) and Labor Day hasn't been real good (weather wise) as of late. Let us all hope for a quiet one please!
Heard some "good" news on Katrina Help: As we all know, Jerry Lewis holds his telethon on Labor Day Weekend. Well, WRMF (local radio station here) reported this morning that not only are they accepting donation for MD but the first 4 hrs. and last 4hrs. of the telethon, they are collecting for Hurricane Katrina Relief. Not sure why only the first & last 4hrs. but, I'll be tuned in to make another donation and to see what they end up with. My daughter's school is collecting stuff too...I have the good fortune to be able to afford to buy my family more hurricane supplies so when I go to pick her up later I'm going to donate the stash I have now. I just wish I could do more.
Also more "good" news: WSVN (local "doom & gloom TV station here) said there is a website : Craigslist.org that people are posting rooms available in their own homes for the victims of this tragedy. Here's the article:
Craigslist.org Article
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! from cfhc
| NewWatcher |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:46 PM |
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Re: new addition
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LATEST SATELLITE DVORAK CLASSIFICATIONS INDICATE THAT A TROPICAL
DEPRESSION HAS FORMED IN THE CENTRAL TROPICAL ATLANTIC ABOUT 1000
MILES EAST OF THE NORTHERN LEEWARD ISLANDS.
td 14 lives
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:57 PM |
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Re: new addition
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This is what HF was talking about, and J.B as well. Hope it doesn't pan out to be nothing but a "spinner" but we all know too well that may not be the case. How much more can we endure till 30 NOV 2005.
| NewWatcher |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 02:59 PM |
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Re: new addition
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Not much but also remember that date is NOT set in stone... these "dang" things do whatever the "heck" they want.
" " indicate the willingness to adhere to the no cussing rules even tho i dont want to
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:01 PM |
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Re: new addition
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Just a side post,
Where are all the "Billioneres" in this country? When the country needs the most, it is the ordinary citizen like us who contribute our homes and or donate. These wealthy individuals who hold probally a Trillion dollars combined, should shell out some of their wealth to who need it now. I would like to see Bill Gates offer a Billion dollars , or the Walmart family, and others. People are struggling and they need all of us to contribute. The people who have very little to give, give the most. How I ronic.!!
| LI Phil |
| (User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:07 PM |
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Re: new addition
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Quote:
Just a side post,
Where are all the "Billioneres" in this country? When the country needs the most, it is the ordinary citizen like us who contribute our homes and or donate. These wealthy individuals who hold probally a Trillion dollars combined, should shell out some of their wealth to who need it now. I would like to see Bill Gates offer a Billion dollars , or the Walmart family, and others. People are struggling and they need all of us to contribute. The people who have very little to give, give the most. How I ronic.!!
i think you'd be surprised to know how much these guys give away...of course they get a nice tax write-off so it ain't entirely outta the good of their hearts...but they give A LOT...
instead of the capitans of industry, who busted their humps to get where they are and are already giving back, howzabout all the sports figures and rock stars and hollywood types???
where's diddy when ya need him, huh?
| Beaumont, TX |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:10 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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If this develops where does it look like it will go? Seems things are getting very active.
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:13 PM |
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Re: new addition
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I wouldn't bash Bill Gates. He's notorius for large charitable donations. Also, Walmart was one of the first in with truckloads of supplies. Not only that but they didn't inventory it. Just loaded up heeps and heeps of stuff. No inventory, No write off. They also cut a check for 1 million and there's more to come. Many, many wealthy people make huge donations but don't get a rise out of doing it puplicly. They'll get critisized for no donation then next years tax records will tell the truth. However, no one will mention it. Not only that but don't forget that those wealthy people own the companies that are busting there butts to do anything to help.
| native |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:14 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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Beaumont - Are you talking about TD 14? If so, here ya go:
www.nrlmry.navy.mil/tc_pages/ATL/14L.NONAME/ssmi/gif/full/Latest.html
CFHC - Thank you. Dig the birthday cake!
| hurricane expert |
| (Really Not an Expert) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:22 PM |
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Re: Tropical Storm Lee Forms, No Threat to Land
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92L may also form into a deppression later on today.
| The Force 2005 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:24 PM |
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Re: new addition
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I wasn't bashing Bill Gates, I know he has giving alot, I was just saying that they (Relief ORG's) need money, alot of it. I also know tha Walmart has donated as well. There are so many wealthy people in this country, that when a disaster, especially one of this magnatude, we nver here from them. That's along with the Entertainers as well. I know in the days and weeks, perhaps months, we will see the money flowing in. I was just ranting.
| rmbjoe1954 |
| (Weather Master) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:27 PM |
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92L
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From looking at the satellite pics I would say 92L stands to become a greater risk to the east coast, if it does develop , as I am sure it will.
It's south enough so as not to be immediately impacted by shear.
| emackl |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:31 PM |
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Re: new addition
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This entire thing is frustrating. I know what you mean. I did hear the Red Cross has had 21 million donated so far. That's great news. I just wish the rescuers weren't being shot at. There are lots more people that need help. These few low lives are killing hundreds of people by not letting us in. Idiots.
| ftlaudbob |
| (Storm Chaser) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:43 PM |
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Re: new addition
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Looks like a couple of fish-spinners out there to me.Hope this trend continues,But I am not banking on that.It is nice to get a little break though.
Watching the news now is just heartbreaking.
| AdvAutoBob |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 03:51 PM |
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Re: new addition
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Quote:
I have a question. I just saw on CNN that they have reports from Keesler AFB that the base is "95% smashed", according to someone in the Air Force.
Since that's the home of the Hurricane Hunter fleet, and since Pensacola took a little whipping too, where do you think they'll be moving the fleet to? I imagine with 91L and the rest out there trying to do something, should the need arise they'll need to have a good base of operations to work out of.
I'm just curious as to whether or not there's an established secondary base to work from.
I thought MacDill AFB in Tampa was secondary base ops, considering NOAA has a presence there.
| Beaumont, TX |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:02 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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no, I am talking about something maybe developing in the Gulf. Does anyone have information on that?
| Beaumont, TX |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:09 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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The federal government didn't react quick enough to this disaster. NHC warned this would be a freight train. I am not sure there was a plan in place
a plan in place for a levvy break. We have many evacuees in our Ford center here in Beaumont. My neighbor
has eight people at her house, relatives and friends. Looks like Lee and TD 14 will move out to sea
but wondering about the wave behind that.
| Random Chaos |
| (Weather Analyst) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:13 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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Quote:
no, I am talking about something maybe developing in the Gulf. Does anyone have information on that?
I'm not seeing anything in the gulf over the next half week. Beyond that is too far out for accurate guessing even. Even the CMC, which overdevelops gulf systems, isn't showing any vorticity developing in the gulf.
However, I'm seeing a ton of stuff in the Atlantic - up to 5 storms at once on some models, and all of them have at least 3 at once almost every day during the next week, though which three varies.
It's looking like a busy week coming up for the Atlantic.
| Beaumont, TX |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:16 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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What about 92L? Looks like that one will have to be watched if it develops. Where would the other two storms possibly develop?
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:16 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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FEMA has suspended rescue efforts in New Orleans because of the thugs trying to take over the city. These folks are no longer looters, lets call them what they are, insurgents. These mobs are using this situation as a chance to inflict the harm on police that they have likely wished they could have during normal situations. I'm reminded of the old NWA song, "F*** the Police." Despicable. The active army really needs to go in. Innocent people are dying because a bunch of Crips, Bloods, and who knows what else are trying to destroy the city.
| Floridacane |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:16 PM |
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Re: new addition
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On CNN they said "Hurricane Hunters have 15 planes and they moved 13 of them before the storm. Unknown damage sustained to the remaining planes."
I didn't know they had that many planes.
| Girlnascar |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:21 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*
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This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard
| NewWatcher |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:23 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons
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Go back a couple pages to HankFrank's last post, it is very informative
on both these things you are asking about.
| Big Red Machine |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:24 PM |
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Re: Dr. Lyons *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*
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This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard
| Wxwatcher2 |
| (Storm Tracker) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:37 PM |
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Re: new addition
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Quote:
I wasn't bashing Bill Gates, I know he has giving alot, I was just saying that they (Relief ORG's) need money, alot of it. I also know tha Walmart has donated as well. There are so many wealthy people in this country, that when a disaster, especially one of this magnatude, we nver here from them. That's along with the Entertainers as well. I know in the days and weeks, perhaps months, we will see the money flowing in. I was just ranting.
Don't loose site of the fact that average citizens contributions count just as much if not more than these billionaires.
A lot of money is donated and those that donate do not always wave their hands saying "HEY LOOK WHAT I"VE JUST GIVEN".
We ALL need to give to this effort. It will add.
| Wingman51 |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:38 PM |
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Looting
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Someone in the office this morning likened the situation to the Movie "Escape from New York" - Situation in FL is many people over reacting to suspected fuel shortages - lots of lines and higher prices - but hey, we still have roofs (or Blue Tarps) over our heads
| DebbiePSL |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 04:54 PM |
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Re: new addition
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I read they lost one of the planes and it was one of the newer ones. They were having some work done on it and didn't get it out in time
| DebbiePSL |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 05:00 PM |
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Re: new addition
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Wal-Mart donated a million. Also alot of entertainers donated and having fund raisers. You know it is those who have the least that give the most.
| zmdz01 |
| (Weather Watcher) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 05:06 PM |
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Gulfport during Katrina (video)
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Everyone,
Here is a link for some video that our local NBC affiliate has of Katrina in Gulfport, MS. It is amazing raw footage. Notice how the brake lights on the floating car comes on? Probably means that someone is still inside the vehicle.
http://nbc4la.feedroom.com/index.jsp?fr_story=c989c514a12c6dc1725e355acc966f2d781e48dd
Marcus
| Cpt.Napalm |
| (Registered User) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 06:00 PM |
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Re: new addition
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I am here at Eglin AFB, FL (Fort Walton Beach, Destin area). We were just briefed that the refugees ( ~ 2,100) from Keesler AFB will be making their way here to live in the billeting, un used dormatories, and temporary lodging facilities here. They ill also be building a tent city in the Okaloosa County fairgrounds.
I don't know if the hurricane hunters from Keesler are included in the refugees coming here. I knwo we fly some C-130s out of Eglin so it might make sense.
| native |
| (Weather Guru) |
| Thu Sep 01 2005 06:15 PM |
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Re: new addition
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That's good news for those folks.
Has anyone heard from danielw (danny) yet??
Calling Disaster Master...where are you? You have a great wealth of information and we are wondering if you have anything new to share with us? When is it that you're being deployed again?
| LHV |
| (Registered User) |
| Fri Sep 02 2005 01:54 PM |
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Re: new addition
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test post
::