MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Thu Sep 01 2005 10:13 PM
Tropical Storm Maria Forms in Atlantic, No Threat to the US

Tropical Depression #14 has become Tropical Storm Maria, it is expected to stay offshore.

We're also tracking another wave in the Atlantic, 92L is the next up that will need to be watched as it moves It currently has a decent chance of become a tropical depression over the next few days. This isn't as likely to be a fish spinner.

A full synopsis of TD 14, TD Lee, and 92L can be found in Clark Evans' blog entry below, from HF in this thread, and from the thoughts of others on the Storm Forum.

Some long range models suggest a low forming in the gulf toward the end of the 120 hour forecast period, but there is not enough evidence yet to say that with any certainty.

Dr William Gray has updated his predictions, but leaves the numbers unchanged. See This link for the report.

The situation in Louisana, Mississippi, and Alabama continues to come to light, discussion on this should be in the disaster forum You do not have to register to post in the disaster forum.

Discussion of other issues relating to Katrina (outside of the immediately affected area) like gas prices, the crazy gas lines, etc can be found here.

Event Related Links
General Links
Color Sat of Gulf
RAMSDIS high speed visible Floater of Storms

Graphic showing elevations of New Orleans
Emergency Management/County info
Gulf Coast Storm Alert Network
FloridaDisaster.org - Florida Emergency Management
Mississippi Emer. Management
State of Florida Division of Emergency Management/floridadisaster.org
Louisiana Emergency Management

Video/Audio Links
NOAA Weather Radio out of New Orleans
Hurricane City - Live Audio and Video
HurricaneTrack/Mark Sudduth HIRT Team
Police scanner stream from New Orleans

Television/Radio
WWL TV 4 (CBS Affiliate in New Orleans) - KHOU is streaming WWL TV as well HERE
ABC 26 TV (ABC Affiliate in New Orleans)
WDSU Channel 6 (NBC Affiliate New Orleans)
Fox 8 (New Orleans)
WTIX 690 News Radio
WWL 870 News Radio
WTOK 11 / Missippii Alabama ABC Affiliate -- Jason Kelly is assisting Operations Here
Hurricane Now - Video reports from former CNN hurrican reporter Jeff Flock
Weathervine.com
Joseph Johnston's Mobile Bay Webcam
WKRG 5 in Mobile/Pensacola
WPMI Channel 15 from Mobile

Other
NOLA - Everything New Orleans
South Mississippi Sun Herald
Al.com - everything Alabama - Katrina Photos
AP and Reuters Photos from Katrina areas (Continually updated)
A few employees of DirectNic in the a Data Center still working on a diesel generator in central Business district are feeding out updates from downtown.
Continual News update text from WWLTV In New Orleans - alt link
-- Looking for more Video/Audio links for the approach areas, please let us know if you have any links/information!

Maria

Animated model plots of Maria

Invest 92L


Katie
(Weather Guru)
Thu Sep 01 2005 10:21 PM
Re: Future Systems

I am a little concerned with 92L....probably need to keep a close eye out....

LI Phil
(User)
Thu Sep 01 2005 11:01 PM
DANNY!!!

I just got a phone call from DanielW aka Danny...he's alive and of course, working his butt off to help others...he says Hattiesburg is in as bad a shape as most of the rest of the coast but he's alive and this was the first time he got phone service...

he will try to post on the weekend when he can get internet access...he's aware of the situation across the rest of the gulf, as they have been able to access the NO station wltv (i think)...

our conversation was brief, as i'm sure he's got other calls to make, but the most important thing is he's alive...and well, although the situation where he is is really bad...

this is the best news i've gotten all night


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Thu Sep 01 2005 11:02 PM
Re: DANNY!!!

Quote:

I just got a phone call from DanielW aka Danny...he's alive and of course, working his butt off to help others...he says Hattiesburg is in as bad a shape as most of the rest of the coast but he's alive and this was the first time he got phone service...

he will try to post on the weekend when he can get internet access...he's aware of the situation across the rest of the gulf, as they have been able to access the NO station wltv (i think)...

our conversation was brief, as i'm sure he's got other calls to make, but the most important thing is he's alive...and well, although the situation where he is is really bad...

this is the best news i've gotten all night




Same here. Excellent to hear. Seems like everyone from here is accounted for.


SkeetoBiteAdministrator
(Master of Maps)
Thu Sep 01 2005 11:22 PM
Re: DANNY!!!

Man, that is GREAT news!!! I'm glad he's ok, and I'm glad he's finally getting a chance to work on something when the sun is up.

Ricreig
(User)
Thu Sep 01 2005 11:26 PM
Re: DANNY!!!

Quote:

I just got a phone call from DanielW aka Danny...he's alive and of course,

this is the best news i've gotten all night


THANK GOD! Danny has been an instrumental and caring member of our forum and has done a super job for many of us. I 'met' him after Camille when I was stationed in Biloxi in 1969 as an instructor....he was one of the 'street urchins' that lived around the base and I probably tripped over him at least once as the military troops stationed there helped the civilian populace recover from that devestation. He and I became reaquainted last year during TSFH (tm) and he has communicated with me almost continuously wth his help, concern for my health and being 'just a friend'. I am SO glad he is safe! I am glad that Katrina was unable to steal such a caring person as Danny from us. She did enough damage, killed enough people and cost so many peoples dreams that this news was sorely needed. I am glad that our 'forum family' is again more complete. We still have a few who probably cannot check in, and I continue to pray they will also prove to be safe.

ohioaninmiss
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:21 AM
Re: DANNY!!!

Hurray!!!!

This made my night. Thanks for passing on the news, Phil.


Big Red Machine
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:53 AM
Re: DANNY!!!

OH THANK GOODNESS PHIL!

I was really worried about him!

That's awesome.


Catmando
(Registered User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 01:06 AM
Re: Future Systems

I have 2 questions please-First, my understanding, although limited, was there would be an increase in landfalls for the next several years becasuse of the bermuda ridge. Is it also forcasted there will be such HIGH amount of storms such as we've seen so far for the next 10-12 years? So bottom line-Is this "cycle" we're in for guidance because of the Bermuda Ridge, or 15-20 storms per year?

Secondly, I see the models represent NHC-GFDL-UKMET-BAMD-BAMM-A98E and LBAR. Besides NHC, can you tell me what those initials stand for, and which ones have a history of being the most accurate. Thanks!

I figured as long as Im sitting here in Vero Beach watching the storms coming in, might as well get some education.....:)




I used to have a really cool signature, but lost it in hurricane Jeanne


tashina
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 01:27 AM
Re: Future Systems

I don't know much but since no one much seems to be online tonight, I'll mention that the names I hear most respected around here are GFDL, UKMET and NOGAPS. You can read at this link to learn more:

http://www.hurricanealley.net/hurmdls.htm


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 02 2005 01:48 AM
Re: Future Systems

NHC has a model reference guide available for the models you list at http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutmodels.shtml, but note that some of the information about the dynamical models is a bit out of date.

The Bermuda ridge is a transitory feature; seasonal activity might be slightly related to it as far as it is influenced by ENSO and PDO cycles, but largely it is not the main player in seasonal storm numbers. Since it is a transitory feature, it is largely on a storm-to-storm basis as to whether or not it will be there to allow a storm to track further west or recurve; any statistical correlation is likely pretty small (likely some years with a strong ridge but few storms and/or few landfalls) and we've seen many active years with very few landfalls. We've just gotten lucky -- or are catching up for many years of misses, if you want to look at it that way -- over the past couple-few seasons.


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 02 2005 02:01 AM
Katrina's Influence

This will be my last post an Katrina, the remnants of which are developing extratropically in NE Canada and about to get trapped somewhat to the west of Greenland (good riddance).

For those looking for information on a particular section of New Orleans, the experimental NOAA research program designed to gather high-resolution data of areas where storms make landfall has made available high-resolution imagery of much of New Orleans (to match that made available for Mississippi a day or two ago).

You can get to it at:
http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/090E30A_KATRINA.HTM

Note that in many cases, the images are not rotated to match their actual orientation (e.g. the top part of the image is not always north). What I found helpful was to use Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/) in hybrid road/satellite mode to correlate ground features and get my bearings. For instance, in the Kenner/Metairie area, many of the images by I-10 are oriented such that the top of the image is to the east.

The full collection of images can be found at http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM. I hope this helps some of those in the storm's path.


Miami Beach, FLA USA
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 02:43 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

My message is human not political:

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have complete incompetency running this relief operation, and although I commend him and provide the utmost respect for any individual attempting to undertake this rescue operation (Dir. Brown), the statement, "that just today" he learned of these poor people suffering at the Convention Center and throughout the City of New Orleans is possibly the most disconcerting thing...causing me great fear and anxiety for those poor souls trapped in the toxic waters. Our outrage at this type of response must be known...this could easily be any of us from Florida going through what our neighbors are... we learned this all before from Andrew.

We are facing a potential storm off Puerto Rico in 4 days...think about it.


Paulf
(Registered User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 03:03 AM
Re: Future Systems

92L sounds as though it will be a big one, praying it stays out to sea But the way things have gone this season? wonder if we,ll be calling this MARIA before saturday?

zacros
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Sep 02 2005 05:40 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

I think that I have finally heard enough complaining about the response of our officials to the situation on the GulfCoast. When I think about how I would handle such an immense operation, I am overwhelmed. Please remember that the day after the storm, no one realized that New Orleans was about to get flooded. Please remember that Katrina was still making her way up the Mississippi River, knocking out power and further reducing anyones ability to respond. Please remember that there is no power and no phones in the area; thereby making communication extremely difficult. Without effective communication, it is impossible to organize the response needed to this type of disaster in a matter of days. As well, the shear amount of water and damage to infrastructure in the city and the surronding areas (including MS and AL) make it nearly impossible to move around the city and the surronding area. Please remember that National Guard troops are somewhere else with there families and lives when this type of situation occurrs and it takes time to mobalize them to the area. Please remember that resources were already stretched thin by the amount of response required in Florida last year. Please remember that for every decision to direct resources at one problem, another gets left alone; thus allowing those just sitting there watching to cry that nothing is being done. Please remember that you can volunteer to help as well, and, instead of complaining, offer to lend a hand.

I, for one, would like to see all of the newscasters in the area step in to help out instead of reporting (note the number of aerial shots of people stranded) that not enough is being done. This is rediculous and does not help the situation. Sorry for my rant, remove it if necessary, but after you do, at least encourage people to help instead of complain.


Takingforever
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 06:17 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Quote:

I, for one, would like to see all of the newscasters in the area step in to help out instead of reporting (note the number of aerial shots of people stranded) that not enough is being done.




Actually they are, but you won't see much news about that because most newscasters don't put themselves as the news. It's not very journalist like. But they are helping, so don't think that they are just sitting there and shooting footage. They are helping out, because the camera zoom can see alot more then the human eye in those search helicopters.

But don't expect them to help the next couple of days, they are getting shot at alot more since last night. And about 4 thousand guards are coming ot the city today, so soething big is about to happen. Hopefully everyone will be out of that hellhole by Monday.


zacros
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Sep 02 2005 07:04 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

I must call myself out for stating that the newscasters should be doing more. After my little diatribe, I too started complaining. Many apologies to those that read the end of my previous post. It is a tense situation that can only be rectified in time.

However, I will continue my appeal to people to help. Donate items, food, clothing, blood, money, etc. Volunteer to house someone displaced by the storm. Do something, don't just complain.


Takingforever
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 07:07 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Don't sweat it, I think everyone is effected by this more os then December 26 2004. Afterall these are our people and know them we don't want ot see them suffer..


As long as you are doing something to help, it all that matters in the end.


Anyway, any new news on these Three Tropical waves out there? Will we see Maria today?


Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Sep 02 2005 07:33 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Quote:

Actually they are, but you won't see much news about that because most newscasters don't put themselves as the news.




NBC had a story on yesterday? where one of their reporters was surveying damage in a boat and wound up rescuing people instead. They mentioned the rescuing as part of "what people were going through" so it wasn't focused on the rescue as much as the people they were rescuing. But it showed that they were helping.

Also, don't forget that the photos by the news organizations do more good than anything else. They show the world what is going on. They stimulate people to want to help. That is invaluable to the people living in the destroyed zones.

=============

A couple of news quotes I caught today (Source - Associated Press):

"The Air Force was sending in a U-2 surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft to get detailed, high resolution photographs of the Gulf Coast area."

"At 4:35 a.m. Friday, an explosion rocked a chemical storage facility near the Mississippi River east of the French Quarter, said Lt. Michael Francis of the Harbor Police. A series of smaller blasts followed and then acrid, black smoke that could be seen even in the dark. The vibrations were felt all the way downtown."

"the Pentagon is looking at ways to bring home from the war zones individual service members whose families suffered from the hurricane and need their help, said Lt. Col. Trey Cate, based in Qatar."

--RC


emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 07:42 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Yesterday we were talking about companies donating. I just read this:

Wal-Mart President and CEO Lee Scott committed $15 million from Wal-Mart
As part of this commitment, Wal-Mart will establish mini-Wal-Mart stores
in areas impacted by the hurricane. Items such as clothing, diapers, baby
wipes, food, formula, toothbrushes, bedding and water will be given out free
of charge to those with a demonstrated need.

Great News!


weatherwatcher2
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Sep 02 2005 07:56 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Im sure this question has been here before but can someone please explain why the Army corp of engineers would build the levys to only withstand up to a cat 3? I just feel that if you know that you have a city that only 30 percent of the people drive and sits below sea level and just the whole damn situation. why?

emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:17 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

The Army Corps will build whatever they are told to build. They built it to a level 3 because that's what they were authorized to do.

Here's an article on it:

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/083005cccawwlunwatering.45718845.html


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:26 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Good article... I tell ya it is not a good thing for everyone to keep harping on what should have been done, what could have been done, or whose
fault it is. None of those answers will help the people in New Orleans
and elsewhere. Nobody seemed to be worried enuough in the last hundred years about New Orleans to do anything about it. I used to live in Baton Rouge and visited New Orleans regularly. When you are there the levees and Lake Ponch and The Miss arent something you think about daily. You dont even realize you are below sea level. We cant be ready for everything all the time. My big question now is, since we did get a Cat 4 in N.O. with major devestation, are they planning on rebuilding back the
way it was or what. I am worried about that since NOW we do know what can happen. On the other hand, the city cannot just "not exist" for years in order to rebuild correctly.... or can it.


Juls
(Registered User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:31 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

I was just going to reply that is probably what happened. As an engineer of sorts myself, we tend to come up with a solution that management won't approve the time, $$ and resources for, so you are left with something that will later take more time, $ and resources to correct or "upgrade". If you remember this was a somewhat publicitized issue with the shuttle. Hopefully if they rebuild, it will be done rightl but then again who knows what the future holds - if we build it for a cat 5 and then something we never dreamed of occurs like that movie cat 7??

Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:36 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Quote:

My message is human not political:



Um...your message is redundant.

As in -- didn't you post this in the last thread?


AdvAutoBob
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:37 AM
Re: DANNY!!!

Quote:

I just got a phone call from DanielW aka Danny...he's alive and of course, working his butt off to help others...he says Hattiesburg is in as bad a shape as most of the rest of the coast but he's alive and this was the first time he got phone service...






GREAT news! (breath I've been holding now expelling in a giant sigh of relief...)


emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:38 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

"On the other hand, the city cannot just "not exist" for years in order to rebuild correctly.... or can it. "

They may have too. There is going to be so much rebuilding it's gonna take years and years. I heard today something that really irked me. Many police officers turned in their badges and said they lost everything and they are leaving. It's not worth it to say and risk their lives. I disagree with that. They signed an oath. I know it's tough, but for gods sake everyone else lost everything too. So many people are going to be blamed. I'm coming to the conclusion that it's Katrina's fault. It was so diffucult to get in there in a timely fashion. Even with all the preparation in the world this would have been a horrible mess.


luki
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:55 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

I know this post probably dont belong here but i wanted to get this out to as many as I could,Ive been a long time lurker and post only occasionaly due to the fact im still learning about these systems and my imput wouldnt really help,but that beside the matter.Ill get to the point now.
My heart has been breaking for these people throughout the gulf coast,so i decided to do some calling to see what i could do to help beside just donating money,i was given a web site and phone number that can be used to offer to take in a displaced family,apparently theres has been an overwhelming amount of poeple calling in to offer rooms beds etc that the various states felt the web site was needed.
the web site is
www.SHAREYOURHOME.ORG
the number to call is
1-888-827-2525
please pass this along to all you know,even if you can you only place 1 adult thats 1 less person out there wondering where they will go.
Sorry if i posted this in the wrong forum.


Ed in Va
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 02 2005 09:14 AM
Re: Future Systems

I thought TD 14 was supposed to be moving NW...sure looks like due west, at least in the last few frames:
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/watl-wv-loop.html


Beaumont, TX
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 09:30 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Katrina did what hurricanes have done for centuries in moving heat from the tropics. Nature is nature. The response of the federal
government was terrible and slow in coming. I am proud to say Texas is taking so many of these evacuees and getting kids into
our schools here. I think the officials of the states hit are doing the best they can. It is the federal government that was slow in
responding.

Does anyone know the long term outlook on the system that is at low latitude between Africa and the islands? Our local
meterologist said it could be in the Carribean in about a week.


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 09:36 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

This is cut and pasted from HF's statement the other day... think
it still holds true


92L has threat written on it. the system is getting better organized.. holding down 1.5 t-ratings and under decreasing easterly shear. the globals are developing it and the GFDL types are making a monster out of it. most track it to the northeastern caribbean or thereabouts in about five days. i'm not a big proponent of the vacillating GFDL open trough/major hurricane progs... but early indications are that it may be a hurricane at that time. big ridge settling in off the east coast around that timeframe.. if it isn't hanging on the trough ahead of it, this may become a threat further west.


me again.... also Clark has a good blog on it. check there


Steve H1
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 09:44 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

92L looks close to dissapation right now, but may have a chance to develop yet. Low has been positioned further north, but surprisingly it looks terrible today. But things can change quickly. The GFDL dissipates the system now, where it had a major hurricane last night. EC dissipates it, UKMET develops it. Let's see what happens today. Strange season. Cheers!!

Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:04 AM
92L

people have been saying that 92L system was supposed to develope any update since like 2 days ago. I still think it will develope, but like what HF said, there will be a ridge over the east coast..what does that mean?..and head farther west..do you mean into the GOM?

DJINFLA
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:09 AM
Re: Future Systems

I don't post too often because I'm more of a learner, but I've been visiting for years. Question: Why is Lee considered a Tropical Storm, but TD #14 is not? Lee has 30 mph winds with 1010 mb, while TD14 had 35 mph winds and 1008 mb. I don't get it. What makes one a tropical storm, and the other a depression?

Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:12 AM
Re: Future Systems

neither LEE or 14 are TS's.

DJINFLA
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:17 AM
Re: Future Systems

OOPS! I feel stupid this morning. Didn't read the info and didn't realize Lee was no longer a TS. Now I know what I usually just read. Guess another cup of coffee is needed.

As for 97, I sure hope that it somehow disappears. Someone mentioned that a model that yesterday had it at a Cat 5 simply dissipates it today. How come so much change in a model in less than a day? Guess it's too soon to give a sigh of relief?


Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:20 AM
Re: Future Systems

lol DJ its 92**** not 97, and if the model can change from cat 5 strength to dissipation overnight then that goes to show how much they dont know whats going to happen, we have time to watch it.

native
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:20 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Firstly - DANNY!!!! Thank God! We were all so worried. Thank God!

Secondly - Is anyone else having a rough time with NRL's site today? It's loading about as fast as a herd of turtles running uphill through peanut butter.

I am trying to get the latest SAT images on 92L. I'd be: (a) interested in view them and (b) like the get a MET's lastest opinion of the status of that.


Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:24 AM
Re: Katrina's Influence

Quote:

Firstly - DANNY!!!! Thank God! We were all so worried. Thank God!

Secondly - Is anyone else having a rough time with NRL's site today? It's loading about as fast as a herd of turtles running uphill through peanut butter.

I am trying to get the latest SAT images on 92L. I'd be: (a) interested in view them and (b) like the get a MET's lastest opinion of the status of that.




try http://weather.unisys.com/hurricane/atlantic/2005/ and scroll down tot he individual storm history


FlaMommy
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:28 AM
Spaghetti Models

HI Good Morning, Im glad to hear Daniel is okay. I dont think i hav ever prayed so much, than i have this past week...anyways i was wondering fi someone could post a link for some spaghetti models of TD#14... thanks becky

RYAN - Happy Birthday on monday...watch out for those storms


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:31 AM
Re: Spaghetti Models

TRY THIS NAVY SITE

http://tcweb.fnmoc.navy.mil/tc-bin/tc_home.cgi

SORRY Fl Mommy that was for Native

this is for you mommy

http://www.sfwmd.gov/org/omd/ops/weather/plots/storm_14.gif


HanKFranK
(User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:34 AM
same story

quick rundown this morning:
lee is being tracked as a remnant low right now... they'll issue forecasts on it again if it redevelops convection, but for now it's just a swirl.
14L should be maria when the advisory comes out.. shortly. it's been persistent and shows the organizational structure typical of a tropical storm in a decreasing shear environment. consensus track is still out into the north atlantic to the east of bermuda. may interact with the developing low pressure area to the west.
92L had a substantial amount of convection last night on its western side that has mostly sheared off.. today it's a broad circulation with scattered convection nearby. still getting easterly shear but less so as time progresses. the system is taking a low trajectory.. and not developing as quickly as numerous models have been suggesting, so the long-term effect may be for a more southerly track. it has fair to good chances of development.
the complex feature shown on models off the east coast has more model consensus on it now... most are developing a two-pronged sort of strung out trough with a northward-moving low out near bermuda, and another weaker low trying to develop near the bahamas or straits of florida. not sure how accurate the overhung trough depicted off the east coast is as it may split.. rather than just hang like a shield off the east coast. still too far ahead to filter out the fine details.
HF 1433z02september


Cindi
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:42 AM
Re: Katrina Relief/Future Systems

This is my first post here, I am still trying to learn. I have been lurking since Friday...all I can say is I have no words for how I feel about all of this. My heart goes out to all of the people. Also, can't help thinking that if the storm had gone where NHC had first predicted it (Panama City, FL area) I'd now be going through what they are. We have many evacuees in our area, many people are reaching out to them...hotels in the area are calling all of the people who had Labor Day reservations to cancel to make room for the evacuees. They are charging them 1/2 price for rooms. After Labor Day, the rooms will be going for about $20 a night. Area churches are cooking dinners for people. People in town are offering rooms in their homes. We have a 2 bedroom house...my son (15 yrs) is giving up his room for a while so people can stay with us. If we don't hear soon from the Red Cross (we signed up with our church), we will go out to the beach and find a family. I am sure we will be able to, since the news media reported that parking lots, etc are full of families sleeping in their cars. One family in Callaway, FL (where I live) has 21 people in their home and are asking area people for help w/food and such. The outpour here is incredible. Schools in the area are allowing students to enroll w/ no indentifcation/information, etc and will be giving them free lunches. Gulf Coast Community College is allowing college students to attend college free and is offfering library/internet access/showers to any of the evacuees. Restaurtants are either giving free or deeply discounted dinners to evacuees.

Yes, gas is going up around here, roughly $2.89 a gallon...although I did see 3.38 at one place. Ironically, one place around here is selling their regular gas for $2.89 and their premium for $2.83. Rumor has it that there will be a gas shortage, but because I have been here lurking for a week now, I know that rushing out in a panic to buy gas is not the answer, so I will not do that. Also, I have not seen long lines at the gas pump here.

I just pray that we can get these people out of NO. I don't know whose fault it is, nor do I cast blame on anyone. We (as a nation) need to quit blame calling and passing the buck and need to work together to get those people out. It is such an atrocity...

To keep this on topic, I am concerned about that 92L, I have been reading about. Hopefully, it will fizzle out like someone just suggested it would. The last thing we need in our area is another hurricane. I can see mass panic w/people chaotically trying to get out of town around here and it would be a nightmare. I have no met training, so I will just keep lurking to see what happens. Thanks to everyone around here that has keep me and others informed.


Ed in Va
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 02 2005 10:48 AM
Re: Katrina Relief/Future Systems

11:00 discussion on Maria...looks like a fish spinner, though maybe a Nova Scotia threat:

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/at200514.disc.html


native
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 02 2005 11:00 AM
Re: Katrina Relief/Future Systems

Yep..it's official:

Quote:

TROPICAL STORM MARIA PROBABILITIES NUMBER 5
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
11 AM AST FRI SEP 02 2005 ; PRESENT MOVEMENT TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST OR 300 DEGREES AT 8 KT





You were right....definitely a more westerly component than before.


native
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 02 2005 11:09 AM
Re: Future Systems

DJINFLA - Well, there ya go...14's now Maria. Good question though....HF often discusses his opinion of NHC's somewhat inconsistent criteria for classifying (or not) some of the systems this year. (However, if you've been lurking for awhile, you probably already knew that)

HF - Is it at all possible that Maria (or at least her presence) will interfer/hinder the developement of 92L or is 92 still too far south of Maria. I thought 92 was around 7/8N and I see that it's 10N now?

there's enough distance between them so that they wouldn't interact. maria could leave a weakness for it to move towards, but i think it'll stay fairly weak, low, and on a westward track.. for the next 3-4 days. -HF


Katie
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 02 2005 11:53 AM
Re: Future Systems

Phil, wonderful news about Danny...keep us posted if you talk to him again.

Big Red Machine
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:07 PM
Re: Future Systems *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*

This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard

Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:08 PM
Re: Future Systems

Darn I tried to post a minute ago, but I guess I forgot to hit the continue button.

Incoming cell phone service now restored to Jackson County MS as of this am. Thought you'd especially like to know this, Kissy, if you're checking in! Or anyone else trying to reach folks down there.

I have internet access from work now, as my PC was just set up, so I can check for PM a couple times during the day.

I had something else but now I can't remember it! Oh well.

EDIT: Last night found info on the web -- Pascagoula did get 134mph winds, if didn't say if that was a gust or sustained winds, because they did get hurricane force winds above 90mph starting at 7am and continuing for quite a lot of the day.


Ed in Va
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:18 PM
Re: Future Systems *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*

This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard

GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:26 PM
Re: Future Systems

Big Red, my sentiments go with your emotions because my daughter has just been called to go in the military branch that she is in and help out risking her life and because of what she does she is more at risk than the soldiers with guns, (although she is a sharpshooter it is not her job.) But, Germany in the era you were talking about were not used to freedom to come and go as they pleased and they were used to being shot on sight for much less than what has been happening in NO, So they were easier to help. We on the otherhand have been invaded by souless, conscienceless gangs of people that resemble the Feudal states in the beginning of recorded time in Europe. They are neither American nor human. The humans are suffering. The gangs are not.

I am keeping an eye on the prediction regarding something possibly spinning up for a sneak attack(NoGAPs) prayerfully it is a computer model that needs a vacation in Florida not predicting storms.


Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:26 PM
Re: 92L

TWC is saying that 92L could be a GOM threat, again...they said this exactly "coming up at 50 past the hour we'll have the tropical update where we will be watchign the GOM, again folks"

That's likely not 92L, but the near-shore development HF referred to a few posts back. It's WAY too early to even be thinking about 92L to the Gulf...like a week too early. --Clark


Big Red Machine
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:27 PM
Re: Future Systems

Most definitely, Ed. If they had the foresight to purchase 10,000 body bags and put them in a warehouse, they should have also had the foresight to purchase items like that.

I'm more sad about the whole thing than anything else. I just don't want this to happen again.


RyanRedCross1
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:29 PM
Re: 92L

FYI

Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

Access to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:29 PM
Re: Future Systems

I wish it wasnt true, but i disagree. New Orleans hasnt had a direct hit like
this in over 100 years. You cant have water and MRE's sitting around for 100 years just in case. I dont know what the answer is, but im not sure that is it.


Big Red Machine
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:33 PM
Re: Future Systems

True, good point New Watcher. Plus there's no guarantee those would have gotten to those who need it anyway. I'm really not sure what the solution is. I guess I just feel that someone should have had a plan and it shouldn't have taken 3 days for that to go in effect. It's not like this is a big suprise.

Ryan: You guys are doing awesome work all over the place. Once again. What an awesome organization made up of truly caring people.


susieq
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:44 PM
Re: Future Systems *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*

This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard

Tracey
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:45 PM
Re: Future Systems *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*

This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard

OcalaKT
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 12:59 PM
Re: Future Systems *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*

This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard

ralphfl
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 02 2005 01:02 PM
Re: 92L

Quote:

TWC is saying that 92L could be a GOM threat, again...they said this exactly "coming up at 50 past the hour we'll have the tropical update where we will be watchign the GOM, again folks"




Ok since when has the weather channel went that far into the future? they never go beyound 3-5 days and this is not even a storm yrt plus its closer to africa then us and they are saying watch out the GOM? find this hard to believe anyone watch there insanity at 52 past?


Maybe it was something going to develops in the GOM but i find it very hard to believe them talking about 92l this early.

read clark's add-on to the post. ryan was mixed up about what's what. the hpc progs are showing a gulf system next week, but it isn't related. -HF


Big Red Machine
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 01:08 PM
Re: Future Systems *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*

This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard

NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 01:15 PM
Re: Future Systems

Keeping an eye or two on 92L also and I hope it stays the way it is....
Having said that, there is a lot to be learned in every facet from Katrina.
Preparedness, the lack thereof, how these things work, etc. All usefull information we need (as a nation) to take a look at.
Glad to see Lee and Maria are gonna stir fish instead of coastline.


Also, I couldnt be any happier to hear about Danny!!!!!!!!!!!!


cjgsav
(Registered User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 01:26 PM
Re: Future Systems *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*

This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard

susieq
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 01:42 PM
Re: Future Systems

I'm just his daughter!

Beaumont, TX
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 02:04 PM
Re: Future Systems

So now the thinking is 92L may dissipate? Because if it doesn't it is at such low latitude it could head into the Carribean.
What is causing the dissipation of the system?


kapSt.Cloud
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Sep 02 2005 02:10 PM
Re: Future Systems *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard* *DELETED*

Post deleted by MikeC

Takingforever
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 02:17 PM
Re: Future Systems

Err..They are all gone CJG. Hell till you posted, I didn't even know what those post where about..thanks tho.

Anywho, all I wish is that someone would stop smirking and look like there a joke we don't know going on between him and himself.

So 92 is down, but as we should know till it's truly gone, you not think Nate will show up Monday.


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Sep 02 2005 02:54 PM
Re: Future Systems

Folks please read the forum rules about politics. Discuss weather here and news, but please keep political overtones out. Regardless of where you are politically. This site is not flhurriblame.com. Right now there is a failure on all levels in all branches and parties of government, and the energy should not be on finding out whom to blame but on fixing the problem.





Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 03:02 PM
Re: Future Systems

Continued thoughts and well-wishes to all affected by Katrina.

For those who care, regarding the Atlantic/Caribbean features HF and Clark have discussed, here is a portion of this afternoon's discussion from the Miami NWS office:

GLOBAL MODELS...ESPECIALLY INCLUDING THE GFS AND NOGAPS
SOLUTIONS...DEEPEN THE WEAK SURFACE LOW PRESENTLY ANALYZED NEAR
30N/77W EARLY NEXT WEEK. OTHERS SUCH AS THE ECMWF AND CMC ARE LESS
ROBUST WITH LOW...HOWEVER THEY STILL INDICATE ELONGATED EAST-WEST
ORIENTED SURFACE TROUGH IN ROUGHLY THE SAME AREA. INITIALLY THIS
LOW WILL SERVE TO BRING DRIER AND COOLER AIR INTO SOUTH FLORIDA
LATE THIS WEEKEND (PERHAPS TEMPS AND DEWPOINTS 3-4 DEGREES
COOLER). THE EFFECT ON LATER PERIODS OF THE FORECAST IS MORE
UNCERTAIN...WITH RAIN CHANCES POSSIBLY INCREASING BY MID-WEEK
SHOULD THIS SYSTEM MOVE CLOSER TO US.


tpratch
(Moderator)
Fri Sep 02 2005 03:02 PM
Re: Future Systems

We're already up to M with the peak weeks away. I know Dr. Gray stood by his numbers, but is there anything in the weather patterns to suggest a sudden dropoff from the record pace we've seen so far?

*EDIT Yeah, I meant just over a week, but for some reason that came out as "weeks". OOPS

Also, if you really want to discuss politics, I'd recommend going to Fark.com. Accounts are free, and every "Katrina Aftermath" thread there seems to be rife with politics. It might help you to appreciate the politic-free setting being established here as well

Cheers.


Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 03:06 PM
Re: Future Systems

tpratch:

The peak isn't weeks away. Historically, the season's peak is around September 10 - only 8 days away - with a smaller, second peak around Oct. 15. The NHC has a graphic regarding this at http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastprofile.shtml

And unfortunately, nothing suggests a "sudden dropoff."


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Sep 02 2005 03:16 PM
Re: Future Systems

Oddly enough, that "Downtown New Orleans" blog from the Directnic center was a serious contender for me moving the flhurricane servers, actually still is. The hosting company there, Zipa, was what I was aiming for. I might still after things calm down, they've been doing really well so far, even if they had to take down a few sites, like SA, for it.

Steve H1
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 03:23 PM
Re: Future Systems

Although things are rather quiet in the tropics from a "threat" perspective. The only area that may be of concern is the area east of Florida. The 12Z models (GFS/NOGAPS & particularly the UKMET) are showing development just off the east coast of Florida, with the UKMET bullish on a system east of Miami then paralleling the east coast of Florida while strengthening, but staying off shore. The GFS and NOGAPS show similar solution, albeit weaker. 92L seems to be fading but goes on the watch list, and Ex-Lee and Maria want to run off to the high seas together. So the main area worth watching is going to be near the Bahamas late weekend and we should watch model trends on this one. Cheers!!

tpratch
(Moderator)
Fri Sep 02 2005 03:28 PM
Re: Future Systems

Yeah, better to take down SA and upset a few goons* than to not be able to provide the service they are now. It's been a great source of information.


*Goons in this case is not derrogatory. SA = SomethingAwful.com, their members call themselves goons. I presumed Mike knew since he called them SA - this note is for others.

**As much as having to switch gears to move to a new forum to post may calm someone down, at least it's a place to vent

***Apologies for having fun breaking in that forum. Seeing it empty when I came across it just filled me with the need to purge some vitriol.


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Sep 02 2005 04:02 PM
Re: Future Systems

Ok, here it goes, I know everyone is upset about the situation. I've created a forum for these.

As the discription reads

People are upset, confused, angry, about Katrina, the response. A series of personal disasters amongst the larger disaster is beginning. Here's a place we'll allow rants, raves, etc. This forum shouldn't be read by anyone.

The link is

http://flhurricane.com/cyclone/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=flhurriflame


ralphfl
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 02 2005 04:21 PM
Re: Future Systems

Quote:

Ok, here it goes, I know everyone is upset about the situation. I've created a forum for these.

As the discription reads

People are upset, confused, angry, about Katrina, the response. A series of personal disasters amongst the larger disaster is beginning. Here's a place we'll allow rants, raves, etc. This forum shouldn't be read by anyone.

The link is

http://flhurricane.com/cyclone/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=flhurriflame





Thank you! this means i can read this forum again .Its 1 thing to argue about canes as at least that is what we are here about is canes but this other stuff i can read on millions of sites like Aol etc.

So what happened to 92l? looks like they think its nomore well lets hope we can get past the holiday without anything coming to the U.S.

Thanks to everyone who helps with these great url's to plots and models has helped me a lot this season so thank you again.


Takingforever
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 02 2005 05:06 PM
Dead topic till The Nate

this means i can read this forum again...

Also means posting will stop here for hours till The Nate shows up.


Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 05:36 PM
Trough/Bahamas

I realize I'm essentially regurgitating info available on the front page, so please feel free to delete this if it is inappropriate. However, I'm paying more and more attention to the potential for development near the Bahamas or elsewhere along the trough sometime next week - the potential for a favorable pattern for development certainly exists - and so I figured I'd post the portions of the other Florida east coast NWS discussions from this afternoon regarding this potential:

From Jacksonville:
LONG TERM...12Z GFS MORE AGGRESSIVE IN DEVELOPING QUASI STATIONARY
CLOSED SFC LOW DEVELOPING OVER THE BAHAMAS. 06Z GFS AND OTHER
GUIDANCE NOT NEARLY SO AGGRESSIVE SO HAVE DISCOUNTED THIS FEATURE FOR
NOW.

From Melbourne:
MON/FRI...
BROAD TROFING OVER THE WRN ATLC WILL PREVAIL THROUGH MUCH OF NEXT
WEEK AS A SERIES OF WEAK TROPICAL DISTURBANCES WORK THEIR WAY AROUND
THE WESTERN PERIPHERY OF THE ATLC RIDGE. THE CONTINENTAL RIDGE OVER
THE PLAINS/MIDWEST WILL GRADUALLY MOVE OFF THE MID ATLC/NEW ENGLAND
COAST BY TUE AFTN. AS THE RIDGE BEGINS TO MOVE OFFSHORE...GFS
DEVELOPS A CLOSED SURFACE LOW JUST N OF THE BAHAMAS...WHICH THEN
RETROGRADES BACK TOWARD THE NE FL COAST ON WED. WOULD PREFER TO SEE
THIS LOW BEGIN TO FORM FIRST BEFORE BUYING INTO THE SOLUTION


GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 02 2005 06:02 PM
Re: Trough/Bahamas

I just clicked on the interactive GOES satellite and the area over the Bahamas seems to have gathered more convection during the afternoon. It ominously enlarging. I am hoping this is the heating of the day clouds and there is no circulation at any level.

LadyStorm
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 02 2005 07:08 PM
Re:Before "During and After pics from Katrina

Some amazing and sobering stuff:

http://www.sky-chaser.com/kat05.htm

http://www.stormchaservideo.com/Hurricane_Katrina/


Jeffmidtown
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:15 PM
Re:Before "During and After pics from Katrina

Good evening from Atlanta....

Just a couple of notes.....

1) Earlier today, WSB and nationally syndicated talk show host Clark Howard was called into active duty as part of a type of back-up to the Georgia National Guard and was sent to Dobbins AFB to help with the evacuees from the Gulf Coast...all 48 hours after his wife having another child

2) Refugees from the storm-ravaged areas that have made it to Atlanta has forced the Red Cross to move one of their shelters to the Alexander Memorial Coliseum at Georgia Tech.

3) The local NBC affiliate 11Alive has raised almost $6 million in only a couple of days with doing most of their cut-ins from the Georgia Power building in Downtown Atlanta.

Take Care


Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:29 PM
Trough/Bahams/3 lows

I think HF, and possibly Clark and/or Steve, mentioned the possibility of up to 3 distinct lows forming from the complex pattern in the Atlantic/Caribbean. Good call, and fascinating to see this come to fruition. From the 805pm NHC discussion:

WEST ATLANTIC...
A COMPLEX SCENARIO IS SHAPING UP OVER THE W ATLC WATERS. THREE
DISTINCT SURFACE LOWS ARE OBSERVED IN SATELLITE IMAGERY AND THE
ISOBARIC ANALYSIS...A 1011 MB LOW E OF JACKSONVILLE NEAR
31N77W...1010 MB LOW NEAR 28N70W...AND A 1011 MB LOW S OF
BERMUDA NEAR 31N64W. . . . THE LOWS ARE EXPECTED TO REMAIN IN THE SAME
NEIGHBORHOOD OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS BUT THEN THE GFS RIPS
ONE LOW NEWD INTO THE N ATLC AND A SECOND LOW DRIFTS WWD TOWARDS
FLORIDA (BUT STILL SITTING OFF THE COAST BY LATE WED). THE
ULTIMATE OUTCOME WILL LARGELY DEPEND ON WHERE AND IF DEEP
CONVECTION PERSISTS...SO STAY TUNED IN THE COMING DAYS.


Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Sep 02 2005 08:52 PM
Re: Trough/Bahams/3 lows

For anyone interested in news about Pascagoula, check out www.gulflive.com. I am still spending every night web-fishing, and just found out that The Mississippi Press has been publising online every day since the storm. All local stuff.

One of the things I read in the Tuesday edition: the highest wind gust before instrument failure was 137mph, and stronger winds followed.


ralphfl
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 02 2005 11:09 PM
Re: Trough/Bahams/3 lows

Ok 2 Hrs and no posts so ill post 1.It looks to me that if something did develop in the west atlantic it would go out by looking at the models that do develop something.It would be nice if we could go a few weeks with nothing coming this way but i pray if a storm does have to come it stays away from the GOM as its Hurting everybody.

While im on everybody please for the love of GOD stop going out and filling your tanks to the rim.I was reading where some states are selling almost 2 times as much gas as people are filling 10 gallon cans along with there tank.Don't people understand they are the ones who are making this shortage and the ones who are driving up the prices of Gas.

Its insane how people complain about looting but gas panic buying is the same thing called hording.Only difference is its not illigal.So people who got 3/4 of a tank there is no need to stop and top if off.

Next storm that comes that extra gas lying around will serve as good fire starters.We still have this month before it slows down so lets pray we get 3 weeks of nothing then the slow down will begin i hope.

BTW the slowdown begins around when? is it not the end of this month?


abyrd
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Sep 02 2005 11:09 PM
bouy data

Yet another effect of Katrina.

From the National Data Buoy Center:

"As a result of Hurricane Katrina, the Buoy, C-MAN, Ship, and Drifting Buoy Observations via www.ndbc.noaa.gov are unavailable.

The National Data Buoy Center has been evacuated and communications lines remain down. The extent of damage to the facilities and equipment is not fully known at the present time."

The NDBC is one of my favorite sites.


Multi-Decadal Signal
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 02 2005 11:39 PM
Re: Trough/Bahamas/3 lows

(quote)¿BTW the slowdown begins around when? is it not the end of this month?(/quote)

You are correct Ralph in an historical sense. Oct. usually is when the tail off commences.

I wonder what the odds of another GOM 'cane during the rest of this season are. And what if, G-d forbid, in the upper central Gulf once again?


biochic
(Registered User)
Fri Sep 02 2005 11:55 PM
Re: Trough/Bahamas/3 lows

Hey guys and gals…I have been a lurker… and I have been very impressed with all predictions and assumptions…let me tell you that there are a lot of things that individuals go thru that are just as bad as losing your home to a flood or hurricane that has never crossed your mind. I only hope that you can cross the lines of blame to help all the people that are hurting …I am NOT Liberal or conservative…just someone who has been there. Let people know when they are in danger…but please don’t judge them when they don’t listen. How many times did your Mom tell you to do something that you didn’t do it…?
This is not a good place for them or us as a nation…Who is supporting who?


DebbiePSL
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 02 2005 11:56 PM
Re: Trough/Bahamas/3 lows

It's scarey, I wish the season was over already. I wish they would all be fish spinners but I also know that will not happen. So Lee and Maria should not threaten land so will we have Nate in a day or so?

Multi-Decadal Signal
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 03 2005 12:24 AM
Re: Trough/Bahamas/3 lows




...so will we have Nate in a day or so?




Probably not so soon if at all.


tashina
(Verified CFHC User)
Sat Sep 03 2005 12:25 AM
misleading

I was just watching a rerun of the American Hurricane Relief Concert on streaming video and they were doing a little prerecorded section on the weekend before the hurricane. They showed people hanging out on the beach all unsuspecting and then played a clip of a met showing Katrina's turn to the North, and voiced over the guy and talked about Katrina's "sudden turn to the North". Technically it was sudden, because it was a pretty sharp turn, but they absolutely made it sound like it was a suprising development. How misleading is THAT? They are broadcasting this nationally and acting like these people could have no no idea that a storm was coming their way until the "sudden turn to the North". Guess they've never heard of a cone of probability!

DebbiePSL
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 03 2005 01:14 AM
Re: misleading

The NHC did an excellent job, if people would have listened to them and heeded the warning alot of things might be different right now. Unfortunately people don't always listen. My hat is off to NHC they do a great job.

DebbiePSL
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 03 2005 07:56 AM
Re: misleading

Looks like Maria could become our next hurricane according to the NHC at 8:00

GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 03 2005 09:06 AM
Re:Local News on Maria

This headline was in our local newspaper "The Ledger" this morning. It said,"Maria, no Threat Yet."
I am asking a meterologist or smart person, Is this a hint at something that is coming or is this medica hype again.
The last I heard, Maria and Lee were spinners. Now I am hearing that Maria could be the next hurricane, which is ok by me if she stays away from the US or any Caribbean Islands. Is some one at the news office, playing with the models and not understanding the other factors that go into model reading? This is no time for the press to be sending out grabby headlines about future storms. Please help to clarify this before any one else gets a hold of this nonsense.


DebbiePSL
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 03 2005 09:30 AM
Re:Local News on Maria

I don't know too much but it did say in the 8:00 am discussion it could become our next hurricane

moving nw and intensifying


HanKFranK
(User)
Sat Sep 03 2005 11:01 AM
early september crest

the climatological long term peak for the season is in about a week. we have had one system form already this month, and it should become a hurricane as the nhc surmises. maria may not have a whole lot of company, given the current pattern... aside from what could be a potentially weak storm or two.
maria is moving nw on the general forecast track which should take it up east of bermuda. still a variety of solutions via the global scenarios.. which show anything from a stall to interaction with low pressure to the west, to dissipation. the appearance of maria isn't one that favors dissipation... i wouldn't be surprised if maria becomes a solid hurricane before something finally catches the storm and shunts it out into the north atlantic... in a few days. a cat 2-3 range storm is within reason.
old 92L is no longer being tracked.. a trade wind surge overran it and flattened the low pressure area out, pushed all of the convection out to the surge line ahead of the system. it's very weak and mostly devoid of convective activity... and the low level convergence forcing from earlier has broken down. nothing to get it going again.. wave energy should propagate westward as long as nothing exists to get it active again.. unless the weakness left from that upper low maria developed next to is still nearby to create some differential and evacuation mechanism for convection.
the large surface trough swinging from east of florida to north of puerto rico up to near bermuda... has three focal areas. the center one north of puerto rico seems to be developing, as sustained convection and low cloud movements suggest a tropical low may be forming there. if it develops, it will move slowly and eventually to the northeast. closer to bermuda the area is ragged with an elongated surface turning... many globals track maria into this general area and show the storm merging into it... perhaps absorbing it. the westernmost of the focal points is north of the bahamas, and presents the biggest forecast problem. most models show a low pressure or some surface entity in this area.. sure enough most current surface plots show a weak open-type low near the persistent convective burst in this area. some of the more reliable global models that don't meld the entire region into a broad low show this feature bobbing around off the east coast and deepening slightly as shortwaves pass by to the north.. euro and nogaps have it swoop by the southeast coast around the middle of next week. none show a particularly tropical depiction, but based on climatology and a less-than typical baroclinic appearance, it could well be a tropical or subtropical feature.. albeit likely a weak one.
there is less support today, although some globals still show a weak wave of low pressure moving west across the gulf.
occluding low near the azores shouldn't have enough time to acquire subtropical characteristics.
the synoptic pattern right now is one that doesn't favor traditional longtrack-type storm paths. the african wave train appears to have subsided some, mjo has become essentially a non-factor (perhaps a very weak inhibitor), and soi is still oscillating.. indicating the tendency for weak, gappy ridging and frequent troughs with NAO responding by staying near neutral, and not providing clear pathways for storms to take. there isn't much to move the big weakness off the east coast and that should keep any atlantic systems for the next week or so offshore... globals not suggesting much action in the deep tropics. maybe something will struggle though.
what we're waiting for now.. and what should reactivate the tropical activity, is the polar low diving to its early fall position near northern canada.. instead of being centered near the pole with sluggish, unpronounced longwave features to the south. when that happens, it should result in a more conventional synoptic pattern. i suspect it will happen around mid-month.
HF 1501z03september


DJINFLA
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 03 2005 11:18 AM
Re: early september crest

Huuhhh? Hank, your knowledge is too far out of my reach. Could you please translate into "Jethro-ese" for those of us who don't even know the basics of weather . . .(I can tell when it's raining, however)

Is that mess off the East Coast just going to be a rainmaker, or do you see something a bit bigger?

Thanks!

uhh... sorry. i get a little carried away sometimes. something is going to try to develop out there.. not sure how tropical it will be. if it is there, yeah, probably just a breezy onshore, rainy kind of thing. -HF


tpratch
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 03 2005 11:39 AM
Re: early september crest

Translation.

No other storms for now. Things with the global weather pattern happening that don't support the formation of new storms. That will probably change in a week and storms will form then.

That's the plain-talk, non-tech version of what he said.


weatherwatcher2
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 03 2005 05:18 PM
Re: early september crest

is this little system heading to the east coast? and if so will it work its way over to the west coast of florida?

HanKFranK
(User)
Sat Sep 03 2005 07:46 PM
Re: early september crest

wx watcher that thing doesn't really exist yet. there's a mess of models making a low east of florida... some move the low level feature across but most take the mid level feature northward along the atlantic coast. if it's a deeper system that's what would probably happen.
nutshell of what's happened today:
maria, unless it undergoes some big decrease in convection, will be upgraded to a hurricane later. the cat 2-3 idea is probably realistic.
lee's circulation actually perked back up today.. baroclinic forcing is probably what did that, and it's nearing cooler waters.
92L is back up on nrl. there is some isolated type convection working its way back in near the broad turning.. still bears watching as it moves westward towards the caribbean.
surprised no invest is up on the feature near 23/66. looks decent on IR, there seemed to be a closed windfield on it on earlier visible.. and it's being persistent. proximity to maria is all that would work against this one.. but they don't seem to be interacting. may form into a weak tropical cyclone, and eventually interact with maria.
the real thing to watch is whatever stews near the bahamas... may be a system trying to form around there by mid week.
HF 2346z03september


GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 03 2005 08:34 PM
Re: early september crest

I have been watching the Bahamas and mentally trying to will it to disperse all day. My critters are acting strangely today which is now shaping into a behavior pattern I am familiar with. They become more likely to stay under my feet, pick at each other, and in the case of my birds, screech and holler loudly all day only to be extra quiet when the storm looms close. All of the aforementioned is going on, except the birds are still in screeching mode. Even if nothing forms the animals are experiencing the weather change.
I also had to feed instant grits to my new fire ant bed I found. They greedily attacked the instant grits and hopefully will explode like they are supposed to.... that aside, the fact that they are building beds above the ground mitigates a period of uncertainty. We will see if the bed is still there in the morning.... This is the critter report which is just as meterologically sound as saying the models indicate that a storm will form 166 hours from now in a general location of the gulf states.


BillD
(User)
Sat Sep 03 2005 09:20 PM
Re: early september crest

GG, I'm with you on this "critter thing". I only have one critter right now, a middle aged tabby, but I've been paying attention to her behaviour lately. She is typically aloof, doesn't talk much unless she wants something. But a couple of days before Katrina she started talking all the time, and she followed me around. Well, she started that earlier this afternoon. Something is up.

Bill


HanKFranK
(User)
Sat Sep 03 2005 11:18 PM
Re: early september crest

critters, huh. well, i usually sort of shake my head at it, 'cause mine are nuts no matter what the weather is doing... but i will relate what my brother has to say about all that. a great historian is he, or at least a history major. he likes to play the roman army priest of Mars: equivalent to today's chaplain, only a pagan heathen. and of course, how better to prophesy than to read the auguries in a sacrificial goat's entrails. to quote my brother: "Mars will favor us on the field today. We shall meet the enemy head on and tear through their ranks... they will rout in fear as their leader shall fall quickly. Says so right here on the liver... oh yes, and partly cloudy, high sixty six... steady breeze out of the northwest."
the kid keeps telling me that i'm just a modern day soothsayer with my weather addiction... i usually just tell him something about how stratocumulus lines show up very well on shortwave infrared imagery at night, or how an asymmetric wind field makes a storm do little cycloidal kinks on its track. we've agreed to disagree.
by the way, read the 1030 TWO. nhc sees that steady convective burst near 24/66. not an invest on it... if that's still looking like it does by daylight tomorrow that'll be coming. nothing yet of the feature we're watching for further west... models don't really resolve it until about monday. 92L still has a broad turning and spotty convection. it's getting over water warmer.. could be a watcher again if it persists.
HF 0318z04september


stormchazer
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Sep 04 2005 07:41 AM
Re: early september crest

HK.....NRL agrees as 93L is up. I am getting an error right now on NRLs page but I think they are refering to this feature in the 5am TWO:

A WELL-DEFINED SURFACE LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM CENTERED ABOUT 400 MILES
NORTHEAST OF THE TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS IS DRIFTING SLOWLY
NORTHWARD. SCATTERED SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS HAVE GRADUALLY BEEN
INCREASING THIS MORNING... AND UPPER-LEVEL WINDS ARE SOMEWHAT
FAVORABLE FOR SOME ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SYSTEM TO OCCUR
OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS.

The Sat also covers the area we are watching in the Bahamas as well, but that little spin to the NE seems more sinister right now and a better Invest at this time, although it is likely just for the fishys.


Ron Basso
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Sep 04 2005 08:18 AM
Re: early september crest

Good morning all. Looks like some broad cyclonic turning starting to develop off the SE coast of FL. All of the global models have indicated over the last several days a closed low developing from the old surface trough that migrated southward and now stalled over south FL. 00Z CMC takes the low across the south half of the peninsula, into the GOM to NO. 00Z NOGAPs & UKMET move it slowly up the easy coast of FL and deepen it. 06Z GFS runs it up the middle of the state and then NE. From NWS Tampa Bay 2 AM Disc:

MOST MODELS NOW AGREE ON SOME SORT OF
LOW PRESSURE DEVELOPMENT IN OR NEAR THE BAHAMAS...WITH THE NAM BEING
THE WEAKEST AND FARTHEST SOUTH WHILE THE GFS BRINGS A MORE DEVELOPED
LOW ONTO THE EAST-CENTRAL FLORIDA COAST TUESDAY NIGHT AND MOVES IT
PAINFULLY SLOW ACROSS THE PENINSULA AND INTO THE NORTHEAST GULF ON
FRIDAY. THE NAM SOLUTION WOULD FAVOR HIGHER POPS SOUTH AND LOWER
POPS NORTH ON WEDNESDAY WHILE THE GFS SUGGESTS THE REVERSE.
PRE-ECLIPSE SATELLITE IMAGERY DID SHOW SOME INCREASE IN CONVECTION
EAST OF THE BAHAMAS...AS MENTIONED IN TPC'S LATE EVENING TROPICAL
WEATHER OUTLOOK. BOTH MODELS TAKE THE LOW CURRENTLY EAST OF THE
BAHAMAS OFF TO THE NORTHEAST...SO THE LOW CENTER IN QUESTION FOR
MID-WEEK IS ACTUALLY A NEW ONE FORECAST TO DEVELOP AS THE INITIAL
LOW LIFTS OUT. BOTH MODELS ALSO HAVE THIS LOW BECOMING TRAPPED
UNDER A FAIRLY STRONG RIDGE OF HIGH PRESSURE...WHICH WOULD EXPLAIN
THE SLOW MOVEMENT IF AND WHEN THIS LOW DOES DEVELOP.


http://www.srh.noaa.gov/radar/loop/DS.p20-r/si.kamx.shtml


Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Sun Sep 04 2005 10:37 AM
Re: early september crest

It is interesting the model divergence on the Bahamas-area lows. GFS and NOGAPS develop the central of the three lows and send it north into the Carolinas. GFDL develops the easternmost low and sends it out to sea. CMC decides to be the strangest of the models and develops both the westernmost and easternmost lows (but not the central low that GFS and NOGAPS see), sending the eastermost out to sea, and moving the westernmost across FL and into the gulf coast. This seems to be one system that only time will tell what will happen with.

According to the 8:05am EDT TWD, there is a new Tropical Wave that has moved off of Africa.

It looks like, based on the 11am update, that Hurricane Maria will hit Category 2 before dieing down. Its path keeps it entirely out to sea.

============

Updating for the 11am TWO:

92L, renamed 92L again, is being watched for development...again.



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