| cieldumort |
| (Moderator) |
| Fri May 18 2007 11:34 AM |
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Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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91LINVEST.40kts-1009mb-326N-716W
Invest Floater 1 RGB loop
| Clark |
| (Meteorologist) |
| Fri May 18 2007 12:43 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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NRL must feel like testing their systems out, as that's an extratropical low will an elongated (N-S) circulation and well-defined cold front that is interacting with another cold front. Maybe has a smidgen of a low level neutral or warm temperature profile, but nothing significant. Looks kinda interesting on satellite...but that's about it.
| cieldumort |
| (Moderator) |
| Fri May 18 2007 01:09 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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Say what?
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t1/loop-jsl.html
What front interacting with the other front?
91L grew out of an MCV which developed within one of the thunderstorm complexes associated with the elongated trof over the Bahamas. I fail to see a "well-defined" cold front there. Trof, yes. Cold front, no. Clicking on the "fronts" portion of the Floater they do not list any fronts there, either, except the one coming off the east coast about to intercept 91L.
The deepest convection is still squarely, or I should say circularly, over the position of the original MCV.
| TS2 |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Fri May 18 2007 06:05 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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The NRL are nuts. That storm system is cold-cored and is fully extratropical in nature.
The naming of this system is worse than the naming of Subtropical Storm Andrea becasue the NHC issued it with the name Andrea after it began weakining.
Since i'm new i'm just getting a feel for this site and i will be posting more in depth posts later on in my time here.
| LoisCane |
| (Veteran Storm Chaser) |
| Fri May 18 2007 06:10 PM |
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invest 91L... extra tropical?
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At this rate we could get to Dean or Erin before we have a real Tropical warm core system....
Thanks for the heads up
| cieldumort |
| (Moderator) |
| Fri May 18 2007 06:49 PM |
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Re: invest 91L... extra tropical?
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Well, by the time the last two people responded, yes, 91L had mixed in well-enough with the approaching cold front, and had passed over enough cold water, to have lost most if not all of its tropical characteristics. For those of us following 91L before it was even tagged, we followed a different animal.
| cieldumort |
| (Moderator) |
| Fri May 18 2007 06:56 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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Apparently there is some confusion as to whether or not this system was formally named.
The Invest tag was just that: an Invest tag. For anyone who may be wondering, tagging a feature with an Invest number is not the same assigning a name from the seasonal list. Invest tagging is merely a way of tracking possibles.
| Storm Cooper |
| (User) |
| Fri May 18 2007 07:07 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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Well... no matter what the NRL puts up on it's site, untill I see tropical model runs for that Invest I don't pay too much attention to it. Just something I go by.
| TS2 |
| (Verified CFHC User) |
| Fri May 18 2007 07:16 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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You could see it was a Extratropical System anyway if you looked at the CMC model run. That showed it to be a Warm-Cored (maybe WCS) system untill it reached East Florida and then it turned into a Cold-Cored system and the NHC didn't put it up as an 91L on their floater.
| cieldumort |
| (Moderator) |
| Fri May 18 2007 08:07 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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lol Semantics
This is how NHC lists the Floater :
Atlantic Floater 1
Invest
At any rate, it's just about long gone now. There wasn't enough time to start model runs on 91L, as by the time it had become something noteworthy, it was also starting to become absorbed by the east coast front.
| Clark |
| (Meteorologist) |
| Fri May 18 2007 09:13 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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What I saw looked quite a bit like a cold front; even if it was just a trough, that's still a characteristic of an extratropical system. The visible image you posted -- and a visible loop from earlier today -- clearly showed an exposed and elongated center to the south of the convective flare-up. It's one of those things where if it had done that a day earlier and wasn't in such a hostile environment, it coulda ended up like last year's unnamed subtropical system. But...I just didn't see in it what you did. Two qualified people can see different things, after all
| cieldumort |
| (Moderator) |
| Fri May 18 2007 10:41 PM |
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Re: Invest 91L Now up: 40 knots per NRL
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I wish there was far greater coverage of buoys, more missions into all of these systems, etc, in general. Exactly how extratropical or subtropical or tropical 91L was, we may never really know. I submit that I think it had features of each, and would have been surprised had NRL -not- tagged it as an Invest. TWDs referred to it as a gale center, and lacking any better truthing, that description certainly seems to fit best.
Ed Dunham
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| (Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017)) |
| Sat May 19 2007 11:14 PM |
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Administrative Notes
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No, the NRL is not nuts. Lets not get into bashing agencies on this site. Confrontational posts seldom serve a useful purpose and they are not solicited on this site. Since meteorology is a constant learning process, here are a few tidbits to tuck away:
NRL initiates an Invest at the request of NHC and the Invest coordinates are provide to NRL by NHC.
Cold core extratropical systems can transition to warm core subtropical or tropical systems. Since one already has this year, it does not surprise me at all that NHC wanted to monitor this area with an Invest.
The decision on Andrea is old news - its history, and that decision was made by learned folks who specialize in tropical systems, and I believe that they made the correct call. Arguing its merits is better left to those that do post season analysis. Arguing it here will change nothing.
ED