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Archives >> 2006 News Talkbacks

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typhoon_tip
Meteorologist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 551
Re: whoa [Re: HanKFranK]
      #73753 - Sat Sep 16 2006 11:27 PM

Could be the most brilliant statment said in all of this:

"could be this NAO positive thing tending to snap ridges back together to the northeast of systems,"

John


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LoisCane
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1198
Loc: South Florida
11pm discussion [Re: typhoon_tip]
      #73754 - Sun Sep 17 2006 12:37 AM

A lot to think on tonight. Excellent discussion on a difficult situation that still hangs so much up in the air.

Easy to say she will recurve as previously planned but she might recurve much further west if the models indeed catch onto something changing.

May stay up late staring at water vapor loops at this rate.

thanks

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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scottsvb
Weather Master


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1085
Loc: fl
Re: 11pm discussion [Re: LoisCane]
      #73755 - Sun Sep 17 2006 12:47 AM

Yeah there could be a shift....more ridging is forecasted to form NW of Helene...but with another big trough exiting the east coast ...it probably still wont get more west then 65-70...I would like to see some more model runs and water vapor in the next few days. If this is a forecast....you guys can repost this in that lounge.

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Storm Hunter
Veteran Storm Chaser


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1369
Loc: Panama City Beach, Fl. 30.16N 85.76W
Re: 11pm discussion [Re: scottsvb]
      #73756 - Sun Sep 17 2006 01:25 AM

hmm.....00utc GFS....still trending a little to the left... and now looks like the escapes route could close for helene... going to see if any other models start catching on.... I like what Hank posted above.... were going to need more runs to see what happens...
Looks like GFS is trying to block?

The 00utc UKM does the same with the turn to the west and the CMC... misses the blocking and allows helene to escape north...most of the globals i have seen build the ridge back though.... hard to tell what the trough coming across the central plains will be doing in 5-7days!

The NOGAPS... starting to shift too i think.....the storm kinda moves west then tries going north at the end... 00utc NOGAPS

--------------------
www.Stormhunter7.com ***see my flight into Hurricane Ike ***
Wx Data: KFLPANAM23 / CW8771
2012== 23/10/9/5 sys/strms/hurr/majh



Edited by Storm Hunter (Sun Sep 17 2006 01:40 AM)


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dem05
User


Reged: Wed
Posts: 368
Loc: Port Charlotte, FL
Re: 11pm discussion [Re: scottsvb]
      #73757 - Sun Sep 17 2006 01:26 AM

FYI...00Z GFS Turns Helene West, but sharply curves her North and the Northeast well before the Bahamas...I'd assume a new trough has been intruduced into the western end of the CONUS grid (The model is now seeing a trough in the west that it could not see before). More or less, this means the show's over on the westward shift for now...Still, any turn is in the crystal ball time freme, but I doubt this will be a US threat based on the reinstatement of a turn on the 00Z GFS.
Link: http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/

EDIT: Storm Hunter...was posting while you were...FYI, the model link goes beyong the timeframe of the FSU page you linked to...

Edited by dem05 (Sun Sep 17 2006 01:29 AM)


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cieldumort
Moderator


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1023
Loc: Texas 30.40N 97.80W
Re: 11pm discussion [Re: dem05]
      #73758 - Sun Sep 17 2006 05:32 AM

Helene is looking much, much healthier early this morning. The eye has become increasingly obvious overnight, and the overall internal structure is starting to resemble yet another major hurricane in the making. CIMSS, in fact, is already putting the CI at about 100 knots. That large eye is almost creepy - one sure can't miss it!

The models really suggest to me at least that Bermuda might be wise to start making preparations, again. Sure, the GFS is but one model, but it is often a pretty good one - and thus far is somewhat verifying.


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Lee-Delray
Weather Master


Reged: Thu
Posts: 429
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: Ed Dunham]
      #73759 - Sun Sep 17 2006 11:47 AM

Wow, it seems what if we have a hurricane and no one shows up. Interesting how Helene's track is shifting west. From what I'm reading no real threat to the US, but possibly Bermuda later in the week. Seems there are enough troughs coming off teh east coast to push her away.

Sounds like she's going to be around for at least another week.


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HanKFranK
User


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1841
Loc: Graniteville, SC 33.56N 81.82W
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: Lee-Delray]
      #73760 - Sun Sep 17 2006 04:08 PM

gordon and helene have both gotten a bit stronger this afternoon. their inner cores have become better defined and such. helene is probably scraping the cat 2/3 intensity boundary... gordon maybe is back to 75kt. thing is, gordon has less than 48 hours left as a tropical entity and should 'let go' of helene by letting the heights build back to the northeast. GFS has actually been turning helene briefly wsw before the next shortwave comes by. exactly how that shortwave affects helene is a big ticket item. GFS on the 12Z run has gone back to a recurvature path, only much further west (stalls the system near bermuda by late in the week, before sweeping it up). the caveat would be that a hybrid type system is spinning a couple hundred miles east of hatteras and waiting for the trough advancing across the country to draw it up... and it is looking ever-so-slightly more tropical over warm waters. it's in the middle of a deep layer trough, so it'll take some work to cross over. most of the models don't see it very well... if it develops into isaac or something it would throw a wrench into the modeling and probably mean somewhat more resurgent ridging for helene this coming week.
whether it's that feature or not, we'll probably see isaac soon either way. there's been a good bit of support for the next wave to emerge and develop.
still no modeling grabbing on to anything near central america, but pressures there are suspiciously low through the coming period, as typically happens this time of year when canadian highs descend and synoptically force rising motions and pressure falls. the pacific looks to keep active... i'm thinking that maybe something down in the western caribbean or maybe even more likely the bay of campeche will get hung up near one of these frontal tails. that's bound to happen once or twice every other year regardless. tis the season.
the storm crossing the country is energetic for this time of year... more akin to what we usually see in mid-late fall (usually colorado lows that head up into the lakes; i've seen these nicknamed 'november witches' in a paper before). it's sort of a tell-tale sign of fall just a tad early. with ENSO warm it wouldn't be a surprise for fall to come on rather quickly this year. this part of the country el nino causes mild to cool, rainy conditions relative to average. not terrible after a hot summer, but as it continues into winter it gets really, really old by, say, february.
HF 2008z17september


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cieldumort
Moderator


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1023
Loc: Texas 30.40N 97.80W
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: HanKFranK]
      #73761 - Sun Sep 17 2006 04:12 PM

I've been watching the hybrid develop since yesterday. We've got 95L up now. As stated, this may add a whole new dynamic to the model runs on Helene, not to mention other implications.

95L


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Major7
Weather Watcher


Reged: Wed
Posts: 37
Loc: Hollywood, FL 26.02N/80.20W a...
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: cieldumort]
      #73762 - Sun Sep 17 2006 04:47 PM

Would the introduction of 95I into the scene pull Helene more westward, towards the path of least resistance?

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cieldumort
Moderator


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1023
Loc: Texas 30.40N 97.80W
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: Major7]
      #73763 - Sun Sep 17 2006 04:57 PM

The first things that came to my mind - if it were to deepen and develop more than expected, it might want to create even more of a weakness in the ridge, and help Helene to recurve sooner. On the other side, if it were to induce shear over Helene, this could also weaken her some and, thus, she may be less inclined to hitch a ride. This feature has really not hit the models so much, just yet. Will be interesting to see if they pick up on it more with the next run.

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inHISgrip
Weather Watcher


Reged: Sun
Posts: 25
Loc: Venice, FL.
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: cieldumort]
      #73764 - Sun Sep 17 2006 05:14 PM

There are going to be 3 different troughs moving down to catch Helene. It's bound to get picked up by one of them. Even if the first one misses. That's what the models are in debate over. Not really IF it will turn later in the forecast, but when it will turn. I dont see much doubt about Helene making the turn north, it's just a matter of when. As far as staying on a west track, doubt it because of the above troughs mentioned.

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CaneTrackerInSoFl
Storm Tracker


Reged: Mon
Posts: 395
Loc: 25.63N 80.33W
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: inHISgrip]
      #73766 - Sun Sep 17 2006 10:49 PM

Helene is the second major cane of the season. What worries me is the possibility that land will be affected grows with each passing model run. According to the discussion:


THE BIG PROBLEM IS IF A TROUGH... NOW
CURRENTLY JUST OFFSHORE OF THE UNITED STATES... WEAKENS THE RIDGE
ENOUGH TO ALLOW THE HURRICANE TO BE PICKED UP BY A SECOND TROUGH IN
A FEW DAYS. MODEL GUIDANCE IS GENERALLY SPLIT INTO TWO CLUSTERS.
THE GFS/UKMET/NOGAPS SUGGEST THAT THE TROUGH WILL LEAVE THE
HURRICANE BEHIND WHILE THE ECMWF/GFDL BELIEVE THE TROUGH WILL
ACCELERATE THE HURRICANE OUT TO SEA. MODEL GUIDANCE HAS BEEN
TRENDING WESTWARD WITH TIME... AND THE OFFICIAL FORECAST LEANS
TOWARD THE WESTWARD CLUSTER OF GFS/UKMET/NOGAPS.


I guess we'll see what ends up playing out in the next few days.

--------------------
Andrew 1992, Irene 1999, Katrina 2005, Wilma 2005



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allan
Weather Master


Reged: Thu
Posts: 468
Loc: Palm Coast, Florida 29.55N 81.20W
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: CaneTrackerInSoFl]
      #73767 - Sun Sep 17 2006 10:55 PM

Helene is now forecasted to finally track west as the NHC just barely gives up on going with the GFDL. Just don't see it turning that fast myself either. A trough in the central US should lift it a bit north but may not pick it up and toss it out to see. Helene could be one of those storms that actually hit land from Africa! that surprises me. All of the east coast now needs to watch this storm carefully. NHC now says it may hit the USA. Though right now Bermuda needs to batter down the hatches yet again. Though I think the storm may just be to the south of Bermuda and head near the Carolinas then turn north.

--------------------
Allan Reed - 18,9,5


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Ryan
Storm Tracker


Reged: Tue
Posts: 281
Loc: Long Island, NY / Stuart, FL
Hurricane Helene [Re: CaneTrackerInSoFl]
      #73768 - Sun Sep 17 2006 11:45 PM

over the last day of two Helene was out to see on NHC's projected path and now they show a western turn in the 5 day forecast, is the trough along the East Coast breaking allowing Helene to keep move toward the United States? Is this now a potential threat becuase this is a pretty big change than even the 5PM update today. Someone fill me in i've been sick the last couple days not keeping focused.

--------------------
2006 Atlantic Season Summary:
Bad, But Not AS Bad.

Life's a Storm, Watch Your Back


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cieldumort
Moderator


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1023
Loc: Texas 30.40N 97.80W
Re: Hurricane Helene [Re: Ryan]
      #73769 - Mon Sep 18 2006 12:50 AM

Short-term: I see Helene trending more NNW - looks like her increased intensity is helping her to respond better to the wake Gordon is leaving behind. If she gets much further north she'll cross 22.5 before possibly pulling the forecast WNW, and it's totally back to the drawing board for future track.

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Lee-Delray
Weather Master


Reged: Thu
Posts: 429
Re: Hurricane Helene [Re: cieldumort]
      #73770 - Mon Sep 18 2006 07:59 AM

I think the 5AM was a good discussion on what, where and when. NHC pretty much covered all possibilities.

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Storm Cooper
Moderator


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1284
Loc: Panama City Beach, FL 30.22N 85.86W
Re: Major Hurricane Gordon and Hurricane Helene [Re: Lee-Delray]
      #73772 - Mon Sep 18 2006 09:36 AM

At last look it was still up as an Invest but it should be meeting up with a front pushing off... probably not much to expect out of it. Lets remember to avoid one line posts on the Forum...Thanks.

--------------------
Hurricane Season 2012 11/5/2


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cuidado
Verified CFHC User


Reged: Fri
Posts: 11
Loc: Sarasota, FL
Re: whoa [Re: HanKFranK]
      #73773 - Mon Sep 18 2006 10:20 AM

Quote:

the western gulf may come of interest late next week as a tropical wave interacts with an amplifying trough. it would probably just break free and head west under rebuilt ridging anyway.



And what about EARLY this week if remnant of Lane gets out over water? (On the very edge of the sw coast of fl we got a fair amount of rain last night that appeared to be related to that no-longer epac no-longer storm.)???


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Ed in Va
Weather Master


Reged: Fri
Posts: 488
Loc: 36.02N 75.67W
Re: whoa [Re: cuidado]
      #73776 - Mon Sep 18 2006 12:43 PM

Dr. Masters' read on Helene. Still only a 10% chance of EC impact, but a lot still unclear:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=518&tstamp=200609

--------------------
Survived Carol and Edna '54 in Maine. Guess this kind of dates me!


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