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News Talkback >> 2004 News Talkbacks

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Steve
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1063
Loc: Metairie, LA
Re: Around the Corner
      #14642 - Wed May 26 2004 11:04 PM

Thanks Ed. I e-mailed you the forecast. For whatever reason, it wouldn't let me post it from work or home as a simple cut and paste. Hopefully when you get it, you can post it as me. Thanks.

Steve

--------------------
MF'n Super Bowl Champions


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LI Phil
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Re: Around the Corner
      #14643 - Wed May 26 2004 11:08 PM

Steve, you're killing us. What is the subject of your post already...

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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Steve
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1063
Loc: Metairie, LA
Re: Around the Corner
      #14647 - Wed May 26 2004 11:35 PM

Oh. I threw together my seasonal forecast while I was bored at work today. I tried to post it 10 or 15 times from home and work, and it gives me an error message that I need to put my name in the "from" section even though I'm logged in. I couldn't PM it to any of the admins without getting a "forbidden" message. I don't know why. Maybe it's just too long. I even broke it into 5 sections to post as Parts 1-5, but that didn't work. I don't get it.

Steve

--------------------
MF'n Super Bowl Champions


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LI Phil
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Re: Around the Corner
      #14648 - Wed May 26 2004 11:39 PM

Steve, we lovya baby. Screw the cut & paste. What is your 2004 forecast? I'm still sticking with 14/8/3, with June 14thish for our first named TS & Alex will form in the GOM near 6/14. Also gonna go out on a limb and predict one landfalling Hurric of CAT III at landfall or better. (Hope that doesn't come to play). Anyhoo, what's your first hit call?

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

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"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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scottsvb55
Unregistered




Re: Around the Corner
      #14650 - Thu May 27 2004 02:15 AM

Steve that is great that you go to work and still think about weather and hurricane season, I always do too like thousands of us world wide.
If I did a season forcast i would say 13 named, 5 hurricanes, 2 intense, but who knows, thats just a guess. Conditions might be right in mid june for a epac system to move across C.A. and into NW carrb or Mexico then again, speculation.

scottsvb


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LI Phil
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Reged: Fri
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Loc: Long Island (40.7N 73.6W)
CFHC @ work
      #14651 - Thu May 27 2004 08:19 AM

Hey scottsvb: don't most of us go to work & then logon to CFHC? I'm online there more than at home (where I am now). Thanks for the prediction

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

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Steve
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1063
Loc: Metairie, LA
For Phil...
      #14652 - Thu May 27 2004 11:32 AM

I give up. Here's the link:

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=26541&start=140

Middle of Page 8 depending on where the link takes you.

Steve

--------------------
MF'n Super Bowl Champions


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LI Phil
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Re: For Phil...
      #14653 - Thu May 27 2004 11:45 AM

Here's Steve's post from Storm2K:

Here's mine. Sorry it's so long.

I have read several different forecasts this year including WRC, Gary Gray, Iwx, Bastardi's prelim, CSU and Hurricane Alley. Of those 6, I only pay nominal attention to WRC's forecast because I don't put a lot of stock into what they say, but it's worthwhile to browse through when bored. Same goes for Gary Gray and Millennium Weather. Of the other 4, all arrive at their analogs in different fashions. Iwx went with 53, 61, 66, 80, 95. Hurricane Alley (based on 30 climate predictors) came up with 55, 72, 85, 88, 90, 95, and 2002. Bastardi (though his forecast isn't coming out until June 20th or so – Landfall Intensity Forecast based on the July-October season dealt with there) hinted at 44, 66, 78 and 95 (though he's not etched in stone yet). Dr. William Gray and the CSU forecast team utilized 58, 61, 80 and 2001.

Links to the sites noted:

Dr. Gray's April Forecast

Independent wx 2004 forecast

Weather Research Center 2004 Forecast

Hurricane Alley's 2004 Forecast

Millennium Weather 2004 Forecast

As you can see, those are pretty divergent years primarily because they come from divergent methodologies. You can check their respective sites and forecasts to see what predictors they use to come up with their analogs. Joe B. likes to use water temperature profiles and certain temperature and moisture predictors in the CONUS, but he doesn't divulge all of what goes into his forecast. He carries some additional weight because his landfall intensity forecasts have been fairly good, and in some aspects, excellent.

The seasons that cross between the 4 sets of analogs are 1961 (twice), 1966 (twice), 1980 (twice), and 1995 (3x). A study of tracks from those years yields conflicting signals. 3 of the years featured central or north Texas hits, 2 featured N FL hits, and 3 featured Canadian Maritime hits. Now I'm not one to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I don't believe that analog year tracks are in any way, shape or form indicative of hits in an upcoming season. They can provide a general idea as to what we might expect under similar conditions, but the tracks themselves are not apt to repeat. Some may get close, but 150 miles either way could be the difference between a Louisiana vs. Florida hit, North Carolina vs. Delaware hit or a New Jersey vs. a Connecticut hit.

A great thing about the Internet is that you can pull something up that you don't have to research yourself anymore. Dr. Gray, Iwx, NOAA, NCEP and others take care of some of that work for you. They give a good idea as to potential ENSO conditions, QBO, NAO, SOI, SLP, wind directions at certain heights, etc. So what I try to throw together borrows heavily from what they've already provided.

One of the primary factors this year is the uncertainty of ENSO conditions. I believe Iwx has the best handle and presentation on it, but no one truly knows. It is my opinion that unanticipated volcanic activity is always possible and represents one of several proverbial jokers or wildcards – and one of the most important. Primarily neutral ENSO conditions seem inevitable for the near-term, but we really don't know for sure. Other factors such as the ATHC and QBO seem to point to a higher number of storms, slightly southerly tracks for those originating in the Atlantic and the potential for at least a slightly more than normal number of Intense Hurricanes (3's, 4's and/or 5's) as well as Intense Hurricane Days.

Having watched Joe B for 4 or 5 years has taught me to pay attention to water temperature profiles and sea surface temperature anomalies. These are ever changing, but as of May 26, 2004, above average water is most prevalent along the NC & VA coasts. We know from past years that this invites a very strong ridge off and along the SE Coast of the United States. This often provides a blocking mechanism for storms and/or waves moving westward south of 20N. Of additional note is that the water has reversed itself from April off the FL Panhandle from what we saw in April. Compared to 2003 which had the warm water anomalies further north, we'll have to see if we can draw any future inferences based on this water temperature profile and what tracks waves and storms take when interacting with ridging off the SE Coast and the mean ridge position relative to where any given storm is when approaching.

Most of the forecasters mentioned above along with NOAA are calling for an above average year. WRC, with 7 named storms and only 3 hurricanes predicted, seems to have an extremely low bias in number of storms. Therefore, I'll stay with the flow and guess that we'll see about 13 named storms, 8 hurricanes and 3 Intense Hurricanes.

Independent Wx, as noted in prior posts, did some research last year that showed that after active Gulf years (I believe out of the last 50 or 60 years) such as 2002, the chances for more than 3 named storms in the Gulf in the following year was pretty remote. If memory serves me correctly, only 1 year had 3 storms following a year with 6 or more named storms in the Gulf, a couple had 2, but most of the rest had either 1 or 0. This didn't hold true for last season as 2002's 6-storm Gulf season was followed by 2003's 5 named storm and TD #7 season. Based on everything I'm looking at, it looks as though any trend toward a quiet Gulf year will be again interrupted in 2004. Indeed, most of the forecasters mentioned at the top have certain areas of the Gulf as real hotspots, including WRC. It should also be noted here that Joe Bastardi has clued in that he believes the most intense storm to make landfall this year will be along the US Gulf of Mexico coast. Factoring in some of the analog years seems to indicate a better than average chance for a strong hit on Texas and/or NW Florida.

Landfall forecast areas:

Brownsville, TX to Lafayette, LA = 2 named storm hits and potentially a strong to major hurricane hit.

Lafayette, LA to Pascagoula, MS = 1-2 hits, most likely weaker systems (e.g. Tropical Storms)

MS/AL line to Cedar Key, FL = 2 named storm hits with the potential for a strong to intense storm between Panama City Beach, FL and Mobile Bay, AL. It should be noted that areas north of there in Southern Georgia are currently experiencing drought conditions. One of the ways out of droughts is through the influx of tropical moisture. However, the drought conditions there are not considered severe at this time.

West Coast of Florida south of Cedar Key = potential for 1 tropical storm or weaker (Cat 1) Hurricane. No definite hit predicted.

FL Keys = Impossible to predict. Based on the NHC's probability tables for active storms (a storm passes within 65 miles of a specific area), one would expect the keys to see a brush by.
Homestead, FL to Duval County, FL = Possible impact from a hurricane cutting west beneath anticipated ridging off the SE Coast. No specific hits predicted.

GA & SC Coasts = No hits predicted. Possible impacts from Gulf systems coming up from the South.

NC Coast – You can never discount coastal North Carolina as it, along with FL and SE LA seems to be at least brushed every year by a system. I don't see any early direct hits but depending on the evolution of the late summer to early fall, it's possible that we could see some coastal impact on the Outer Banks. I do expect there will be several fish spinners during 'low tide" of the Atlantic Ridge. This will most likely provide good surfing at different points during the hurricane season.

Virginia Coast to Delmarva Peninsula = No anticipated landfalls. Possible impact from storms coming up from the SW.

New Jersey = No anticipated landfalls.

Long Island through coastal Maine = Potential late season impact if the warm waters off the NC Coast remain intact for most of the summer. Impact could be from phasing later in the season or from a hurricane curving out to sea and clipping the Cape in MA.

Canadian Maritimes = 2 anticipated landfalls. Because of late season blocks, it's possible that any system off the east coast of the United States will move N or NNE on its way to distribute heat from the tropics to the north. Bear in mind that the Maritimes extend east to 53W and provide an easy target for a north moving or late curving storm.

This is the hurricane season as I understand it today. It's a bunch of guesswork factored in with the research from people I trust. Last year's landfall predictions were uncanny. In my wildest dreams, I didn't anticipate it being as good as it was. Luck will run out on me, and it might as well be this year. If it's worth anything, print it out on soft paper and save it for an emergency .

Steve


--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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aaaaa
Unregistered




Re: For Phil...
      #14654 - Thu May 27 2004 12:11 PM

you missed the east coast of Florida
From Miami to Jaxsonville

what about them????


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Steve
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1063
Loc: Metairie, LA
Re: For Phil...
      #14655 - Thu May 27 2004 12:19 PM

>>Homestead, FL to Duval County, FL = Possible impact from a hurricane cutting west beneath anticipated ridging off the SE Coast. No specific hits predicted.

I must have forgotten a "return" (under the Keys). Anyway, hope y'all enjoyed it. It's a shot in the dark based a lot on Joe B, Iwx, Hurricane Alley and Dr. Gray tempered by my own thoughts. I really think the bullseye has got to be slightly east of where I am. I say that every year, but after 1995 (which is a 3-way analog this year), I get the feeling MS/AL/N FL are always under the gun.

Steve

--------------------
MF'n Super Bowl Champions


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LI Phil
User


Reged: Fri
Posts: 2637
Loc: Long Island (40.7N 73.6W)
Steve's Forecast
      #14656 - Thu May 27 2004 12:27 PM

Great work on your forecast Steve. Obviously a lot of work went into it. I, too, based my predictions on a combination of others' forecasts, with the most weight on Dr. Gray, of course. The reason for that is that Gray has been doing it for so long, you know his track record. The others simply haven't been doing it as long (not that they're not credible) so I don't give them as much weight.

FWIW Steve, I tried to block & copy your forecast DIRECTLY from Storm2K, and wasn't able to do it either. Got the error message that some of the items weren't checked off (???) So, I simply blocked and copied your forecast from Storm2K to Word Pro (Lotus' crappy Word knockoff) and from there, blocked and copied it here. Don't know if you tried that (and don't know if it will work in Word), but that's all it took. Glad I was able to post it for CFHC members.

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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James88
Weather Master


Reged: Tue
Posts: 576
Loc: Gloucestershire, England, UK
Re: Steve's Forecast
      #14657 - Thu May 27 2004 02:36 PM

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting it

A really good prediction - clearly a lot of research went into it. Always interesting to hear someone's views on the upcoming season


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Cycloneye
Storm Tracker


Reged: Thu
Posts: 373
Loc: Puerto Rico
Re: Steve's Forecast
      #14658 - Thu May 27 2004 04:22 PM

Congrats Steve for a great anaylisis that you did in that forecast.Now let's wait and see how the season will pan out and then see if you are correct or not.

--------------------
My 2004 hurricane season forecast=13/8/3


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Steve
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1063
Loc: Metairie, LA
Re: Steve's Forecast
      #14659 - Thu May 27 2004 04:56 PM

Thanks eye. FWIW, I have the same totals as you 13/8/3. It's in the S2K link so you gotta update my numbers over there too.

As to your question about longrange radar, I think it could be very helpful for the DR/Haiti. Unfortunately for those guys, they're still caught in a moisture feed from a low pressure over 1,000 miles away. If you check Goes 12's IR, you can see some insane storms bubbling up today. It's really sad for those people.

Steve

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MF'n Super Bowl Champions


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Steve
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1063
Loc: Metairie, LA
Re: Steve's Forecast
      #14660 - Thu May 27 2004 05:26 PM

FWIW,

I was watching Joe B's tropical update today and he pointed to some of the GFS Ensemble forecasts that are beginning to pick up the coming trof split and his next worry area (the Gulf of Mexico) for June 10th and beyond. His belief is that a ridge will be set up over West Texas and a ridge will be set up over Florida. It's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to early to say anything on that stuff except to look for possibilities, but one would expect if it sets up that way, the Northern and Western Gulf Coasts would be vulnerable to whatever might get cookin'. Just a 2+ weeks out headsup and something to follow until we get to the next point.

Steve

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LI Phil
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Joe B.
      #14662 - Thu May 27 2004 07:48 PM

Ooooh...GOM June 10 & beyond. Maybe I'll get my TS just after that date. That would be one hell of a prediction, huh?

Steve, I know you talk up Accuweather premium (it's probably worth it just for Joe B.), but how are the radars? I've been thinking of signing up (I hate to pay for stuff I can almost get for free), but are the other perks (like 50 billion types of radar) really schweet? Also, I've checked the site and have seen what the premium offers, so it's something I've been considering. I'm sure you think it's worth it, but try to sell me

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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Steve
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1063
Loc: Metairie, LA
Re: Joe B.
      #14663 - Thu May 27 2004 09:03 PM

They have a lot of stuff I don't use. You get to try it free for 30 days, so you can see if it's worth it or not during that time. I only keep it for tropical season from about May through early October. That's < 50 cents a day and you do get the columns and streaming videos that really help with some aspects of understanding pattern recognition and the like. I learn something new almost every day about teleconnections, patterns or whatever. I don't care about winter weather, so I don't carry them during the offseason. But I'd say it's worth the money to me. The whole tropical season ends up costing me less than $75 and that's for the whole year's worth of stuff. PM me if you want to borrow my user id for a day and see what you think.

Steve

--------------------
MF'n Super Bowl Champions


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LI Phil
User


Reged: Fri
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Loc: Long Island (40.7N 73.6W)
Re: Joe B.
      #14664 - Thu May 27 2004 09:13 PM

Thanks for the offer to use your ID, but I'll probably just try the 30 day trial version. Obviously (?), being up north, I could use the winter weather stuff, we do get a LOT of snow and some serious nor-easters. Jonesing to get my daily Joe B. Fix, though. When they put him premium, I basically boycotted Accuweather for about six months. Must be nice to watch his updates and not get all those sh---y popups. That's my main peeve with a-w. Everytime I click a new link, I have to close a new ad. If I do sign up, at least I'd be able to avoid all that nonsense. Maybe tomorrow I'll do the trial...

Thanks for the info!

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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HanKFranK
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Re: Joe B.
      #14665 - Thu May 27 2004 09:46 PM

that's a hell of a thorough outlook, steve. it's what we all do here.. use other people's ideas as a basis to develop our own. you went and took a whole lot of that stuff and condensed it into a pretty solid nugget, just then. thanks for throwing it out, 'cause i'm sure going to use it as a ref.
that aside, as always, won't go so far as to make such a massive season prediction. not because it may not be right, but because going all out will rarely get you the gold. last decade's trend has been HIGH activity, LOW impact. the preseason forecast i've been dragging with me since november is for a less-than-incredible 11/6/3 season. i have little faith in it (it's gonna be low); the landfall guesscast on the forum the other night is my intepretation of analog landfalls, and how i think the summer pattern will evolve (which is itself based mostly on temperature and height anomalies here in the u.s. and their teleconnections). in-head kind of stuff, not very credible. tell ya, you're putting me to shame with the solid, authority-based stuff.
models have backed off an that sw carib surge for next week.. slower development, not dropping it. not certain, but it may in fact be the pattern-split spawned thing steve keeps quoting bastardi on.
gray hits us again tomorrow. more to talk about. also, the day after tomorrow comes out.. the day before the day after tomorrow. expect armageddon with ocean currents instead of texas-sized asteroids. probably good for a laugh, unless you're convinced that al gore is an authority on anything.
HF 0146z28may


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LI Phil
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Loc: Long Island (40.7N 73.6W)
Re: Joe B.
      #14666 - Thu May 27 2004 10:02 PM

(off-topic post removed)

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"

Edited by Ed Dunham (Fri May 28 2004 06:38 AM)


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