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News Talkback >> 2005 News Talkbacks

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Thunderbird12
Meteorologist


Reged: Thu
Posts: 644
Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: Lake Toho - Kissimmee]
      #52596 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:25 PM

It does a disservice to the whole "global warming" issue to say that it "contributed to" or caused a singular weather event like an intense hurricane, especially when the event has just happened and no comprehensive studies have been done regarding the storm. Any contribution of climate change would be in the frequency of such events over an extended period of time (and even then natural cycles in activity would have to be accounted for), not for a single event. It seems like someone in the media brings up global warming every time there is a significant weather event, but making false cause/effect assertions only gives those in the habit of automatically dismissing climate change concerns more fodder for their arguments.

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damejune2
Storm Tracker


Reged: Sat
Posts: 237
Loc: Torrington, CT
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: JMII]
      #52597 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:30 PM

Well, you don't know for sure what the income level is for the people stealing stuff in N.O. They already said that most of the people who didn't leave were people who didnt have cars and or the money to leave. I can see people taking food or beverages, but i have seen pictures of people taking other stuff. I am not going to get into it with you, but the people in NO looting are NOT middle/upper income people! They are thiefs who wait for something of this magnitude so they can cash in on it. And believe me, when things clear up, they will sell that TV, VCR, DVD player, gold watches, etc.......anyway, nuff of this.

--------------------
Gloria 1985 (Eye passed over my house in...get this...northwestern CT!)


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nandav
Weather Watcher


Reged: Thu
Posts: 37
Loc: Pt. Charlotte, FL
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: Lysis]
      #52598 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:38 PM

It DOES bring back some of what we went through with Charley.. only SO much worse. At least many of us still had jobs ... and we didn't have to drive too far away to get to "real" stores and McDonald's etc. and when it was over, it was over ... no rising flood waters to contend with. Even with that, it brings back that whole anxiety of .. where were we going to live? What were we going to do? We couldn't stay in our house .. and were fortunate enough to get a room in a hotel not too far away. We spent the first week just packing up things and wondering what we were going to do with them. That whole uncertainty of "what happens next"? There's no book to guide you..not really. I can only imagine what it must be like for so many of them ... the numbers are staggering and hard to even wrap your mind around...

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wiley
Verified CFHC User


Reged: Fri
Posts: 13
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: damejune2]
      #52599 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:38 PM

CNN says an oil tanker ran aground and is leaking. Does anyone know where or if it is leaking into the same water that's flooding the city? (Yikes!)

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damejune2
Storm Tracker


Reged: Sat
Posts: 237
Loc: Torrington, CT
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: wiley]
      #52600 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:40 PM

Haven't heard about that yet, but if you look at pictures and video of the flooded areas, you can clearly see fuel/oil already in the water.

--------------------
Gloria 1985 (Eye passed over my house in...get this...northwestern CT!)


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Big Red Machine
Storm Tracker


Reged: Fri
Posts: 223
Loc: Polk City, FL
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: damejune2]
      #52602 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:43 PM

Wow, amazing video on CNN. Prisoners being removed from a flooded jail near downtown New Orleans. Frightening situation.

Edit: the officials seem to have a good grip on this right now

Edited by Big Red Machine (Tue Aug 30 2005 05:47 PM)


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meto
Weather Guru


Reged: Wed
Posts: 140
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: The Force 2005]
      #52604 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:43 PM

this is a hurricane site people can talk about both. and i havent heard that those waves will be fish spinners, they are well south.

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disneyfanfl
Verified CFHC User


Reged: Mon
Posts: 24
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: meto]
      #52605 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:51 PM

My heart and money will be reaching out to those in the hard-hit areas, so I'm glad to see all of the news and updates. However, I believe it's appropriate to continue to discuss other tropical activity. The mods can feel free to delete this post if they need to.

The NHC 5pm advisory hints that those two waves may not be waves for long. TD14 could form in the next day or so and TD13 appears to be regenerating. We always hope they dissipate or spin fish, but until then we'll keep an eye on them.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATWOAT+shtml/302126.shtml

Edited by disneyfanfl (Tue Aug 30 2005 05:52 PM)


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errorcone
Registered User


Reged: Sun
Posts: 6
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: Big Red Machine]
      #52606 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:53 PM

Quote:

Wow, amazing video on CNN. Prisoners being removed from a flooded jail near downtown New Orleans. Frightening situation.

Edit: the officials seem to have a good grip on this right now




If they had a good grip on it, the prisoners would never have been there in the 1st place.

There was a projected Cat 5 coming into NO. All of those prisoners should have been moved early. You move prisoners early because you don't want them in gridlock with the civilian population, and you move them to avoid a situation just like this. Yeah, I expect them to cope and come though. But this is not a good situation.


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Lake Toho - Kissimmee
Storm Tracker


Reged: Tue
Posts: 317
Loc: Kissimmee, Florida on Lake Toh...
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: Thunderbird12]
      #52608 - Tue Aug 30 2005 05:55 PM

What I meant by Global Warming contributing to this event, relates to the flooding in New Orleans not the creation of a Hurricane. Everyone knows global warming has contributed to increased sea levels, and also in the warming of the oceans. However , "in my opinion", global warming and the straightening of the Mississippi river exacerbated the flooding caused by the hurricane.

I do not think Global Warming was the cause of this one weather event. However, I do feel that global warming maybe a contributor in the future (near or distant future, it doesnt matter) of increased events such as this, if we do not start paying attention to the environment. Thats all I was actually trying to state. I appreciate your critique which has enabled me to clarify my point of view.



--------------------
Dream like you will live forever.. Live like there is no tommorow.. Darwin Rules !!


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Jeffmidtown
Weather Guru


Reged: Wed
Posts: 132
Loc: Atlanta, Ga
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: damejune2]
      #52609 - Tue Aug 30 2005 06:06 PM

According to http://www.wwltv.com they have reported that there will be a mass evacuation of the 4000 inmates in the New Orleans jail to other state facilities as well as 1000 inmates in Jefferson Parish as well.

Also WWL-TV is broadcasting from a makeshift room at their transmitter site as of late this afternoon.

Here in Atlanta, pretty much every place I went into today that had a TV on was watching CNN and people were just heartbroken about what New Orleans and the entire Gulf Coast states are going through.
Clear Channel radio has set up a website http://www.stormaid.com for more information and on how to help.


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emackl
Storm Tracker


Reged: Sat
Posts: 205
Loc: Indianapolis
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: Lake Toho - Kissimmee]
      #52610 - Tue Aug 30 2005 06:16 PM

"Everyone knows global warming has contributed to increased sea levels, and also in the warming of the oceans."

I don't think that's accurate. I know many people including myself that don't buy into the global warming issue as it is stated by media and political parties. However, this is about Katrina so I'm returning to that topic.

I heard on one of the networks that a Navy unit was being sent to NO. Is that true?
Also, someone earlier stated that Jeb Bush had warned Florida about a gasoline shortage and possible rationing. Does anyone have a link to that or know if it's rumor? I know after last years hurricanes that was going around and turned out to be false.


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Clark
Meteorologist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1710
Loc:
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: emackl]
      #52612 - Tue Aug 30 2005 06:18 PM

It's not entirely accurate, but that's another debate for a long time after this storm is gone & the cleanup has begun.

--------------------
Current Tropical Model Output Plots
(or view them on the main page for any active Atlantic storms!)


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BTfromAZ
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Tue
Posts: 75
Loc: San Francisco/Green Valley, AZ
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: OcalaKT]
      #52614 - Tue Aug 30 2005 06:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Couldn't AMTRAK or Greyhound be used to get people with no transportation out of evacuation areas and to shelters in other towns?




According to the WSJ, they were:

Quote:

One major area of concern was poor residents who lacked their own transportation. Mayor Nagin urged churches Sunday morning to arrange evacuations for those who might not have access to a car. He mentioned Amtrak and Greyhound as possibilities, but as time got scarce, such options grew more difficult. The mayor encouraged people leaving the city to pick up anyone they knew who didn't have means to evacuate, but acknowledged that many poor New Orleans residents lacked a clear way to get out.

New Orleans used city buses to help transport some people, according to Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. "I think enough was done" to get the roughly 100,000 New Orleans residents without access to a car out of the city in time, he said, adding that the only question he raised about the handling of the evacuation is whether the mandatory evacuation should have been called earlier.




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BTfromAZ
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Tue
Posts: 75
Loc: San Francisco/Green Valley, AZ
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: damejune2]
      #52618 - Tue Aug 30 2005 06:51 PM

Quote:

The looters will meet their doom one way or another.




I'll repeat what I said before. Anyone out and about, wading around in that "water" in the streets of New Orleans, is asking for a very nasty death. Have the news reports shown the first corpse floated up from one of the well-known cemetaries yet? I haven't seen it but I expect to. The mosquitos are right now beginning to multiply and soon will be spreading disease among those out and about, looting or otherwise, in the city. I suspect what is happening is going to resemble one of those sci-fi movies where the impending victims go merrily about their business unaware that their fate is sealed.

There needs to be a massive public health effort to (1) get everybody out of the flooded areas whether they want to go or not, (2) innoculate them against the better known infectious diseases; (3) enforce sanitation measures (pure drinking water, use of safe toilet facilities etc); (4) suppress mosquito breeding by aerial spraying; (5) treating any illness that develops promptly.

Watch for the first reports of skin infections in a day or two followed by diarrheal diseases in 3 or 4 days. The looters are likely to find their booty not wofrth what it has cost them.


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WhitherWeather
Verified CFHC User


Reged: Sat
Posts: 20
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: ShanaTX]
      #52619 - Tue Aug 30 2005 06:53 PM

For anyone who hasn't yet seen them, the aerial videos on the WWLTV web site (links under aerial photo on home page, at least as I type this) are compelling proof to me that most so-called media and even many emergency officials are speaking from a state of shock that hasn't yet allowed the impact of this, even just in N.O., to hit home. And as far as I know, the situation there is still on the deterioration curve. It hasn't bottomed. The eerie silence of the videos is the only appropriate commentary possible. I was thankful for no babbling head to evaluate what I was seeing.

WhitherWeather


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BTfromAZ
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Tue
Posts: 75
Loc: San Francisco/Green Valley, AZ
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: emackl]
      #52621 - Tue Aug 30 2005 07:03 PM

Quote:

heard on one of the networks that a Navy unit was being sent to NO. Is that true?




Just before the storm came ashore, I heard an interview with the 2nd (Atlantic) Fleet Commander (4-star admiral) who said they had an assault ship task force laying off Texas and ready to go in as soon as the storm was over. This type of ship looks like a small aircraft carrier and carries a 600-bed medical unit as well as a number of helicopters and can carry a large detachment of marines. Just after the 1989 earthquake here in San Francisco, they docked one at a city pier and provided housing for hundreds of people onboard. But the assault ship will be accompanied by an oiler (essentially, an oil tanker) and other ships. I have not yet seen evidence of these personnel other than I did see one report on CNN of an oil tanker pulling into NO with fuel for the generators being used all over town and wondered if that was a Navy oiler (they didn't show pictures so I couldn't tell).

Aside from that, Gulfport MS is a major Seabee (CB = (Navy) Construction Battalion) base and they would be ideal people to help with the cleanup and restoration of services. Seabee rates include construction electricians, heavy equipment operators and all the other construction trades. One assumes they will be employed all over the affected area.


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StormKrone
Weather Watcher


Reged: Mon
Posts: 34
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: BTfromAZ]
      #52626 - Tue Aug 30 2005 07:11 PM

from the WWLtv website:

"5:49 P.M. - (AP) WASHINGTON -- The Navy is sending three ships to the Gulf Coast with water and other supplies for those hit by Hurricane Katrina, but officials are urging service members not to try to return to their military bases in New Orleans. "


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Clark
Meteorologist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 1710
Loc:
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: Clark]
      #52627 - Tue Aug 30 2005 07:12 PM

New thread -- let's take discussion on over there, copying & pasting & picking up where we left off as needed. Thanks!

--------------------
Current Tropical Model Output Plots
(or view them on the main page for any active Atlantic storms!)


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kapSt.Cloud
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Fri
Posts: 50
Loc: Long Beach, MS
Re: Katrina Aftermath [Re: Lake Toho - Kissimmee]
      #52629 - Tue Aug 30 2005 07:14 PM

Sorry, moderators, but I read this site for current tropical weather info and all info about hurricanes and their nature. I'm with you guys wanting to keep on topic, but I had to respond to the so-called "Global Warming" postings!
Please, enough blaming of these hurricanes on "Global Warming"! Global warming has been refuted! See the following web-site... http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf42.htm
We are in an active cycle...check your history of past decades...including this one...
http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/historic/nws/images/wea00439.jpg
Also, the hurricanes of 1928 and 1935, etc.
The people that are screaming "Global Warming" are the same ones screaming a few years back about us going into a new Ice Age! Which is it?


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