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Archives >> 2012 News Talkbacks

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MikeCAdministrator
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Reged: Sun
Posts: 2779
Loc: Orlando, FL 28.49N 81.47W
TS Debby Heads East Toward Cedar Key, Florida
      #92880 - Sun Jun 24 2012 04:49 PM

Update - Tuesday, June 26th 6PM EDT
Debby made an official landfall on Steinhatchee this afternoon.

Debby is moving a little bit faster to the east-northeast, at roughly 6 MPH, and is now expected to exit the state to the east by Thursday morning. She is a minimal tropical cyclone, but Debby continues to fire deep to very deep convection in the northeast quadrant, and given its still slow movement, this will result in some more flooding rains as the low level center crosses the state. The persistent, heavy rains will now primarily occur over northeast Florida, as the Panhandle finally begins to dry out and recover.
Ciel

Update - Tuesday, June 26th, Noon EDT
TS Debby was located about 65 miles west of Cedar Key at Noon, Tuesday, and was moving slowly to the east. Maximum sustained winds have decreased to 40mph so Debby is now a minimal Tropical Storm. Landfall is likely Wednesday morning but no increase in intensity is expected and Debby should decrease to Tropical Depression strength on Wednesday as the cyclone crosses the Florida peninsula and moves into the Atlantic Thursday morning. If it survives the crossing, Debby could regain Tropical Storm strength later on Thursday into Friday as the system moves east northeast and northeast into the Atlantic. Periods of heavy rain can still be expected in northeast Florida and southeast Georgia. Feeder bands with brief rain squalls and gusty winds continue to redevelop over the Florida peninsula.
ED

6:30PM Update 25 June 2012
Debby continues slowly advancing NNE to NE, and as of 6PM Monday, was just barely offshore, with its primary center likely in the vicinity of 29.4N 85W.

While not ideally organized as a tropical cyclone, as Debby is still ingesting a great deal of dry air from the north and west, with some shear actually back on the increase, the storm is still creating havoc with inland flooding, minor surge, isolated damaging wind gusts and tornadoes the primary ongoing threats.

Debby's most notable weather so far could be the very heavy band of thunderstorms which has persisted throughout the day along her topside, around Apalachicola, and this feature could last for many more hours still, potentially even a few more days if Debby does not pull east soon enough, as an northeast-southwest oriented boundary with cooler northeast winds collides with the warmer, tropical southerly winds. Storm rainfall totals in this region are already running as high as 15" - 20".

It is now Monday, and assuming the latest forecast is correct, Debby may not even clear Florida's east coast until Thursday or Friday, generating regions of flooding tropical showers and thunderstorms along the way. However, it is worth stressing that confidence is still not high, despite that more model support exists for the track east across the state.

Should the forecast of a slow trip across north Florida verify, steering currents could become very weak once again around the upcoming weekend, and a few of the better models take the cyclone, or what is left of her, on another agonizingly slow trip - this time up the Gulf Stream. If that verifies, and looking at the set up, it very well might, Debby could become much stronger while along the east coast. Model discussions and forecast speculation can be found (and should be discussed) in the Forecast Lounge.
Ciel

11:20 AM Update 25 June 2012
Tropical Storm Debby's official forecast track has shifted again, then time taking it across the Florida Peninsula by the end of the week.

Tropical Storm Warnings now extend from Destin to Englewood, warnings west of Destin were discontinued.

Debby is much weaker this morning, with most of the convection around the center gone, although some convection has fired closer to the center in the last few hours.
If Debby continues to weaken it may dissipate, but as of now it is forecast to cross the peninsula, bringing band of rain over the next few days.

It is currently forecast to weaken to a depression and slowly move across the peninsula and exit on Saturday, after which, if the storm is still intact, it has another chance to regain strength.

After that is speculation, but it could go northeast, out to sea, or continue to hang around offshore.

Since convection has waned, in Central/Western Florida rain will likely be much more off and on than yesterday.

6:30 AM Update 25 June 2012
Debby has lost most of its core convection overnight and remains much weaker than yesterday, but is caught between two anticyclones and will likely remain in put for a few days.

On water vapor and IR satellite, Debby is not looking very healthy, and may eventually just fall apart, but it remains over water and has enough circulation to stay alive at least a few more days pumping moisture from the south and streaming it over west/central Florida, and the Panhandle for a few days.

Original Update
Tropical Storm Debby's 5PM update has come, and the official forecast track has shifted well east, now land falling somewhere in the Panhandle of Florida... around Thursday..

It may be a bit before that, but the general idea is that Debby will sit and spin for a few days in the Gulf, bringing rain and surge to the Northeastern Gulf.

Because of the shift, all the warnings in Louisiana have been cancelled, and tropical storm watches have been extended southward on Florida's west coast south to Englewood (just north of Ft. Myers).

The forecast keeps it out in the Gulf for a while, so it still could change. The entire Gulf needs to monitor it. But the pounding rain and high surge/surf along the West Coast will continue potentially for a few days. If anything were to change, it would likely be a shortening of the time it spends in the Gulf.

long term recording of the NASA color gulf sat for Debby:
http://flhurricane.com/cyclone/animator.php?130

or http://flhurricane.com/cyclone/imageanimator.php?130 (if older browsers)

Florida Radar Recording of Debby Here, or Here

Power outage map for Florida (Progress Energy)

Florida Emergency Management

Jacksonville, FL Area Media:

Jacksonville.com The Florida Times-Union

News 4 Jacksonville

First Coast News TV

WAWS Fox 30 TV

Northeast Florida Power Outage Maps:

Power Outage Maps for Jacksonville Area

FPL Power Outage Map

Clay Electric Power Outage Map
Tampa Area Media:

Bay News 9

WFLA News 8 (NBC)

Bay Action News (ABC)

WTSP Channel 10 (CBS)

My Fox Tampa Bay

Tampa Bay Times

Tampa Bay Online

Live Stream:
WTSP 10 Tampa TV Live Stream

HCW Live Stream Beach Cam (West end of Gulf Shores, AL)
Panama City Beach cams

Flhurricane Web cam recording out of Madeira Beach
New Style Old Style

Northeast Gulf Links Southeast Composite Radar Loop (Latest Static)

Tampa Bay, FL Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)

Key West, FL Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)

Mobile, AL Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)

Tallahassee FL Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)

Northwest Florida Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)

Gulf of Mexico Satellite Imagery

SFWMD Full Florida Radar (Includes east LA, MS,AL) Loop with Storm Track

Area Forecast Discussions: Mississippi/Alabama/Pensacola - Panhandle/Tallahassee - Tampa/West Central Florida
East Florida Links Southeast Composite Radar Loop (Latest Static) South to North:

Key West, FL Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)

Miami, FL Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)

Melbourne, FL Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)

Jacksonville, FL Radar Long Range Radar Loop ( Latest Static)


Caribbean/South East Coast Satellite Imagery


SFWMD Radar Loop of South Florida with storm Track


SFWMD Full Florida Radar Loop with Storm Track


Area Forecast Discussions: FLorida Keys - Miami/South Florida - Melbourne/East Central Florida - Jacksonville/Northeast Florida -

Debby Event Related Links
AL042012mltsth.gif
Animated Skeetobite Model Plot of Debby
SFWMD Model Plot (Animated Model Plot) SFWMD Hurricane Page (More Tracking Information)
Clark Evans Track Model Plot of Debby (Animated!)
Clark Evans Intensity Model Plot of Debby (Animated!)
Clark Evans Top 10 Analog Storms for Debby
More model runs on from RAL/Jonathan Vigh's page
NRL Info on Debby -- RAMMB Info

Floater Satellite Images: Visible (Loop), IR (Loop), WV (Loop), Dvorak (Loop), AVN (Loop), RGB (Loop), Rainbow (Loop), Funktop (Loop), RB Top Loop)


Edited by cieldumort (Tue Jun 26 2012 06:09 PM)


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LoisCane
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1198
Loc: South Florida
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: MikeC]
      #92881 - Sun Jun 24 2012 05:45 PM

Your discussion here highlights the problem of forecasting Debby's forward speed and long term track.

The idea and probability of her sitting in the Gulf and continuing to pump moisture over an area that is already experiencing flooding, beach erosion, damage from twisters is a bigger problem than how strong she will be.

For once Intensity and Track are not as important as Forward Speed.

A woman has already died in a "storm related" death in Lake Placid from a Twister. That number could climb if she sticks around as long as some believe she may.

Would love to see the trough get her and take her moisture inland. Tough call.

The trough is there, her moisture seems to respond and yet...she remains anchored in the Gulf barely moving.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/eaus/flash-wv.html

Her tail is anchored so deep down into a flow from the Yucatan into the storm that she can continue to get fed energy way after the storms over Florida die down.

She actually looks better on the Visible Satellite today than she has in a while. You can see a band of convection that has wrapped around her center.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/gmex/vis-l.jpg

Either way the NE Gulf of Mexico is under the gun for "landfall" but everyone is under the gun for severe, tropical weather as she remains almost anchored where she spins.

Lastly, timing is everything in that... it can affect intensity and other things down the road.

But, hearing talk of her being near Hurricane strength on Wednesday near the coast of NE Florida would make the current besieged areas along the NW and West Coast of Florida that much more devastating. Ongoing strong tides, beach erosion, heavy rain and street flooding grown exponentially. A small leak in a roof after a day of rain because a huge leak after 3 days of rain.

Hope they are wrong and she finds a path out of the Gulf and she starts moving...

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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WesnWylie
Weather Guru


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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: MikeC]
      #92883 - Sun Jun 24 2012 05:53 PM

Convection associated with Debby does not appear as strong with warming cloud tops noted on satellite. She is actually moving into the one of the coolest part of the gulf [image]http://www.esl.lsu.edu/webpics/poes/GCOOS/composites/2012-06/120621%2Ecloudmask%2E30daycomp%2Ejpg[/image]. If she were to weaken some, would this lessen the chance of her being picked up by the Eastern US trough? It seems to me that, the stronger she becomes, the greater the Coriolis effect. Thus, she would be more apt to travel N and then NE.

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LoisCane
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1198
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: WesnWylie]
      #92885 - Sun Jun 24 2012 06:22 PM

Okay, that's a positive thought. As I have been thinking that she is moving a bit more NE and looking stronger in ways.

http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/mimic-tpw/natl/anim/latest72hrs.gif

Maybe that's wishful thinking. Whatever emphasis the "trough" has should wane soon... imagine there can be some upwelling as well, unless she is moving faster than forecast. Bryan Norcross seems to believe she is moving a bit... I do tend to go with his gut.

Also, some of those storms should wane as the day moves on and the temperatures lower a bit in the area from Tampa to the Big Bend. They should fire up again tomorrow.

Good point... stronger might help her move faster.

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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OrlandoDan
Storm Tracker


Reged: Mon
Posts: 256
Loc: Longwood, FL 28.69N 81.44W
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: WesnWylie]
      #92886 - Sun Jun 24 2012 06:24 PM

Been raining here in Longwood, Fl all day but seems to be tapering off. Is the convection weakening? Seems the longer she spins over the same loacation, the more she will not have a chance to spin up.-

--------------------
Keith (1988), Charley (2004), Frances (2004) , Jeanne (2004), Fay (2008)


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Colleen A.
Moderator


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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: OrlandoDan]
      #92890 - Sun Jun 24 2012 06:47 PM

Good to be back! The weather here in South Lakeland is getting uglier. We had a little bit of a break but I'm not sure that was such a good thing at all because of the little bit of sunshine that was allowed in at that time. Our pool is almost to the top. Stay safe~turn around, don't drown!

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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MikeCAdministrator
Admin


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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Colleen A.]
      #92892 - Sun Jun 24 2012 06:55 PM

The water vapor is showing a pretty good chunk of dry air getting pulled in from the west side, which may halt any strengthening, and may dry out large chunks of it. The tail southwest of Florida will be a big band of storms that come overnight, and it may confuse situations some more. There will be areas that get tons of rain, and areas that get little, and it'll dry up for a bit in some places in Florida tonight, only later to get a rough band early in the morning.

A large moisture source from near the Yucatan will probably keep the rain flowing into West/Central Florida though. The setup for tonight/tomorrow is very conductive for tornadoes in west/central Florida. A tornado warning just popped up for Wauchula/Hardee county.


There are still a lot of questions regarding Debby, so the forecast is not a set thing yet.


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jdc0616
Registered User


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1
Loc: Clermont, Florida
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: MikeC]
      #92894 - Sun Jun 24 2012 07:22 PM

This is the kind of rain we've needed in West Central Florida for a long time! Glad to see it!

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Colleen A.
Moderator


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1364
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: MikeC]
      #92898 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:12 PM

Watching from western Polk County...the air is getting heavier, the rain is coming and I have a feeling that it's not going to be a pleasant night here. Time to put the kids in the closet again? It's great to be back.

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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OrlandoDan
Storm Tracker


Reged: Mon
Posts: 256
Loc: Longwood, FL 28.69N 81.44W
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: jdc0616]
      #92899 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:13 PM

Agree om the need for a lot of rain here in FL. Live in Longeood and love to take my boat out on the Harris chain. Lake levels were so low I was bottoming out on the Dora Canal. As long as nobidy vets hurt, let it rain. Fill up this aquifer and the lakes!

--------------------
Keith (1988), Charley (2004), Frances (2004) , Jeanne (2004), Fay (2008)


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Littlebit
Weather Watcher


Reged: Fri
Posts: 34
Loc: Plant City, FL
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: OrlandoDan]
      #92900 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:18 PM

Colleen, check WTSP 10 news. They are tracking possible tornadoes right now and Polk county is in their discussion.

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sprghill
Verified CFHC User


Reged: Sat
Posts: 13
Loc: Lake County, FL 28.54N 81.72W
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Littlebit]
      #92901 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:21 PM

It has been raining her in Clermont since 6AM this morning. Do we need the rain over here. Just as long as the wind and tornado's stay away were good.

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Colleen A.
Moderator


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1364
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: sprghill]
      #92902 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:26 PM

Thanks, I will. I am currently watching BayNews9 and they have been on all day long. We're getting a good band of rain right now...not so much wind, though. I have friends whose parents live in Madiera Beach. Looks like they're getting pounded. 17' waves.

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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OrlandoDan
Storm Tracker


Reged: Mon
Posts: 256
Loc: Longwood, FL 28.69N 81.44W
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Colleen A.]
      #92903 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:31 PM

17 foot waves or 17 foot seas? I think the latter. She is not that strong. We are getting a good soaking rain in Longwood. I hoope everyone stays safe and there are no strong tornadoes.

--------------------
Keith (1988), Charley (2004), Frances (2004) , Jeanne (2004), Fay (2008)


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Colleen A.
Moderator


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1364
Loc: Florida
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Littlebit]
      #92904 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:32 PM

Haven't been here for a while, so if this is off subject, I apologize. We're supposed to leave for Canada on Saturday morning for 2 weeks. Wonder if Debby will mess up those plans?
Wow..getting really ugly here..rain blowing in from the East. Cannot believe the people that are trying to drive in this.

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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Colleen A.
Moderator


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1364
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Colleen A.]
      #92906 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:36 PM

You are correct. I apologize. 17' waves would probably put all of them under water. My bad.

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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OrlandoDan
Storm Tracker


Reged: Mon
Posts: 256
Loc: Longwood, FL 28.69N 81.44W
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Colleen A.]
      #92907 - Sun Jun 24 2012 08:46 PM

17 foot seas are massive for the Gulf. No apologies necessary. I hope to hell that there are no idiot small craft out there.

--------------------
Keith (1988), Charley (2004), Frances (2004) , Jeanne (2004), Fay (2008)


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Colleen A.
Moderator


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1364
Loc: Florida
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: OrlandoDan]
      #92908 - Sun Jun 24 2012 09:17 PM

I'm pretty sure they said 17' seas. That is on top of the 1-2 seas they already had before the storm came. We just had a few palm fronds hit the pool cage. And this will be my normal self: if there are any idiots out there, then they better hope they can get in touch with the Coast Guard. People that ignore warnings are just stupid. I won't apologize for that comment; it's just like people that drive through water...which I've seen so many times tonight. Stay home, watch a movie and take care of your family.

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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Joeyfl
Weather Guru


Reged: Mon
Posts: 101
Loc: St.Pete,FL
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Colleen A.]
      #92910 - Sun Jun 24 2012 09:38 PM

This is really going into the record books especially with respect to rainfall here in bay area. And just in past hour a Tornado came ashore near Tierra Verde and St.Pete beach areas. It was caught on camera and looked fairly large and quite a bit of damage in the the area. It came right over my house but thankfully it just lifted before reaching us but measured winds 51mph and tree limbs are down in my yard.

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Colleen A.
Moderator


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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Joeyfl]
      #92912 - Sun Jun 24 2012 09:41 PM

Wow I saw that on Bay New 9! Incredible! So glad you're okay! They're still trying to figure out exactly where that was..give them a call, lol!

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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LadyStorm
Weather Guru


Reged: Thu
Posts: 138
Loc: Ormond Beach, Florida
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: MikeC]
      #92915 - Sun Jun 24 2012 10:11 PM

Very windy and rainy here in Palm Coast. Debbie has the appearance of a hybrid system.

--------------------
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them"

..........Albert Einstein


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Colleen A.
Moderator


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1364
Loc: Florida
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: LadyStorm]
      #92916 - Sun Jun 24 2012 10:23 PM

That last band we just got here in Lakeland was pretty intense. A LOT of wind and a LOT of rain. Lightning and thunder, too. I'm hearing from Bay News 9 that this thing may hang around until Thursday. I hope not! Stay safe everyone!

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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OrlandoDan
Storm Tracker


Reged: Mon
Posts: 256
Loc: Longwood, FL 28.69N 81.44W
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Colleen A.]
      #92918 - Sun Jun 24 2012 10:40 PM

Off and on hits of rain here in FL in Longwood. Hope we don't get hammered with Tornadic conditions tonightn

--------------------
Keith (1988), Charley (2004), Frances (2004) , Jeanne (2004), Fay (2008)


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Colleen A.
Moderator


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1364
Loc: Florida
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: OrlandoDan]
      #92920 - Sun Jun 24 2012 10:46 PM

This is going to be one of those nights where I sleep on the couch and listen to the BEEP BEEP BEEP on TWC. I'll do ANYTHING to keep my family safe. Am anxious (and a little hopefull) to see the 11pm update. Bryan Norcross (sp?) is seeing that dry air starting to impede on Debby from the west side. Hope she doesn't start moving faster and escape it.

--------------------
You know you're a hurricane freak when you wake up in the morning and hit "REFRESH" on CFHC instead of the Snooze Button.


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LoisCane
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1198
Loc: South Florida
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Colleen A.]
      #92924 - Sun Jun 24 2012 11:23 PM

Good luck... it's a wide area across the State that will be doing the same tonight.

Tornado warnings all over. Damage reports coming in...

I see the discussion from the NHC... seems a lot of intangibles.

The best thing that could happen is if she takes the GFS solution exiting stage left across the state, however the discussion explains why they don't think she will do that... they also leave the door open that they could be wrong.

Dry air moving in... can she battle that and hold on for several days or will they dramatically change the "cone" in the morning. The "cone" looking more like the ice cream on top of the proverbial cone.

Great discussion here, learning a lot and quietly reading.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/gmex/flash-avn.html

Hoping that the moisture train is shut down and she becomes detached, decoupled from that weather center and just pulls in stays a small, tight swirl visible only on the visible allowing people across the state a chance to clean up and for the waters to recede.

Meanwhile, a death report from Alabama has come in that is considered for now a "storm related death" ...

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/gmex/flash-wv.html

Despite what I have read in the discussion, she seems closer to the coast than the coords given out. An illusion I suppose.

"THE APPEARANCE OF DEBBY IN SATELLITE AND RADAR IMAGERY HAS DEGRADED
SIGNIFICANTLY THIS EVENING AS A SHARP MID-LEVEL DRY INTRUSION HAS
WORKED ITS WAY INTO THE CENTER OF THE CYCLONE AND ERODED ALL OF THE
INNER CORE DEEP CONVECTION. THE INITIAL INTENSITY IS BEING HELD AT
50 KT FOR THIS FORECAST PACKAGE BASED MAINLY ON CONTINUITY WITH THE
PREVIOUS ADVISORY"

Seems low confidence in their own forecast.

A new tornado warning near Melbourne:

http://forecast.weather.gov/showsigwx.ph...e1=Melbourne+FL
&product1=Tornado+Warning

Best advice I could give tonight is to keep the Weather Radio on and handy.... working, on....... going to be a hard night in a lot of places.

And, no closer to knowing for sure what she will do in the morning. Suppose the answer is also rain wrapped.



"HEAVY RAINFALL MAY OBSCURE THIS TORNADO."

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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Joeyfl
Weather Guru


Reged: Mon
Posts: 101
Loc: St.Pete,FL
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Colleen A.]
      #92925 - Sun Jun 24 2012 11:28 PM

This really has been an amazing storm so far here on the west coast of FL. There was significant flooding on the beaches with water over seawalls and invading peoples homes, cars submerged, and numerous tornadoes all over the area and just missing my own location which had a high gust of 51mph from the same storm that produced the Tornado just few miles to my south. And we may have a couple days left of this...

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Ed DunhamAdministrator
Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator


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Loc: Melbourne, FL
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: MikeC]
      #92927 - Sun Jun 24 2012 11:34 PM

Lots of good weather reports here that would be better suited to the 'Debby Conditions in Your Area' thread that is located in the Storm Forum. Good discussions on the storm itself are certainly appropriate for the Main Page thread. If you haven't checked out that thread in the Storm Forum, there is some excellent reporting over there.
ED


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berrywr
Weather Analyst


Reged: Fri
Posts: 339
Loc: Opelika, AL 32.71N 85.23W
Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Ed Dunham]
      #92929 - Mon Jun 25 2012 12:14 AM

I will make this brief this evening...I was over in Brunswick, GA today and just got back home a short time ago. I took a good look at the current upper air analysis charts and Ed's right...Debby will be with us for the foreseeable future. 500 mb upper air analysis reveals multiple upper ridges; the mid-continental is coming in this evening with a stout 598 decameter center with axis extending ESE to a small center just east of Charleston, SC coming in at 588 and a ridge axis extending clear across the Atlantic to Africa and another axis extending to the Antilles; there were height falls as far as Slidell, LA with a decrease of 10 decameters and Jacksonville and Appalachacola coming in at 30 decameter falls during the past 12 hours...this would suggest the trough along the NE USA is stronger than earlier depicted and verifies why the GFS is persistent in pulling the system poleward and NE. The ECMWF has been extremely reliable these past few tropical seasons; however; there using new SOIl parameters in the model as of June 19; particularly over the continent of Africa; the ECMWF continues to slowly move the system west in response to the strong upper ridge over the center of the US; this leaves Debby in what we call a COL...it's a crap shoot as to what way Debby will go and how the synoptic scale features evolve...there is simply no way in the here and now we know as to how this plays out...I wish I had a better solution; but the models really are struggling with this system given the strengths of the ridges involved. There was an interesting feature on satellite imagery this evening...possibly a gravity wake that moved rapidly east...it is extremely difficult to find the center on IR tonight.

--------------------
Sincerely,

Bill Berry

"To work in the service of life and the living..." - John Denver


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WesnWylie
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: berrywr]
      #92930 - Mon Jun 25 2012 01:04 AM

First off, great analysis! What are your thoughts on the upper-level low in the western GOM? This feature helped lift Debby more northward than expected, but what impacts, if any, do you think it will have over the next day or so?

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danielwAdministrator
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: berrywr]
      #92932 - Mon Jun 25 2012 07:25 AM

I propose 2 new models the COIN and EWG.
Flip a COIN or Educated Wild Guess.

Now on to Check the Daily Jumble... err I mean the Models. Looks like a Hydra to me. Kelly Cass called them the Spider ensemble plot.


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Jumaduke
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: WesnWylie]
      #92933 - Mon Jun 25 2012 07:46 AM

Looking at the latest radar image it's really difficult for me to see Debby as a "traditional" TS system. They must be claiming that it has a center of circulation, as it's still identified as a TS, but to have this kind of image come off radar, where's the rain? As it stands, my area is under a flood warning because of the precipitation that has already fallen in the last 24 hours, but I'm having a hard time believing that Debby is going to add much more water to our area. Maybe I'm missing something, as I'm a general weather newbie. It seems like a very schizophrenic storm ... pressure has fallen from 1000mb at 8:00 p.m. Saturday to 991mb at 11:00 p.m. Sunday, yet activity seems to have dramatically decreased. Am I seeing this right, that
the center isn't even clouding up ?

--------------------
Go Gators!

Edited by Jumaduke (Mon Jun 25 2012 07:48 AM)


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danielwAdministrator
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Jumaduke]
      #92935 - Mon Jun 25 2012 08:08 AM

Debby, to me, is a split level storm. Mid and upper level GFS is handling well.
The lower level is being handled by the various models wanting to take Debby west to Texas.

The 00Z GFDL and HWRF are taking Debby to the area between just east of Mobile Bay to the MS/ AL line in a few days. I didn't really look at the wind speeds or the pressure of either model as i am looking at landfall.

Edited by danielw (Mon Jun 25 2012 08:15 AM)


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LoisCane
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: danielw]
      #92936 - Mon Jun 25 2012 09:05 AM

Good honest discussion here.

Discussion out of the NHC this morning is one of the better ones I've seen in that it honestly talks about the Tropical Storm conditions in various areas.... as far north as the coast of Georgia and South Carolina

So, while looking at your local conditions, you might want to compare and contrast later with what the NHC forecasted this morning.

I know weather last night in South Florida was stronger than anyone expected it to be as the dry line set up one long ...what looked like a pre-frontal trough line like you usually see in the winter. But, that reflects the cooler dry air that was being forced north into Debby mixing with the very warm air.

You can see this here:

http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/mimic-tpw/natl/anim/latest72hrs.gif

Also, thanks for the explanation for why the GFS may have handled it better.

Locally, weather mets on air in Raleigh NC are insistent this is a "strong front" for this time of year and it will be clearing the area by this evening... and the morning will bring temps in the 60s... that's a big drop.

Will Debby take the bait or sit and wait?

If she does.... the GFS needs to be more respected next time around..

Just want to add.... I also think this storm is not "stacked" well and there are centers at different levels. It hasn't been spoken about much, it reminds me more of some old images of Superstorms and not really Tropical Storms ....yet...........it falls barely within the limits of being Tropical and it is on the maps and areas are experiencing Tropical Storm conditions so it's more of dealing with what is and I am sure the post game analysis by the NHC at the end of the season will be extremely compelling reading.

"WIND...TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS WILL CONTINUE OVER PORTIONS OF
THE FLORIDA GULF COAST TODAY.

STORM SURGE...THE COMBINATION OF A STORM SURGE AND THE TIDE WILL
CAUSE NORMALLY DRY AREAS NEAR THE COAST TO BE FLOODED BY RISING
WATERS. THE WATER COULD REACH THE FOLLOWING DEPTHS ABOVE GROUND AT
THE TIMES OF HIGH TIDE OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS...

APALACHEE BAY TO WACCASASSA BAY...4 TO 6 FT
FLORIDA WEST COAST SOUTH OF WACCASASSA BAY...2 TO 4 FT
ALABAMA-FLORDA BORDER EASTWARD TO APALACHEE BAY...2 TO 4 FT
SOUTHEASTERN LOUISIANA TO ALABAMA-FLORIDA BORDER...1 TO 3 FT

PLEASE SEE PRODUCTS ISSUED BY YOUR LOCAL NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE."

"RAINFALL...DEBBY IS EXPECTED TO PRODUCE TOTAL RAIN ACCUMULATIONS OF
10 TO 15 INCHES OVER EASTERN PORTIONS OF THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE AND
NORTHERN FLORIDA...WITH ISOLATED MAXIMUM AMOUNTS OF 25 INCHES
POSSIBLE. SURROUNDING THIS AREA...TOTAL RAIN ACCUMULATIONS OF 5 TO
10 INCHES ARE EXPECTED OVER CENTRAL FLORIDA AND SOUTHEAST GEORGIA
INTO COASTAL SOUTH CAROLINA...

$$
FORECASTER KIMBERLAIN/FRANKLIN"

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/

Edited by LoisCane (Mon Jun 25 2012 09:09 AM)


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stormtiger
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: LoisCane]
      #92940 - Mon Jun 25 2012 10:00 AM

On another board I saw where someone was giving the GFS credit for coming closest to the track of Debby, but for the wrong reason. They felt that the GFS had Debby being pulled Northeast by the trough to her North while in fact the upper low to Debby's west pushed her Northeast when it took a Southwest dive in the GOM.

I read this site religiously and honestly feel the guys and gals here have some of the best takes and the approach here to analyze and not hype is defintely better than the other places to get tropical information.

So what do some of you think? Was the GFS right for the wrong reason or was it just right?

Ed, if my question is not in the right forum please relocate as need be.

Thanks


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LoisCane
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: stormtiger]
      #92941 - Mon Jun 25 2012 10:09 AM

Good question, same request but responding.

An ULL is a funny thing. If you are on one side of it, it makes you look fantastic... ventilates you and helps you become a tropical entity often.

The wrong side of an ULL and it eats away at you, pushes you away, creates a very hostile environment.

Oddly, I thought often while viewing Debby that she looks a lot like one of those Upper Level Lows that track west over South Florida and when you get their "dirty side" the signature looks very similar and so does the messy rain.

It's not all about the trough, but I do believe the GFS read the trough and other variables better than the Euro did.

Now what is my question for this or any forum.

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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Beach
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: LoisCane]
      #92944 - Mon Jun 25 2012 12:36 PM

I don't think Debby is ready to quit just yet. Looking at the Visible: http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/gmex/flash-vis.html
You can still see the center pretty well.
Lets not forget Fay... "Go away Fay" Just a simple TS that sat off the coast for 3 days dumping 30 inches of rain in Melbourne. I'm here in Cocoa and it's been raing pretty much non stop since yesterday. 3-5 more days of this and the real pain begins.
Atleast all the fires are put out. :-) ... Thank You Mother Nature. ... be careful what you wish for.


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berrywr
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: WesnWylie]
      #92946 - Mon Jun 25 2012 01:19 PM

Thanks! I'm looking at the 500 mb Upper Air Analysis right now...quick discussion...and height falls are still in progress over the SE USA...I want to take a look at a few other charts from the 12Z run...

--------------------
Sincerely,

Bill Berry

"To work in the service of life and the living..." - John Denver


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doug
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: berrywr]
      #92947 - Mon Jun 25 2012 01:43 PM

Haven't looked here for over a day. I think GFS wins. The midwest ridge influence enters the GOM over Louisiana, and the trough is lifting the system out. The real winner has been the dry air over run which likely was influenced by the ULL in the W/GOM which has always been a player. It kept the system from being more formidible than it is. The whole GOM seems to be under an upper level cycloninc flow right now.

--------------------
doug


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Steve H1
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Re: Debby Weaker, Now Forecast to Move Across Florida [Re: MikeC]
      #92948 - Mon Jun 25 2012 02:36 PM

The trouble with Debby! She is meandering around with fairly steady shear over her. If she maintains depression status and crosses mainland Florida into the Atlantic, wonder if the ridge will get on top of her and stall her OR move her back westward. She is moving slowly NE but caught in between troughiness in the western Atlantic and ridge to the west. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Edited by Ed Dunham (Mon Jun 25 2012 05:00 PM)


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WeatherNut
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: Beach]
      #92952 - Mon Jun 25 2012 04:51 PM

Its looking to me like the center has been pulled underneath the latest blow up of convection. This would put it just barely onshore. The low level feed is also indicating this

--------------------
Born into Cleo (64)...been stuck on em ever since


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berrywr
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Re: Debby to Sit and Spin off the Florida Panhandle [Re: WeatherNut]
      #92953 - Mon Jun 25 2012 04:57 PM

Excellent observation...center has reformed to just barely offshore Appalachiacola, FL...visible imagery has the tiniest of centers there.

--------------------
Sincerely,

Bill Berry

"To work in the service of life and the living..." - John Denver


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weatherhead
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Re: Slow Moving Debby's Center Nearly Onshore, Flooding Rains to Continue [Re: MikeC]
      #92962 - Mon Jun 25 2012 08:24 PM

I believe the center is now moving S or SSW, unless it is a wobble or being elongated. We'll have to wait and see for the next fix, I guess. Below is a link to the NHC radar.
Please correct if I see this wrong.

http://radar.weather.gov/ridge/radar.php?rid=TLH&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=yes

Edited by weatherhead (Mon Jun 25 2012 08:28 PM)


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LoisCane
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Re: Slow Moving Debby's Center Nearly Onshore, Flooding Rains to Continue [Re: weatherhead]
      #92964 - Mon Jun 25 2012 09:44 PM

I have a question. it's one of those murky areas ...some years there is much discussion and other years not though mostly related to west bound tropical waves.

Why is this not considered a decoupled system... she definitely seems to have two centers... upper or mid level and another lower level. I've seen waves and depressions where the NHC waxed poetic on this... but this storm that hovers just off of the coast seems to fit that basic... example.

Watching a long loop of the visible floater you can see one part moving consistently and the other anchored back below barely moving. Not just blow ups but what seems to be the storm moving. I know... "seems" isn't fact.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floaters/04L/flash-vis-long.html

Trying to understand this difficult to understand storm.

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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berrywr
Weather Analyst


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Re: Slow Moving Debby's Center Nearly Onshore, Flooding Rains to Continue [Re: LoisCane]
      #92965 - Tue Jun 26 2012 12:24 AM

I will take a crack at answering your questions - 1) West moving tropical waves have their weather "behind" the wave and not in front of them; whereas with shortwaves and troughs generally have their weather in front relative to movement. 2) Debby is not decoupled for a couple of reasons; one she's not vertically deep but is depicted on upper air analysis with a circulation to at least 500 millibars or 18,000 feet MSL as she currently is this evening; two, looking at the water vapor imagery this evening, Debby isn't much more vertical than depicted at 500 millibars; there is no cyclonic or anticyclonic rotation evident. What is evident is the deepening trough along the Eastern Seaboard as heights continue to fall along the coast and winds aloft at 300 millibars or 30,000 feet MSL depict winds coming around at Charleston, SC from ESE to NW. The 26/03Z discussion has indicated that the low level center is subject to re-define itself dependent upon where convection fires so expect more vortices and a jumping of coordinates.

--------------------
Sincerely,

Bill Berry

"To work in the service of life and the living..." - John Denver


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Joeyfl
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Re: Slow Moving Debby's Center Nearly Onshore, Flooding Rains to Continue [Re: berrywr]
      #92977 - Tue Jun 26 2012 08:12 PM

Well TD Debby is now moving more to southeast is located right over Cedar key and this is reflected by 997mb pressure there. After coming just barely ashore in Dixie county.

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