emackl
Storm Tracker
Reged:
Posts: 205
Loc: Indianapolis
|
|
"A CNN reporter at the convention center a little while ago said that multiple people came up to him and told him "how much worse it was at night." He said they told him that at least three people were murdered and there were several rapes"
My biggest problem is I only believe a little of what the reporters say. They want a story. Unless I can see what's going on for myself I'm going to assume everything is being done as quickly as possible. Afterwards, when I get the facts I'll make my decision. Also, I just heard on FNC that there's a lot of "rumors" going on about what happens in the dome. That was by Shep Smith. I happen to loath the man. All he says is no one is telling the people on the bridge where to go. HELLO Shep, why don't you tell them. You have contact with the police. He says they need water. Funny how he can get all his equiptment there but can't get water. Of course not, it would kill his story.
|
Big Red Machine
Storm Tracker
Reged:
Posts: 223
Loc: Polk City, FL
|
|
Unfortunately, I this case I think the reporters are much more reliable than the state of LA or federal officials. They are the ones on the ground going through this themselves. The officials are the ones getting second and third hand information.
Explain this to me: WHY IS A SNIPER FIRING AT CHARITY HOSPITAL?? Why was the captain of a ferryboat just shot? What do the people gain from this? There was some significant fire exchanged. These folks are truly more and more like insurgents.
|
jeangfl
Verified CFHC User
Reged:
Posts: 19
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL
|
|
the head of LA police, Gov. Blanco and other "big wigs" just announced that there were NO PROBLEMS at the hospitals - at the same time CNN is talking to a Dr. at one of the hospitals saying they are being fired upon! What on earth is going on? As private citizens I think we could do a better job than this government is doing. Why can't they drop water and sandwiches from the air? Why can't they get help for these people? Hotels hired buses and the government commandeered them - people are talking on CNN now from the Ritz Carlton begging for help -
My heart is broken........................
|
Juls
Registered User
Reged:
Posts: 3
Loc: Dunedin, FL
|
|
I definately saw alot of water being given out by the case on the videos I watched late last night.
It's getting there, just slowly and very unorganized.
Watching all of this - I am proud of how my fellow floridians came together after our storms - more like what you see in MS and outside of NO.
|
Takingforever
Weather Watcher
Reged:
Posts: 43
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
|
|
Calling them insurgents must mean that you can forget that they are human. and you know humanity when you are pretty much cut off from the rest of socity.
That is what happening in New Orleans, they are pretty much in a hole in the ground with no one to lead them and no easy way to get help when the whole city is flooding. It's easy for Texas and Alabama and and Mississippi to look like they have things organized when they aren't surronded by water and have thousands stranded in the middle. Mississippi doen't have to worry about picking people up off of roofs and having people loot and canals break hours after the storm, most of there people were already dead in the hurricane zone, whereas NO got cut off from the law and order and quick help and this is what happens.
Organization is easy to say and plan, but not to do when you have limited resources because your city got cut off from the rest of the world and two states over are jsut as bad if not worst off as you are and we have most of our trained people who would be on stand-by to deal with this are in a war on the other side of the world(Don't believe tthem when they say we have enough people to handle this disaster, if we did, then we wouldn't be having this problem). There are so many peopel vs so little helpers who are ready and no one knew the real damage and mentality of what people woudl do in this situation till Tuesday.
Insurgents, why don't you just call them Terrorist...
|
Big Red Machine
Storm Tracker
Reged:
Posts: 223
Loc: Polk City, FL
|
|
When I... a staunch conservative... agree with Jack Cafferty WHOLE HEARTEDLY... it is truly an awful situation. If anyone heard him earlier today, he really let loose, and I couldn't agree more.
Those inside the city right now are clearly much more reliable sources than those who have not entered the city. Just as an example: The governor insists that no National Guardsman was shot at the Superdome earlier. If she were to even just listen to the scanners, she would know this she is wrong.
Yes they are terrorists. Exactly. They are inflicting terror on the innoncents in the area. The thing that gets me is this shouldn't be a suprise. This area has been studied time and time again for this particular scenario. That's what I don't understand. Why we can't react better. From the reports inside New Orleans (not just some reports... all reports) there is virtually no organization.
Edited by Big Red Machine (Thu Sep 01 2005 07:52 PM)
|
cwia
Registered User
Reged:
Posts: 3
Loc: hobe sound, fl
|
|
i am sick at heart. we have babies dying up there, we have senior citizens dropping in the streets, we have walking wounded and people dying from dehydration. it hurts so bad thinking about the police, the service people, the medical people who are risking their lives every MINUTE up there. the "crazies" are most likely druggies in the middle of forced withdrawal. why else would anybody with a shred of humanity point a weapon at a hospital or steal from an institution trying to keep their neighbors alive?? why must the liberty and life of so many be compromised by a few, and they do it with impunity.
dear God, President Bush get OFF TV, away from in front of the reporters, and SEND HELP.
|
Bloodstar
Moderator
Reged:
Posts: 462
Loc: Tucson, AZ
|
|
I really don't want to bury my head in the sand, but this coverage is overwhelming. I don't want to turn my TV on. The only thing I can think to do is to go in city block by city block with national guard and army troops and move everyone out forcibly. Calling them insurgents implies that they're fighting the US government, when in reality most of them are simply taking advantage of the preception of lack of law.
Getting into a psychological side for a moment. A lot of law enforcement is mental, if you do something you will be caught. That even if you don't see the law enforcement, it's still present. The reality is, most laws broken are not enforced nor can they or will they (ubiquitous tracking and cameras not withstanding). In NO, the mental preception of law has been ripped away. And you have enough of a subset of people who want to take advantage of the reality to either impose their will upon others, or to treat this as an 'end of the world' and that their actions have no consequences.
In order to get the mental preception back in place, a massive physical presence is going to be needed, as the reach of law in NO will now be limited to the places where law enforcement phsyically is. I don't know where the US can find the troops that will be needed (not police officers, they would get massacred if they went in right now), But they're going to need a ton of them just to regain control of the groups that are out of control.
As far as blaming the leaders. I won't give them a pass, because they are the ones who HAVE to make the tough choices. I know the Mayor of NO is never going to be the same (and you can say, at least he's alive), but he is going to live with the fact that he knows that he could have done more. Every one of those deaths are going to be on his mind, probably for every day of his life. Same thing with the Governor. I won't give them a pass, but I hope that I never ever find myself going through anything even remotely like what they must be going through and will go through.
As far as the relief effort. They're trying, they really are. Maybe the coordination isn't what it could be. But Honestly I think they are doing about the best they can do in an impossible situation. Sure some officals won't admit the truth, that the situation is out of their control and has been out of their control for a while. They have to recognize the situation and accept that things are out of control. Then work to regain control.
Maybe the priority is to find survivors. But... people 'rescued' are dying, Lawlessness is now an increasing threat to the remaining survivors. It is time for the priority to change slightly.
-Mark
My apologies for the rambling nature...
--------------------
M. S. Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Tech - May 2020
Brookhaven National Laboratory
U. Arizona PhD Student
|
Takingforever
Weather Watcher
Reged:
Posts: 43
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
|
|
Quote:
Why we can't react better. From the reports inside New Orleans (not just some reports... all reports) there is virtually no organization.
Well I think the blame comes down to how everyone is seperated. if everyone was in the Dome and it didn't fall apart and the tolets didn't run over, we see a better story right now.
But with all of stories of "Everyone for themselves" on the blog networks I'm reading(the#1 source for info from the human POV), I can see why no matter how many police/guards there were, most wouldn't listen to them in the first place(I read many stayed in NO because they wanted to protect there livelihood, idiots). I think we can blame culture in the Big Easy for that one.
I mean they could of started beating people and shooting them if they didn't listen..but hey I don't think anyone would want that...after all in some spots the poeple out number the police/guards. This isn't a small town in Mississippi or Florada with a coupel of thousand of peoplewho got hit by a hurricane or one section of New york City fall down, we are talknig about a whole major city(Million plus) and it suburbs with tens of thousand of people trying to get ot one place(The Superdome) and others doing what they need to do to survive, since most of them(Black) don't trust the goverment in the first palce...
Edited by Takingforever (Thu Sep 01 2005 08:07 PM)
|
Ron Basso
Storm Tracker
Reged:
Posts: 267
Loc: hernando beach, FL
|
|
Big red I completely agree. The local and state governments (both LA and MISS) have been completely overwhelmed by the shear size and scope of the storm - this is MAJOR chaos unfolding. They were interviewing the head of FEMA last nite on CNN (Aaron Brown) and he was hammering this FEMA guy Mike Brown for not having pre-storm supplies and troops in place knowing a CAT 5 storm was on its way. Aaron Brown really put this FEMA guy on the defensive and he tried changing the subject about we can analyze this at a later date (their slow response) - we just need to get supplies in now (amen to that!). Heaven forbid we have a major terrorist attack if this is the way the federal government responds. A paltry eight search and rescue boats on its way when there are tens of thousands of people that need to be brought out? A meager 25,000 troops spread out over 3 states plus NO? We need tent cities and all the supplies necessary now for at least several hundred thousand people.
Edited by Ron Basso (Thu Sep 01 2005 08:19 PM)
|
Jax Chris
Weather Watcher
Reged:
Posts: 28
Loc: Jacksonville Beach, FL
|
|
Quote:
Amazing video! WOW.
Did anyone see the snow job that FEMA Director Chertoff did at his news conference? What he said does not mesh with what the video and eye witness accounts at the city show. "We are bringing in thousands and thousands of gallons of water for the survivors." Not according to the thousands at the Convention Center (where three people were murdered last night and several were raped). I realize that public officials must keep morale up, but it is clear (from viewing the video, hearing the people, and listening to the streaming police and fire scanners), and will be made clear when it is revealed how many died of thirst/hunger/lack of security, etc. that Chertoff was completely out of touch with the reality of the situation.
The mayor of New Orleans just sent out "a desperate S.O.S." Sure Director Chertoff.... I believe you. What a farce of a press conference.
I see that Chetoff didn't say, "We have brought thousands and thousands of gallons...," he said, "We are bringing..." Since you're saying that he's incorrect, you are contending that there's no water on the way. Please, tell us the source that leads you to believe that no water is on the way. Or, if the problem is you think that water has taken too long to get there, where would you have shipped the water from, over what routes, and how would you have delivered the water to its final destination in the Superdome? What leads you to believe that those routes are available?
You also indicate that a supply of water would have prevented murders and rapes. I can imagine some circumstances where a water supply would prevent murders, but I would appreciate it if you could explain how a source of water would prevent rapes. I guess I'm just dense; I would contend that people having respect for each other would have prevented these alleged (since I've not heard reports, but I'll admit that they possibly did occur) murders and rapes.
I don't expect answers to these questions, especially since this isn't the correct forum for this discussion. But the tone has gotten increasingly shrill, and seems to have descended into attempting to manufacture evidence that people involved in handling the disaster aren't doing all that can be done to ease the situation. Sitting back, arm-chair quaterbacking, is easy. "I'd get them food." Fine. From where? How much? How to get it there? Can we go all the way by road, or are parts impassable? If we need to change from one form of transportation to another, where can that be done? What could we have used the space to bring in if we didn't bring in food; insulin, for example? How do we distribute it at the end without causing a riot? It's these little details of actually doing it that are hard.
Well, I guess I've made my first post that'll get sent to the graveyard (except for this sentence saying it'll be sent to the graveyard, and the moderator's note, "You got that right"). But these constant complaints about the disaster management team not living up to an impossible standard are getting tiring.
Jax Chris
i'm not gonna graveyard it, but other mods might...but you didn't get it right either
Edited by LI Phil (Thu Sep 01 2005 08:53 PM)
|
Random Chaos
Weather Analyst
Reged:
Posts: 1024
Loc: Maryland
|
|
Found a link of a lot of photos:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/galleries/305-5.html?SITE=MIDTN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
They've also added New Orleans photos to the NOAA sat page:
http://alt.ngs.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM
And from that page, here's the main levee breach:
http://mfproducts.nos.noaa.gov/storms/katrina/24425580.jpg
(we almost need a seperate thread for photos and images...)
Edited by Random Chaos (Thu Sep 01 2005 08:22 PM)
|
StormHound
Weather Guru
Reged:
Posts: 187
Loc: Orlando, FL
|
|
Quote:
You also indicate that a supply of water would have prevented murders and rapes. I can imagine some circumstances where a water supply would prevent murders, but I would appreciate it if you could explain how a source of water would prevent rapes. I guess I'm just dense; I would contend that people having respect for each other would have prevented these alleged (since I've not heard reports, but I'll admit that they possibly did occur) murders and rapes.
See above comments by Bloodstar as to how food and water can prevent murders and rapes. The normal boundaries we build around us to keep us an orderly society have been ripped away in New Orleans. Basic human neccessities like food, water and shelter go a long way to alleviate mental stresses.
--------------------
Storm Hound
Computer Geek
|
Rick on boat in Mobile
Weather Drama Guru
Reged:
Posts: 161
|
|
there are situations in life where there is no available help right away. That's the way it is. Sad, but true. And to suggest humans are capable of producing perfect scenarios is unrealistic. The best thing to do is help...
We humans sometimes get ourselves into situations that we cause. But even if that is so...officials can't just wave a stick and it happens....Only God can do that...
I have a work mate who'se sister lives here in Mobile...inland 30 miles. Her name is . She decided to ride out the hurricane in Long Beach, Mississippi, about 1.2 miles from the GOM, because she wanted to be there for the "excitement".
Now my workmate's wife and parents are traveling there to hopefully find her.
I heard an elderly woman walked for a solid 24 hours and made it to the French Quarter..where it is drier and there is food.
Perhaps they need to just "walk, swim, wade...out of New Orleans..don't know.
as for the looters and rapers....if the government or police don't catch them, they still won't get away with it.
The Creator is watching, and they WILL render an account.
The best thing to do is provide help, one way or another.
Criticizing this situation may make people give up. Hope is what they need...not despair. When they lose hope, is when they die.
|
Big Red Machine
Storm Tracker
Reged:
Posts: 223
Loc: Polk City, FL
|
|
I didn't intend to imply that food and water would prevent rapes. Food and water would prevent the dehydration and help the health effects. The rapes and murders were a reference to the Director's comments on the limited nature of the criminal activity. (I'm sorry I did not have the verbatim quote on the water, but he implied that there were very few people without water, and that is certainly not the case.)
Here is why I am upset:
http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/wetlands/hurricane_print.html
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/thebigone_1.html
http://hurricane.lsu.edu/_newsbriefs/hefmtg.html
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:2iF...trina&hl=en
This was supposedly our "A-1" priority for natural disaster planning. They did a mock of it last year and planned for it the year before!! This isn't 9-11 where it came as a complete surprise... we've had YEARS to plan... and the men and women at the top (from the Mayor on up) bungled it.
Anyways...I don't want to post anymore about the blame. We can always come back to it later. It may be too late to stop this discussion, but we really should get back to the actual disaster.
Edited by Big Red Machine (Thu Sep 01 2005 08:23 PM)
|
LisaMaria65
Verified CFHC User
Reged:
Posts: 22
Loc: Lafayette, La
|
|
This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard
--------------------
Lived through Betsy ('65), Camile ('69), Edith ('71), Carmen ('74), Danny ('85), Andrew ('92), Lili ('02), Rita ('05), Gustav ('08)....Who's next?
|
tpratch
Moderator
Reged:
Posts: 339
Loc: Maryland
|
|
Not being in their exact situation, I can't speak too eloquently, however...
The convention center is in an area without flooding. Why exactly are they needing to get rescued before people who are living on rooftops again? Surely there is one able-bodied person there who could walk to officials and bring assitance for those in need, but wow - this is pretty bad. Nobody has brought us water? Perhaps it's because they're actually taking care of folks with no easy means to get out of their situations?
The depth of human selflessness is eclipsed only by the depth of human selfishness.
Again, I'm not there and I realize that yes, there are thousands of tragic stories in NO, but I don't think that people who are able-bodied and not flooded are necessarily chief amongst them.
YMMV SPSFD
As for Bush being an idiot and to blame, I think you're a touch out of line. Our government is a bureaucracy - Bush put people in charge (FEMA/DoHS) of making things happen. The president is not given a wand to wave to make things happen. Next-day response to a lot of unknowns is somewhat unrealistic. Even in a country like ours, a relief effort this large needs to know what they're stepping in to and they need a plan.
As for a comparison, you're right. You can't compare NO to say, Gulfport. New Orleans still exists, even though it's flooded. Portions of Gulfport are just plain gone. Trying to compare LA to MS or AL is just ridiculous. All 3 states have massive areas of concern that need addressing. The media is just focusing on NO because it was their doomsday scenario, and people on rooftops make for better media than people with concrete slabs.
Sickening to be certain, but welcome to our society.
Edited by tpratch (Thu Sep 01 2005 08:27 PM)
|
bigpapi
Weather Watcher
Reged:
Posts: 31
Loc: Myrtle Beach, SC
|
|
This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard
|
Ryan
Storm Tracker
Reged:
Posts: 281
Loc: Long Island, NY / Stuart, FL
|
|
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb_latest/refresh/danger_atl_latestBW+gif/144711123_sm.gif
thats a lot of areas to watch, the invest 92L definatley has to be monitored more than Lee and 14.
--------------------
2006 Atlantic Season Summary:
Bad, But Not AS Bad.
Life's a Storm, Watch Your Back
|
emackl
Storm Tracker
Reged:
Posts: 205
Loc: Indianapolis
|
|
Ron, you still around? Please look at what's flaring up east of Fl and tell me it won't be anything to worry about. Everytime I look it still there. I'm thinking I may just not look anymore..LOL!
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
