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News Talkback >> 2005 News Talkbacks

typhoon_tip
Meteorologist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 576
Re: winds are the issue not the heat
      Thu Nov 17 2005 02:33 PM

Quote:

Typhoon - how about laymens terms, huh? What in the heck are you saying? Should the USA expect anymore tropical weather this season or are we in the clear till June??




Hi...
..You're never in the clear my friend... Some years, the odds are essentially 0 in January, other years....maybe not. But, you are never absolutely 0...

However, for the sake of discussion...I would say that we are going to have very slim chances of the U.S. being affected by a tropical cyclone again before the seasonal return, late next spring, while at the same time (and rather ironically) we will have above average chances of renogade systems developing after the planned December 1st termination date.

Positive departed SSTs working in conjunction with a very powerfully negative Quasi-Biennial Oscillation, means that conditions will be unusually fertile for the generation of tropical cyclones....(here's the catch!) at lower latitudes. The reason that is emphasized is because, not unlike every year, the planned winter time incursion of westerlies into the subtropical latitudes, to where they can subtend an influence to points farther S (in more intense scenarios..), is well underway; with one caveat: more intense than normal closer to the U.S. mainland. This latter intimation is because we have a Multi-Decadal Oscillation that favors severe winters underway - which is by no means an "always" scenario, but one that means we should be weary of any tendencies at all, to drive the +PNA along... This is because when the MDO is positive, there is a teleconnection to positive phases of the North Atlantic Oscillation..

Just so you are familiar with what these are:
North Atlantic Oscillation:
1) Positive Phase: +SD heights anywhere from N of Ireland to Davis Straights just W of Greenland, and associated +SD surface high pressure... This effectively blocks the cold from the polar Canadian districts from punching E into the N Atlantic, complimented by the fact that the jet stream in such conditions "buckles" in the "means" ("means" meaning, not all the time, but the average state of the main westerly core positioning) and sends these cold air masses, instead, S into the U.S. more frequently.
2) Negative Phase: -SD "........................." and associated -SD "............................", and the opposite means there after. This implies warm regimes for the contiguous U.S. if you are following me.
3) Neutral Phase: No discernable departure from tropospheric mass balance in the N. Atlantic Basin and adjacent areas; no discernable height bias either... Caries little influence either way on the weather in the contiguous and basically is a big boring waste of time.

Multi-Decadal Oscillation:
...About ever 20-30 years or so, the Atlantic Ocean decides to cool off and then heat back up again...by a 1 or 2C average across...pretty much the broad expanse of the ocean - of particularly current concern, N of the tropics/sub-tropics.. It's like our own ENSO in this hemisphere, but one that has a much longer periodicity, than that which takes place in the Equitorial Pacific. (Which by the way, since the ENSO signal is essentially neutral, we are not thinking a huge influence on the Pacific Jet, but that's a digression). Studies have shown that warm SSTs in various locations in the N Atlantic tends to correlate with the existence of blocking ridge tendencies, subsequently the positive phase of the NAO is accepted. If you look at the current SST charts along with the anomalies, you will see that the positive phase of the MDO is definitely present, having substantial warm departures from normal existing over the waters of the N Atlantic.

Since these indices/teleconnector existences, in the longer term, favor the positive phases of the NAO, it stands to reason there is a stronger than normal likelihood for higher amplitude flow. That is why the GFS going bonkers with a sub-polar vortex that looks like it belongs in that terrible movie "The Day After Tomorrow", over SE Canada. There is likely back-ground physics that are insisting a winter to remember over the continent of N America....

Point being, higher amplitude flows will tend to shunt activity away from the U.S. proper. That is what it means in your layman's terms, which really cut down the probability that a wayward tropical disturbance can find its way on board in a latter Novembers, particularly when you have amplified flow regimes Globally statistically supported to exist - therein we derive our confidences.

That doesn't mean it "can't" happen of course, and usually, that's when people die -s trangely enough... Also, it would seem reasonable to assume much of this has less ability to apply to S. Florida its self, which stick out there like a sore thumb at any time of the year.

Lastly, the reason this is interesting for the potential sub-tropical feature 1000 naut miles NNE of the Leewards is because if you understand the basics of atmospheric circulation, a high parked in the N Atlantic tends to drive a deep layer easterly flow, which tends to lower shear in that particular geography of the Atlantic... When you look at the IR imagery, you can see a near E Coast baroclinic zone lingering there...That is the shear axis...Anything E of there is "theoretically" in a favorable U/A arena...Anything along and W of that? Winter time and nadda...

Edited by typhoon_tip (Thu Nov 17 2005 02:37 PM)

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go HanKFranK Thu Nov 17 2005 02:33 PM
. * * Possible TD 28? Rich B   Thu Nov 17 2005 09:12 AM
. * * Re: Possible TD 28? ltpat228   Thu Nov 17 2005 09:18 AM
. * * Re: Possible TD 28? damejune2   Thu Nov 17 2005 11:29 AM
. * * winds are the issue not the heat LoisCane   Thu Nov 17 2005 11:35 AM
. * * Re: winds are the issue not the heat damejune2   Thu Nov 17 2005 01:44 PM
. * * Re: winds are the issue not the heat typhoon_tip   Thu Nov 17 2005 12:51 PM
. * * Re: winds are the issue not the heat damejune2   Thu Nov 17 2005 01:48 PM
. * * Re: winds are the issue not the heat typhoon_tip   Thu Nov 17 2005 02:33 PM
. * * Re: winds are the issue not the heat dave foster   Thu Nov 17 2005 02:12 PM
. * * Recon & Wilma Brad in Miami   Thu Nov 17 2005 02:43 PM
. * * Re: Recon & Wilma Brad in Miami   Thu Nov 17 2005 02:46 PM
. * * Re: Recon & Wilma doug   Thu Nov 17 2005 04:37 PM
. * * Re: Recon & Wilma Margie   Thu Nov 17 2005 03:49 PM
. * * Re: Recon & Wilma doug   Thu Nov 17 2005 04:42 PM
. * * nothing yet, but it ain't over HanKFranK   Fri Nov 18 2005 12:17 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Hootowl   Fri Nov 18 2005 07:05 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over HURRICANELONNY   Fri Nov 18 2005 08:13 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Lysis   Fri Nov 18 2005 09:36 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Margie   Fri Nov 18 2005 11:58 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Fletch   Fri Nov 18 2005 12:53 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Brad in Miami   Fri Nov 18 2005 01:01 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Margie   Fri Nov 18 2005 12:57 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Thunderbird12   Fri Nov 18 2005 02:08 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Lee-Delray   Fri Nov 18 2005 02:29 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over doug   Fri Nov 18 2005 02:47 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Lee-Delray   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:06 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Storm Hunter   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:15 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over DJINFLA   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:14 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over scottsvb   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:18 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over DJINFLA   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:22 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Lee-Delray   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:30 PM
. * * Weather Report WXMAN RICHIE   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:40 PM
. * * Re: Weather Report Lee-Delray   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:42 PM
. * * Re: GAMMA IS BORN Tropics Guy   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:44 PM
. * * Re: Weather Report Storm Hunter   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:43 PM
. * * Re: Weather Report Clark   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:46 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Thunderbird12   Fri Nov 18 2005 03:16 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Lee-Delray   Fri Nov 18 2005 12:18 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Lysis   Fri Nov 18 2005 12:30 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Ron Basso   Fri Nov 18 2005 12:28 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Margie   Fri Nov 18 2005 12:47 PM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Lee-Delray   Fri Nov 18 2005 10:10 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Thunderbird12   Fri Nov 18 2005 11:06 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over lawgator   Fri Nov 18 2005 10:52 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over LoisCane   Fri Nov 18 2005 11:16 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over damejune2   Fri Nov 18 2005 11:33 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over jusforsean   Fri Nov 18 2005 11:01 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over HanKFranK   Fri Nov 18 2005 11:00 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over saluki   Fri Nov 18 2005 09:19 AM
. * * Re: nothing yet, but it ain't over Margie   Fri Nov 18 2005 09:32 AM
. * * Special Tropical Disturbance Statement Cycloneye11   Fri Nov 18 2005 09:26 AM
. * * NHC STDS 11/18 090 Mike   Fri Nov 18 2005 09:25 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go SMOKE   Tue Nov 15 2005 06:29 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Tropics Guy   Tue Nov 15 2005 11:29 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Steve H1   Tue Nov 15 2005 12:10 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Rich B   Tue Nov 15 2005 12:16 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Margie   Tue Nov 15 2005 01:04 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Rabbit   Tue Nov 15 2005 03:26 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go damejune2   Tue Nov 15 2005 04:25 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Lee-Delray   Tue Nov 15 2005 04:40 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Lysis   Tue Nov 15 2005 05:21 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Lee-Delray   Tue Nov 15 2005 05:31 PM
. * * things going crazy HanKFranK   Tue Nov 15 2005 06:56 PM
. * * Re: things going crazy Toto   Tue Nov 15 2005 10:39 PM
. * * Re: things going crazy HanKFranK   Wed Nov 16 2005 01:47 AM
. * * TD27 demise?? danielwAdministrator   Wed Nov 16 2005 05:39 AM
. * * Re: TD27 demise?? Thunderbird12   Wed Nov 16 2005 10:01 AM
. * * Re: TD27 demise?? Steve H1   Wed Nov 16 2005 10:14 AM
. * * recon timetable HanKFranK   Wed Nov 16 2005 10:30 AM
. * * Re: recon timetable Steve H1   Wed Nov 16 2005 12:37 PM
. * * Re: recon timetable ltpat228   Wed Nov 16 2005 05:56 PM
. * * alrighty then HanKFranK   Thu Nov 17 2005 12:43 AM
. * * Re: alrighty then danielwAdministrator   Thu Nov 17 2005 03:02 AM
. * * Re: alrighty then UKCloudgazer   Thu Nov 17 2005 05:40 AM
. * * Re: alrighty then Hugh   Thu Nov 17 2005 06:54 AM
. * * Could get wet ina few days... Beach   Thu Nov 17 2005 08:02 AM
. * * Re: things going crazy ltpat228   Tue Nov 15 2005 08:08 PM
. * * Re: things going crazy Lee-Delray   Tue Nov 15 2005 08:25 PM
. * * Re: things going crazy HanKFranK   Tue Nov 15 2005 09:30 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go saluki   Sun Nov 13 2005 11:53 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Ed DunhamAdministrator   Mon Nov 14 2005 12:31 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Ed DunhamAdministrator   Mon Nov 14 2005 11:34 AM
. * * UK Met accuracy LoisCane   Mon Nov 14 2005 02:01 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Lee-Delray   Mon Nov 14 2005 12:29 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go scottsvb   Mon Nov 14 2005 12:36 PM
. * * uk met pulls gamma north? LoisCane   Mon Nov 14 2005 02:00 PM
. * * Re: uk met pulls gamma north? Lee-Delray   Mon Nov 14 2005 02:03 PM
. * * Re: uk met pulls gamma north? Lee-Delray   Mon Nov 14 2005 05:37 PM
. * * Re: uk met pulls gamma north? HomesteadGirl   Mon Nov 14 2005 06:31 PM
. * * Re: uk met pulls gamma north? CoalCracker   Mon Nov 14 2005 07:26 PM
. * * Re: uk met pulls gamma north? *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard* Lee-Delray   Mon Nov 14 2005 08:25 PM
. * * Re: uk met pulls gamma north? Random Chaos   Mon Nov 14 2005 10:35 PM
. * * take HanKFranK   Mon Nov 14 2005 11:49 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Lee-Delray   Mon Nov 14 2005 12:44 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go CoalCracker   Mon Nov 14 2005 01:34 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Clark   Mon Nov 14 2005 01:23 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go UKCloudgazer   Mon Nov 14 2005 03:56 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go lawgator   Mon Nov 14 2005 10:14 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go lawgator   Mon Nov 14 2005 11:03 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Margie   Mon Nov 14 2005 11:19 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Random Chaos   Mon Nov 14 2005 07:36 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go damejune2   Mon Nov 14 2005 09:09 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Lee-Delray   Mon Nov 14 2005 09:19 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Lee-Delray   Mon Nov 14 2005 09:24 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go damejune2   Mon Nov 14 2005 09:32 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Lee-Delray   Mon Nov 14 2005 09:38 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go Ron Basso   Mon Nov 14 2005 10:10 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go mojorox   Mon Nov 14 2005 02:30 AM
. * * Here we go...again danielwAdministrator   Mon Nov 14 2005 12:05 AM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go CoalCracker   Sun Nov 13 2005 11:47 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go LoisCane   Sun Nov 13 2005 11:39 PM
. * * Re: TD 27 Active in the SE Caribbean--here we go lunkerhunter   Sun Nov 13 2005 11:25 PM

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