Yeah Joe's OK, but did you see his post today...it says a lot of nothing. Alright so I said I'd pull the pin, it gets the chatter started. And Shawn the track and intensity of the low is still up in the air, but I agree with Gary that something will develop and a pretty deep low at that. Let see where the cutoff sets up, and go from there. The easern GOM isn't out of the question by any means....I want to see the EC tonight to see where/if it puts it. Pretty good hype for something that isn't there yet, but I wouldn't think all the models are wrong. HPC says the AVN is out of bed....too far east with the current pattern, but says the UKMET is too far west, and they take a compromise position. From our experience it probably won't go down the middle of the solutions. This should be fun to watch. If it doesn't develop I'll go into hibernation until August...LOL> Jeers!! Steve H.