Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Fri Aug 13 2010 07:48 PM
Watching Wave 95L for Next Week

8 AM EDT 20 August 2010
The first sign of activity for next week is the East Atlantic system, designated 95L this morning.

This system is likely to develop slowly at first, but is fairly likely to develop. But not until early next week (Monday or Tuesday).

Once it does develop, odds highly favor it becoming a hurricane that goes out to sea well before the islands of the Caribbean.


{{StormLinks|95L|95|6|2010|1|95L}}

6 PM EDT 19 August 2010
Continued slowness throughout the Atlantic basin, with two areas with a slight development chance.

The first area, in the West Caribbean is running out of time to develop and likely will just impact central America with rainfall, and another area in the far west Atlantic that may develop next week if it persists, but even if it does odds are it would stay out to sea.

There may be other activity next week to watch, but nothing this week.

7:45 AM EDT 18 August 2010
The area in the Caribbean likely won't develop and will just be a rainmaker, and the rest of the basin is fairly quiet, and likely to remain so most of this week.


7:45 AM EDT 17 August 2010
The remnants of Tropical Depression five have moved back onshore eliminating the chances for development it had, This leaves the Atlantic without any pending areas to track. Which for this time in August is pretty rare. One wave in the east Atlantic has fizzled and likely will not develop, another may later.

There is also an area in the East Caribbean that may be worth watching. Convection has increased as the wave interacts with an upper level low in the central Caribbean.

In short, not much happening in the next few days. Late this week into next week may get busy, however.

6:45 AM EDT 16 August 2010

The system formerly known as tropical depression 5 has a chance to reform as early as this afternoon, but will likely only bring more rainfall to the area. Most of the rain is currently offshore and south of the center of the storm, which right now is just south of Panama City Beach in the Florida panhandle.



The system is forecast to loop over the gulf and make landfall again somewhere near the Louisiana/Mississippi border likely Thursday.

In the meantime the system has a chance to become a Tropical Storm and cause minor surge and plenty of rainfall. For most areas of the gulf it will be a non-event.

Beyond that, it is quiet in the Atlantic, and the next hint of development may be in the Eastern Atlantic late this week.

{{NorthGulfRadar}}
{{StormLinks|Ex-TD#5|05|5|2010|1|Ex-TD#5}}

7 AM 15 August 2010
It's mid August, and with a mostly quiet Atlantic there is a system that has hung around and is likely to move back over water, the former Tropical Depression #5 area.

The system is currently near Montgomery, Alabama, the area is expected to drift southward over the Florida Panhandle and re-emerge into the Gulf of Mexico overnight tonight, there it has a brief opportunity to regain strength and become a tropical depression or storm again. Conditions are actually more favorable once it gets back into the gulf than when TD#5 originally formed.

Looping tropical systems are notoriously hard to predict, but the best guess is another landfall early Wednesday near Louisiana as a tropical storm or depression.

Overall though, Odds are that it just will continue to bring rain, as the biggest issue with it developing is likely to be not enough time over water.


Original Update
The remnants of former TD5 are now over eastern Louisiana, southern Mississippi and southern Alabama. NRL position estimate at 13/18Z was 31.4N 88.2W. Some models poke it back out over the northern Gulf, but as weak as this system has become, I don’t think that it would be of much consequence since some models still maintain a mid-level low over the Florida panhandle and Alabama. Area is worth watching since heavy rain potential still exists in Alabama. Added: At 14/00Z the center position estimate was 32.2N 87.0W - the system has been moving to the northeast on Friday - away from the coast.

A broad area of lower pressure north of Panama and east of Nicaragua has some cyclonic curvature. The area is centered near 13.5N 79W and has been stationary. Convection remains on the outer limits of the system. The Atlantic side of Panama has no windshear, but the Pacific side is under moderate easterly shear. There is a slight chance for some slow development in this area.

A non-tropical system east of the Carolinas is developed into a stronger system by many of the longer range models and slowly transitioned into a more tropical system as it heads off to the northeast. Probability for tropical cyclone development is still low, but it has some potential and worth keeping an eye on.

A well developed tropical wave will exit the west African coast at about 18N in a couple of days – this wave has remained intact and large and looked well developed when it was at 17E quite a few days ago. Another SAL outbreak started yesterday and now extends south to the Cape Verde Islands, so like others before it, this new wave will have dry air ahead of it to contend with. But this one seems to have enough structure to have a better chance for survival and could become a tropical system in about a week.

Sat24 West Africa Loop

Just some areas to watch - nothing is expected to develop in the next few days.
ED


MichaelA
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Aug 13 2010 08:13 PM
Re: Wait and Watch or Vice Versa

The wave approaching the African coast does look strong. We'll see if it survives after emerging into the Atlantic, though. Looks like there are two more waves traversing the African continent behind it, but they don't appear to be quite as strong. The area in the Caribbean looks a little less organized now than it did earlier today, but certainly bears watching while the area on the Pacific side has succumbed to the shear over it today. The Caribbean area does have a lot of moisture to work with and fairly good UL divergence. That's a heck of a trough off the East coast with lots of shear, so betting nothing develops there. The trough moving across the central US should help kick the remains of TD5 to the NE and E in the next few days.

berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Aug 13 2010 08:45 PM
Attachment
TD5 Remnants - Redevelopment in GOM?

All kidding aside; time to take TD5 Remnants more serious....Marine Weather Discussion and models have the system returning to the GOM next week and are now hinting at the possibility of redevelopment with a track once again to the west across the northern portion of the GOM. Models are all over the place in regards to how strong the remnants are likely to become; GFS being much, much stronger at 96 hours and the ECMWF having the system remaining weak.

Stu Ostro made a pretty darn good case for the remnants of TD5 in fact being a depression (on his Facebook page) as it stalled just SE of LA and S of MS with radar having convective bands almost completely wrapping around the low level center Thursday morning.

Depending on how far the system re-emerges into the GOM will go a long way determining if the models verify and to what degree the system can be classified a depression or storm next week.



WesnWylie
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:37 PM
Re: TD5 Remnants - Redevelopment in GOM?

The remnants of TD 5 are flaring up a lot over the inland this afternoon. The center appears to be along the south-central border of Mississippi and Alabama. The latest model runs are not showing this system getting as strong in the gulf as they were with the previous run or two. I guess we'll see what it does during the early to mid part of next week. BTW, Joe Bastardi has a good commentary regarding the remnants of TD 5 on Accuweather.com.

MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Sat Aug 14 2010 12:00 PM
Re: Wait and Watch or Vice Versa

It's going to be a quiet weekend, but later in the week it looks like there may be more to track, and the pattern is starting to change, late August into September will likely be pretty busy.

berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Sat Aug 14 2010 12:28 PM
Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

To borrow a few lines from MythBusters - Everybody take a look at the 14/00Z global models package and ask yourself - Busted or Plausible? I think the GFS is a bit overdone, but the ECMWF which has been very, very good this season along with every model I looked at put this low back in GOM moving it south starting tomorrow. This morning it looks very good on satellite imagery despite appearing a bit elongated. It even has some banding.

MichaelA
(Weather Analyst)
Sat Aug 14 2010 03:07 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

It certainly looks like the remains of TD5 are doing a loop over Alabama this morning moving generally toward the SE. Persistent little bugger, isn't it? The GFS does appear to be a bit over-aggressive.

Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Sat Aug 14 2010 03:27 PM
Re: Wait and Watch or Vice Versa

The latest SAL outbreak that started a couple of days ago is turning out to be rather significant and it could shut off the eastern Atlantic for awhile.

UW SSEC SAL Loop

Here is a link where you can watch the easterly waves as they approach the west coast of Africa:

Sat24 West African Satellite Loop

Cheers,
ED


MichaelA
(Weather Analyst)
Sat Aug 14 2010 03:58 PM
Re: Wait and Watch or Vice Versa

I've been watching that SAL outbreak. It's also visible on the vis sat pics as well. That's a fairly strong SAL air mass and I'm wondering how those African waves will fare once they enter the Atlantic.

berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Sun Aug 15 2010 06:01 AM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

NHC has a bullseye over Alabama and 20% chances. Models continue to suggest re-development is plausible.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sun Aug 15 2010 07:46 AM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Since it's a once in a year occasion that a TD forms over the Southeast US. I'm going to post the NHC graphic. Yes, a 20% chance of tropical development from an overland system.
And while I'm posting things that are strange. NHC did run the basic tropical models on the remnants of TD5. It generated one 6 or 12 hour period with 15 kt winds and the models dissipated XTD 5.

I don't think it's going to go away that easy. Kind of in a cutoff low situation. Canadian model takes it well offshore and down to 1005 mb. Which probably isn't much lower than it is right now.



danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sun Aug 15 2010 08:08 AM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Very good presentation/ explanation of what X TD 5 is doing and is forecast to do. Might belong in the forecast lounge, but system is somewhat current.

MARINE WEATHER DISCUSSION NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL 350 AM EDT SUN AUG 15 2010

(excerpt~danielw)

...THE RIDGE WILL WEAKEN NEXT 30 HOURS AS GLOBAL MODELS CONTINUE TO
SHIFT LOW PRES INTO THE NE GULF COASTS MON MORNING THEN DRIFT IT
W AND ACROSS SE LOUISIANA THROUGH TUE EVENING BEFORE TURNING NW
AND COMPLETELY INLAND ACROSS SW LA TUE NIGHT-WED MORNING. GFS
CONTINUES TO BE VERY AGGRESSIVE WITH THIS LOW AND DEEPENS IT MON
NIGHT INTO TUE TO TROPICAL STORM STRENGTH. CANADIAN IS SOMEWHAT
SIMILAR AND A BIT FARTHER S IN TRAJECTORY WHILE REMAINDER OF
MODELS HAVE SIMILAR MOTION BUT DO NOT SHOW NEAR THE
STRENGTHENING. THIS LOW IS PERSISTING UNDERNEATH AN UPPER LEVEL
HIGH AND WILL MOVE SW THEN W WITHIN THE INNER PERIPHERY OF THIS
UPPER ANTICYCLONE AS IT MOVES OVER WATER. WE ARE MONITORING THIS
SYSTEM DURING ITS EVOLUTION NEXT 48 HOURS...BUT STILL REMAIN ON
THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE ATTM UNTIL SOME DEFINITIVE IMPROVED
STRUCTURE IS EVIDENT IN STLT OR RADAR. WILL CONTINUE TO GO WITH
15-20 KT WINDS ON S AND SE QUADS OF THIS LOW AS IT MOVES ACROSS
THE N CENTRAL GULF MON THROUGH TUE...

http://weather.cod.edu/kamala/TPC/latest.agxx40.KNHC.html


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 02:22 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water....

Looking at the satellite loops, the convection is growing around the remnants of TD 5 at an alarming rate very near to the coast. The LLC is still over land, but it's headed for the northeast Gulf, and while there's no convection near the LLC right now, the actual spin looks intact. It would not surprise me for it to be bumped up to code orange at 2pm. Heck, it looks better right now - with the LLC over land! - than it did for the last 12-24 hours when it was over the eastern Gulf before the recon couldn't locate a LLC. I almost got caught in the rain yesterday from this system - it was just light sprinkles when I was out and about but for a brief period of time there was a heavy downpour.

Regardless of whether the NHC decides to re-pull the trigger and call this thing TD 5 again, it's going to be a wet week along the Gulf coast.


WesnWylie
(Weather Guru)
Sun Aug 15 2010 03:19 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

I have a feeling we will have a tropical depression to track by sometime tomorrow. I think this is the type of system that can catch a lot of people off guard by "spinning up" quickly. I'll definitely be watching it since if its track were to shift just a little west my area could be affected by it.

Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 03:27 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Quote:

I have a feeling we will have a tropical depression to track by sometime tomorrow. I think this is the type of system that can catch a lot of people off guard by "spinning up" quickly. I'll definitely be watching it since if its track were to shift just a little west my area could be affected by it.




It's not supposed to get south enough to make it to Texas, I don't think.

Looking at the ball of convection south of Mobile, if the LLC were to reform (which wouldn't be out of the ordinary I don't think), we could have a depression or even a storm VERY quickly. Right now the LLC is over land, so the NHC won't pull the trigger even if there are reports of 40mph winds offshore, I don't think... but... you never know.


WesnWylie
(Weather Guru)
Sun Aug 15 2010 03:39 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

When the LLC gets into the GOM which will it be labeled prior to being a tropical depression again?

1.As the old wave it was before (94L)
2.A new wave (95L)
3.The Remnants of TD 5, so 05L

Just curious.



orlandoweather
(Registered User)
Sun Aug 15 2010 03:47 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Should be TD5 should be a strong tropical storm not so sure about a hurricane though

Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 04:39 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Quote:

When the LLC gets into the GOM which will it be labeled prior to being a tropical depression again?
1.As the old wave it was before (94L)
2.A new wave (95L)
3.The Remnants of TD 5, so 05L
Just curious.





My gut feeling, based upon satellite presentation, is that it will immediately be re-classifed as TD Five - possibly even before the LLC gets over the GOM. It's hard to pinpoint, but I think the LLC is just southwest of the AL/GA/FL tri-border, and moving south. Convection near that locaton is almost non-existent, but it's very impressive southwest of there in the Gulf. I've seen systems - including this one - with less convection call a tropical depression before.

There is no sound reasoning to call it 95L, since it is the exact same system that became TD 5.


mwillis
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sun Aug 15 2010 05:22 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Does anyonne know if this looks like a new convestion center forming off gulf coast? Not sure if its just thunderstorm related or low pressure related. look at the right side of the radar, do u see the"circle" of thunderstorms?


http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=LIX&product=NCR&overlay=11101111&loop=yes


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 05:42 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Quote:

Does anyonne know if this looks like a new convestion center forming off gulf coast? Not sure if its just thunderstorm related or low pressure related. look at the right side of the radar, do u see the"circle" of thunderstorms?


http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=LIX&product=NCR&overlay=11101111&loop=yes




Too far west to be a LLC forming - yet. It does show a very high cloudtop on the AVN loop at that spot, though.


DestinFisherman
(Registered User)
Sun Aug 15 2010 05:56 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

NHC just upped it to orange with a 30% chance of developing. we will most likely see that percentage go up throughout the remainder of the day.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sun Aug 15 2010 06:31 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

I haven't looked at the wind profiles from the radar sites yet. But what you guys are describing could be something like a tornado.
Upper circulation center in one location and lower circulation center in another location.

I see the Hot towers in the GOM south of Dauphin Island,AL and the visible sats indicate a circulation just north of Hugh. One other note is in the loops of XTD 5.
Have you noticed the loops are spinning clockwise... anticyclonic. Meaning high pressure overhead.

High over a low is a near perfect setup for convective development.

Now to see if I can locate the centers.....


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 06:35 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Quote:

I haven't looked at the wind profiles from the radar sites yet. But what you guys are describing could be something like a tornado.
Upper circulation center in one location and lower circulation center in another location.
I see the Hot towers in the GOM south of Dauphin Island,AL and the visible sats indicate a circulation just north of Hugh. One other note is in the loops of XTD 5.
Have you noticed the loops are spinning clockwise... anticyclonic. Meaning high pressure overhead.
High over a low is a near perfect setup for convective development.
Now to see if I can locate the centers.....




It's actually a bit NE of me, I think.
Is there any historical information of situations where this has happened before? A TD rolling back into the Gulf?


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sun Aug 15 2010 07:10 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Surface analysis has the center of circulation in extreme SW Georgia... Or NE of you.

Buoy 12 nm south of Orange Beach,AL is reporting a 2.2mb drop in pressure over the last 3 hours.
Other buoys are reporting less than 0.9mb over 3 hours.

15/1900z 42012 30.1N -87.6W Temperature 25.9 Dew Point 25.0 Wind from 170degrees at 25kts Gusting to 31kts Peak wind from 160degrees at 31kts Pressure 1013.4mb Pressure Tendancy -2.2mb SST 30.1 Wave height 1.5m Wave period 6seconds 42012

15/19 42012 30.1 -87.6 25.9 25.0 170 25 G 31 160 31 1013.4 -2.2 30.1 1.5 6 42012

http://coolwx.com/cgi-bin/findbuoy.cgi?id=42012

http://coolwx.com

edit:
AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TALLAHASSEE FL
227 PM EDT SUN AUG 15 2010

.SHORT TERM (TONIGHT-TUESDAY NIGHT)...
THE ONE SIGNIFICANT CHANGE OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF MODELS RUNS IS
THAT THE LOW-LEVEL CIRCULATION (REMNANTS OF TD5) IS NOW PROGGED TO
PUSH FURTHER SOUTH OUT OVER THE PANHANDLE WATERS BEFORE HEADING
WEST ACROSS THE NORTHERN GULF OF MEXICO OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF
DAYS. THIS HAS LEAD TO A SLIGHT INCREASE IN PROBABILITIES FOR
TROPICAL DEVELOPMENT MONDAY THROUGH TUESDAY. THE NATIONAL
HURRICANE CENTER HAS UPGRADED THIS TO A 30 PERCENT CHANCE FOR
TROPICAL DEVELOPMENT THROUGH THIS TIME. THE LATEST SURFACE
ANALYSIS SHOWED THE CENTER OF THE WEAK CIRCULATION OVER OUR AREA
AROUND THE SOUTHERN GA/AL STATE LINE AND A SURFACE TROUGH
EXTENDING SOUTHWEST ACROSS THE PANHANDLE AND THE NORTHERN GULF
WATERS.
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/TAE/AFDTAE


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 08:22 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Between Marianna, Fl to Donalsonville, Ga..... appears to be moving in a ssw direction. President was in PCB the last 24hrs and now has left just in time! When it rains here, its pouring!

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/SAT_GULF/anim16vis.html


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 08:44 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

It looks like there is a SMALL amount of convection building near the LLC now. In my judgement, the remnants of TD 5 are currently more organized than TD 5 was over the final 12 hours of its first lifetime.
The NHC is in a bit of a box I think, in terms of when to re-initiate advisories.


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 08:53 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

18Z data had

TROPICAL CYCLONE GUIDANCE MESSAGE
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
1750 UTC SUN AUG 15 2010

DISCLAIMER...NUMERICAL MODELS ARE SUBJECT TO LARGE ERRORS.
PLEASE REFER TO NHC OFFICIAL FORECASTS FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE
AND SUBTROPICAL CYCLONE INFORMATION.

ATLANTIC OBJECTIVE AIDS FOR

DISTURBANCE FIVE (AL052010) 20100815 1800 UTC
..........


...INITIAL CONDITIONS...
LATCUR = 31.3N LONCUR = 84.9W DIRCUR = 180DEG SPDCUR = 5KT
LATM12 = 32.3N LONM12 = 85.1W DIRM12 = 157DEG SPDM12 = 4KT
LATM24 = 33.0N LONM24 = 85.5W
WNDCUR = 20KT RMAXWD = 90NM WNDM12 = 20KT
CENPRS = 1013MB OUTPRS = 1015MB OUTRAD = 120NM SDEPTH = S
RD34NE = 0NM RD34SE = 0NM RD34SW = 0NM RD34NW = 0NM



those interested... here's today HRD discussion from 2010 IFEX Field Program Director...
http://noaahrd.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/forecast-and-mission-science-discussion-aug-15-2010/


DestinFisherman
(Registered User)
Sun Aug 15 2010 09:58 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Buoy DPIA1 at Daulphin Island station reporting a SE wind of 34 kts gusting to 42kts.
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=dpia1


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 10:02 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Well, over the last several hours, Five has continued to blow up in terms of convection... but... it doesn't appear to be all that organized. Most of the deep convection - all of it, in fact - is west of the AL/FL state line just about, stretching into Mississippi and Louisiana (over land), and south into the GOM. The apparent COC is due north of Panama City by my estimation. Given the displacement of the convection... I'm going to have to change my line of thinking, and say that it's going to take awhile to get organized enough to be a TD. Rotation is very evident, but I'm not sure it exists at the surface currently.

Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 10:17 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - Are the Models Wrong?

Quote:

Buoy DPIA1 at Daulphin Island station reporting a SE wind of 34 kts gusting to 42kts.
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=dpia1




Well, so much for it being re-classified as TD Five, then, I guess... if it's already got winds of 34kts, it'll be directly named... if the NHC deems it to be a tropical cyclone.


Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Sun Aug 15 2010 10:36 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5

Your first thought is still good. A couple of hours ago Pensacola NAS had gusts to 35mph out of the south - associated with a thunderstorm. Dauphin Island is southwest (maybe west southwest) of the center so a southeast wind direction is something that was generated by the convection in the area. The movement of the system to the southwest has picked up a little, but at 8PM EDT it will still be over land. The 18Z BAM run really keeps the center close to the coast.
ED


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 10:52 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5

Quote:

Your first thought is still good. A couple of hours ago Pensacola NAS had gusts to 35mph out of the south - associated with a thunderstorm. Dauphin Island is southwest (maybe west southwest) of the center so a southeast wind direction is something that was generated by the convection in the area. The movement of the system to the southwest has picked up a little, but at 8PM EDT it will still be over land. The 18Z BAM run really keeps the center close to the coast.
ED




Is the fact that it's still going to be over land going to be an issue, though? It is looking more and more like a tropical storm, irregardless of the fact that the LLC is still over land.


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sun Aug 15 2010 11:13 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5

I'm 65 miles inland and the NW Quadrant has been generating severe thunderstorms for the last hour here. Possibly a combination of convective forcing. But the speed at which they are moving tells me that there is a great deal of spin left in this system.

NHC is apparently suspicious also.

WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE FLIGHTS
CARCAH, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER, MIAMI, FL.
1130 AM EDT SUN 15 AUGUST 2010
SUBJECT: TROPICAL CYCLONE PLAN OF THE DAY (TCPOD)
VALID 16/1100Z TO 17/1100Z AUGUST 2010
TCPOD NUMBER.....10-076

I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. SUSPECT AREA GULF OF MEXICO - REMNENTS OF TD 05
FLIGHT ONE -- TEAL 70
A. 16/1800Z
B. AFXXX 0405A INVEST
C. 16/1700Z
D. 29.5N 86.0W
E. 16/1700-2200Z
F. SFC TO 10,000 FT
FLIGHT TWO -- TEAL 71
A. 17/0600Z- 1200Z
B. AFXXX 0505A CYCLONE
C. 17/0500Z
D. 29.5N 87.5W
E. 17/0500-1200Z
F. SFC TO 15,000 FT

2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY: CONTINUE 6 HRLY FIXES
IF SYSTEM DEVELOPS.

At least two of the RECON planes flew to Texas today.
Coincidence?


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sun Aug 15 2010 11:46 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5

50% chance now, borderline code red.... should be code red at 2am... with all of the convection well west of the LLC, it's going to be interesting to see if the LLC redevelops near the convection. If so... bad news for Louisiana!

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sun Aug 15 2010 11:58 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5

I'm still looking at the mid and upper level data. Satellite imagery indicates there should be a center aloft near Mobile. Looking at the size of the anticyclone above the GOM just east of New Orleans. Center should be there somewhere. Radius of the circle... or in this case radius of the half-circle.

Surface data still points to a surface center near the AL/ GA/ FL border. Give or take a few miles.


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Aug 16 2010 12:43 AM
Re: Remnants of TD5

Quote:

I'm still looking at the mid and upper level data. Satellite imagery indicates there should be a center aloft near Mobile. Looking at the size of the anticyclone above the GOM just east of New Orleans. Center should be there somewhere. Radius of the circle... or in this case radius of the half-circle.

Surface data still points to a surface center near the AL/ GA/ FL border. Give or take a few miles.




Yeah, and there is NO organized convection near the AL/GA/FL border. All of the major convection - and it's major alright- is in Mississippi, moving rapidly west now. Some is still in the Gulf but most is over land now.
It's almost as if it has already made the turn, and left the low level circulation behind?


WesnWylie
(Weather Guru)
Mon Aug 16 2010 12:53 AM
Re: Remnants of TD5

If it has indeed left the old circulation behind and formed a center near the new convection wouldn't this make Texas and Louisiana at a worst spot in terms of the effects felt by 05L? Reason being, it would be centered more underneath the high which would do two things:

1.Make a more favorable environment for intensification
2.Push the disturbance farther west.


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Aug 16 2010 12:56 AM
Re: Remnants of TD5

Quote:

If it has indeed left the old circulation behind and formed a center near Mobile, AL, wouldn't this make Texas and Louisiana at a worst spot in terms of the effects felt by 05L? Reason being, it would be centered more underneath the high which would do two things:

1.Make a more favorable environment for intensification
2.Push the disturbance farther west.




Since that's where most of the convection is, that makes sense, but I doubt that the LLC is going to reform, really.

Update: Radar now shows LLC may indeed be reforming... in the Gulf... but not near Mobile. A LLC appears to have formed or be forming, just southwest of the Red Bay radar, just off the coast of Panama City. No indication of deep convection in the location on satellitte, but the LLC appears to have formed there over the last hour so the satellite hasn't picked it up yet, maybe? Or it could be a tornado.


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Mon Aug 16 2010 03:02 AM
Re: Remnants of TD5

The Red Bay/ Eglin FL radar is indicating the winds aloft are beginning to increase.
A little over one hour ago you would have to look to 10,000 ft to see plus 30 knot winds. They are now being indicated at 5,000 feet.



The Mx=40 in the bottom right hand corner is the current max wind during the scan in the Full Profile.40kts appears to be at 9,000 ft


berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Mon Aug 16 2010 03:56 AM
Remnant TD5 Analysis - Aug 16/04Z

Good evening or a very early good morning! The remnants of TD5 are now re-emerging over the GOM near Applachacola (AQQ), FL. Surface and marine (buoy) observations reveal the system at 03Z just inland near AQQ. Movement is SSW at about 10 mph at this typing. There is a convective complex west of the center with very small vortices embedded. I cannot dismiss the possibility this may be a new center or 2nd center in the broader circulation.

Looking at 850 millibars this evening at 16/00Z; the vorticity center was located just to the north over Tallahassee (TAE), FL. I could find no vorticity or mid-level circulation at 500 millibars.. A pair of 595 decameter ridge height centers were located over AR/MS/LA and TN/NC/GA. The 500 millibar barotropic chart with temperature/depression plots revealed an upper level low - a 586 height center near 24.5N 92.0W however I could not find this low on water vaport satellite.

There is good outflow from all convective activity rotating anti-clock extending south, south-west and west. Wind Shear analysis reveals 20 knot isotachs from 60 NM offshore and 30 knot isotachs from 120 NM offshore. The depression is not progged to venture too offshore however I do believe the system will steer a bit further south than previously forecasted given the upper highs over the South Central and SE USA but not very much more than progged.

Looking at VAD winds out of Mobile, AL reveal Northwest winds at 1000' veering to 010 degrees at 15 knots at 2000', 040 at 20 knots at 3000' and 040 at 30 knots at 4000'.

Winds at Eglin AFB, FL reveal winds of 360 at 10 knots at 1000', 020 at 15 knots at 2000', 030 at 15 knots at 3000' and 030 at 20 knots at 4000' - verifying the center and circulation aloft is east of both locations at this typing.

Turning to the global models tonight the GFS continues to forecast the system as a possible tropical storm upon landfall in SE LA and S LA; the other models; at minimum a depression. The models have done a very, very good job at handling the remains of TD5 though there has been some convective feedback with the GFS and has this system too strong. General consensus is believe re-development into a "real" TD is plausible and NHC now has projected redevelopment at 50 percent.

Y'all have a wonderful evening/morning...take care all; it's going to be a really interesting Monday!!!


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Mon Aug 16 2010 04:28 AM
Re: Remnant TD5 Analysis - Aug 16/04Z

Latest Track models are out. Range of early cycle models is between the MS/ AL Border and Grand Isle,LA.

These will change every 6 hours, but it will give an idea of the possible direction of the system.
Interesting is the SHIPS model. It actually intensifies the storm north of New Orleans.
But then we are talking about TD 5. It's worse than the energizer bunny.


berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Mon Aug 16 2010 09:30 AM
Re: Remnant TD5 Analysis - Aug 16/0930Z

At 5:30 am ET Eglin AFB, FL radar has the surface low stationary about 75 to 90 miles south and about 60 miles offshore. Pressures are falling along the coast of FL and showers are beginning to consolidate around the CoC. Bouy platfroms 42039 and 42040 confirm surface trough axis extending southwest and west from CoC back to LA.

Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Aug 16 2010 12:09 PM
Re: Remnant TD5 Analysis - Aug 16/04Z

Quote:

Latest Track models are out. Range of early cycle models is between the MS/ AL Border and Grand Isle,LA.

These will change every 6 hours, but it will give an idea of the possible direction of the system.
Interesting is the SHIPS model. It actually intensifies the storm north of New Orleans.
But then we are talking about TD 5. It's worse than the energizer bunny.




Thanks for the laugh, Danny. I REALLY needed a laugh this morning (woke up sick in the middle of the night).

I still believe the NHC is under-estimating the probability of re-development, personally. Looking at the early morning satelllite loop, I would put it at 80%. A LLC is clearly evident on Eglin radar. Convection is building around the LLC, as shown on satellite loops. Is it the most organized storm ever? No... but, it is, in my opinion, more organized than it was six hours before the previous final advisory was written. In my judgement, unless the system falls apart in the next two hours, the NHC should issue an advisory at 11am, to re-post tropical storm warnings. They may be reluctant to do so, because they posted them once before for this system and then it losts organization before moving onshore the first time, but conditions are more favorable this time around. I feel a bit like I'm watching a rerun of Katrina, in reverse order and obviously on a much less intense scale - with Katrina, the first time was the more intense, with this system I think the second go-round is going to be the more intense. I still don't expect much more than a minimal tropical storm at landfall, simply because of the timing, but, well, this IS Five we're talking about... it's ALIVE


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Mon Aug 16 2010 06:23 PM
Recon

Recon is currently trying to 'fix' a center on X TD 5. Possible center at 29 N/ 87 W. Using flight wind and pressure data. Highest wind speeds encountered so far are southeast of the "wind center" so they are still searching.

Lowest pressure so far is 1009.1 mb near the "center" location.

TD5 Pressure and Wind History:

Time Lowest Extrap Pressure HighestFlt. Lvl. Wind (30s Avg.) Highest SFMR Peak(10s Avg.) Sfc. Wind
08/10 22:29:00Z 1004.9mb (~29.67 inHg) 27kts (~31.0mph) 31kts (~35.6mph)
08/11 09:54:00Z 1003.0mb (~29.62 inHg) 37kts (~42.5mph) 38kts (~43.7mph)
08/11 19:10:30Z 1008.3mb (~29.78 inHg) 28kts (~32.2mph) 43kts (~49.4mph)
08/16 18:03:00Z 1009.1mb (~29.80 inHg) 26kts (~29.9mph) 26kts (~29.9mph)

Data courtesy of tropicalatlantic.com


berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Mon Aug 16 2010 07:32 PM
Remnants of TD5 - 16/1930Z

Twenty knots of east to west shear is effecting the system and 30 knots isn't that far away to the south. The center is right on the edge of the convective mass to its west and along a north/south axis is exposed to the east..

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Mon Aug 16 2010 08:48 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - 16/2030Z

RECON center fix at
B. Center Fix Coordinates: 29°07'N 87°02'W (29.1167N 87.0333W)
D. Estimated (by SFMR or visually) Maximum Surface Wind: 21kts (~ 24.2mph)
H. Minimum Sea Level Pressure: 1008mb (29.77 inHg) - Extrapolated
Maximum Flight Level Wind: 23kts (~ 26.5mph) in the northeast quadrant at 19:05:50Z

Might make a Tropical Depression due to the closed Low. But it's kind of 50/ 50.

The Answer:

SPECIAL TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
410 PM EDT MON AUG 16 2010

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

AN AIR FORCE RESERVE UNIT RECONNAISSANCE AIRCRAFT INVESTIGATING THE
REMNANTS OF TROPICAL DEPRESSION FIVE FOUND A WEAK SURFACE
CIRCULATION LOCATED ABOUT 120 MILES EAST OF THE MOUTH OF THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER. HOWEVER THE ASSOCIATED SHOWERS AND
THUNDERSTORMS REMAIN DISORGANIZED AND MOSTLY REMOVED TO THE
SOUTHWEST OF THE LOW-LEVEL CENTER. UPPER-LEVEL WINDS ARE EXPECTED
TO REMAIN MARGINALLY CONDUCIVE FOR DEVELOPMENT...AND ONLY A SMALL
INCREASE IN ORGANIZATION WOULD RESULT IN THE FORMATION OF A
TROPICAL DEPRESSION AS THE SYSTEM MOVES GENERALLY WESTWARD OR WEST-
NORTHWESTWARD DURING THE NEXT DAY OR SO. THERE IS A HIGH
CHANCE...60 PERCENT...OF THIS SYSTEM BECOMING A TROPICAL CYCLONE
BEFORE MOVING INLAND OVER THE NORTHERN GULF COAST ON TUESDAY.
LOCALLY HEAVY RAINFALL AND GUSTY WINDS ARE POSSIBLE ALONG PORTIONS
OF THE NORTH-CENTRAL GULF OF MEXICO COAST THROUGH TUESDAY. SEE
STATEMENTS FROM LOCAL NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE FORECAST OFFICES FOR
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.

At the time of this post, 4:51pm EDT the first outer rain bands possibly associated with XTD5 are beginning to move into SE MS. 90 miles NW of Mobile,AL


berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:30 PM
Remnants of TD5 - 16/2230Z

The center of the low is now completely exposed and void of convection along a north/south axis and east. Center is located now at 29.0N and 87.5W. Shear has abated and appears to be in area of 10 to 15 knots or less, but stronger shear is not very far away to the SE.

Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Mon Aug 16 2010 11:45 PM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - 16/2230Z

does it seem the low is tracking more north and becoming elongated?

like i would say its closer to PNS then it was 5 hours ago...


berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Tue Aug 17 2010 12:36 AM
Re: Remnants of TD5 - 16/2230Z

Yes; it appears elongated NNE to SSW. I'm about to take a look at it now...I just wiped my two drives and reloaded Windows and just got back on the air. The 17/00Z package won't be out for another few hours.

WesnWylie
(Weather Guru)
Tue Aug 17 2010 04:57 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

The area in the Caribbean is not looking all that bad right now. If the convection persists throughout the day, it may be something worth watching in a day or two as it heads into the Western Caribbean. Other than that, all is very quite right now.

Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Tue Aug 17 2010 05:09 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

just a heads up NASA DC-8 is doing a 5-hr mission shakedown into the storms off of LA... if you have google earth... see link to a real time update, last check there we just east of houston... (note.. when the global hawk goes up for a test flight later this week... it will be real time here too!) **today there loading the GPS Dropsonde parts in... preparing the aircarft for flights later**


Mission synopsis:

No NOAA missions are planned in the next 24 h. Consideration was given
to a mission into ex-TD05 but due to its anticipated short duration over
water, no flights are planned. NOAA is watching PGI27L for signs of
development.

The DC-8 has a takeoff time of 15 UTC 17 August for a 5-hour shakedown
mission and exploration of convection associated with ex-TD05 (or
renewed TD05 if it organizes) over the extreme northern Gulf of Mexico.

The G-V is scheduled to takeoff at 10 UTC 17 August for a 6-h flight
into PGI27L. The flight pattern is a lawnmower pattern with north-south
oriented legs fit into roughly an east-west-elongated rectangle centered
south of the Dominican Republic. On Wednesday, August 18, a takeoff time
of 10 UTC has been proposed to further investigate PGI27L during an 8-h
mission.

http://grip.nsstc.nasa.gov/reporting/


Fairhopian
(Weather Watcher)
Tue Aug 17 2010 05:36 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

Looks like Remnant TD5 has been taking in a jazz brunch on the shore of Lake Pontchartrain for a couple of hours now. Sort of reminds me of Danny over Mobile Bay. Maybe that plane is being sent to tell Remnant TD5 it's time to move on. I assumed the models escorting the system North and then East were reliable, since they all agreed. Any possibility this delinquent depression wannabe could turn South? (I will try not to personify any further.)

allan
(Weather Master)
Tue Aug 17 2010 05:39 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

Just pointing something out here. Most models develop the wave that "fizzled" out 24 hours from now, apparently SAL is not as strong and the satellite shows the waves moisture field a bit large and should keep the storm in tact, away from dry air and SAL. If models are right, which is a big IF, then we will have our first Cape Verde Hurricane of the season. The wave in back of the current one has little model support off and on from the GFS. The 12Z GFS doesn't develop it though. Ridging is looking more clearer as the NAO becomes positive, the GFS looks to be responding to that showing the wave that sort of weakened after exiting Africa as a category 2-3 storm hitting North Florida in 276 hours from now. It's foolish to believe it, but not so foolish to see that the models are consistent with it, hinting at a long track storm next week. It'll be interesting how the troughs and highs play out with this one. The models are now showing that the Atlantic will start to get active next week onward into the Hurricane Season.

(Some off-topic material was removed.)


scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Tue Aug 17 2010 08:38 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

Allen there will probably be around that 15-18 storms as you said. Still, we cant take models into consideration after 4-5 days out. Peeps looking at model runs 120+ needs to understand that they will change from run to run and also
you have to look to see what other models are seeing (if) the same thing. Usually the GFS compared to the ECMWF.
GFDL is usually pretty good also up to 72hrs. Hitting the US in 200hrs + right now is a farmers almanac...they been changing each run.


berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Tue Aug 17 2010 09:58 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

There is a strong cutoff upper level low near 10N 53W that will prohibit any Cape Verde systems from moving west towards the United States. The Azores upper ridge is located near 22N and 33W. Between these two features thee is considerable shear...30 to 40 knots. The upper level low is part of the TUTT that divides the AO in half and anything east of it for the time being will be redirected around the Azores ridge. The Mid Continental Ridge over the South Central US and the Bermuda Ridge is only at the surface and low levels near 35N 65W and 27N 65W and non existent any highter than 700 millibars.

Closer to home...There is an upper low near 20N 78W and it is between this ULL and the ULL at 10N 53W we find a small ridge axis and our tropical wave at the surface.

There is no chance given the upper pattern as it is currently will lend itself to the number of named storms anticipated; however, despite the pattern that is out there now it's the best its been in quite some time and areas of shear in excess of 30 knots are small.

On the synoptic scale there is a cold front that is expected to penetrate the Deep South and move offshore as a long wave trough along the East Coast or a cutloff upper low off the VA coast in 168 hours (1 week). A strong Pacific low and associated trough is expected to slam into the west coast of the US amplifying the Mid-Continental ridge initially and it retrograding west to the Rocky Mtns.

As many have observed the GFS paints what appears to be a hurricane towards the latter end of the period south of Bermuda and again away from the eastern coast of the USA with the longwave trough in the position its in near the coast.

The GFS and ECMWF are very, very good at painting large "dynamic" synoptic features between 72 and 120 hours and generally 50/50 out to 168 hours.

We cannot ask the models to be that specific and that good out to the ranges they are painting what appears to be hurricanes and until these features are within 168 hours, please don't put a lot of faith in these models verifying late range systems.

As for our departing Ex-TD5 it looks better over land than it did over water. I look forward to reading the post-analysis on this system when the season closes out later this year.


WesnWylie
(Weather Guru)
Tue Aug 17 2010 10:12 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

With the latest images on the VIS Sat loop here: http://aviationweather.gov/adds/satellit...g&itype=vis, does it appears that there is a slight spin in the convection south of Hispaniola?

Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Tue Aug 17 2010 10:17 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

Okay, back on focus please. We don't even have a formative storm yet and we've jumped to 200+ forecasts based on model output. When something develops we'll start a speculation thread in the Forecast Lounge - but lets hold off until that happens. On the Main Page thread I'd rather that we not speculate on model output past 120 hours, i.e., the period of time that would be covered by an NHC forecast bulletin - and even then with a lot of common sense.

There is already a thread in The Tropics Today to follow any development updates on these waves. Finally, please attempt to stay on topic in the Main News thread as outlined in the Description: "you can only reply to the topics that are covered in the News Talkback main page leadoff article. "
Thanks,
ED


Fairhopian
(Weather Watcher)
Wed Aug 18 2010 12:30 AM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

Quote:

As for our departing Ex-TD5 it looks better over land than it did over water. I look forward to reading the post-analysis on this system when the season closes out later this year.




I would have to agree with you, Bill. Ex-TD5 does tend to look better over land. One thing in particular which seems to be happening though, in the midst of the remnant convection, is that there are now at least two COC's. To hearken back to my earlier question (Will this system curve North (again) as the models all indicated, or could it curve South?), maybe the answer is "yes" to both possibilities. This is where I prove just how amateur I really am . . . but, looking at the Wundermap radar loop out of Baton Rouge (with storm tracks "on"), it almost looks like a Fujiwara phenomena has been going on for several hours now between the COC in extreme Southwest MS and the COC near Lafayette. Maybe the two COC's will eventually "repel" each other in opposite directions, even though they are both associated with the same broad low. I am just using "Fujiwara" as an analogy, not an analysis. All I have really been doing is watching two persistent vortices parallel each other on radar for a while now. While they appear to have separate bands of convection, their "arms" seem to almost be connected like plastic monkeys in a barrel. Yet the two COC's are obviously at odds with each other as well, because a fairly intense thunderstorm from NW to SE has stayed fired up for hours along their border where their opposite direction winds collide. What are the chances of this broad low splitting?


berrywr
(Weather Analyst)
Wed Aug 18 2010 01:17 AM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

Post removed.

MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Thu Aug 19 2010 08:22 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

Although there are a few areas in the TWO now (Two, one in the Caribbean, and one in the far east Atlantic) it still looks like no development this week. But, yes, next week may start to see more activity.

WeatherNut
(Weather Master)
Sat Aug 21 2010 07:37 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again

Looks as though invest 95L is starting to get its act together. Definite rotation and convection is starting to fire near the center. It seems as though it is farther south 11n 33w than what the models initialized. I still dont buy the early re curvature yet...but until there is a LLC models are not horribly useful

typhoon_tip
(Meteorologist)
Sat Aug 21 2010 08:09 PM
Re: Basin On Hold Again



The appearance on high resolution satellite loop is impressive with clear cyclonic axis notable near around 11.3 N approaching 32W.



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