that guy from canada
(Registered User)
Wed Sep 21 2005 07:06 PM
One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

One question never asked,, is: if the gulf temps are so high.. (91 degrees.) . This fuels the hurricanes.. Why not try and bring the temperatures down 10 degrees and that should soften the blow of these hurricanes..
How do we bring it down?
if I knew that and no one else did,, god forbid me.., But maybe Ice? or 'special' electronic probes they use at the convenience stores to chill down a barrel of water for the pop and beer to get cold in..

Obviously something a lot bigger.. If they can pin point a landing on Mars they could cool down the Gulf of Mexico.. right ?????

(I was going to delete this entire thread, but the Comedy Shop seems to be a good fit)
ED


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Sep 21 2005 07:41 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

Thats a great idea. Maybe we could install huge shock absorbers along fault lines, a massive sprinkler system for forest fires, and a heating system for you freezing canadians while we are at it.

that guy from canada
(Registered User)
Wed Sep 21 2005 07:50 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

Well you can just sit around year after year , after year , being pounded by these hurricanes or you could devise a way to curb them..

A few years of these and the USA will be bankrupt..


i put in my two cents where is yours??


Convergence
(Weather Watcher)
Wed Sep 21 2005 08:09 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

And destroy the entire Gulf ecosystem? Yeah, that's a great idea.

that guy from canada
(Registered User)
Wed Sep 21 2005 08:31 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

the pollution runoff from New Orleans will take care of that...

palmautomall
(Registered User)
Wed Sep 21 2005 09:02 PM
Sitting Ducks......

Really...what do we know? I'm no professor and neither are you. Otherwise we would be talking more intelligently. But since your on the topic. Your right and I have been saying this since I personally was hit by Hurricane Charley in my town last August 13th.
One thing fuels a Hurricane....high water temps and high air temps. Then the wind takes it. What slows it down? Well....land and cooler air and water temps. Since we can't create land in front of a hurricane...why not cool it. Or at least try....SOMETHING!!!!!!
Primitive idea and it might even be stupid but here goes..... A NOAA plane flies over the eye and drops a cooling system int the hurricane. Not a million 5000 lb. bags of ice. Something like a liquid nitrogen bomb if you will. That erupts in the center of the hurricane and acts as an immediate cooling device. And it should be done near Africa....where they came from to begin with! So if it should happen to work...GREAT. But if it should happen to change the direction to the opposite way.....then at least it goes back to where it originated. Not that I want Africa to get hit either....... but better them than me. Sorry, but hurricane victims think that way.
So...lets do nothing and have our homeland destroyed and watch our insurance premiums go through the roof, the nation debt., unemployment and everything else.
Now how stupid is that? The hurricane activity is not going to stop. Something will eventually get done or at least testing will begin after Texas gets destroyed on Friday. I've seen 4 Hurricanes close up last year. I live on the Southwest Gulf coast of Florida. It's not fun right now........


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Sep 21 2005 09:14 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

How about installing some giant fans on the coastal areas :?:

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Wed Sep 21 2005 09:50 PM
Re: Sitting Ducks......

You all don't understand the power of these storms. A normal hurricane has the power of at least 10,000 atomic bombs and the amount of water it churns, both at the surface and through depth, it enormous. Trust me, this is not the first time these ideas have been thought about (and won't be the last), but I can unequivocally say that they will not work and will likely have tangential effects on the ecosystem/environment unforseen to many.

palmautomall
(Registered User)
Wed Sep 21 2005 09:51 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

Dude....you can't be serious. Right....you just messin around, right!!! Giant fans.........yeah and maybe I'll get Mr.Freeze to stop by and blow on the hurricane. If you are ever in threat of a hurricane, you'll see how funny it isn't

jr928
(Weather Guru)
Wed Sep 21 2005 09:53 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

perhaps instead of large fans and 200 billion dollars of ice (boy that's a funny thought) how about we just don't build multi billion dollar industries and cities on the water? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Sep 21 2005 09:59 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

Sometimes the primative ideas are the best ones. I think you're actually on the right track there. The trick is to "attack" the storm while it's still a forming tropical depression, and not wait until it turns into a raging hurricane. But I like the concept - when you see the storm forming, break it up before it has a chance to grow. The question would be, if you dropped some sort of "pressure bomb" (or thermal one) into the eye of the storm to try and break things up, how long lasting would that effect be? How long before temperature and pressure returned to their "pre-bomb" state? Would it be sufficient to permanently break it up, or just delay the inevitable?

Why is it that some tropical depressions don't grow into hurricanes while others do? I'm sure that's a question climatologists have been trying to answer for decades. You'd like to think that if you could isolate a series of events that caused a TD to break up, then the only remaining challenge would be to artificially create those same events, thus giving you the ability to "prevent" a hurricane.

Therein lies the challenge.

Until then, keep your eyes on the skies, and stay safe!


palmautomall
(Registered User)
Wed Sep 21 2005 10:00 PM
Re: Sitting Ducks......

You go Clark. Thanks.....now were getting somewhere! So what are we going to do? Are they really even trying or is there just now way?

twizted sizter
(Weather Guru)
Wed Sep 21 2005 10:01 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

Bingo!!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Sep 21 2005 10:43 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

All ways to stop them are economically unfeasable, but so is the clean up. And thats not dis-counting the lost lives. To say there no way is the ostridge in the sand approach that would of never landed a man on the moon or the exploration of Mars. But right now mother nature is doing what she's done for Centuries.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Sep 21 2005 11:50 PM
Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

There is an article in the paper that people might like. Here's the link http://heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050921/BUSINESS/509210598


So, thoughts? Is this feasible?

Dynagel is in no way feasible. The product just wouldn't work and poses some environmental threats, despite the claims to the contrary. Also keep in mind the material posted in the next post -- it is spot on. --Clark


JulieTampa
(Verified CFHC User)
Thu Sep 22 2005 12:04 AM
Hurricanes Are Necessary

Hurricanes play a part in the world's ecology - they bring water and warmth from the Tropics into more Northern latitudes. Much worse consequences would result if we stopped them from occuring.

satellite steve
(Weather Hobbyist)
Thu Sep 22 2005 01:30 AM
Re: Hurricanes Are Necessary

But --- Are we making things worse by warming the planet -- lot's of great debate out there about global warming.

There are definite cycles to hurricane activity and it is obvious to all we are in a cycle of intense activity that may subside over the coming years. Still there is recent evidence that the percentage of intense storms in the Atlantic & W.Pacific basins is increasing -- Is this a manifestation of global warming??


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Thu Sep 22 2005 01:56 AM
Re: Hurricanes Are Necessary

Problem is that the number/percent of intense storms -- and storms in general -- is going down across other basins. Globally, the number has remained largely the same for many years now (since we have reliable data into the 60s). Global warming doesn't act in two opposite manners; plus, with global warming, many have predicted more El Nino events. That would suppress activity in the Atlantic and enhance it in the W. Pacific; generally, activity in those two basins are not positively correlated. There are way too many questions and holes in the theory to claim global warming is the cause for much of anything related to the tropics...IMO.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Sep 22 2005 02:09 AM
Re: Avoid hurricanes ..

Perhaps the authorities should rethink the importance of housing or not housing people in such hazardous locations. Seems towns even 100km inland from the coast are generally safe from these storms! Existing coastal towns and cities could be downgraded in size to that required service the oil rigs and refineries only.

Multi-Decadal Signal
(Weather Guru)
Thu Sep 22 2005 04:15 AM
Re: Hurricanes Are Necessary

Quote:

Hurricanes play a part in the world's ecology - they bring water and warmth from the Tropics into more Northern latitudes. Much worse consequences would result if we stopped them from occurring.



During the last 4-5 decades the U.S. has attempted to modify the weather using several methods. We even went off shore and seeded a TD or TS with AgI (silver iodide crystals) in an attempt to rain out further development of the nascent system. Cloud seeding was tried many times within the confines of the country as well. Two problems, at least, became manifest.

The data did not sufficiently support the hypothesis and...
Foreign countries claimed that we were making the storms worse for them. They told us to cease and desist or face legal action.

Because One man's meat is another's poison and because the accumulated data was inconclusive at best, we stopped experimenting totally or for a goodly number of years. Conspiracy theorists have, in fairly recent times, raised the claim that we are using highly secret electronic methods in service of weather modification.

To my mind, because of the thermodynamic leveling action of our beloved Tropical Storms; We should hew to these adages.
  • DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS
  • DON'T FOOL WITH MOTHER NATURE.

  • GET OFF THE BEACH, YOU MORON! (most important of all)

  • Unregistered User
    (Unregistered)
    Thu Sep 22 2005 08:42 AM
    Re: Hurricanes Are Necessary

    Quote: "Hurricanes play a part in the world's ecology - they bring water and warmth from the Tropics into more Northern latitudes. Much worse consequences would result if we stopped them from occuring." Unquote

    I was waiting for someone to say that.
    Hurricanes are nature's way of dispersing heat from the Equator to the Poles

    Duh!


    Unregistered User
    (Unregistered)
    Thu Sep 22 2005 09:20 AM
    Re: Hurricanes Are Necessary

    Wow...interesting conversation I have stumbled across. Manipulating weather, and what not. I was a young lad living in Miami, FL. when I remember a silver oxide cloud seeding project being done up in central FL. Can't remember the results though.

    Whatever the cause of the increase in tropical storm frequency and/or intensity, we really should leave them alone. We wanted to raise cattle in the plains, so we eliminated the coyote...bad idea. So we want to live by the sea. And now we want to engineer the weather to our liking? Not a good idea.

    Mr. Anderson said it best, "You (meaning man) are a virus."
    But we are a smart virus. Can we be smart enough NOT to destroy that which supports our very existance? We'll see, eh?

    Leave the weather alone. Move away from the coast if you can't handle the storms. Clean up our polution output as best we can. And hope the earth is not just on a purging cycle trying to shake off the virii that has infected her.

    Peace.
    Keith


    Calmstorm
    (Registered User)
    Thu Sep 22 2005 10:53 AM
    Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

    OK for the sceince of this question consider the following before you even think about playing around with nature...

    Gulf Facts:
    The Gulf of Mexico basin resembles a large pit with a broad shallow rim. Approximately 38% of the Gulf is comprised by shallow and intertidal areas (< 20 m deep). The area of the continental shelf (< 180 m) and continental slope (180 - 3,000 m) represent 22% and 20% respectively, and abyssal areas deeper than 3,000 m comprise the final 20% (Gore, 1992). The Sigsbee Deep, located in the southwestern quadrant, is the deepest region of the Gulf of Mexico. Its exact maximum depth is controversial, and reports by different authors state maximum depths ranging from 3,750 m to 4,384 m. Mean (average) water depth of the Gulf is ~1,615 m (Turner, 1999) and the basin contains a volume of 2,434,000 cubic kilometers of water (6.43 * 1017 gallons).

    Sooooo... .125gal=1lbs. and it takes 1BTU to to raise that 1 degree, it should take somewhere around 10.3 quadrillion Window AC units @ 5000 BTU to bring the gulf temp down 10 degrees. Ummmm No... BTW that would require the sun as a power source, not just "solar power", the sun.


    Unregistered User
    (Unregistered)
    Thu Sep 22 2005 10:56 AM
    Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

    That is a very interesting idea. Cool down the Gulf of Mexico. While we are at it maybe we could also warm up Canada. Thanks I needed a good laugh about now.

    Unregistered User
    (Unregistered)
    Thu Sep 22 2005 11:49 AM
    Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

    will someone figure this out for me please?

    at approximately $ .06/kw, how much would it cost to cool 6.43 x 10 (17th power) gallons of water from approximately 34 degees C to 23 degrees C (90 degees F to 80 degrees F)?


    Chris Bryant
    (Verified CFHC User)
    Thu Sep 22 2005 12:08 PM
    Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

    While I am reasonably certain the NCC-1701 Enterprise could generate enough power to cool the GOM , I do wonder what a few million barrels of Gulf Crude floating on the water might do.. then I also worry that we might find out .

    A bit of editorializing- I feel our options are going to be to simply abandon near oceanfront property- harden that which we cannot let go back to nature. Last year here in Florida, the area which didn't have any "beach erosion" was the Canaveral National Seashore- the storms actually replenished the dunes, as the wave were allowed to simply wash over unimpeded.
    If these past 2 years are a taste of decades to come....


    Unregistered User
    (Unregistered)
    Sat Sep 24 2005 02:35 AM
    Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

    Please make this stop.
    You are not even Canadian, average canadian is far better informed about these storms that are battering your coasts.


    Google these terms and find out how a hurricane really works.
    Eye Wall replacement
    Low Shear zones and Hurricanes
    and figure out why a hurricane rotates counter clockwise not clockwise

    Before you trigger happy folks start bombing the hell out of the oceans, find out how these beasts really work. Scientists have already tried these approaches, and they found it is far more economically feasible to invest money in sounder building structures rather than investing in solutions to dismantling a hurricane that is equivalent to 1000ís of Megaton Hydrogen Bombs. It would be like stopping a train with a feather.


    Did you even know where Rita originated from? It was just a bunch of thunderstorms in the Caribbean. This particular storm did not originate off the coast off Africa.


    Unregistered User
    (Unregistered)
    Sun Oct 23 2005 01:09 AM
    Re: One way to curb/slow these hurricanes is this idea..

    How about just as the storm is approaching everyone flush their toilets in unison. The resultant wave of cooler water will push that storm away from us.....

    satellite steve
    (Weather Hobbyist)
    Sun Oct 23 2005 01:47 AM
    Re: Avoid hurricanes ..

    If we are going to build on the coast, we have to be prepared to deal with the storms --- It certainly makes no sense to build standard homes in surge areas.

    There are other ways to deal if we are going to build on the beach -- see http://www.domeofahome.com/

    This home stood right in the way of Ivan '04 and Dennis '05 with little structural damage while the neighbors were flattened in Pensacola Beach. The yard pool and garage filled with sand and the blow-out stairs washed away, but no roof to blow off or leak


    Unregistered User
    (Unregistered)
    Sun Oct 23 2005 11:31 AM
    Re: Hurricanes Are Necessary

    That's right. There are conspiracy theories revolving around since the cold war of a device that sends massive microwave energy to diverge weather systems. This is the same energy that you have in your home. In fact, the russians had created one and it is believed to have been sold to the Japanese. It could be a bunch of b.s. but it's not out of the realm of possibility if you do some research.

    the young weatherman
    (Verified CFHC User)
    Sun Oct 23 2005 01:56 PM
    Hurricanes ARE Necessary

    I don't support any ideas about colling things down and stuffs, hurricanes are our natural weather occurance. the reason there is more hurricanes right now is because we already ruined our emvironment. By using unnatural ways to change the weathr patterns will result in more environmental damage

    Quote:

    "Disasters are perfect lessons for teaching humans not to mess with The enviroment"




    Random Chaos
    (Weather Analyst)
    Tue Oct 25 2005 02:00 PM
    Re: Hurricanes ARE Necessary

    Just to put this in a thermodynamic perspective:

    Due to the Law of Entropy, any heat removed from one part of a system must be added in a greater quantity to another part of the system. Therefore, to remove heat from the oceans would mean transfering heat to the air plus the heat output of the work done to transfer the heat, which would in turn warm the oceans more than doing nothing.

    The only solution to the heating of oceans is to create, globally, the inverse effect of the greenhouse effect, cooling the atmosphere enough to lower sea temperatures. A giant volcanic eruption is one potential way of doing this...but it isn't exactly something that we, as humans, can cause easily. This would cause a cooling of the Earth's atmosphere by changing an external effect on the system: the effects of the sun. Thus it is not bound by localized thermodynamical properties mentioned in the first scenario.


    cyclonekiller
    (Verified CFHC User)
    Fri Nov 11 2005 08:29 PM
    Re: Hurricanes ARE Necessary

    This Idea solves everything.

    http://flhurricane.com/cyclone/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=63446&an=0&page=0#63446



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