LI Phil
(User)
Sat Oct 30 2004 07:23 PM
Are You Ready For Some Football?



Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sat Oct 30 2004 07:24 PM
Re: Are You Ready For Some Football?

GWB has more experience, he was a Cheerleader!

LI Phil
(User)
Sat Oct 30 2004 10:44 PM
This one is for

The Gipper!

For bonus points: Who said this:

We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job.

Hint...the speaker of the above quote also said this:

Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sat Oct 30 2004 11:19 PM
Re: This one is for

Winston Churchill no doubt!

LI Phil
(User)
Sat Oct 30 2004 11:28 PM
Re: This one is for

Bonus points awarded.

Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 12:05 AM
Re: This one is for

At first I thought it was JFK but then I remebered good ol Winston. BTW, that's a good viedo.

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 12:25 AM
Re: This one is for

At first I thought it was JFK

John F. Kerry?

BTW, this is how a real man throws a ball (my ONLY favorite Red Sock):



Not like this:



Which always ends up like this:



LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 12:36 AM
More Bonus Points...

Who said this:

"Good evening. Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors. Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world. Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.

"That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq. They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors.

"Bringing change in Baghdad will take time and effort. We will strengthen our engagement with the full range of Iraqi opposition forces and work with them effectively and prudently. The decision to use force is never cost-free. Whenever American forces are placed in harm's way, we risk the loss of life. And while our strikes are focused on Iraq's military capabilities, there will be unintended Iraqi casualties. Indeed, in the past, Saddam has intentionally placed Iraqi civilians in harm's way in a cynical bid to sway international opinion.

"If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people. And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them. Because we're acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future."


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:00 AM
Re: More Bonus Points...

Colin Powell, I think Kennedy:JFK

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:03 AM
Re: More Bonus Points...

It was NOT Colin Powell, though that is a pretty good guess. No bonus points for this round...

Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:09 AM
Re: More Bonus Points...

Oh wait just one more guess Clinton?

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:17 AM
Re: More Bonus Points...

That is correct...no bonus points awarded, as you only get one shot at the apple.

Those several paragraphs and more were spoken by President William Jefferson Clinton on December 16, 1998, in an address to the nation...


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:23 AM
Re: More Bonus Points...

Oh well, it's always good to now stuff like that...I knew it had to be Clinton or Powell and no Bush because the word Mass destruction was not included in the speech!

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:31 AM
Re: More Bonus Points...

Quote:

Oh well, it's always good to now stuff like that...I knew it had to be Clinton or Powell and no Bush because the word Mass destruction was not included in the speech!




>>> They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors.

Last sentence, paragraph 2.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:35 AM
Re: More Bonus Points...

Whoops but you have to admit he does throw that word around quite a bit! I'm a democrat, and don't want to see any type of involvment in Iraq whatsoever anymore. Enough is enough, we looked for the weapons and we couldn't find them. I heard that the "weapons" were sent into Siberia...what do you think?

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 02:09 AM
Re: More Bonus Points...

You know Bush is NOT going to reinstate the draft...the military does not want it...you have nothing to fear if Bush is re-elected.

This cliche has been uttered more times than needed, but it still holds: "If we do not learn from history, we are destined to repeat it."

Where are the socalled WMD? I don't know...but I do know that war is a last resort...Clinton & Bush both know (knew) that. No one wants troops in Iraq "for the heck of it."

These brave men and women, including a few on this website (not in Iraq, but in the military in other theatres), dedicate themselves so people like you and me have the right to say whatever we feel is right. Eventually, we will liberate Iraq...re-read those quotes from Churchill & Clinton...freedom isn't free...it comes at a price.

Perhaps if our previous President had acted a tad more forcefully (he sure talked a good game), many of my neighbors, friends and a relative, as well as more than 3,000 in the Towers, the Pentagon & in the skies over Pennsylvania would still be alive today...it's great to be a democrat...I have several friends who are...so it's not about party label.

If Kerry wins I will support him 100%; he will be our commander in chief and our President...and if he wins, I would hope he will continue the war on terror that was brought upon us in 1979...with the taking of the American Hostages in Iran.

The United States CANNOT allow history to repeat itself!

Otherwise all of europe would be speaking German today and the state of Israel would not exist (and I'm not jewish).

Courageous leaders like FDR & HST (both democrats) weren't afraid to let the rest of the world know that democracy kicks ass and that freedom isn't free...

Truman NEVER once regretted dropping not one, but two, atomic bombs on Japan, so long as it ensured unconditional surrender.

You want the troops out of Iraq? Then you better make DAMN sure there's no more reason for them to be there...

I'm watching the news as we speak, and Al Queda just decapitated a Japanese 24 year old student...it's all related and it's truly as the current president stated some time ago:

"You're either with us or you're with the terrorists."

Lets Roll...


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 12:18 PM
Re: More Bonus Points...

I know that we are all upset from the attacks from terroists, but sometimes people have to realize the line between being offensize and defensive. I am not afraid of any form of draft if that may be what you think, I just don't think it is necessary. You don't always have to drop an atomic bomb on someone to kill the threat for that matter, it's much more athenian like (be strategic). Take this for example; the Spartans trained day and night and waited for war against Athens, while the Athenians trained mentally and less physically. When the war came the Athenian's one, because the Spartans got trapped in the wrong position. I'm not saying Republicans are going to die, I just don't want it to be another Vietnam. That's why I don't want Bush anymore, I want someone more passive-aggressive. Just my thoughts

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:14 PM
Re: More Bonus Points...

Passive Aggressive.

That's a pretty shallow and short sighted view. Patiently waiting to be attacked and then becoming aggressive and fighting back is exactly what cost over 3,000 Americans their lives on September 11, 2001.

In todays world, pre-emptive strikes allow the Commander in Chief to take the battle to the enemy rather than fight them on our own shores. President Bush made an interesting comment about a "gathering threat". A gathering threat is when you are off in the distance watching your enemy train day and night, preparing to do harm to your people.

The question is a simple one. Do you want to fight the enemy over there, or do you want to fight them here, in your schools, downtown parks and plazas and small coffee shops like they do in Isreal. Do you want terrorists to gain a foothold that allows them to take over a school like in Russia? No, I say the best thing to do is to take the fight to them on their own soil (or someone elses), hunt everyone of them down and kill them unmercifully (no bonus points for style).

The fact that so many terrorists are going into Iraq to fight the U.S. military is a good one. Kerry and his liberal morons claim that we are now less safe because of the terrorists entering Iraq. This is complete and utter crap. The U.S. has defined the battle field and has drawn these people out to fight on foreign soil rather than fight them here. Any conclusion to the contrary is wrong headed and foolish.

So... you can take your ignorance to the next level by disagreeing with simple truth or take the straight path to common sense.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 01:54 PM
Re: More Bonus Points...

I guess I'm taking it to the next level...and I'm not trying to preach my political status and I"m not saying it's wrong to be a republican, got it. You don't go around calling people morons because they have a some thoughts that you disagree with, that is the worst thing to do. "A nation divided cannot stand", and if people start taking their beliefs to the radical level it will be worse then if terrorists invaded America. Presidents have the same goal, to PROTECT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE neither Kerry, Bush, Bush or Kerry want any Americans to die for any un-necessary reason. Bush didn’t even admit to his fault, imagine if John F. Kennedy didn’t admit he didn’t do anything wrong in the Bay of Pigs, it would have been a disaster. If you are going to insult, then please don't post, I don't need it.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Oct 31 2004 02:39 PM
Hmmm...

See, even in your reply you don't answer the valid points and simple truths stated in my prior post. This is common among the uninformed, regardless of party affiliation.

I'm not calling YOU a moron, but if the shoe fits, only you would know. I meant no offense and appreciate the exchange. Just wanted to bring sharp focus to those who mislead America with half truths and full lies. I could have called them “liars”, but chose “morons” instead. In election years, folks often fail to remove the rhetoric from the undeniable facts.

Let's pretend you are all grown up and married. A van full of men stop on the street and grab your wife. Would you say, "fellas, when your done with her, just drop her off at the address you will find on her Driver's License" or do you react violently? Being passive has no measure of degree, but the opposite is true of swift and forceful action. When those you love or those you are sworn to protect are in danger, I for one expect a disproportional and violent reaction to immediately render any threat neutral. Since all Americans are my family, this view applies broadly.

I'm not advocating for Republicans or Democrats. Just speaking the truth. My vote is for the man that has demonstrated a willingness to keep my family safe. Period. One man has done that and the other has over 20 years experience in diminishing our ability to protect our citizens. Another simple truth that is in the public record for all to see. I expect, however, that someone will give a reason for every single one of the 800+ votes cast by this man to reduce our military and intelligence services over the course of his ultra liberal career.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 03:21 PM
Re: Hmmm...

I understand where you're coming from and you do have some good points but I suddendly conjured up this thought, "walk with a big stick, and speak softly." You can't always anwser violence with violence, sometimes you have to be diplomatic, watch what you say then attack. It's all fun and games until you kill an innocent civilian, then what do you say; I thought this...that he was. Pretty interesting, you sure put up a good arguement, stick around for tommorrow...

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 04:15 PM
WOW!

Go to sleep for a few hours and lookie what happens....

Yeah, right! Four More Years!!!

JasonKeith234...when I was your age I wanted Jimmy Carter to be president in the worst way...get rid of Ford and the whole Nixon thing. Well, I got what I wished for...need I say more???

John Forbes Kerry (You know Forbes Magazine? Yep...Same family) has been a child and an adult of privilege all his life (so has Bush). He has never had to bust his hump 12-14 hours a day for minimum wage just so he could afford to pay rent (heh...imagine Bush or sKerry even having to worry that their rent check might beat their pay check to the bank). That's the real world, not the world in which these two live. Neither one of them speaks for the Athenian or common man. Funny point about the Spartan way vs. the northern greeks...I remember that from jr. high and it was fascinating...but then we learned the Romans kicked the greek's asses...then the barbarians kicked the romans' asses...then the dark ages came...

But this is 2004 and the one man who is going to keep myself and my family safe"r" (we can never be totally safe) from the evildoers is the man currently serving as commander in chief. His opponent has, since 1971, been trashing the US military, and despite his recent assertions to the contrary, has consistently voted for every measure to WEAKEN US presence throughout the world. Isolationism didn't work in 1914 or 1938. It certainly won't work in 2004.

Since you seem to have stumbled on this nation's GREATEST president's statement, "Walk softly and carry a big stick" (that would be Teddy Roosevelt...you live close to Sagamore Hill...the "summer White House"...go see it sometime), you must realize that the US has a tremendous burden to carry. Fortunately or unfortunately, we have become the world's de facto police officers. We defeated Communism and we will defeat terrorism...

It'll all be over soon (the election that is). The war on terrorism, however, will not.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 04:54 PM
Re: WOW!

Actually I have did have a chance to visit TDR house. Isolationism didn't work because it wasn't carried out to it's fullest ablities. We gave Europe weapons, then the Luistana sank and the whole spiel..you know the rest. If we have to pratice imperialism so be it, but don't go around looking for trouble; not even the police do that, at least around here! I do agree with you that Bush and Kerry aren't real people but that position could never have a normal average person. Canada has praticed isolation, how many wars have they gotten involved in. Oh well, we'll see, I have the feeling that GWB is going to get relected, no matter what I can say.

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:07 PM
Re: WOW!

>>> I have the feeling that GWB is going to get relected, no matter what I can say.



Storm Cooper
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:08 PM
Re: WOW!

Very interesting talk here. This subject can go on (and will) forever. The world has changed since 9/11and will never be the same again. Everyones idea of right and wrong will differ and what is right/wrong has changed also...anyway...I admire Israel. They don't ask for advise or ask "please may we".... you screw with them, you smell JP and a few hours later all your stuff is blown to hell! Right or wrong?, your opinion but I do like the direct approach.

LI Phil.... agreed. GWB is in the house!


LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:23 PM
Wrong For America

Sen. Kerry Voted Against B-1 Bomber.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against B-2 Stealth Bomber.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against F-14.
(H. R. 5803, CQ Vote #319: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against F-15.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against F-16.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against AV-8B Harrier Vertical Takeoff And Landing Jet Fighters.
(H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against AH-64 Apache Helicopters.
(H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Patriot Missiles.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Aegis Air Defense Cruiser.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Trident Missile System For U.S. Submarines.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against M-1 Abrams Tanks.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Bradley Fighting Vehicle.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Tomahawk Cruise Missile.
(S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:25 PM
Re: WOW!

Isarel is up in your face because the country is so small, it has to stick up for itself otherwise who will? America has acquried the element of Fear from past wars, and many other countries are either jealous or just don't want to fight. How is a group of terroists going to gain a foothold in the United States when a person like me (blonde hair, blue eyes, LI accent) can't even get on a plane to go to Boston?

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:35 PM
Fortunately for me...

I don't have a Lon Guysland accent!

>>> How is a group of terroists going to gain a foothold in the United States when a person like me (blonde hair, blue eyes, LI accent) can't even get on a plane to go to Boston?

I've got blond hair and blue eyes, but I have flown to Boston on occasion...

Though, Coop, last (and only) time I was in PCB, I got plucked out of the line and they did the full terrorist search...even did the thing with the shoes...

And my flight was going to Hartsfield (ATL), not LGA, so they couldn't have done it just cuz I was a Yankee!


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:33 PM
Re: Wrong For America

Kerry likes some violence too."I will never hesitate to use force when it is required. Any attack will be met with a swift and certain response. I will never give any nation or international institution a veto over our national security."

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:45 PM
Re: Wrong For America

Quote:

Kerry likes some violence too."I will never hesitate to use force when it is required. Any attack will be met with a swift and certain response. I will never give any nation or international institution a veto over our national security."




I think he got all of his violence out while he was in nam raping and pillaging, shooting fleeing women carrying babies in the back, cutting off ears, hands and feet...

http://www.streamload.com/jmstein77/Kerry2.mp3

A MUST CLICK!



Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:48 PM
Re: Fortunately for me...

You only think you don't have an accent, I went to California the San Fransico area, man did the people laugh. They pinpointed me to LI as soon as I said hello, I not kidding it's all true!

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 05:59 PM
Not all Long Islander's

have Long Island accents...

Unfortunately, the only time anyone from Long Island makes news, it the Amy Fishah's the Joey Buddafookoos, the Carolyn McCarthy's...

It depends upon where you were raised...when I go to areas where the LI accent is thick, I tend to 'break out' the accent a bit. Not everyone around here speaks like Ralph Maccio in My Cousin Vinny. But I gotta admit, Joe Pesci & Marisa Tomei did NAIL the accent beautifully

The Bahstin Brahmin doesn't have an accent, yet Ted Kennedy's is as thick as Chivas...er-ahh Chowdah.

All depends upon the area in which you were raised...


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 06:18 PM
Re: Not all Long Islander's

I guess your right. I'm not going to be online for the rest of the day until tommorrow afternoon going out with some buddies. Have a happy halloween and don't let the trick or treater's bite!

LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 06:29 PM
The Common Man...

Enjoy your Hallowe'en Keith!

Scaramouche & Flying Squirrel


52255225
(Weather Guru)
Sun Oct 31 2004 08:46 PM
Re: The Common Man...

Yep! No convincing needed here. His record tells all! What a slimeball he is. I cant believe anyone would even consider voting for Kerry. Hes nothing but a coattail riding U.N. bu-- kisser... There is absolutely no sincerity in this man! I come from a long line of veterans and cannot believe that this is even a choice for our Great United States. Shame. Wake up America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

52255225
(Weather Guru)
Sun Oct 31 2004 08:55 PM
Re: The Common Man...

President Bush lied, but they didn't?


One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bott! om line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is
clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons
of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a
great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will
use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is
the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom
D! aschle (D-SD), John Kerry ( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and
he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear
programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In
addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless
using the cover of a ilicit missile program to develop longer-range
missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and
others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

! "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and
chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible
to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as
Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intellig!
ence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because
I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his
hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear
weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have
always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of
weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.
This he has refused to do."
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and
biological weapon stock, his missile delivery capability, and his
nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to
terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if
left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to
wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop
nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing
capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass
destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation .. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass
destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass
destruction is real."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003


LI Phil
(User)
Sun Oct 31 2004 09:15 PM
See...you can't have it both ways

52255225 Well documented.

If "they" say it, it can be ignored and/or swept under the rug, unless convenient...and then they can flip flop and change it to suit the prevailing winds...

When GWB says it, HE MEANS it, and he follows through with it. The only thing more unpredictable than hurricanes are JFK's positions on the issues.

http://www.liquidgeneration.com/flix/video_kerry1.asp

Even though the Viet Nam photo is doctored, don't be so sure it didn't happen this way...


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sun Oct 31 2004 11:35 PM
Re: See...you can't have it both ways

The Bush family has been known for their lie's need I say the tax increase. Kerry seems like his opinions are changing because he has been involved for such a long time in politics that many things have changed. LI phil, just because he own's numerous houses, jets and such doesn't mean he doesn't work for the common man. Thats hippocritic to say that,if you had money in the millions you would tell me you wouldn't use it, the wealthly live weathly.

Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 12:02 AM
Re: Wrong For America

Just one more thing, if someone could anwser this. Why are we still involved in Iraq, when the terroist threat came from Afganastan, and the weapons on mass desturction are not there?

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Nov 01 2004 12:27 AM
Still in Iraq

The President, U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives all acted on the same intelligence information when they decided TOGETHER to go into Iraq. That information came from a hold over from the Clinton Administration. To be fair, this same man also worked for the prior Bush Administration. As we all know now, this data was flawed.

It is interesting that President Bush is taking all the blame for acting on the same data that Kerry acted on and every other Senator and Congressman (except the lone hold out from California).

Why are we still in Iraq? Well, let's see... we beat the crap out of them and removed their government. Right or wrong, we now have an obligation to the Iraqi citizens to bring peace and stability to their country and region.

Make no mistake... I'm pissed that the data was flawed. I'm pissed that over 1,000 U.S. Service men and women have died. I'm more pissed that over 16,000 us citizens were murdered last year and nobody is talking about that.

I'm also pissed that every single "Bush Basher" has an opinion but can't point to a single fact or instance to back up their claims. If you want a real issue to bash Bush with, stick to how conservative he is. Disagree with his policies or public stance on issues, but don't be a complete moron sputtering "he lies" -or- "he's only out for big business". That's a bunch of crap filling empty pages that few will read anyhow.

State facts, not more mindless rhetoric.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 12:45 AM
Re: Still in Iraq

Very defensive once again, you act like I'm insulting your child. I think you need to wake up, if you look at how many posts Bashing Kerry then would see. Look at all the videos made against him, pictures, and little catch phrases, there's even a website to bash kerry. If you don't see that you're blind. Again with the moron remark, I'm tired of it, and I don't want to talk to people that shut me out. So got it, lay off and go about you work!

LI Phil
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 12:47 AM
Re: Still in Iraq

>>> there's even a website to bash kerry.

Jason/Keith,

There are about four hundred websites bashing Kerry. And they didn't crop up just for the hell of it.

You are always most welcome to post with any comments on this board...but if you want to play with the big boys, then you need to be prepared for unconditional surrender...

Skeet will appreciate this: "It's my will against yours...an you WILL LOSE"


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:04 AM
Re: Still in Iraq

I don't mind posting , but if my idea's are shot down faster then if GWB flew a plane, then what's the point. I need some backup...

LI Phil
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:13 AM
Re: Still in Iraq

Who? This guy?:



Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:17 AM
The beauty of truth

The beauty of truth is that it can stand by itself. It doesn't need a cosigner. Nothing else is required. Lies need to be supported by more lies, or ever increasing chatter and further deception.

Some things are true, whether you believe them or not.

Once again, I was speaking in general terms. Not calling YOU a moron. I was speaking to the unwashed and uninformed who constantly spew accusations without specific facts or proof. You can't make general comments and expect to be taken seriously. It is you who keeps lumping yourself in with the crowd I'm talking about, and then you get mad at me. Come see me during recess and we'll sort this out.

I will defend the truth. If that makes me defensive... well, ok. No problem.


LI Phil
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:23 AM
Re: The beauty of truth

>>> Come see me during recess and we'll sort this out.

My daddy can beat up your daddy!!!!


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:21 AM
Re: The beauty of truth

Doubtful. Mines a former U.S. Marine Drill instructor who can still crack walnuts with his ass cheeks.

Storm Cooper
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:27 AM
Re: Still in Iraq

Well well, Yeah, right....you did a great job on that post! Some things I have to walk away from, my words won't come out right....so Thanks. LI Phil... on the money also...again! Keith... it is a free country and your opinion is fine...it just seems most are with another camp so I'm not sure about any "back up".... that is all it is.

Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:29 AM
Re: The beauty of truth

I'm taking it personally because no one else is posting that is a democrat...you keep on anwsering with the word moron included in the post. Let's end it here, okay.

LI Phil
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:38 AM
Re: The beauty of truth

>>>> no one else is posting that is a democrat...

sKerry is talll...think about it!!!


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:38 AM
Re: The beauty of truth

Quote:

I'm taking it personally because no one else is posting that is a democrat...you keep on anwsering with the word moron included in the post. Let's end it here, okay.




Ok, I won't use that word anymore. I think your opinions are valuable. To you, and obviously tons of other people. I just happen to disagree with many of your thoughts and conclusions.

What makes America so strong is our diversity and our willingness to go to the mat to sort out our differences.
Serious dialogue requires serious people. If you have something specific to discuss or debate, many here will take you up. You'll find that when you drop the generalities and speak to the facts, EVERYONE will listen to you and offer meaningful debate. This is a good thing to bear in mind as you go through your life and start shaving, etc. You may be outnumbered in this small arena, but it is obvious thay you are in agreement with just less than half the people in our country... and that is what makes us strong and why we like guys like you.

If two people always agreed, one of them would be unnecessary.


Heather
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:42 AM
Re: The beauty of truth

Seems to me that Bush supporters see no wrong in him, and opposers can see very little right with him. I figure that at this point nobody's opinions are going to change and that is OK, we'll have to wait and see how it all turns out. I do have a question or two for you all. The President mentioned that in retrospect of things that he has made no mistakes. Do you agree? Doesn't everyone make mistakes? Also, do any of you question the relationship between the Bush's and the Saudi's? None of us have all the facts about that, but surely it makes you wonder? Would be glad to see some tropical activity out there, as I definitiely enjoy that conversation better.

Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 01:52 AM
Re: The beauty of truth

I'll do some research on the topic's I want, but let's what till Tuesday to discuss. I got off from work, and such things, and that day will be better. Heather, don't be scared to post anything we will all accept it but if you don't want to you you don't have to, okay?

Heather
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Nov 01 2004 02:06 AM
Re: The beauty of truth

I'm not afraid to post, just know that these debates can't be "won". Most of the issues get very heated, for example Iraq, etc. I don't have the energy for all of that. I know that things really aren't the way they should or could be. Take health insurance-everyone should have it. My family is one of the many that doesn't. I can't afford the $1,400 a month that it would cost me. Sad thing is my husband and I are both nurses for Pete's sake-that just doesn't make any sense.

SkeetoBiteAdministrator
(Master of Maps)
Mon Nov 01 2004 09:31 PM
Healthcare

As a small business owner I can say without reservation that the cost of healthcare is out of control. I don't believe we should have a social health system, but we really need some creative solutions brought to the center isle and discussed.

A couple of years ago I had to make a decision; provide healthcare or reinvest the capital in the business for future growth. Fortunately, the tax cut we received allowed us to do both for the past two years. Now everyone has healthcare and our business has doubled in size.

That's a great story, BUT neither party has done much to make sure healthcare is available to all Americans. It's incredibly unfair to blame GWB (4 years in D.C.) for this when it has been a problem all my life. Seems Kerry (20+ years in D.C.) has been in Washington longer, along with Kennedy (30+ years in D.C.), and has had time to address this issue. It's a sad day in politics when the only time a seasoned politician focuses on what we need most is when he or she is pointing out what is wrong and then pointing out who to blame it on. Tsk... Tsk.

While we're at it, how is it even possible for one man and his Administration to destroy the U.S. economy in just 4 years. A cursory review of the past 4 years reveals corporate scandal (clearly GWB's fault), the attack on 9/11 (let's blame that on him too!), a shallow recession was already underway when GWB took office, (but let's hang that around his neck also). Not possible. The President doesn't create jobs. Neither does Congress. These two branches of our government are charged with creating and protecting an environment in which free markets of commerce can thrive and you and I can find gainful employment. I'm not an apologist for the mistakes of this Administration and yes President Bush has angered me at times, but to blame the sitting president for your lot in life seems unfair and uninformed.

Clearly there are countless real issues for the Democrats to go after a sitting Republican President on. Why push such opaque and nebulous issues?

I look forward to meaningful debate and opposing viewpoints.


LI Phil
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 09:41 PM
Re: Healthcare

I too, am angered for the cost of healthcare, but at least some of the blame can squarely placed on the shoulders of Trial Lawyer's like John Edwards and his lot. Frivilous lawsuits have been driving up the cost of insurance like mad...and are prehaps the single biggest factor in the increase in health insurance...

Hillary Clinton attempted to shove universal health care down the American people's throats and her actions in 1994 cost her party it's control of congress...

Want to know why there's a flu vaccine shortage??? US pharmaceutical company's won't make the stuff anymore...they're afraid of class action lawsuits!!!

You want cheaper healthcare...support tort reform!


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 09:57 PM
Re: Healthcare


I have too many times been angered with GWB's choices but I don't feel he wasn't a good president. " With power comes responsibility"and if GWB has power then he should have responsibility over mistakes made. I do agree with you on the Lawyer issue, much of the area is corrupted with scandal and fraud but I don't feel that is affecting the dispersion of Flu shots. The reason why lawyers nowadays are corrupted is mainly because of dinero. They could care less about helping people ;at least some of them, all they want is money. I feel we have made a little error in that area of the justice department, and should be changed. Something like this would work but I’m sure it would be full of holes. The amount of money given to the lawyer should depend on the level of court not how much money the victim can throw at you. Just a thought...


SkeetoBiteAdministrator
(Master of Maps)
Mon Nov 01 2004 10:07 PM
Re: Healthcare

Quote:


if GWB has power then he should have responsibility over mistakes made....




Specifically?
Quote:


I feel we have made a little error in that area of the justice department, and should be changed. Something like this would work but I’m sure it would be full of holes. The amount of money given to the lawyer should depend on the level of court not how much money the victim can throw at you. Just a thought...




Florida has a Proposal to limit the amount trial lawyers can receive. Too long to go into great detail here, but if this passes, it will be a good day for consumers in Florida.


LI Phil
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 10:10 PM
Re: Healthcare

What you are describing is a form of tort reform...there are many ways to achieve this, including, but not limited to:

If a lawsuit is deemed frivilous, the party bringing about the suit must pay the costs of the defendant.

Limit (or cap) awards juries can award and/or permit the judge to reduce (or raise) awards.

Limit (or cap) awards period.

Limit the contingency fee for the plaintiff's lawyer. Most lawyers will take your case "for free" and if they/you win, they take 33% of your settlement. Force the limit to be a mere 5%, and you'll get rid of half the lawsuits in a heartbeat.

Restrict industry-breaking class action suit settlements. Crippling an industry, even for horrible wrongs, does not promote growth and costs everyone more down the road.

Again, these are just a few examples of tort reform. They'll never pass Congress though...why? Most legislators are also lawyers! Where else can you write the laws that you also play by! Great work if you can get it.



Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 10:23 PM
Re: Healthcare

Well to be specific let's go with the obvious the whole Iraq thing, it will which will scar us for some time and not living up to what was expected of him, to sum it. He was mediocre he wasn't amazing and he wasn't horrible. Many felt that he had a road to presidency that was much easier the others, being the son of a president; it really helps with becoming a president if you haven't realized. Before he was elected I had a bad feeling that he would get involved in the whole middle east thing, he did, and you would think he wouldn't fall into the same trap his father did. But hid did, and there’s nothing to do about it but to wait, and care for it until it heals.

LI Phil
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 10:37 PM
Re: Healthcare

>>> Before he was elected I had a bad feeling that he would get involved in the whole middle east thing, he did, and you would think he wouldn't fall into the same trap his father did. But hid did, and there’s nothing to do about it but to wait, and care for it until it heals.

Keith, what are they teaching you in the schools these days?

First of all, the "Iraq mess"??? Go back and read all the quotes posted yesterday by democrats regarding the need to disarm Saddam...they all, including JFK, felt there were WMD in Iraq...don't blame the President for that.

Second of all, you had a feeling he'd get involved in this middle east thing...every President since Carter has been involved in the Middle East in one way or another...I guess 9/11 didn't hit close enough to home for you? Those rat bastids attacked us on our soil and you thought we weren't going to fight back???? Even sKerry keeps SAYING he will hunt down and kill Osama...I may not agree with his politics, but I have no doubt he loves America slightly more than the middle east.

Third, Bush the senior did make one mistake regarding Saddam. That was the decision NOT to finish the job by marching straight into Baghdad when we had the chance. Would have saved us a whole bunch of trouble down the road...might even have prevented 9/11.

Go look into Kerry's "war" record and his subsequent VVAW activities...which bordered on treason! How many of his "Band of Brothers" support him? ONE! Look how many veterans groups are opposed to Kerry!!!! And it's not like Kerry is facing a friggin 20 Star General (for Skeet ).

Look how many anti-Kerry websites are out there...a number of which are NOT for President Bush, but vehemently OPPOSED to JFK. Go read up on Kerry's activities following Viet Nam...

Trust me, you do not want this man for CIC.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 10:52 PM
Re: Healthcare

Don't worry, I can't vote anyway. Not much along this topic but I do have a debate class...I'm not saying to not fight back but keep a cool head, don't go blowing one city after another and killing the innocent. How would you like it if the KKK or some other radical organization came and blew up a huge gathering of a race they hated in a differnent country. Then that country came over hear and bombed every city to the ground and subsequently missed them by 20 min's. I don't know about you but I wouldn't like that country that much anymore. You got to look at it from the perspective from the down up sometimes.

LI Phil
(User)
Mon Nov 01 2004 10:57 PM
Troops & Civilians

Most Iraq's are enjoying their new found freedom. The US and UK (Thanks Tony B! Shout out to James88 & Byett) have been very methodical in their undertakings. There have, and will always be civilian casualties, but very little of it has been because of US "mistakes". There are still a few "cells" (about half of which are from countries' outside of Iraq) who are aligned with radical leaders seeking to undermine US peace keeping efforts. These are soldiers of fortune, hired guns, merceneries...they are the ones who are hunting down and killing Iraqi citizens; they are the ones who ambushed the 50 or so Iraqi soldiers and murdered them, execution style. They are the ones who capture foreigners working to help rebuild Iraq and who they decapitate on video, conveniently smuggled to Al-Jeezera tv.

We will win this war, it will not happen overnight. The first free Iraqi elections are scheduled for January, and the fanatics are doing everything they can to disrupt that as well. They do not want freedom, justice and democracy...to them that is an anathma worse than Communism was to us.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Mon Nov 01 2004 11:36 PM
Re: Troops & Civilians

I wouldn't speak for the Iraq people, they don't seem to happy to me, although you can't really tell if their happy or angry.

SkeetoBiteAdministrator
(Master of Maps)
Tue Nov 02 2004 12:15 AM
Re: Troops & Civilians

Quote:

I wouldn't speak for the Iraq people, they don't seem to happy to me, although you can't really tell if their happy or angry.




If you find yourself wondering how the Iraqis feel, just dig up any one of the 300,000 bodies that were murdered by Hussien and ask them how they feel. Better yet, ask any one of their surviving relatives.

The debate on Iraq has been had. Everyone involved in the decision to enter Iraq, including the filthy lying John Kerry agreed that Hussien needed to go.

How can you agree with Kerry, when he agreed with Bush, but then didn't agree with Bush because he was going to run against Bush. Now he has to lie and distort a record, video tapes and other recordings of himself supporting the war.

Anyone who doesn't see this is blinded by ignorance or in complete denial. It's really that simple. Twenty years of no action whatsoever to protect Americans, no action or bills to provide meaningful legislation reforming healthcare, not a single bill to help the "common man" (as he puts it). What the hell are you voting for? Sounds more like a vote against Bush than a vote for Kerry.

Folks need to think this through.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Tue Nov 02 2004 12:30 AM
Re: Troops & Civilians

Frist of all, I want to change the current president, it's time for a change, that's why we have elections every four years. And secondly as yeah, right said "If two people agreed on everything, one person would not be necessary."

LI Phil
(User)
Tue Nov 02 2004 12:29 AM
Lets take a poll

Does anyone else feel completely disgusted that before sKerry made any public comments on the OBL tape, he took a poll to judge how he should react? This guy wants to be president?

It's like how Dukakis responded to Bernard Shaw during the 1988 debates:

Shaw: "If Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?"

Dukakis: "No, Bernard, I don't. I don't think it's a deterrent...yadayadayada."

If someone asked me if someone had just raped and murdered my wife, whether I wouldn't want that sumbeatch dead, boiled alive, stoned and beaten, and then have his head cut off, that I would say NO!

sKerry has no conviction, no gumption, no honor...he'll say and do anything to get elected, including calling for a poll to judge how he should react to the Osama tape.

This is, unfortunately, NOT an isolated incident...this is John Forbes Kerry's entire career!


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Tue Nov 02 2004 01:34 AM
Found this Interesting

It's from the homeland securtiy bill. Terrorism is only terrorism if it is against the United States, right?. Any violent crime is now defined as terrorism, whether someone is injured or not.




278
H.L.C.
(2) ACT OF TERRORISM.-(A) The term ''act of terrorism'' means any act that the Secretary deter- mines meets the requirements under subparagraph
(B), as such requirements are further defined and specified by the Secretary.
(B) REQUIREMENTS.-An act meets the requirements of this subparagraph if the act-
(i) is unlawful; 8
(ii) causes harm to a person, property, or entity, in the United States, or in the case of a domestic United States air carrier or a United States-flag vessel (or a vessel based principally in the United States on which United States income tax is paid and whose insurance coverage is subject to regulation in the United States), in or outside the United States; and
(iii) uses or attempts to use instrumentalities, weapons or other methods designed or in- tended to cause mass destruction, injury or other loss to citizens or institutions of the United States.


LI Phil
(User)
Tue Nov 02 2004 01:40 AM
Re: Found this Interesting

What the f--- does this have to do with Kerry taking a poll before he makes a statement on Osama? We'll debate the merits of this post after you answer my question...

Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Tue Nov 02 2004 01:47 AM
Re: Lets take a poll

I don't know what Kerry was thinking but then again I don't have to agree with everything he say's. He's trying to cover himself, which he shouldn't be doing. One thing that I agree with you.

LI Phil
(User)
Tue Nov 02 2004 01:55 AM
Re: Found this Interesting

>>> Any violent crime is now defined as terrorism, whether someone is injured or not.

It would seem to me that if a crime is violent, someone is injured...then again, like Bubba, I'm not sure what the definition of "is" is...


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Tue Nov 02 2004 12:56 PM
Re: Found this Interesting

The point is that why would you define terrorism as any attack in the U.S. So if my next door neighbor decided to kill me, that would be a form of terrorism?


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