Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 07 2002 06:10 PM
Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

Tropical Depression Fay has died out over Texas, and the tropics elsewhere remain active, yet so does shear.

Tropical Depression 7 has formed in the Central Atlantic (fairly far north), and heading northwest. Not a threat to land.

Other areas include a wave in the eastern Atlantic that faces a great deal of shear, nevertheless development is possible.

FInally an area in the southern Bahamas can be considered the most immediate potential headache. It has fairly good potential for development over the next few days, I don't expect this one to move fast. Shear exists in the area too, and lightens up a tiny bit later on this weekend.

NRL Monterey Marine Meteorology Division Forecast Track of Active Systems (Good Forecast Track Graphic and Satellite Photos)

NASA GHCC Interactive Satellite images at:
North Atlantic Visible (Daytime Only), Infrared, Water Vapor

Some forecast models:
NGM, AVN, MRF, ETA ECMWF

DoD Weather Models (NOGAPS, AVN, MRF)
AVN, ECMWF, GFDL, MM5, NOGAPS, UKMET

Other commentary at Mike Anderson's East Coast Tropical Weather Center, Accuweather's Joe Bastardi, Hurricane City, Gary Gray's Millennium Weather, Barometer Bob's Hurricane Hollow, Snonut, Ed Dunham and Jason M in our Storm Forum Even more on the links page.
- [mike@flhurricane.com]


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 07 2002 06:40 PM
Hey Kevin...

>>training bands haven't been all that numerous there as some have said here. Somebody will get waterlogged bigtime...but it doesn't look like Houston.

They got lucky. When the main blob of convection moved into the UT Coast, there were three or four trainig lines that didn't stay with the system. The main feed is east of me. The moral is that Fay could have been disasterous if she was tapping her moisture from closer in. As it was, there are three 18-20" spots, and at least 1 20+ just offshore. Coastal TX residents should consider themselves pretty lucky.

Steve


ShawnS
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 07 2002 07:18 PM
Scott & Steve

Scott, one suggestion, before you get on here and pat yourself on the back, AGAIN, try and learn how to spell the cities correctly.... it is GALVESTON, not GALVESTIN. My gosh, it's even on the front page of this site for you.


Steve, we may not be done with the rain after all. I've seen some of the local mets who say all the stuff in the gulf right now, which some of it is remains of our buddy Eddie, could roll in here tonight and tomorrow. I'm not buying it just yet, but I guess it could happen.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 07 2002 08:52 PM
Hey Scott

You said earlier this week this TC near the bahamas was gonna head west across the Florida peninsula under the huge ridge, then into the GOM. I'm disappointed. Steve H. PS: WHat happened to the ridge?

Cycloneye
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 07 2002 09:33 PM
97L will be the biggest threat to the US

This developing system will be if all conditions are right a cane but I am jumping so quick on a system that is not even classified but all signs point for that.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 07 2002 10:03 PM
Bastardi on the GOM..

LATE SATURDAY PM POST: GHOST OF EDOUARD TO UNLOAD ON SE TEXAS: The system over the central gulf is along a wave axis that would, if one tracked the movement of Edouard, find it is very close to where Edouard pressure fall axis will be. The rapid disappearance of Fay without much of a whimper is leaving room for this system to cause, at the very least, more rain problems for southeast Texas than Fay did.
As of 5 pm no low has developed but winds are turning to the east on the northwest gulf coast and are southwest in the western gulf. The upper ridge awaits so at the very least, the divergence aloft and low level pressure trof argue for a major southeast Texas rain event. If the system can slow, it will have a chance to develop, since Faye will be dead and buried by tomorrow morning and was a hybrid.

Interesting

Houstontracker


HanKFranK
(User)
Sun Sep 08 2002 01:31 AM
late day stuff

back from the ribber. no sunburn, yaay. too many girls, bigger yaay.
saw that gulf convergence even before reading bastardi.. was wowed.. read bastardi and am now pondering the possiblities. though not extremely likely, something could develop under the upper high, not west of it as fay did. probably a half measure feature like fay.. but i dunno..
maybe all those model runs making gulf trouble had something realisitic in mind after all..
well they went and upped 95L to td7.. good job nhc. it isnt intensifying in a hurry.. actually looks like crap. turned back to the west today (?). well guess maybe it will do that for a while. environment not wonderful but not too horrible.. i guess it could weaken from here on in, but think it more likely it becomes a weak tropical storm and slowly moves further west.
wave south of there well defined with a good oblong rotation, but no convection. shear goes to next to nothing in about a day along its track.. but with no convection, just a wave headed into the islands.
east atlantic wave not looking terribly organized, but plenty of energy with it. there is supposedly a broad surface low with it.. should begin to show on goes 8 visibles tomorrow, until then not a very good idea what its doing.
the big story: 97L. not developing in traditional tropical fashion, may indeed be subtropical in its initial stages.. but as this sucker deepens and structures itself... which i think it should.. has a pretty good shot at becoming a hurricane. doubt all the globals are lying to me for one, and really like the look this thing has for deuce.
most of the models bring it up to the carolina coast tuesday, only a couple actually take it ashore. the rest slow it down offshore and turn it out to sea. either solution puts a system close enough to the carolinas to give the kids a holiday at the coast.
unless it slows as the ridge weakens to the north earlier this week offshore.. the ashore approach wouldnt give it sufficient time to become an intense hurricane.. so TS to moderate hurricane is the likely range of strength.
sooner this thing organizes the further west it will go.
anyway a TD and a few potential trouble spots.. one very likely and two more with decent chances.
G and H storms look pretty certain by the end of next week.
bastardi's talk about the pattern break in october-- sudden pattern shift in october correllates in time with the active span for the western carib.. undulating ridge/troughs eastern u.s. tend to stir things up down there. so maybe another good hurricane in mid/late october in the western carib coming north this year.. thats out there. just a chump guess if it verifies anyway.
okay, quitting analysis. why dont i just make short to the point posts like every sane person on here?? stuff is so under my skin.
by the way not too hard on scottsvb. knock him for being haughty yes, definitely, but not for having totally unsound ideas.. he did see trouble brewing down there early on, and did bet on it having a westward component. can't discredit the entirety of his foresight. away from the microscope he had the right general idea. took it too far yes, but thats a matter of interpretation.. you can hate the gfdl for inventing fake storm tracks and have to admit it may see too much trouble, but that it doesnt often not see it coming. decent analogy. better be ok to have only a clue, 'cause i NEVER seem to hit the nail without taking a few whacks at it.. nor does anyone else. including the expert/official sources.
ok ill shut the ---- up. applause.
HF 0127z08september


troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Sep 08 2002 02:24 AM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

Ok I know the gfdl is infamous for exagerating storms or future storms but take a look at the 18 z
http://www.essc.psu.edu/rhart-cgi-bin/gfdltc2.cgi?time=2002090718-seven07l&field=Sea+Level+Pressure&hour=Animation

right on the heels of the sytem aroun dthe Bahamas is not one but 2 systems in a row originating off the tip off Florida.

Kinda weird check it out just for kicks!


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sun Sep 08 2002 03:00 AM
Bahamian system

Tonight I'm just going to go into detail about what I think the Bahamian system could do.

I'd like to start by saying that I don't believe the low is going to form at 30N. That looks WAY to far north...seems as if it could develop at around 25N. We'll see what recon says tomorrow if they go out there. The track is dependant on the intensity in a high manner. We are still clueless about the intensity for now. The possibilities are (not in any order or probability):
1. System develops around 30N as models suggest and develops to near minimal hurricane strength. Brushes or briefly makes landfall along coastal North Carolina.
2. System develops rapidly along 25N and recurves as a category 3 or greater. Bothers no one directly.
3. System develops slowly around 25N, begins to curve NW but misses trough (like Edouard) and recurves towards anywhere from Melbourne, Florida to Savanah, Georgia. Makes landfall as a strong cat 1 or borderline cat 2.

It should be noted that this year the "home grown" storms have had a habit of near-missing or totally missing trough connections.

My final word (for now): If this thing develops a low center near 30N, a threat from NC northward seems likely. A slow developer near 25N and, well, I hope Edouard was a good drill for Floridians because this might just be the real thing given proper location and intensity of the system. We'll know a LOT more by later tomorrow. Even the NWS in Melbourne said, "Forecast is totally up in the air after Monday". All interests from EC of Florida to North Carolina need to keep a very close eye to their south and east.

I believe this will recieve the name "Gustav" if it goes tropical. "Gustav"...kinda sounds a little scary like Georges.

Kevin


HanKFranK
(User)
Sun Sep 08 2002 03:24 AM
Re: Bahamian system

sounds.... french

*shudder*

by the way fay is hooking around sw inland.. a bit north of cotulla, tx. got the SW bit right. woo hoo. now watch it turn back to the west.

HF 0320z08september


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sun Sep 08 2002 03:52 AM
Actually...

"Gustav" is Bavarian in it's origin if I am correct. Hey...my local met is a complete idiot though. Said that TD7 should be our first cane. What an ass...there shouldn't even be advisories on this thing. Pressure at 1016 and barely any convection. Yeah...that'll be a hurricane when the next Ice Age comes.

Still watching to see what Bahamas will do. Guess I'll see how it looks in the morning.

Kevin


troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Sep 08 2002 03:57 AM
Re: Actually...

Kevin

which staion?? On the subject of Orlando wx people
there really hasnt been an animated weather guy since Danny Trainor. And he had to um, resign


HanKFranK
(User)
Sun Sep 08 2002 04:37 AM
Re: Actually...

hey, give td 7 a little credit. hung on as an invest for five days before being classified, and upstream im not so sure about what conditions it will meet. possibly support as there is a split in the flow ahead, one jet tailing the receding central atlantic trough into that sharp trough in the east atlantic.. and the other hooking around to the sw into the caribbean. could provide diffluent support (though i admit this is not likely).
nuff about the td. other things:
1) 97L putting up some deeper convection on the last pics. presentation isnt improving in a huge hurry, but it has improved a lot since saturday morning. this of course could be our bavarian storm tomorrow.. (german names in the atlantic basin??)
2) gulf disturbance convection on the slide from earlier.. convergent surge supporting has weakened. inland with fay i get this strange idea it might develop a new feeder band off the gulf and start tracing it back SE... seems really off the wall but for some reason it wont leave my mind.
3) the much mentioned wave off africa.. there is a low level swirl that ran out ahead, shows up well even on IR2. think this is the low formerly associated with the wave. lot of subsidence out there.. and i think the high amp trough in the far east atlantic sheared its convection away. tempted to say.. so much for that. but it is a fairly energetic feature for sure.
4) mjo graphic is showing a positive anomaly patch that has developed over the atlantic. might bring our activity burst to an end, or just be a flub. shear has become quite a bit more pronounced over the last week or so.
HF 0431z08september


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 06:30 AM
Re: Scott & Steve

sorry about typo shawn. I'm always very busy and just rush thru these reports and dont have time to check out my spelling which im sure is pretty bad. On that note dont jump on me cause of the typo bit,, you cry so much in here it seems you must be only 8. I loved weather at that age too. I just want to say every little cloud in the gulf wont always become a storm, you seem to always ask that. Anyways sorry about going off, kinda pist about bashing me on a spelling note, i notice alot of sps on others but i dont critize anyone on that note.
On the system off the bahamas yes I did say that i expected it to form there and then move thru N florida into the gulf, upper level flow hasnt developed as expected last week. Now only a modest movement to the w is expected then off to the north which i also agreed with others in here on over the last 2 days now. Anyways still having a hard time seeing if a system will develop over near S florida and move NNE. Time will tell on that too. sorry again for any typos in this and the future.
scottsvbhurricaneupdatecenter BTW shawn I am a Met.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 06:45 AM
Re: Scott & Steve

center seems to be forming near 26.2N and 74.5W to the sw of the center of the upperlow. Though the low level center is alittle further south then what the models forcasted, as always in a early stages, many vortexs are spinning about.
scottsvb


troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Sep 08 2002 06:47 AM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

scott typos arent such a bad thing.I am dyslexic so i reverse words all the time Just glad you arent my accountant with that typing
but it may explain why the gfdl is allways way off


57497479
(Weather Master)
Sun Sep 08 2002 01:19 PM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

Gosh you guys are so funny! You helped to wake me up this Sunday morning. I had to laugh as I was reading your post and sipping my coffee. lol lol
Re. the SW Bahamas situation:
If the llc is farther S. than what the models are saying, and it just sits there for a while I don't think that it is unreasonable to at least have a possible W track across Fl.The trough may have very little influence on it OR it may just miss the trough altogether. Pinwheel Toni


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 01:56 PM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

fay looks to be coming back to the gulf

57497479
(Weather Master)
Sun Sep 08 2002 02:14 PM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

Could the models be picking up on the ghost of Fay? Just looking at the new runs. Most of the models are indicating some new activity in the GOM. Pinwheel Toni

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 02:23 PM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

this couid be i just seen the models they show a storm coming across the gulf will it be fay i think so were will she go and will she be the first h please give feedback

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 02:46 PM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

I agree with Hank, for the most part...the LOW off the SE coast looks subtropical. Upper-level analyses show that it's directly east of a trough, on the divergent side, a location where wave cyclones frequently form. Compound that with its vague comma-like appearance, and the case for it being subtropical is substantial. Nevertheless, it may become tropical later. If it forms, I'm think it will do the typical recurvature thing, and not hit the East Coast.

Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Sun Sep 08 2002 02:48 PM
TD #8 has been Initialized

NHC has started bulletins on Subtropical Depression #8 - see Storm Forum.
Cheers,
ED


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 04:15 PM
Re: TD #8 has been Initialized

Fay back from the dead? It sure looks like she's stalled out to me. Every 00 model missed the NC coast with eventual Gustav. I don't have a call one way or the other.

But can someone either please send me some sunshine or some tropical weather? It's been cloudy here for days and days and days. And while we've had intermittant drizzle and an occasional band run through, it's mostly been just east or west and south of here.

Steve


ShawnS
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Sep 08 2002 04:25 PM
Steve

What do you think the chances are of Fay making it back into the gulf and redeveloping? Joe B. seems to be quite worried about it. If, and that is a BIG IF, this were to happen than I think it would head more on an easterly path. The problem here is that the locations that got the almost twenty inches of rain a couple of days ago could see even more in the next few days. Didn't we go through this same kind of ordeal last year with another female by the name of Allison?!?!?

HanKFranK
(User)
Sun Sep 08 2002 04:39 PM
everything

idea that fay might backtrack has only to do with the tendency for a tropical cyclone center to develop towards its support, and for climo on texas systems to move inland and behave erratically. since there isnt much to steer the system, im guessing it could do it.. but there isnt any kind of clear push back like the one allison had.
there is also the tendency for models wanting to maintain unsettled weather in the gulf.. guess that plays in with the whole idea too.
subtd 8.. close up visibles are showing lots of small vortices pinwheeling around. system is getting a better deep-system proflie as strong atmospheric lifting is generating these. still awkwardly organized, but expecting hurricane hunter to find gale force winds already, when it gets in there in a couple hours. as for track.. something new finally appeared in the runs.. one of the ukmet ones wants to phase it in and takes it very close to cape cod. stands out among the various NE buttonhook solutions. some models are making subtd 8 a very intense cyclone, by the way.
td 7.. looks for the worse. only little catch here is that an upstream shear-friendly environment exists.. but by then expect the low to be disorganized and just a chunky piece of inflow for what should be gustav at that point.. to digest.
wave near 35w.. very low amplitude but quite energetic. upper winds are becoming less favorable in the east atlantic though.. and lots of subsidence. just have to see how well the considerable amt of convection can hold on.
so likely tropical system moving towards the carolinas early week, possibly up the coast. various models want to maintain disturbed weather in the gulf.
td 7 weakened or maintained as a weak feature.
wave that went into the islands this morning well defined but convectionless.. unimportant now.
a couple more energetic waves to come off africa this week.
thats the way things stand right now.
HF 1631z08september


57497479
(Weather Master)
Sun Sep 08 2002 04:47 PM
Re: Steve

Well Steve, we don't have any tropical weather at this time so it looks like I will have to send you sunshine. It is a beautiful day in the St. Pete area. We have had some pretty wicked rains in the afternoon hours though.

Looks like the remains of Fay may be breathing again, the models are picking up on some energy in the GOM and wants to take it into FL. latter in the forcast period. Still a little early to count on it, but I guess the possibility is there. What are your thoughts???? Pinwheel Toni


Mary K.
(Weather Guru)
Sun Sep 08 2002 05:45 PM
Re: everything

The way I see things is that Fay is a used to was and we have a wet thingy in the eastern Atlantic that does not yet know what it wants to be when it grows up. The politics on this one might kill us all. (lol)

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 06:35 PM
Hey HF...

That would be 2 out of 3 for GFDL. It called (with the wrong intensity) the path of Edouard before any other model and it's been predicting a pinwheel/fujiwara for 4 straight days now.

Wow.

Steve


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 06:59 PM
Thanks for the Band!

Edouard's not done yet. It's temporarily howling here.

Steve


ShawnS
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Sep 08 2002 07:10 PM
Re: Thanks for the Band!

I know we got the other systems out there, but I'm most concerned with the remains of both Fay and Eddie. I don't know what to make of the situation that is going on right now. It looks like Fay's center is not moving even though there has been talk of it moving back towards the coast. The activity in the gulf looks like it is more feeder bands from the circulation of Fay, but I know that Eddie is out there , somewhere.I'm not sure what all this means for us here in southeast Texas and what the chances are of Fay moving back over the water. I need some help on this one. I do have to say that Fay has kept her circulation quite nicely,though. I also noticed that at last report she still had a pressure down around 1006 with winds of 20 mph. If she did somehow make it back over the water, I don't think it would take much for her to get going again. What I do know is that the local radar here is full of activity right now.

Cycloneye
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Sep 08 2002 08:39 PM
Gustav and tropical wave in atlantic

Will this subtropical storm be pure tropical is the question as time goes by?

By the way the wave in the atlantic has more attention from the TPC as it has been mentioned at the TWO so let's see what the wave will do but right now it is fighting the shear and the trough in the area.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/MIATWOAT.html


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sun Sep 08 2002 11:25 PM
Gulf of Mexico

Have you guys notice the pressure falls in the gulf. I think we may be in for round 2. Barry B

HanKFranK
(User)
Mon Sep 09 2002 12:07 AM
policy

remember how a year ago the nhc decreed that atlantic to pacific basin crossers would retain their names? well seems like theyre just going to use normal names for subtropical systems now, as the title 'sutropical storm gustav' is being used instead of subtrop 1. recon got a flight level temp of 23C.. note if that rises when they drop the subtrop title. pretty close to warm core if i'm not mistaken, in spite of the loose structure with all the entrained subsidence.
by the way, when all that subsidence is pressed out, watch how quickly gustav will deepen. also, globals are in good agreement on track.. so far theyve had a good handle on gustav, so the coast nip and out has good credibility. now the question is: are they under forecasting the ridge with gustav pumping it? the recurvature has been getting less sharp on all, have to see if the track keeps bending closer to the NE. bastardi calls the gulf a 'headache'. fay hasnt done much besides rain itself out, not moving much just north of cotulla texas. same place it was 20 hours ago. convergence over the gulf is being called the 'edouard ghost'... i dont necessarily think of it that way. there isnt any real focal point to it or pressure min.. sort of at the whim of whatever the low level winds are doing more synoptically. havent seen any sizable pressure falls, so not like something is about to pop. its just wait and see if anything tries to focus energy.
td 7 remnants still spinning and throwing a little convection. if it still has its definition tomorrow, the shear will have improved signifcantly.. if not it will just entrain in gustav. this little feature strikes me as a survivor, as edouard was.
east atlantic wave/low shrouded in mystery. very convective, but low cloud movement tells of a broad, e-w elongated circulation. lots of subsidence upstream, and upper air winds less than ideal, though not in killer mode. no hurry to develop here, pretty definitely not going to try recurving early.
recap, gustav is the big story, fay is still pesky, td 7 probably done but not for certain.. and an energetic wave in the east atlantic with an abnormal presentation.
fin.
HF 0002z09september


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 12:20 AM
Re: policy

check this out gulf coasters 120hrs http://hurricane.essc.psu.edu/cgi-bin/45km.cgi?time=2002090800-MANUAL1&field=Sea+Level+Pressure&hour=Animation

HanKFranK
(User)
Mon Sep 09 2002 12:44 AM
another dose

you like what the link above shows? here's another one:
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis
look at the 18z avn runs from day 3 to day 6.
this is of course gobbledegook, but we have disturbed weather there.. and some models are for some reason triggering a low (and you know what low in the gulf in september means) south of louisiana.
HF 0037z09september


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 12:48 AM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

Hi, I have been a "lurker" here for a couple of years now, really enjoy all the post.
I live in Friendswood TExas, and this Fay has me kinda worried. I keep hearing that she will come back toward the coast. REminds me of Allison . I really don't want to go thru that again! I guess what I'm asking is, could someone please tell me what (if anything) we can expect down here? It would really ease my mine a little bit. Thanks!


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 12:52 AM
Re: another dose

Oh no HankFrank -

Thats not good for the AL coast either.

Southern


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 01:17 AM
Re: another dose

looks like FORT MEYERS IN 6 DAYS

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 01:30 AM
Re: Steve

the gulf has been stormy for days something will go there or fay will come out we will see but looks good

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 01:38 AM
Re: Steve

look south at the bay if that gets in the gulf look out

troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Sep 09 2002 02:21 AM
Re: Fay Dies, TD#7 Forms

could the convection building over the yucitan be the low that the avn and gfdl sees headiing toward the upper Gulf?

enquiring minds want to know...


57497479
(Weather Master)
Mon Sep 09 2002 02:24 AM
Re: another dose

After viewing several of the panels within days 6-8 looks like any where from N Central down to S Central Fl might be in for some more tropical weather. FYI the GFDL model has a system headed for the Alabama/ Florida border with in that time frame . Looks like the Gulf may be a busy place for a while. One of the panels looks like the wave train comming off of Africa. I believe that most of the tropical action this year will continue to form on our back door step. Toni

57497479
(Weather Master)
Mon Sep 09 2002 02:51 AM
Re: Steve

OH MY GOSH!!! Looks like real trouble to me. Haven't really looked at the loops lately, have been busy watching the BUCS game.
This area(BOC) certainly needs to be watched. Everyone along the Gulf Coast needs to start keeping a very close watch on what is going on in the GOM. Toni


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 02:59 AM
Re: Steve

Aint that the truth !!! something gonna happen there

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 03:11 AM
Re: Steve

that thing in the bay the last few frames has made the cloud field all around it turn and run from it not its storms but the ones around it this thing looks up to no good can it make it thew the next 12 hours it looks real strong

57497479
(Weather Master)
Mon Sep 09 2002 03:29 AM
Re: Steve

Are there any buoys located close to the BOC? The closest that I could find would be 42002 southeast sabine TX. The BP was 29.85. Toni

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 03:54 AM
Hey 574...

Don't hang your head too low over the Bucs/Saints game. The better team won , but the game was one for the ages.

Here's to a great rivalry and in the face of any doubters of the power that lies within the NFC South!

Scary stuff on those model links. We're going to have to see what their trends are this week.

Steve


57497479
(Weather Master)
Mon Sep 09 2002 04:17 AM
Re: Hey 574...

Well what can I say..... The BUCS actually handed the Saints their Big Win. I have big shoulders though, I can take it.
LOL Toni


HanKFranK
(User)
Mon Sep 09 2002 02:39 PM
this week

gustav slowing down a little this morning, looking more organized. recon found a 1002 pressure and flight level max temp at 19C.. cooler than last night. but, with slowing speed, better outflow structure, high oceanic heat content.. gustav should begin to intensify at a greater pace later today. right now if it crosses any land i'm thinking only carteret/hyde/dare counties.. but gale force winds might start at myrtle beach and eventually be felt as far up the coast as nantucket. think it will bomb out as it phases, intensify as it becomes extratropical later this week.
td 7.. written off but surely too soon. slowed down and now emerging from that nasty jet stream, convection returning. the low level structure is nowhere near as defined as before, but as it drifts west and north it will probably slowly reorganize.
fay.. the low level remnant is now near laredo, bending southward. a pulse from its mid level low kicked convection on the texas coast.. now pressures are down near 1008mb off padre island.. comparable with the lowest pressures at the old low/mid level center. this could represent an attempt for fay to reform on the coast... or just a new system altogether. if something develops here it will be interesting to see if the nhc calls it fay, or something new.
central gulf convection returning for the day... this is where avn/nogaps/cmc are now saying an eastward moving low develops and heads for west florida. with gustav slowing the easterlies it will continue as a convergent environment.. but whether the gulf trouble comes to be here or back near texas.. or at all.. remains to be seen.
interestingly outside of gustavs envelope in the bahamas is another burst of convection.. convergence with upper support.. only noticed because gfdl kept making little storms that whipped up around gustav out of this area.
east atlantic.. wave midway across amplitude up a little, still a broad longitudinal axis of turning. convection healthy in spite of subsidence.. shear lessening. enough models are following this to give it consideration, though not any better organized.
east of there another wave/mid level spin is off africa, some convection, just south of the cape verdes. bastardi talking about the setup for a long tracked storm.. so watching this area though not seeing anything overtly threatening.
basin remains active with old systems threatening to redevelop and possibly a new one somewhere in the cards too.. though none for certain.
HF 1435z09september


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 04:40 PM
Interesting Houston Forecast disc...

SOUTHEAST TEXAS FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HOUSTON/GALVESTON TX
950 AM CDT MON SEP 9 2002

I REALLY HATE TO FLIP-FLOP LIKE THIS...BUT WE NEED TO RE-ISSUE THE
COASTAL FLOOD WATCH. HAVE SUSTAINED 20 KT EAST WINDS IN GLS BAY.
OBSERVER AT JAMAICA BEACH IS REPORTING TIDES 2.5 FEET ABOVE WHERE
THEY SHOULD BE AT THIS TIME AND WATER OVER BOAT DOCKS AND BULKHEADS.
AT LOW TIDE THIS MORNING TCOON DATA SHOWING CLEAR LAKE ENTRANCE AT
2.5 FEET ABOVE. PORTIONS OF TODDVILLE ROAD WILL BEGIN FLOODING WITH
WATER LEVELS AT 4 FEET...WHICH READINGS MAY APPROACH TONIGHT AT HIGH
TIDE. APPEARS SOME TYPE OF HYBRID SYSTEM MAY GET GOING OFF THE COAST
TUE WITH BOTH ETA AND AVN SHOWING A TIGHTENING ERLY GRADIENT. BOTTOM
LINE IS WE DON'T EXPECT THINGS TO GET ANY BETTER. MIGHT NOT HAVE A
LOT TO SPEAK OF TODAY...BUT BELIEVE THE THREAT GOES UP TONIGHT AND
TUE WITH WESTERN SHORE OF GLS BAY THE MAIN THREAT.



ShawnS
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Sep 09 2002 05:22 PM
Re: Interesting Houston Forecast disc...

All I got to say is that the gulf is a mess right now. I don't know if anything will hapeen out there but there is certainly enough moisture to work with.

andy1tom
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Sep 09 2002 05:33 PM
Re: Interesting Houston Forecast disc...

I've been looking at some of the models and alot of them are showing something going on in the gulf down around the Texas coast and then heading to Fla. (Tampa/Ft. Myers) This could be an interesting and much discussed week coming up. With the NHC changing the way they are going to call a storm a storm will the predictions go back up?

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 05:40 PM
Gustav rotating about another center?

The latest satpic loops show that the exposed center of Gustav appears to be rotating around a convective center to the sw of the vis llcc. In fact, the last few frames look as if Gustav is moving almost due west.

Anyone else see this, thoughts?

IHS,

Bill



Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 05:46 PM
NHC changed naming conventions...

These were actually announced at the (Florida) Governor's Hurricane Conference, and had been in the works for a while. Max Mayfield announced at that time that they would just name S/T storms, rather than use the alpha/bravo system or numeric designators.

Also, Max indicated that if a system was a threat near the coast they would overlook nuances, ie, same way they did with Edouard off the Fl east coast. "No unnamed storm will strike the US" was the exact quote, I believe.

He also implied (as I understood it) that even if a system transitioned from t/st to extrtatropical, that if it was near the coast, they would maintain name/warnings to insure continuity/understanding by the public that regardless of what type of storm it was, the treat was still there.

Hope this sheds light on the discussions that have been on-going here about this.

IHS,

Bill


HanKFranK
(User)
Mon Sep 09 2002 06:11 PM
close in

gustav still has a decoupled inner core. there is either one mid to low level center under the main convective burst or just a mid level center with a smaller one pinwheeling into the dry air slot. noticed that subsidence only really tends to affect tropical systems when there is shear aiding its intrusion.. in this case easterly gradient shear between the upper low to the south and the ridge to the north. as the storm slows and moves closer to the coast this should abate some.. as the ridge to the north recedes. think that gustav will begin to intensify by this evening and become a hurricane some time tuesday.. and move very close to carteret hyde and dare counties if not across them.
fay.. the low level remnant swirl is tracing i35 southwest in texas.. down near laredo now. offshore the primary feeder band is becoming a development threat. sfc obs indicating low pressures and some westerly winds on the west side of the convective line, with a strong easterly flow on the other side... and as the earlier posted discussion says, several models calling for low pressure to develop off the texas coast. personally thinking if anything comes together it will be east of brownsville. florida people, some of you are talking like it will be your problem. i doubt this.. would be unusual for a tropical system to hit central florida after forming off texas. models are likely seriously overdoing the late week amplification on/off the east coast. think it more likely a western gulf problem. but, if a low were to form in the central gulf.. then, maybe.
td 7 remnants, as bastardi mentions, not aware theyre supposed to be dead. not looking particularly good.. they got the bright idea to stall under the outflow jet from gustav (edouard exhibited this peculiar sadistic attitude). not moving west very fast, but not going away very fast either. low chances, but existent ones, that it will redevelop.
central atlantic wave.. thinking it may develop past 50w. very energetic.
HF 1805z09september


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 06:38 PM
Low off Tx not Fl threat?

HF-

I agree with you, at the same time I have to point out that there was a storm..seems like it was back in the 70s...I'll check the tracks later. Anyway, it formed off the upper TX coast, moved SW along the coast, looped counter-clockwise, then moved ene/ne to or close to the Florida panhandle. My only point, especially in this bizarre season...it COULD happen. But, as you said, not very likely.

Apparently some of the Fl folks are concerned about a development in the central Gulf..the Raleigh AFD discussion (of all places) talks about this this morning.

IHS,

Charles


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 06:50 PM
Re: Low off Tx not Fl threat?

Actually systems that are the biggest threat for West Florida are off the Yucatan or coming up from from Sw Carrib to near BOC. In fact, last major Cane to hit Tampa area I'm fairly certain came from Eastern BOC and I also believe it was in September. Not saying this is going to happen just saying if it did and coming from that direction would be worse case scenario with tidal surge. We've had a few no name or T.S. systems coming from Sw or West that have caused serious flooding problems. Wait and see.........

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 07:30 PM
Re: Low off Tx not Fl threat?

Caneman, Charles and Hank,

Actually, there ARE some climate cycles where Western Gulf cyclones do have significant West to East motion. It is an apparent shift of the Westerlies to a lower-than-typical latitude. Check out the Unisys or NHC track archives for the 1870's and you will find several "Texas to Florida" storms. Some are really W. Gulf of Mexico to FL panhandle or FL W. coast, and some are Bay of Campeche- to NW Gulf - to FL panhandle or West Coast. But they're there if you look. The 1870's may have been our busiest tropical storm decade in FL, although it was almost impossible to tell which storms were canes, and which weren't then. With this year's activity in the Gulf being a possible anamoly from long term average, and with potential changes to the familiar Islands-to-Bahamas-to Hatteras boomerang pattern, it will be interesting to see what the Gulf patterns will be over the next several years. Long range climatology seems to show that the FL West Coast may be overdue for Westerly storms, even though they have gotten Caribbean and Yucatan action off and on over the past few years.

Climate history buff


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 07:51 PM
Gustav moving west

In the meantime, it is clear that the low level exposed center is moving almost directly west over the last few hrs. I know the NHC will probably 'smooth' the motion and say wnw, but, it's there to see...ala Irene, smoothed is not the actual motion.

IHS,

Bill


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 08:13 PM
Multiple centers

There are at least three discrete 'pinwheels' in the circulation center area now, one of which is merging with another---it is just under the convective cluster to the s of the exposed llcc--these two are merging together. The expose "primary" LLCC is moving west, overall the whole system seems to be hardly moving at all. Until this gets straightened out, no significant intensification will occur.

IHS,

Bill


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Sep 09 2002 09:36 PM
Re: Interesting Houston Forecast disc...

boc there is a swirl coming off the yu same place that big red fire ball was sunday night look on the vis let me no if you see anything

Cycloneye
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Sep 09 2002 09:48 PM
Re: close in

Hi Hankfrank I will concentrate what is east of me here in PR.There are 2 waves that look active to merit some attention.The first wave has persisted the convection as it has held some as it passes the trough in the mid atlantic.Now as it gets to the 50w longitud we will see if it organizes or not.

As for the wave south of the CV islands convection has increased in the past hours but we have to wait for it to form a surface low and to see if it holds together but we are at peak time for the CV season so any of these waves may develop and I will watch from PR.


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Mon Sep 09 2002 10:27 PM
My tropical thoughts.

North Carolina is going to get a lot of weather from Gustav because of his orientation. All of the convection is on the west side, which in a few hours, could start to effect North Carolina. The folks along the Outer Banks can expect some winds to about 55 miles per hour and torrential rain starting late tonight and last through tomorrow. Storm surge of 3-5 feet higher than normal will also effect the Outer Banks. This is a big event...our first EC brush since 1999. Looks like our much touted pattern change which will bring more storms towards the EC in coming years. We'll have to see if this persists.

The wave at and slightly past 40W is BROAD. This is the only thing really inhibiting development with this system. Look for more organization over the next couple of days. I'd look for a depression to form around 50-55W.

The wave south of the Cape Verde Islands is also well organized with some strong convection with it. Slow development may occur out of this wave over the next few days.

An area of convection has been coming and going north of the Yucatan Peninsula since yesterday. This could eventually develop into something. However, timing/strength is very uncertain. This area is showing vague signs of what it might do at this point. Something to watch but not anything for sure.

Looks like a burst in Cape Verde activity and a possible GOMEX storm are the things to watch over the next week. We'll all be watching...could be another strong season occuring late.

Kevin


Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Mon Sep 09 2002 10:39 PM
Gustav Update

...has been posted in the Storm Forum.
Cheers,
ED


Rad
(Weather Guru)
Mon Sep 09 2002 10:49 PM
Caneman

True, True,........ I see you have been doing your homework ! & YES it is SEPTEMBER ! Will be watching....C-YAAA!!


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