MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Sep 20 2002 04:15 PM
Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

I have a feeling we'll be dealing with Isidore all next week, still in the gulf. Right now, literally, everyone in the Gulf from the Yucatan in Mexico to the tip of Florida Peninsula will want to eyeball this storm.

I'm leaning toward the west right now, heading dangerously close to the Yucatan. I don't expect it to make landfall however, and I could even see the system remaining in the gulf the entirety of next week. This will put emergency managers all along the coast on edge for days, and that fact itself makes it bad. Every hint of movement now must be watched. Even some of the best forecasters aren't very confident on the future path of this system. And the NHC's best guess I happen to agree with. Models and even their trends haven't been all that helpful either.

All I can say is watch it right now. Models aren't any help. Just keep watch on the system itself.

I'm back, at work, and buried in work related work, so this update will be short.

Jim Williams and Barometer bob are doing live Audio shows starting at 8PM and lasting usually to 10 or 11PM all during Isidore's run. Use the link below to check them out.

Updates will come as needed here. It will take a while for me just to catch up with everyone!

NRL Monterey Marine Meteorology Division Forecast Track of Active Systems (Good Forecast Track Graphic and Satellite Photos)

NASA GHCC Interactive Satellite images at:
North Atlantic Visible (Daytime Only), Infrared, Water Vapor

Some forecast models:
NGM, AVN, MRF, ETA ECMWF

DoD Weather Models (NOGAPS, AVN, MRF)
AVN, ECMWF, GFDL, MM5, NOGAPS, UKMET

Other commentary at Mike Anderson's East Coast Tropical Weather Center, Accuweather's Joe Bastardi, Hurricane City Weather Audio Broadcast Network - Live Audio from Jim Williams and Barometer Bob , Tropical Weather Watchers.Com (JasonM) Gary Gray's Millennium Weather, Barometer Bob's Hurricane Hollow, Snonut, Ed Dunham and Jason M in our Storm Forum Even more on the links page.

- [mac]


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 05:22 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

Hey, where did everybody go?

Cycloneye
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 20 2002 05:31 PM
While Izzy decides his next move Kyle and Lili are in the horizon

As things are looking now we may have Isidore for some days ahead but in the meantime 2 new candidates for developent are now in the spotlight.

The low pressure se of Bermuda is more organized but apparently it will be a subtropical one and a fish.

Of more concern to the islands is a tropical wave east of the windwards that looks like the conditions are better for slow organization of it. AVN likes it but If anyone knows of other models that are picking up this wave please share that info because it is important to me as I live in Puerto Rico.


Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Sep 20 2002 05:34 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

I'm still hanging. I'm guessing everyone is getting HIGHLY IRRITATED that half the web is crashed right now. NOAA loops (down); Goes 8 (unresponsive); National Data Buoy Center (slow as molasses). You can't get anything right now. As to the ULL having the effect of pulling the storm northward as some suggested in the previous thread, watch Joe B's tropical update and he'll explain why that isn't likely to happen. 6z GFDL runs it Iz towards LA/MS, still giving it that loop near onto the northern end of the YP. It's changed its shorts more time than an old lady with diarhea.

Anyway, those medium range composite models that Jason posted look fairly legitimate to me. It's one of those cases where it doesn't matter how something gets there as long as it gets there. I think a NW FL landfall is pretty reasonable considering the circumstances and season, but will that be in 3 days, 5 days, 7 days or 10 days? I can't say. However, if you look at the Long Range composites of the same models, they do "other stuff" with Izzy. You can go back and play with it should you so choose.

I gotta admit that I'm getting tired of sleeping 5 hours a night.

Steve


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 05:47 PM
Re: While Izzy decides his next move Kyle and Lili are in the horizon

can someone with an expert opinion look at the longrange Key West radar that was posted in the previous discussion on page 2. It appears that the center is moving north. Obviously most of the tools have crashed on this sight for now. I just want a second opionion.

HanKFranK
(User)
Fri Sep 20 2002 05:48 PM
the izzy sandwich

that upper low developing east of florida is about as robust as the avn forecasted it to be so far, as the nhc discussion says.. but there is enough of the old upper low to the west of izzy to hold it between the two for now. for now. now the question is, which lets go first. avn upper low maxes out by 48hr and is deteriorating into a trough.. note that avn also develops a system (probably fake) over the bahamas and sends it north next week. in the meanwhile it has also had the upper system over the BOC let go of izzy as well.. izzy is actually sort of moving wsw in tandem with it. that i dont buy. basically i think the small upper low to the west keeps enough push on isidore so that the storm slowly trudges wnw.. maybe stopping to bob around and loop, maybe even doing the cyclonic loop nogaps and gfdl have envisioned at times. by then the upper low to the east has decayed and isidore is basically just going to wait until a shortwave grabs hold. there are two that i think can do it.. the one that is going by obviously didnt get the storm.. but another is down tapping isidore by sunday.. this would bring the storm up for a tue/wed strike. i think that isidore will at least respond weakly to this shortwave. next one comes down thursday or so.. more energetic. even on the avn runs, with isidore down in the boc, the storm responds to this shortwave. i dont see this one not turning isidore up for a fri-sun next week strike, if the sun/mon one doesnt. so basically.. thats what ive got. goofy erratic motion prior to recurvature.. but still leaning on recurvature and not the mexican solution.
going to leave my strike zone on the panhandle, but extend it a little west as far as biloxi. think that florida below cedar key really is in the clear. fairly certain.
interesting that if isidore hadnt first tried running south america we would be dealing with a landfaller in florida around now. what a difference that made.
i'll take a moment to address the other atlantic features:
bastardi's little coast runner isnt what the avn wants to make down near cuba.. more likely is going to evolve west of the bahamas this weekend and be near hatteras monday. it will be a weak or formative system, nothing too impressive.
probably going to have kyle wandering east of bermuda before the weekend is out, as well. 91L looks fairly healthy.
i was probably too harsh on the wave near 40-45w. there is ridging building ahead, still fairly weak.. and it is fairly close to the itcz. this could be an invest in a couple of days... maybe something for cycloneye to ooh and ahh about. this might have its ridging build westward with it to a point.
wonder how far down the name list we'll be by the beginning of october? about two weeks ago, remember bastardi mentioning how the ridging in the east should be broken around the middle of october.. and was thinking some kind of caribbean system could threaten around that possible time of extremes.. since he usually starts on things a couple weeks before they happen.. maybe i'll get to read about it before his site becomes pay.
HF 1737z20september


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 05:50 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

LOL Steve, get some sleep. It is going to be a very long time with this one, and he isn't gonna make a sharp turn anytime soon, I don't think.

I do not remember ever a storm that was predicted to be out there for that long....and I certainly cannot say I can trust a model that puts it ashore somewhere in 240 hours. LOL its ludicrous, 240 hours! We just need to keep checking in every now and then, until it stalls...then the real watching begins.


Joe
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 20 2002 05:59 PM
Re: the izzy sandwich

Agree with expected recure that HF mentioned but I'am still sticking with landfall possibily in big bend region. Trough currently in western gulf and extending north looks impressive still. ULL looks to be holding trough back a bit. But in any case I do believe this will begin to move possibly after it does a loop in southern gulf. In any case I am sticking close to Nogaps.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:04 PM
radar

BTW, the Key West long range is really impressive....this storm is extremely large, pulling in moisture and circulating some showers as far as Orlando, with its airflow. Weather is beautiful in Miami right now, just a light breeze, and some fast-moving low clouds. Seems to me the eye is still has a western component, but it indeed may be a little more N now than earlier.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/radar/loop/DS.p20-r/si.kbyx.shtml


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:09 PM
Re: radar

sorry bret,alittle overhyped, Orlando isnt getting the winds from the circulation or Isadore, its from other factors. The outskirts of the circulation get as far up as just s of Marco Island but that is also not directly associated with the Hurricane.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:09 PM
Re: While Izzy decides his next move Kyle and Lili are in the horizon

I agree, it looks like it hit land and either stopped or is turning north.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:16 PM
Crossing Cuba

Looks like Izza has chosen the path of least resistance and is crossing Cuba at its narrowest point. At his current rate of speed and direction, he should take only 1 hr to cross the island.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:18 PM
Re: Crossing Cuba in less than an hour with cuban coffee

Better hope he doesn't have any cuban coffee..could intensify fast and make it across in 45 minutes bobbi

Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:24 PM
A note on the WSW movement...

The 12z Canadian has broken from its 3 man tag team and joined the other models. The Canadian actually takes Iz into the BoC (ala European Model). I have to wonder if the models aren't really compensatnig over the energy that is down there with the cold front.

But still, Isidore is finding her way toward the Yucata no matter what we, NHC, or anyone else speculates. Current update at 1PM CDT has her moving back due WNW (2/1) again. Funny things these storms.

Steve


Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:31 PM
Re: A note on the possible WSW movement...

03 GMT 09/20/02 21.0N 82.5W
09 GMT 09/20/02 21.3N 83.3W
15 GMT 09/20/02 21.7N 83.9W
Now: 21.8 N 84.1 W

So since 11pm last night, we've got 8/10 of a degree north, 1.6 degrees west. That's 2/1 or directly WNW. However, the eye nudged a bit west after making landfall and remains a wobbler between half way between W and WNW and due NW.

Steve


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:45 PM
Question????????

Right now Izzy is enjoying great inflow from deep in the Carrib. Will Cuba block this inflow after the cross. He has a huge influence over the Carrib. All of the Carrib from just west of PR to Central America is covered. Wow..... Does he seem to be expanding to you guys?

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:46 PM
Re: While Izzy decides his next move Kyle and Lili are in the horizon

Look at this NRL pic of the Tropics at 1745z...
http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/sat-bin/display10?SIZE=full&PHOT=yes&AREA=atlantic/tropics&PROD=ir&TYPE=ssmi&NAV=tropics&ARCHIVE=Latest&CGI=tropics.cgi&CURRENT=20020920.1745.goes-8.ir.x.trop.x.jpg&MOSAIC_SCALE=15

At this trend, seems we will be way down in the name list by mid-October. Cycloneye, your wave at around 40W is looking healthier with time.

cc


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:48 PM
Havana Radar Loop

Take a look!

http://www.met.inf.cu/radar.asp

IHS,

Bill


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:51 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

Again, good asssessment Hank. Though I wouldn't say all clear for anybody, including central Florida. Yes the Canadian threw in the towel and has the storm in the western GOM/BOC. Maybe Shawn will get some wind!! But I fell tht it may be the trough later next week that gets him. If this is the case, then it may be a strong won that pushes him NE or even ENE depending on where he is. If he's at 23N north of the Yucatan, he could still strike central Florida. This is based on the presumption that Izzy is still in the GOM south of 25N and hasn't run to the west or north central GOM states. Other than that it's anyone's guess. If the strong next week (thurs) cold front gets him he'll drive ENE. If it's the Tuesday one, Panhandle. If it's no one, SHawn. Cheers!! Steve H.

scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 06:53 PM
Re: While Izzy decides his next move Kyle and Lili are in the horizon

CURRENT CONDITIONS SHOW LANDFALL ABOUT 230PM EASTERN ABOUT 50 MILES E OF THE W TIP OF CUBA. THOUGH MOVING AT 8MPH SOME SLOWING AND A NW TURN AS IT CROSSES CUBA WILL TAKE SHAPE AS THE UPPER LOW TO ITS WNW IN THE C GULF STARTS AGAIN TO HAVE SOME AFFECT. CURRENTLY VERY HEAVY RAINS ACROSS CUBA WITH CURRENT AMOUNTS NEARING A FOOT IN SW LOCATIONS. THERE WILL BE MASSIVE FLOODING ALMOST TO THE AFFECT OF MITCH IN HODURAS WITH THIS HURRICANE AS IT WILL MOVE VERY LITTLE OVER THE NEXT 48 HOURS STARTING LATE TONIGHT.TOTAL AMOUNTS BY MONDAY IN SW CUBA COULD REACH 3 FEET.
CURRENTLY NOTHING HAS CHANGED FROM MY PREVIOUS FORCAST BUT THE CHANCE OF MY 2ND TROUGH CATCHING ISADORE LATE SUNDAY INTO NEXT WEEK HAS GONE DOWN SLIGHTLY. MY GENERAL THINKING WAS ISADORE WOULD MOVE NW INTO THE SE GULF JUST NW OF CUBA AND STALL OR MOVE ERRATICLY SAT INTO SUNDAY THEN MISS THE 2ND TROUGH (MAYBE) THEN WITH SUCH A LOW PRESSURE OF NEAR 938 MOVE W AND WSW AROUND THE W SIDE OF THE YUCITAN THEN W THEN WNW INTO THE TAMPICO AREA BY THURSDAY OF NEXT WEEK. I SAID THOUGH THAT THE 1ST TROUGH WILL MISS ISADORE BUT THEN 2ND WILL COME DOWN AND ALSO COULD WITH A SMALLER CHANCE, PICK UP ISADORE LIKE THE LBAR,NOGAPS,AND GGEM FORCASTS AND MOVE HIM NNE INTO TAMPA - PANHANDLE.
THAT WAS YESTERDAYS AND IM ALITTLE MORE PUZZLED BY THE 2ND TROUGH. LATEST RUN BY THE GEMM NOW ALSO SHIFTS GREATLY W TO NEAR MY TAMPICO LANDFALL AND SO ARE THE MOST OF THE SOLUTIONS. THIS SHOWS THAT THE 2ND TROUGH MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY AFFECT THOUGH IT WILL BE REAL STRONG. WITH THAT ASSUMPTION THIS ISADORE MOST BE FORCASTED TO BE REALLY STRONG. AVN CONTINUES SW AND NOW FORCASTS NEAR TAMPICO AND DOES THE UKMET AND MOST TROPICAL SUITES.NOGAPS PUSHES THIS ALITTLE MORE W NOW BUT STALLS IT FOR A DAY JUST N OF THE YUCITAN THEN BEGINS THE N AND NNE NOVE AGAIN. GFDL (WHICH ALWAYS CHANGES DIRECTION OF A SYSTEM MOST OFTEN) STILL TURNS ISADORE IN A LOOP THEN BACK TO THE N ALONG THE LINES OF THE NOGAPS. BUT THIS HAS BEEN A W TREND OF THIS. FIRST LOOP THEN NE GULF, THEN MOBILE , NOW TOWARDS NEW ORLEANS. DONT TAKE WHAT THE GFDL SAYS SO THIS MODEL I WILL JUST THOUGH OUT AS AFTER 48 HOURS OUT IT IS USLESS.
ALL IN ALL THE 2ND TROUGH COMING DOWN THIS WEEKEND INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK SHOULD PICK UP A TS OR WEAK HURRICANE, BUT ITS FORCASTED TO BE SO STRONG IT WONT. I WILL KEEP MY LONG RANGE FORCAST THE SAME AS I DONT SEE MUCH OF ANYTHING HAPPENING UNLESS SOMEHOW IT STAYS UNDER A CAT 3 AND THE TROUGH CONTINUES ALITTLE FARTHER SOUTH. PEOPLE SHOULD WATCH THIS SYSTEM BUT AS FAR AS MAKING LANDFALL THERE WILL BE NONE FOR THE NEXT FEW DAYS. IF THE 2ND TROUGH MISSES THIS SYSTEM AND IT CURLS W OF THE YUCITAN BY MONDAY EVENING THEN W IT WILL CONTINUE. THATS IT FOR NOW, SCOTTSVB


scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:00 PM
Re: While Izzy decides his next move Kyle and Lili are in the horizon

I NEED TO CHECK MY SPELLING, THOUGH=THROW, MOST=MUST. DAMN lol SVB

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:01 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

he is making the front bend can he make his steering he looks to be taking control of the gulf thats what it looks like

OrlandoDude
(Registered User)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:15 PM
LOOPY MODELS - IS IT SUCH A SURPRISE IN THE GULF`

It appears that Izzy will be a typical Gulf Storm.

wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:25 PM
Human Forecasts and thoughts, for a change...

Here is how the PEOPLE at NWS are interperting what they see from the models...

EXTENDED FCST DISC VALID SUN SEP 22 2002 THRU THU SEP 26 2002
HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER/NCEP/NWS
324 PM EDT THU SEP 19 2002

...MODEL DISCUSSION...

THE LONGWAVE PATTERN STILL IS A KEY PLAYER IN DETERMINING WHAT
EFFECT DEVELOPING HURRICANE "ISIDORE" MIGHT HAVE ON THE MAINLAND OF
THE LOWER 48 STATES. EWD-DRIFTING STRONG UPPER RIDGES/POSITIVE HEIGHT
ANOMALIES WILL BE LOCATED NEAR THE W COAST OF CANADA AND OVER
LABRADOR IN THE 3 TO 5 DAY PERIOD. IN BETWEEN...A SIGNIFICANT UPPER TROF
WILL DRIFT EWD ACROSS THE MS VLY. THE UNANSWERED QUESTION REMAINS
HOW SHARP SHORTWAVES MOVING THRU THE BASE OF THIS TROF WILL BE...AND
WHETHER ANY OF THEM CAN PULL "ISIDORE" NWD INTO THE SERN STATES.


CONCERNING DEVELOPING HURRICANE "ISIDORE"....


DESPITE IT TAKING THE HURRICANE TO THE BAY OF CAMPECHE (LEFT OF ITS
00Z/19 TRACK) BY DAY 5...THE NEW 12Z AVN RUN CHANGED OUR THINKING VERY
LITTLE FROM OUR 14Z RELEASE. THIS MORNING...I DECIDED TO GO WITH THE 06Z
AVN EXCEPT IN THE GULF OF MEXICO AND ALONG THE ATLANTIC SEABOARD IN
CONNECTION WITH "ISIDORE". OUR EXTRAPOLATION OF HURRICANE "ISIDORE"
FROM THE OFFICIAL 12Z/19 NHC 72HR POSITION CONTINUES A LOW CONFIDENCE
FORECAST BASED ON THE FACT THAT THE 00Z/19 UKMET...NOGAPS...AND GFDL
HAD TAKEN A DECIDED TREND TOWARDS THE RIGHT FROM YESTERDAYS
TRACK. THEY FORECAST THE STORM INTO THE ERN GULF OF MEXICO DAYS 4-
5...THREATENING THE ERN GULF COAST...WRN FL...AND POSSIBLY EVEN THE
COASTAL CAROLINAS BY DAY 6. THIS WAS IN CONTRAST TO YESTERDAY MODEL
CONSENSUS...WHICH FAVORED THE WRN GULF OF MEXICO EXCEPT FOR THE
CANADIAN MODEL. A QUICK LOOK AT NEW 12Z/19 AVN/UKMET/NOGAPS RUNS
MAY BE FAVORING A SWING OF THE PENDULUM BACK TOWARD THE CENTRAL
AND WRN GULF OF MEXICO WITH "ISIDORE" FOR DAYS 3-4...MORE IN LINE WITH
YESTERDAYS MODEL GUIDANCE.

THE NEW 12Z AVN SPINS UP ANOTHER TROPICAL SYS NEAR THE BAHAMAS ON
DAY 3 THEN DRIFTS IT NNE OFF THE CAROLINA COAST THE REMAINDER OF THIS
MEDIUM RANGE PERIOD. WE ARE DISCOUNTING THIS DEVELOPMENT AS
SPURIOUS. LOCALLY HEAVY RAINS ARE STILL POSSIBLE DAYS 3-7 OVER FL...THE
ERN GULF COAST...AND THE S ATLANTIC COAST. BUT WE ARE LESS CONFIDENT
OF THIS SCENARIO THAN WE WERE THIS MORNING GIVEN THE WWD TRENDS OF
THE 12Z/19 AVN...NOGAPS...AND UKMET WITH "ISIDORE" DAYS 3-5.

So they are battling the flip-flop's of the model data as well...

And their Day 7 Surface map???

Day 7 sfc prog

Lending more creedance to the thought that even if we DO get a due W or SW motion, that we are still looking like a Gulf Coast strike...


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:28 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

i think that uper low in the bay is going to send izzy north the storms look strong down there i think izzy will go north for a while new motels show a sick izzy may die before land like all the others this year cool

Kevin
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:36 PM
Isidore-an EXTREMELY tough call. And other tropical issues

Isidore is really P*ssing me off now. I'm getting a bit fed up with the wobbling...this is what is making this forecast impossible. Isidore won't move in one direction for more than 12 hours, it seems the movement is WNW for 12 hours and then NW for the next 12 hours...and so on. Anyone who says this is trivial needs to learn about wobbles...they make it difficult to forecast in the short-term, and the short-term usually dictates the longer-term. Given the fact the the trough is still hanging over Texas and Isidore is moving slowly WNW to NW, I believe we may just see an complete collapse of the steering currents by 48 hours.

I will warn Floridians of one thing though...if Isidore remains a strong hurricane (likely) and drifts westward at 23-24N, the trough comming down on Tuesday will move him more NW initally and the second trough on Wednesday may well turn Isidore back towards the NE and ENE towards Central Florida. Isidore may respond to these troughs very dramatically or may not respond at all. Out of all the uncertainty, however, I believe this one is likely to shoot back towards Florida, possibly even towards the peninsula because Isidore is staying at a lower latitude than earlier forecasted. But don't get me wrong...storms at 23-24N can usually be picked up by troughs easily. Everyone in the GOMEX needs to keep their eye on this regardless of what is forecasted.

Other tropical issues: The tropical wave 1600 hundred miles east of the Windwards is very well defined and HUGE in size as well. A high is building, and this will keep the wave on a W and WNW track through 72 hours. Although I think it is reasonable to think this would be around PR/Hispanola by late next week, Florida *MAY* have to eventually deal with Isidore. The last thing we would need after a storm like Isidore would be another storm.

The low SE of Bermuda may be upgraded to a subtropical or tropical depression today. As busy as things are, I'll leave this one up to the NHC. The concerns at home are far greater than these things.

Kevin


scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:36 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

Jason that was yesterdays consensus, theyre new 1 should be out soon. Though there is still some uncertainty, they should say the 2nd trough will most likly not catch it.
scottsvb


wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:41 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

Good catch Scott...got my days and Z's mixed up there....

The link to the Day 7 prog, however, is right....



Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:42 PM
12 is out there

NRL now has No name 12. Looks like Dr. Gray's forecast as a litlle low after all.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:50 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

jason can the uper low in the bay push izzy north

wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:51 PM
Today's Extended Prog Discussion...

EXTENDED FCST DISC VALID MON SEP 23 2002 THRU FRI SEP 27 2002
HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER/NCEP/NWS
334 PM EDT FRI SEP 20 2002

...MODEL DISCUSSION...

THE 500MB LONGWAVE PATTERN REMAINS A KEY PLAYER IN DETERMINING
WHAT EFFECT HURRICANE "ISIDORE" MIGHT EVENTUALLY HAVE ON THE
MAINLAND OF THE LOWER 48 STATES. ABOVE AVERAGE UNCERTAINTY
CONTINUES WITH THIS STORM RIGHT INTO DAY 7. STRONG POSITIVE HEIGHT
ANOMALIES NE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND NEAR THE W COAST OF NOAM WILL
SANDWICH A BROAD N-S NEGATIVE HEIGHT ANOMALY OVER S CENTRAL
CANADA AND THE N CENTRAL CONUS DAYS 3-5. NEGATIVE HEIGHT ANOMALIES
WILL SPREAD EWD TO THE E COAST IN THE DAY 5-8 PERIOD WITH VERY CHILLY
AIR OVER THE GREAT LAKES.

THE MEAN PATTERN STILL FAVORS "ISIDORE" EVENTUALLY BEING PICKED UP
AND PULLED N INTO THE SERN STATES. 00Z/19 MODEL RUNS WERE SPLIT ON ITS
TRACK IN THE DAY 4-7 TIME FRAME. THIS MORNING I THOUGHT THAT THE
AVN/ECMWF/UKMET MIGHT BE TRACKING ISIDORE SO FAR S INTO THE BAY OF
CAMPECHE THAT IT WOULD NOT INTERACT WITH ANY SHORTWAVES MOVING
THRU THE BASE OF THE CENTRAL CONUS TROF. IN THIS MORNINGS RELEASE...I
DECIDED TO GO WITH THE AVN...EXCEPT IN THE GULF OF MEXICO AND
ALONG/OFFSHORE THE ATLANTIC SEABOARD. THE NEW 12Z AVN DID NOT
CHANGE THAT REASONING. THE 00Z/19 CANADIAN/GFDL/NOGAPS AIMED
HURRICANE "ISIDORE" TOWARDS THE CENTRAL/ERN GULF COAST AROUND DAY
5. HOWEVER...THE 12Z/19 CANADIAN MODEL BACKED OFF FROM ITS 00Z RUN AND
NOW TRACKS "ISIDORE" FARTHER WWD INTO THE GULF CLOSER TO THE TRACK
OF THE AVN MODEL.

AFTER MY NOON CONFERENCE CALL WITH THE NHC...MY LOW-CONFIDENCE
TRACK OF "ISADORE" THRU DAY 7 IS FARTHER S AND W THAN IN MY EARLY
RELEASE. I HAVE NOT GIVEN UP ON THE IDEA THAT THE STORM WILL BE
EVENTUALLY PICKED UP AND PULLED NWD...BUT IT MAY TAKE LONGER THAN I
EARLIER THOUGHT.

WE CONTINUE TO DISCOUNT A SUBTROPICAL SYS DEVELOPED BY THE LATEST
AVN RUNS VCNTY OF THE BAHAMAS DAY 3...THEN MOVED NNEWD OFFSHORE
THEREAFTER.


wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 07:52 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

The current thinking is no....it looks too weak to have that much infulence on the track.

cyclone_head
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:00 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

I tend to agree with you there "Anonomous". I was wondering myself if the Upper level low would shear off the tops of Izzy and tame some of his anger. Both systems are moving so slow, it's hard to tell how they will react when they finally meet....Keep me posted on any new ideas in this train of thought....

cyclone_head (Rick)


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:16 PM
well...

I'm sorry. I did not mean to imply, by any stretch of the imagination, that this storm was afftecting Orlando at the moment in any way. I was imply impressed by its breadth, and the movement of smaller storms around it, and within it.

I also feel like this storm is destined for the Yucatan, though still, the reason is beyond me. Why it continues to lean west, even with the ULL there, is very surprising to me. Who knows. I could just say to hell with you all, and make its own path. Do these models take into consideration at all if a very large storm starts to create its own steering?

For now, I am sticking with very close to the Yucatan for several days.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:24 PM
Re: Today's Extended Prog Discussion...

Jason, I have just visited a few times and I am very much the amateur, I keep looking at water vapor, IF and visible of entire GOMEX and ATL and it just seems that the TX trough, the weakening ULL in the Bay, will progress along to allow Izzy to be influenced Eastward. Do you see that or I am full of frustration and Izzys hot air ?????? Thanks - Chris

wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:31 PM
Re: Today's Extended Prog Discussion...

As I posted above, it does look like that the ULL low N of the Bay of Campeche won't be strong enough to influence the track to the N or E....that, however is speculation....educated speculation, but speculation nonetheless...



Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:46 PM
well

heading out for Friday drinks, woohoo! will be back later to check on our obsession.

Latest look at Key West radar shows bands heading for the lower keys, but the eye moving due west.

Let the observation continue....


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:49 PM
Re: Mexico to Miami Needs To Watch

press falling thanks jason

Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:53 PM
EEK!

Ok, I have NO CLUE as to where it's going....but if the 72 hour forecast for winds is correct, we are looking at a high Cat 3 or low Cat 4 hurricane. Let me just say if that is correct we all better start hoping like heck it goes back south, takes a right hand turn and heads westward until it lands in Hawaii as a tropical depression.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:54 PM
STD #12 forms...

ESE of Bermuda, expected to meander...just like Isidore...talk about teleconnections!

Isidore moving west for a while....time will tell.

IHS,

Bill


Rasvar
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:02 PM
Seems straight forward

Looking now, I can't really see any reason to go away from the NHC forecast through 72 hours. Isidore has been right on forecast for the past 24 hours. Until I see some deviation, I think i'm just going to enjoy my weekend. Seems like Izzy is going for a Yucatan vacation. Just have to see how close he gets and how long he stays. I will be curious to see if he actually makes it into the BOC, though. After 72 hours will be interesting.

SirCane
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:53 PM
Interesting week ahead.

Lot of people will be on the edge of their seats here on the Gulf Coast. These Gulf Hurricanes seem to always leave us hanging. It reminds me of Elena so far. (she was one crazy Hurricane)

SirCane in Pensacola



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