MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Sep 20 2002 08:54 PM
Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore



We have a new Subtropical depression out of a wave well southeast of the Bahamas.

Isidore has weakened a tad as it nears the land, but it won't much. The track is still as confusing as ever, but is trending more to the west now. We'll have to continue to be vigilant.

Jim Williams and Barometer bob are doing live Audio shows starting at 8PM and lasting usually to 10 or 11PM all during Isidore's run. Use the link below to check them out.

Havana, Cuba Radar

NRL Monterey Marine Meteorology Division Forecast Track of Active Systems (Good Forecast Track Graphic and Satellite Photos)

NASA GHCC Interactive Satellite images at:
North Atlantic Visible (Daytime Only), Infrared, Water Vapor

Some forecast models:
NGM, AVN, MRF, ETA ECMWF

DoD Weather Models (NOGAPS, AVN, MRF)
AVN, ECMWF, GFDL, MM5, NOGAPS, UKMET

Other commentary at Mike Anderson's East Coast Tropical Weather Center, Accuweather's Joe Bastardi, Hurricane City Weather Audio Broadcast Network - Live Audio from Jim Williams and Barometer Bob , Tropical Weather Watchers.Com (JasonM) Gary Gray's Millennium Weather, Barometer Bob's Hurricane Hollow, Snonut, Ed Dunham and Jason M in our Storm Forum Even more on the links page.

- [mike@flhurricane.com]


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:13 PM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

Latest NHC forecast turns the system due west after 48 hours and accelerates it some. To be frank with the posters here and myself, I believe if we see any more acceleration in the BOC with a continued westerly track, I will be strongly considering shifting my forecast towards the south and west in a very significant manner. The threat to the US may just be decreasing at this time, but I'm far from completely convinced at this time.

Are we done yet? No way. Just look across the Atlantic...it appears condtions are quite favorable there and the wave at 40 west is very large and quite vigorous. We could well have another depression by Sunday or Monday. If this one develops it could have a legitimate chance of becoming a major hurricane with an upper-level high building in to it's north. The wave behind it could improve with time. After all, we are still in September.

Subtropical depression 12 has formed....should head NE gradually over the next few days. Not a real threat to anybody.

Watch Isidore until he's dead or has a sure-footed westward motion established. Keep in mind, though, that the Eastern Atlantic may try to pop a few that may try to threaten in the long-term.

Kevin


Rasvar
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:21 PM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

Just too repeat what I said in the other thread. I feel ok going along with the current 72 hour forecast from NHC. If there is significant deviation on one side or another, things will get more interesting. For now, I'm just going to relax and enjoy some football with an occasional glance over the weekend. As long as Izzy is on or near forecast, i'll just sit and wait. Have a feeling I will still be looking at Izzy next weekend.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:26 PM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

They don't speed Izzy up at the end, they still have him slowing down.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:34 PM
Isidore's future...

I am intrigued by its continued westward track. If Isidore makes it into the BOC, and keeps favorable upper-level conditions as well, it might--repeat, *might*--take off. The SST anomalies in the BOC are running at least 1 - 1.5 C above normal; in fact, it's even warmer than the NW Caribbean.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:40 PM
Re: Isidore's future...

Izzy looks to have jumped a tiny bit north will on land.

Also, There is now another invest 92L. Looks like the wave east of the islands. Things are really heating up now.


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:42 PM
Re: Isidore's 72 hour speed (directed to anonymous poster)

Take a close look at the new track:
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ftp/graphics/AT10/AL1002W.GIF

Notice how the line gets longer between 48 and 72 hour forecast points? That indicates a slight increase in speed, but Isidore still won't be a dragster by any means. NHC's forecasted coordinates actually support a westward acceleration between 48 and 72 hours.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:49 PM
Re: Isidore's 72 hour speed (directed to anonymous poster)

That is an illusion. The lines between the other plots is for a 12 hr period not a 24 hr period.

wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:51 PM
Re: Isidore's 72 hour speed (directed to anonymous poster)

Actually Kev, look at the valid times...

The previous 4 points have a 12 hr interval...the time distance between the last 2 is 24 hrs...so the longer distance isn't an increase in speed...it's pretty much a continuation...



Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:54 PM
Re: Isidore's 72 hour speed (directed to anonymous poster)

JK

Are you starting to prescribe to the WSW movement? 2 of the NHC models still have a turn north around 48 hours. I just think that eventually, it has to come north and northeast.


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:55 PM
Re: Isidore's 72 hour speed (directed to anonymous poster)

Thanks for clearing that up Jason. I guess that line really is an illusion, I have heard before not to puch much credit into an exact set of coordinates like that anyways. Very deceptive.

Kevin


meto
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 20 2002 09:58 PM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

this hurricane will be going very slow couple days out. and no one is in the clear, west central fla could well be threatened by the hurricane.

wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 10:05 PM
Re: Isidore's 72 hour speed (directed to anonymous poster)

I'm still deciding...and I have about 4 more minutes to make a call before I hit the air!!!

I'll let you know what I think a little later...


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 10:13 PM
Re: Isidore's future...

Yes it is...interesting weekend with 4 systems (though 2 only to watch carefully). The guys from Purto rico will have their share of excitement...Kyle, Lilly or Marco?
I guess Gray should be filling out his retirement papers


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 10:35 PM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

sounds like izzy is going to mexico to here everyones thinking its got a long way to go to get there people to the north stay awake but sounds like this ones a goner w/c said less threat to us great news we can go to bed tonight

Domino
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 20 2002 10:38 PM
Wishcasting for Indiana...

Well I made some jokes yesterday that for me to wishcast this would have to be a cat 5 going at 500mph to reach me, I shoulda kept my mouth shut. I'll be offline for a few days as an F-3 or F-4 tornado leveled half my city today. Luckily I'm safe and my home escaped damage, more than I can say for the rest of my town and the state of Indiana in general. See you all when I have power again.
Derek


Cycloneye
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 20 2002 10:53 PM
Wave east of the islands is my concern

As all of you are dealing with Isidore and his future movements I here in Puerto Rico will have to deal by midweek with a potential developing wave that has all in it's favor for developent.

troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:13 PM
Re: Wave east of the islands is my concern

Derek/Domino

Hang in there. Hope eneryone you know is safe.

Troy


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:16 PM
Re: Wave east of the islands is my concern

I agree with you 100% Cycloneye. This looks to be a threat for Puerto Rico, and possibly a major one at that. The Lesser Antilles and Greater Antilles need to monitor this storm as it may be near you by the early and middle part of next week.

This system should intensify quite rapidly...but I don't believe this is an instant fish storm. The troughs have had a trend of missing storms this year. Still to early to comment on a US threat, but it appears possible eventually.

Kevin


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:28 PM
Re: Wishcasting for Indiana...

Domino,
I heard about the Tornadoes on the way home tonight. Best wishes to all up there, and I hope nobody close to you was hurt.

--

The wave east of the Caribbean is the next one I'm watching. Isidore is just so Isidorish, and will do the deep gulf twirl, while we'll just track every wobble as a "definitive move" toward whomever.



greg-kfdmtv
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:32 PM
18Z AVN

The 18Z AVN run is quite ominious for Texas and Louisiana. It will be interesting if the 00Z run is similiar...

Greg Bostwick
Chief Meteorologist
KFDM-TV Beaumont, Texas


ShawnS
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:35 PM
Greg

Where does it place it because I haven't seen it yet?

Mike
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:40 PM
Re: Wishcasting for Indiana...

Domino: Hope not to many lifes were effected. Homes and towns can be repaired. Stay safe and good luck.

greg-kfdmtv
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:41 PM
18Z Landfall

Shawn...

It has landfall along the upper Texas-southwest Louisiana coastline Thursday night and Friday morning. Not good....

Greg Bostwick
Chief Meteorologist
KFDM-TV Beaumont, Texas


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:44 PM
Re: 18Z Landfall

Greg where's the link?

BillD
(User)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:45 PM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

Looking at the most recent (and very dim) visible at 2245Z, is that the eye that I see right over Cuba or a shadow?

Is it me, or has Isidore stalled? Or is it just a wobble, maybe because its over land? The Key West radar and IR show some kind of change.

Bill


ShawnS
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:47 PM
Re: 18Z Landfall

I don't think there's any way that will happen. I feel we are kind of in the middle of where the possible landfall will be. It will either be in Mexico, which is my first pick,or somewhere east of LA. I think there is a "wall" set up that will protect us here in Texas,especially the upper Texas coast.

meto
(Weather Guru)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:47 PM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

bill i see last sat pic it moved north and to the right that what you see.l

greg-kfdmtv
(Meteorologist)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:49 PM
AVN website

To view the 18Z AVN and all other NCEP models go to:

www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/

Greg Bostwick
Chief Meteorologist
KFDM-TV
Beaumont, Texas


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Sep 20 2002 11:49 PM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

I'm not going to sweat the system east of the Islands. Upper-level analyses show two humongous troughs west of it...if it develops east of 60W, I think it's unrealistic to expect it to either survive the shear or otherwise avoid turning north. This is not the time of year for storms to make it to the East Coast from the deep Atlantic.

Of course, if it develops in the Caribbean, that's another story.


meto
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:01 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

its moving north.

Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:03 AM
meto - find me a north movement in the shortwave and you can mail me a hat for desert

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/float-ir2-loop.html

VolusiaMike
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:03 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

The latest info (20:00 hr) indicates direction 360 degrees at 7 MPH, top winds 98 MPH, pressure 964

Jeanine
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:05 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

Per NHC it is drifting Northwestward and should resume its WNW movement in a few hours. I see what you guys are talking about though on the Key West Radar

meto
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:12 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

look at 8 0 clock statement 3 degrees north since 5 o west ok

meto
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:16 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

dont choke on yur hat

BillD
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:20 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

That is what I thought I was seeing, sort of a stall/wobble/drift NW. Did not say it had changed direction based on just a couple of frames. And the radar is iffy, since its right on the edge of what it can "see" and what it is "seeing" is way above sea level at that range. Anybody know more or less how high in this case? Any easy formula to figure that out? And how much does it skew what we're seeing?

Good to know I wasn't seeing things though :-) I've been staring at these loops about 18 hours a day.

Bill


meto
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:23 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

hurricanes have changed their path when crossing cuba.

Londovir
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:32 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

Well, first off, excellent website and forum. I've lurked often over the last two years or so, and now actually have some time to post.

Given our local TV news anchors around here, they are all parroting the official tracks and aren't offering any real insight or guesses of their own. They show Izzy scooting through the "gap" of Cuba and then arcing low and over the Yucatan and heading into the lower GOMEX or BoC. They also show it possibly going into Cat 3 or 4 status around then too. Ooof.

I just hope that holds true and doesn't come my way! Even better, I hope it builds up over water, blows itself out over water, and washes ashore wherever as just a simple rainstorm. Too much to wish for, I know, but still....

Jay


greg-kfdmtv
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:46 AM
Cancun Radar

The website http://smn.cna.gob.mx/radares/radares.html has a link to the Cancun radar.

You can not loop it but is does have a nice still image.

The eye of Isidore is just moving off the Cuban coast into the Gulf.

Greg Bostwick
Chief Meteorologist
KFDM-TV Beaumont, Texas


Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:47 AM
It's delicious...

But just because the eye is repositioned a few miles north (in this case 0 over 3), look at the overall envelope and understand it's on land. This should be pretty short lived IMHO.

Steve - but good catch bra


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:50 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

To all "wishcasters": I know nothing about the weather but I was in Homestead during Andrew and anyone who thinks a direct hit is anything other then the most frightening and devastating experience possible knows nothing about
meteorology. You can't talk to anyone because its too loud
you can't see anything including house framing flying through the air at 150 m.p.h. because its to dark. Imagine standing in front of a firing squad in the pitch black not knowing where the next bullet is coming from. All you can do is curl up in the corner of your "safe room" and think about all your friends and family you didn't get to say goodbye to because you are 100% sure you are going to die in the next few seconds . When you do live you get to see dead pets with swollen, rotting bodies and no hair (I guess the wind ripped it off after they flew miles in the air), people who have know idea who they are where they are why they are bleeding or if there even alive, people with every dream they worked for destroyed in 24 hours, and kids who scream in horror at night for months on end to the point where families move away from Florida forever. I check this site becuse I don't ever want to be near a hurricane again. If you think you might be in the path of one don't be a wishcaster just run fast and far away.


joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:08 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

Well, Dr. Nighmare has spoken!
Buy the way, why does every little jog north bring out the term "wishcasters"?


Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:16 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

In reply to:

To all "wishcasters":



Dear Anonymous, First, I can relate to your comments having been essentially at ground zero during Camille (Biloxi), but I really think that an awful lot of the 'wishcasting' you refer to is actually 'FEARcasting'. I think even Shawn of Tx who seems to wish a 'cane to hit his area limits his 'desire' to a Cat1 storm, one that certainly can and might kill and most definitely would cause damage, but I've seen no one so far that WANTS a Camille, Andrew, Hugo or an Isadore on their doorsteps.....stating an opinion that it is gonna hit 'here' isn't wishcasting at all, but expressing the fear, born of the uncertainty this storm is causing.
The Pro's here certainly aren't wishcasting, but stating their educated opinions as to what their experience and training suggests the data indicates *might* happen, but I doubt that Jason, for instance, having stated an opinion that "his" area might be the target, is in any way hoping it will hit him or his viewers. If any wishcasting is occurring, it is wishing the storm would die a death over water and make landfall as a puffy little rain shower....we only want to be smart enough to predict where and when we need the umbrella....

PS...join our group, register and tell us who you are....There are too many people here with the same name: Anonymous...it gets confusing


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:21 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

As much as I dislike models right now, the latest GFDL and NoGaps put it awfully close to New Orleans now. Look for the model links in the article.

BillD
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:29 AM
Re: Wishcasters and Andrew

Anyone that has been through a major hurricane would never wish another on themselves, or anyone else. I rode out Andrew just north of where the eyewall passed, and a couple of miiles south of where the NHC radar blew off the top of the building it was on. I had friends and family in Homestead, Cutler Ridge and Country Walk, so I know first hand what you mean, but can't find the words to express it. A long time friend is writing a book "ten years after", I owe her a response to a detailed survey, but so far I haven't been able to sit down and fill it out. Too many bad memories. My mom and most of my friends lived in the curfew zone, so I had to go through multiple National Guard checkpoints to help them out. It was six months before I stopped jumping every time I heard a helicopter.

I also remember Donna when I was not quite 4 years old. The sound is what can't be described, or the smell after.

But I also think that most people, maybe all, on this site really don't hope a hurricance comes their way, but they are very concerned that it might. This can be interepreted as "wishcasting" but I don't think it is.

If Isidore should take a turn North (not just a wobble) then I have something to be worried about.

Bill


joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:37 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

Just to add a few more models to dislike, the A98E and LBAR show no SW movement, seem to be riding north on 90W, which is New Orleans.
Joe in Jax

GO JAGS


Danya
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:40 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

OK. everyone. I've been reading Gary Gray's models, and watching Joe Bastardi's videos. But, today, shopping at "Ye Olde Wal Marte"...all the bottled water available in this county seemed to be GONE...and even though the models seem to be leading us to believe that this storm is going towards Mexico instead of here....how many of you really believe that? I'm prepared to go back to Wal Mart and pick up waterproof containers for all my business equipment (2 computers, 3 laptops, 1 fax, and 2 network phones) and pack it all up with the photo albums and get the heck outta here. (I live in a mobile temporaraily, thank you.) I was born an raised in Florida, and remember a storm as a child that sent my father and me dashing over the Courtney Campbell causeway in Pinellas/Hillsborough county to pick up my poor mother who was an emergency telephone operator who was stranded and could't get home. Sometime in the 60's I think. (I was very young.) Now I watch Izzy, with bated breath. The weather prognositicators in this area declare that Florida is out of danger. Do you...who study the weather, and don't have anything to prove to anyone...believe they're right?


meto
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:48 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

fla. is not out of the woods yet, any one whos says they know where this monster will go ater 60 hours 72 dont know what they are talking about.

Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:50 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

In reply to:

The weather prognositicators in this area declare that Florida is out of danger. Do you...who study the weather, and don't have anything to prove to anyone...believe they're right?



I believe this storm would make a liar out of anyone who stated 'definitely yes', but it is indeed much less likely that the Central Florida area will be pounded. However, having said this, it is almost impossible to believe that at some point it won't turn north or north east and impact the US. It *could* happen otherwise but the odds are in favor of eventual impact in the Central to E GOM area. Hopefully not as a major storm...If and when it gets north of your latitude, you can start breathing much more easily, but even that is no guarantee...


Danya
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:59 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

Thanks. After watching Joe Bastardi today (such an appropriate name, God love him). I was a little unsure, but I tend to believe the non-professionals over the paid professionals.. Ya'll have to live here, after all. Not that I think Joe is not one one of the best. He's just a damn Yankee, and he can't help that, no matter how good a weatherman he is!
Thanks everyone who replied. I'm going to sleep a little more reassured now.


Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:59 AM
Has anyone noticed....

...the number of posts tonight appear to be inversely proportional to the distance the storm is from a major population center....

Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:08 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

In reply to:

but I tend to believe the non-professionals over the paid professionals


By far and large, you SHOULD listen to the paid professionals....most do an excellant job and on the whole, while often wrong, are much less likely to be wrong when it counts. Often I accuse them of not looking out the window before they make their forecasts, but you must remember, a forecast is just an educated guess about the future, and no human alive that I am aware of, has knowledge of the future....they, we, are all guessing. Paid professionals tend to guess better, but it is still a guess. Don't blindly follow *anyone*, but use your own head and get as many facts as possible and draw your own conclusions, but DO listen to the experts...Sleep well...


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:09 AM
Re: Has anyone noticed....

I know thay keep saying it's going west, but it appears the trough to the northwest is having an effect on Izzy. The out flow has stoped expanding to the west and is being pushed to the north. Key West radar and last Recon fixes comfirm a north track the last few hours. Anyone else think Izzy is about as far west as he will get?
Steve
South Florida


Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:12 AM
Re: Has anyone noticed....

In reply to Anyone else think Izzy is about as far west as he will get?

I hope not The longer it goes West, the further it is from here and the more time it will take for it to get back, time perhaps to weaken.... In any event, no, I do think it will continue West a bit longer...


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:16 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

mike said south texas izzy will land there said new info that a high is going to bild in from the east and ther will be no way to go north gulf coast take your wood back shawn you called it

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:24 AM
coming in

We began bringing in the troops from the offshore oil rigs yesterday down here in S. LA - especially the deepwater rigs. The GFDL 1800Z doesn't look too good for us, but who knows - we get lots of practice at moving out the guys. Hope we do not get to Phase 5 on the Storm Plan.

Steve in Old Metairie - What do you think Nash would say about our storm?


Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:46 AM
Re: coming in

This URL of the current 'thinking' of the various models is interesting.... at the moment I'm not sure I'd want to be anywhere *in* the Gulf

http://www.wrel.com/modelmap.htm


DopplerGal
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:47 AM
Re: Has anyone noticed....

It does appear that it will not continue much or maybe any farther West. But what does that mean?!?!?!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:53 AM
Re: coming in

That basically tells me they don't have a clue where he's going! LOL Looks like he's stalled over the last three hours or so. I can't discern any movement. Of course, I'm not qualified to make that call.

Jeanine
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:54 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Sorry, tonight I have to vent:
Why is it whenever someone says they think it moved or it looks like it is moving all of the comments about wishcasting come out and all the stories of what can happen do so don't wish. NO ONE IS WHISHING, not only is wish casting not allowed on the board (I Agree), but now it has been suggested that if you are going to post any comments you have to be able to back them up. I DID NOT KNOW THAT THERE WAS A CRITERIA TO BE ABLE TO POST HERE. Let me say I have been on this board for 3yrs also (peanuts/aka Jeanine) I don't say much because everyone around here has gotten so high and mighty. I can only speak for myself and say that I do not have the meteorologic background that some of you do (but enjoy tracking hurricanes and the weather)and sometimes it gets a little boring lurking in the background. So if all I can offer is a link or maybe something about a storm moving don't be so darn critical. I'm sure there are others who feel the same. Nobody said it has taken a new path and thats the way its going, just that they think they may have seen it move. For me, Andrew came, I left, Irene came I was scared, so no wishcasting here. I've been up with the rest of you looking and HOPING ITS NOT COMING MY WAY.................................There I'm done P.S. this took me a while to type so if you haven't been on page two of this thread or were not on here last night you won't know what I was refering to! Sorry if there are any spelling errors


Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:59 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Ummmm...did I say something to the contrary?

Bruce
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:01 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

5 Stars, can I have one?

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:01 AM
if it has stalled

Then it is changing directions...anyone who has any sense can see that in the last 24 hours...the "experts" have turned the direction of the storm 90 degrees counter-clockwise. I am no genius, but I do know NO ONE knows what this will do....

one thing I do know...it is stalling out there...and had it stalled over Cuba...it just might have died....and since it has stalled...it is fixin' to probably CHANGE it's course....and when it does...it might meander...and STALL AGAIN...

remember...no strong steering currents right now....until this thing takes off at about 10 mph..you can pretty much be sure anything is possible...

Mobile...ground zero...cat 5....nanny nanny boo boo....


wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:05 AM
Discussion...

Check out the last paragraph...

068
WTNT45 KNHC 210242
TCDAT5
HURRICANE ISIDORE DISCUSSION NUMBER 20
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MIAMI FL
11 PM EDT FRI SEP 20 2002

ISIDORE SLOWED DOWN DURING THE PAST FEW HOURS AS IT WAS CROSSING THE
WESTERN PORTION OF CUBA. THE EYE WAS OBSERVED BY RADARS FROM HAVANA
..LA BAJADA CUBA...AND KEY WEST. A RECONNAISSANCE PLANE ESTIMATED
A MINIMUM PRESURE OF 964 MB JUST PRIOR TO LANDFALL. THE EYE IS NOW
MOVING OVER THE SOUTHEASTERN GULF OF MEXICO BUT MOST OF THE
CIRCULATION AND RAINBANDS ARE EXPECTED TO AFFECT CUBA FOR SEVERAL
MORE HOURS. AN AIR FORCE PLANE WILL BE IN TROPICAL CYCLONE AROUND
06 UTC AND WILL DETERMINE IF ISIDORE LOST STRENGTH ON ITS LONG TREK
OVER WESTERN CUBA. THE CLOUD PATTERN REMAINS WELL ORGANIZED WITH AN
IMPRESSIVE OUTFLOW AND NUMEROUS CONVECTIVE BANDS. DVORAK T-NUMBERS
SUGGEST WINDS BETWEEN 90 AND 100 KNOTS. HOWEVER...INITIAL INTENSITY
IS KEPT AT 85 KNOTS SINCE THE EYE HAS BEEN MOVING OVER LAND FOR
SEVERAL HOURS. MOST OF THE GLOBAL MODELS CONTINUE TO FORECAST AN
IDEAL UPPER-LEVEL WIND ENVIRONMENT. THEREFORE...ISIDORE IS FORECAST
TO BECOME A MAJOR HURRICANE IN THE GULF OF MEXICO.

MODELS ARE IN MUCH BETTER AGREEMENT TONIGHT. MOST OF THEM SHOW A
SLOW WEST OR WEST-SOUTHWEST MOVING HURRICANE ALONG AND NOT FAR FROM
THE NORTHERN PORTION OF THE YUCATAN PENINSULA FOR THE NEXT 3 DAYS.
THIS IS THE EASIEST PART OF THE FORECAST. THEREAFTER...I SEE TROUBLE
ON THE HORIZON. THE NCEP GLOBAL MODEL...WHICH PREVIOUSLY KEPT
ISIDORE TRAPPED IN THE BAY OF CAMPECHE IS NOW TURNING THE HURRICANE
NORTHWARD. NOGAPS AND THE GFDL ARE ALSO FORECASTING THE NORTHWARD
TURN BUT A LITTLE BIT SOONER. THE UK HAS BECOME THE ONLY MODEL THAT
MOVES THE HURRICANE WESTWARD TOWARD MEXICO. THIS NORTHWARD TURN IS
EXPECTED TO OCCUR WHEN THE STRONG MID-LEVEL LOW CURRENTLY OVER THE
BAHAMAS BECOMES REPLACED BY A STRONG SUBTROPICAL RIDGE. THERE IS
CONSENSUS AMONG MODELS IN THIS PATTERN CHANGE AND IN THE NORTHWARD
TURN OF THE HURRICANE BUT THEY DIFFER IN THE TIMING.

FORECASTER AVILA

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INITIAL 21/0300Z 22.4N 84.6W 85 KTS
12HR VT 21/1200Z 22.9N 85.4W 90 KTS
24HR VT 22/0000Z 23.0N 87.0W 100 KTS
36HR VT 22/1200Z 22.5N 88.0W 105 KTS
48HR VT 23/0000Z 22.5N 89.0W 110 KTS
72HR VT 24/0000Z 22.5N 90.0W 115 KTS


troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:07 AM
Re: if it has stalled

Bruce, At least you have a star! 3 of em. Can I have one of yours?
snif snif



Floridacane
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:09 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Well said Jeanine...Everyone who borders the GOM is on edge right now. I don't want this to hit Florida, Hell, I don't want him to hit anywhere. We're all here for one reason, to "cast" our opinions, some expert, some not. So let's cool, it and get back to what we're all here for.
And for those that do want "wish-casting", here's mine, I wish Izzy would just DIE!


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:09 AM
THIS WON'T BE PRETTY YA'LL

Camille went north....stalled for I think 24 hours?......and that extra time enabled her to reach that status...

this storm...is doing things we DON'T want it to...

what we have here is quite simple....

A MAJOR HURRICANE IN THE GULF OF MEXICO WITH NO PARTICULAR PLACE TO GO.......


DopplerGal
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:09 AM
Re: Discussion...

So North again, huh. Looks like every other day it's headed in my direction!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:10 AM
Re: if it has stalled

I hate this. I really should get some sleep. Can someone check out the longrange Key West Radar. You can pick up the center exiting the coast of Cuba. It now appears to be wobbling NE. This is evident because there is a tiny island and the band moves NE from this. By the way I need to watch this because I live in Key West. If the 3% chance comes to fruition. I wake up and need to board up a business a home and evacuate a family in the wind and rain. If you look at radar there really isn't that much room for error. It's not like a typical storm where you have 3 days of nice weather to prepare. If this does an about face any preparations will have to be done in lousy conditions.

Keith


BillD
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:11 AM
Re: if it has stalled

I don't think it has stalled, looking at the Cancun radar the center seems to continue on a slow NW track. But has anyone noticed the massive convection build-up to the SE on IR? Something is going on. This storm is not going to cooperate with any models... and I don't think anyone has a clue what it is going to do.

Bill


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:14 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

n/w at 7 how long will that last when we get up if it is still north west that will be strange this is no wish but a fact only one person nose were its going and its not you or me

Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:17 AM
Re: if it has stalled

I'm not sure it has stalled either, but I do see it as having slowed down, and that often preceeds a change of direction. Yet, the URL http://www.srh.noaa.gov/radar/loop/DS.p20-r/si.kbyx.shtml does show it has moved back out into water, off shore and the slowdow may be due to the fact it has been over land for several hours. IF it has slowed and is changing directions, all of Florida is in deep doo-doo, especially you guys in the Keys.

Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:19 AM
Re: Discussion...(hmmm...)

*IF*, and boy do I mean *IF* the models can get some consistency with this northward turn that they have suddenly switched to, I definitely won't need to change my forecast for now.

I could imagine a slow northward drift beginning in 72 hours and after that I would have to think the shortwave would come down and send Isidore NE towards the Big Bend area. However, it is MUCH to early to say anything with any consistency or accuracy.

The possible short-fused nature of Isidore reminds me somewhat of Irene back in 1999.

Kevin


troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:22 AM
Re: if it has stalled

It probably hasnt stalled for long. Some times when I have been on land all day long or for a while, especially a hot and humid land like say, Cuba, when i jump back into the water I dont move much right away, but kinda go "Ahhhhh this feels nice!" you know, enjoying the water.
Maybe thats what Izzy is doin



Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:22 AM
Anyone got any opinions on the 11pm offical track?

Not exactly what I expected to see. Unless there was an error in the typed coordinates, they move Isidore due west for 72 hours. It starts at 22.4 and ends up at 22.5 around 90 or so. I think there is a western or wnw component in the next 48 or so, but it kind of struck me as odd.

Jeannine - I got a PM headed to ya. Said I wasn't going to post anymore on my part in all that.

Steve


joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:23 AM
Re: Discussion...

I was just reading that. Also was wondering if the fact it was only .5 south of the farthest northern forecast at 5:00 pm was going to start changing their tune. If it sneaks much above 23N it just about blows most of the Mex. landfall models out the window. In a really weird way, it may be good news for the east coast, because if there was something strong enough to keep Izzy from moving north it might also keep a possible huricane in the Atlantic from turning north away from us(I'm in Jacksonville). Do you think I'm way off base on that last thought? The NHC is running test models on a wanabe east of PR.

Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:24 AM
Re: Discussion...

In reply to:

THERE IS
CONSENSUS AMONG MODELS IN THIS PATTERN CHANGE AND IN THE NORTHWARD
TURN OF THE HURRICANE BUT THEY DIFFER IN THE TIMING.



A couple of days ago...seems like a week you posted a Suite showing possible landfall not too far from your location: Has the change in the information you just posted change your opinion or do you think it is still gonna go West, then North per that Suite's solution?


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:29 AM
New Orleans Met

Fox 8 met said that one of the reasons that Izzy will eventually make the northward track was based on the following:

There is a large ULL off to the NE of the system and that is going to drive the system off to the west or even WSW for the next couple of days... over time the ULL off to the NE of the system will be replace with high pressure which and this will be the trigger that will influence Izzy to move northward, because he will be rotating around the edge of the high pressure and that's the mechanism that eventually drives the system northward.... this was his forecast... not mine... but makes sense in this senseless situation...

Several of the models tonight are in agreement with the northward track... GFDL has it going to the MS coast just southeast of Biloxi... but hey, what city has not gotten a direct hit with the GFDL over the past two days from Izzy ....

I'm still sticking with my initial forcast of a land fall on the FL panhandle, but reserver the right to shift it just a tad bit west... I'm going to go down with the ship on this one as far as forecast... this thing might end up in Mexico... but I doubt it... eventually its going north.... if I'm wrong, and I hope so, crow tastes just fine with a cold miller light...

as someone posted earlier, what would Nash Roberts forecast.... all he needed was a black marker and marker board... he was one of the best...


clyde w.
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:29 AM
Re: Discussion...(hmmm...)

In a perfect world, Izzy would pull a Lenny and head back the way he came! And yes, I do know that's not going to happen.

Once they get in the Gulf, someone is going to get affected, its just a matter of when now, not if. Still have no idea where this thing is going, but I have a good excuse...I'm not a met--I think I too, qualify as a lurker/recent poster.

Wanted to say thanks to Jason, Scottsvb, and Bostwick?? for taking the time to post here....its really nice to see the pro's perspective.


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:30 AM
Next 72 hours are very clear...

but I'm thinking NHC could be wrong from 36-72 hours. I'd say a slow WNW movement instead of W. After 72 hours, as Avila said, the real trouble begins.

Kevin


Bruce
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:33 AM
Re: if it has stalled

Good one

BillD
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:33 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

So that's what happened to peanuts You've been here all along.

I agree with you and I've said much the same in past posts.

We have two things to deal with. One is that we get a lot of anonymous posts from people that are trying to cause trouble or just get a reaction. For that reason I am opposed to anonymous access, but its not my board.

The other is that for just about everyone this can be an emotionally stressful situation, and people say things they probably wouldn't normally say.

I think we all have to be careful what we say and in particular be careful about how we react to others comments.

Bill


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:36 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

jason thanks so 72 hours out hurr centerr thinks north turn plus models also if this think dont speed up cental culf could be in trouble this is going to be close thanks for the info

wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:37 AM
Re: Discussion...

In FrankP's post following yours, the situation is described very accurately (kudos to that TV guy!). The amount of westward drift and the timing of the ejection of that UL over the Bahama's IS the forecast issue. That is what it gonna push it west (if it ever does!), and the replacement of it with high pressure is what will drive Izzy N or NE...which that model data I posted earlier jives with.

joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:46 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

I've been taught three things this week:
1)A poster can be accused of being a "wishcaster" if they think the storm might hit them.
2)Some people get mad when they think the storm is going to miss them (this is bad news?) and lash out at the above.
3)Cuban radar really, really, really sucks.

Joe in Jax


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:58 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

good post Joe... let me add a couple of more

stress levels are going to increase tremendously on this board once the system decides who is going to get blasted... people who post on this web page take this stuff quite serious, are very knowledgable, and do a great job overall... yeah there some wishcasting but NO ONE really wants a Cat 3 or 4 to hit them, no one in there right mind...

I'm like Shawn.... sure a smalll weak Cat 1 every now and then is fun and not all that bad, but starting taking about a major... I think not....

everyone is also going to be worn out... we're still days away from landfall and I've been getting about 5 hours of sleep per night the last couple of nights... now what happens when and if it really get serious as far as getting a real threat......

I would tell everyone to get as much rest as they can, but I wouldn't be practicing what I'd be preaching.... so it time to strap on the mojo gang cause it's only going to get worse for some of us.... somewhere


Rad
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:07 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Very well put Frank, It is going to be a long week for many of us ........ EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED

Ricreig
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:11 AM
Speaking of wishcasting

If you look at http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/nwatl-wv-loop.html long enough, you'd swear Izzy is being pushed backward....

joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:12 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Agree on everything you said. Good time to get ready for the worse, hope for the best. It always was in somebody else's hands anyway.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:14 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

wth you guys talking about earlier on a N or even NE turn on radar, i been looking at the last 6 hour havana loop and it shows it still moving generall wnw over last 6 hours. Talk about hype and nonsense gees. Also this thing is moving around 7-8 mph. Lets get real, it wont come up to anyone if at all for the next 3 days. Lets watch and make some TRUE insights on what we see and data and links to give out.

Bruce
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:16 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Joe, very true!!

joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:31 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

See above comment on Cuban radar. Maybe Fidal WANTS them to think it's moving WNW?
Anyway, Key West long range radar site hasn't updated in over an hour? I think I'll go get some sleep. My eyes are spinning counter-clockwise.
Good night everybody.
Joe in Jax
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:33 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

In reply to:

AFDEYW

FLORIDA KEYS AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE KEY WEST FL
1011 PM EDT FRI SEP 20 2002

. WINDS OVER THE AREA HAVE BEEN GENERALLY ESE
OVER THE AREA THIS EVENING...A BIT HIGHER OVER WESTERN
PORTIONS...NEARER IRENE...WHERE THEY'RE RUNNING AROUND 20 TO 25 KT
OVER THE WATER AND AROUND 20 MPH ON THE ISLANDS. WINDS OFFSHORE THE
MIDDLE AND UPPER KEYS ARE AROUND 15 TO 20 KT.





Can tell those guys are tired...Irene was mentioned in place of Izzy.
well its bed time...no more 5 hours of sleep for me...well for now atleast


Bruce
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:34 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Frank you got it. Some of us do get into this. Over the last 3 season or so, I've seen some pretty hot "Debates" on this site. It's the best.

PaulyAce2002
(Verified CFHC User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:34 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

TWC had up on its 11pm "Drifting Northwestward"...

Now of course I don't trust TWC that much, but tomorrow is another day..


PaulyAce2002
(Verified CFHC User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:41 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

speaking of TWC, Im watching the sat images...anyone notice Isidore getting smaller?

troy2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:42 AM
92l

92l is lookin better tonight. Maybe it will give us another swirl to stare at.
troy
ok now its bedtime, for real this time


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:43 AM
Re: Speaking of wishcasting

Richard I've been watching the IR loop and I can't detect if its moving or not... deep white convection not moving but I'm not sure where the eye is.... hard to tell... could be stationary but I'm not sure... I'm getting delirious and need some sleep...

Bruce... gotta love it dude....


jlauderdal
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:46 AM
Re: Speaking of wishcasting

Its not moving!! Time to turn out attention to the East..we have a player out there!

Bruce
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:49 AM
Re: Speaking of wishcasting

Throw my ashes in the Eyewall of a Cat 5 when I pass on

Jeanine
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:49 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Sorry if I ticked anyone off! I just had to vent, It was my turn, Anyway Ricreig didn't aim anything at you, Bill D hello, and Bruce, no, you can not have one of my stars . Have a good evening everyone, no hard feelings Steve.
Jeanine


BillD
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:59 AM
Re: Speaking of wishcasting

Look at the radar. Now that it has cleared land, it is moving, west, just like the NHC said it would. But I agree, time for some sleep!

Bill


Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 05:48 AM
I'm sitting here thinking, 'damn, this is a pretty serious situation.'

It's not every year we're faced with a life and death storm. Thinking back on some of the more dubious Gulf Storms from my lifetime - Gibert, Camile, Betsy (though I was a baby), Allen, Andrew - there were some bad boys. Isidore looks like he's going to be one too.

I went and read Joe B's midnight tropical post. You don't hear him talking possible Cat 4 that often. He's hinting at another serious threat with 37W. NHC's experimental wind speed product is close to 135mph at 72 hours. Somebody's gonna pay.

I'm with the TS/Cat 1 maybe 2 crowd in that a minor inconvenience and a few free days off of work drinking in the easy chair and playing with my kids is a small price to pay to witness the most awesome power nature has to offer. But a Cat 3 brings up a lot of new issues. Are all the supplies in order? Do you evacuate, and if so, what will you come back to? How lucky do you feel? It's a tradition in the hurricane prone lands to mark time with a major storm. If your area experiences a 3, 4 or 5, it will be a common experience you will share with thousands of other peope and will be an event that remains etched upon you for the rest of your life. Good luck to all of us.

Steve


Kimster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 05:51 AM
Re: Speaking of wishcasting

Ah hahahahaha..... You need to be upgraded to "Is the weather" asap...too funny... Kimster


Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 05:52 AM
Re: Speaking of wishcasting

http://www.hurricanealley.net/09Ltrpmdl.html

Btw, this is the latest model graphic I could find.

Me.


Kimster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 05:57 AM
Re:Wishcasting etc.

Summarizes my thoughts exactly !

HanKFranK
(User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 06:20 AM
'nuther lateniter

got a situation here.. and our number of cases seems to be multiplying. i'll elaborate.
isidore is still moving slowly wnw.. maybe picked up a little speed in the last few radar frames from the much abused havana radar (hey, im not complaining, they arent being selfish about it.. like, oh, say certain government agencies are with releasing forecast products to the general populace.. but i digress). anyhow been noticing that aside from ukmet the globals dont want a mexican landfall.. even the ones that take it to the BOC do an opal with isidore.. it trims along the yucatan, chills in the bowl, and then comes north at the end of the week. that goes with the idea that one of these shortwaves, or maybe a larger oscillation with the longwave trough replacing itself.. along with a rebuilt ridge in the western atlantic.. will turn isidore up north and then northeast. louisiana has some model crosshairs on it now.. but i still think east of there.
one more thing on isidore.. its crossing of cuba/slow speed have weakened the core.. recon is going to find a weaker system when it arrives. pressure maybe up to 975, winds down in the 80s. but, should restructure its core (lose the double eyewall feature it's been toying with) and be a major hurricane by monday.
rest of the basin: tropical storm kyle will be christened at the 5am advisory. deep convection is there, organization is there. this will be a central atlantic meanderer.. maybe wander sw early next week but probably not even bother bermuda. only interest is how strong it gets, whether it helps pump the ridge in the w atlantic back up faster..
92L.. surprised at how well it's done so far. at first i thought that the deep westerlies in the atlantic were going to kill these waves.. but those are pulling north as the pattern progresses and narrow low latitude ridging is support this wave and the one further east. both have associated low pressure... 92L is particularly troublesome. it will probably develop between 45 and 50w, and enter the caribbean between 14 and 16n late monday or early tuesday.. ships wants it to be a hurricane by then. i dont think so, but think the pattern progression will keep ridging with this system until it probably runs into a TUTT feature that should be organizing as the western atlantic ridge shifts back south to the east of florida. also dont think this will be enough to turn it up.. so this should be lili, and it should keep us busy at least until the end of the month. the further east wave may also try to develop.. but will probably get turned up pretty far to the east.
other areas.. and this should get weird. there is the bastardi pinwheel.. which may or may not be an organized system.. but will probably at least make a run at developing.. and run up from hatteras to cape cod. then there's the avn storm forming near cuba and the bahamas early next week.. that i have a strange and probably goofy theory for. remember that energy that split off the lower end of that trough bypassing isidore earlier.. that had all the convection in the west gulf earlier? also, 98e in that moved into mexico today.. this is the energy that get twirled around by the upper low west of isidore.. entrained in the circulation.. and finally added to the energy left behind the as the upper low east of florida decays and is replaced by the ridge. i know this theory sounds goofy.. but remember keith in 2000.. how that disturbance ran right up behind it, got pushed north into florida, and developed into leslie? thats sort of how the thinking goes.. a bunch of free, non-entrained energy gets focused behind isidore and makes that strange avn siamese twin to isidore.. truly nuts and surely its wrong.. but thats what popped into my head.
aite, why all the activity, you wonder. look at the mjo indexer.. it has progressed eastward and now the atlantic is juiced.
www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/ir_anim_monthly.html
pair that with nao negative and the fact that it's september.. and thats how we are having all of these systems try to go.
a'ite, zillionth huge post by me. time to check the 2am adv..
HF 0613z21september


Kimster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 06:46 AM
Re: 'nuther lateniter

Hank,

I truly enjoy reading each of your posts. From watching hurricane developments over the past 9 years, I have learned one lesson which is you just never know what will happen. I extremly enjoy, and spend hours a day, collecting and analyzing numerous data to try and figure out what will most likely happen. When I think I have a good idea, I often times find mysef reanalyzing the following day for a new conclusion. Since 3:15 UTC, the satellites are not updating. Frustrating. Keep up the great posts!


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 07:09 AM
Re: 'nuther lateniter

Steve, I live up the road from you! Hammond. Saw some neighbors stocking up on hurricane supplies tonite. Looks as though people are beginning to look at this a little closer. My family is ready, but if anything larger than a Cat 1 comes anywhere near this area.....see ya!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 07:52 AM
Re: Subtropical Depression 12 and Isidore

izzy looks mean now it looks like it is going fast but we missed a few frames the core on the last frame looks th best it has

Domino
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 08:43 AM
My own personal cat 5

Well as I posted earlier a large tornado ripped through my state this evening making a nice 180 mile path of destruction. My city was particularly hard hit. I was able to see a very large debris cloud accompanied by the sound of a jet engine as the tornado went south of my home. I was able to get out this evening and survey the destruction to find it starts about 2 blocks from my home. The path of destruction in my town looks to be about a mile wide. Good news for me is none of my family was injured or suffered any more than very minor damage. Somehow nobody was killed or seriously injured by this thing either. For photos of my city you can go to www.indystar.com or www.wrtv.com. My power is still out and I'm posting this from work. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Derek


Rich B
(British Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 09:54 AM
Izzy headed south of due west?

well the latest available IR Sat loops seem to indicate that izzy may be heading just south of due west. This may be in part, due to the concentric eyewalls mentioned in NHC's latest discussion. If the inner eyewall has collapsed then the outer eye wall would be contracting, and may be what has caused the slight WSW jog. Will be interesting to see if this motion keeps up. If it does the centre will get perilously close to the Yucatan coast.

As for STS Kyle, well it is in great environment, and looks set to strengthen. It is, however, no immediate threat.

Then of course, there is 92L. A good looking system that will likely be the next named storm, and headed for the islands, so it needs watching.

BTW, i have given up on my Isidore landfall near Mobile, at least for the time being

Rich B

StormWarn2000


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 11:26 AM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

Looks like Izzy might take a vacation to Cancun before he comes on home here on the Gulf Coast. How much could he strengthen after a Yuc landfall on his way north ? Would he restrengthen to cat 3 ?

Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:37 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

Good morning,
Isidore shouldn't really make a Yucatan Peninsula landfall. I believe the eye should stay north of it, but the southern quad will raise hell along the northern Yucatan Coast. In the even a Yucatan landfall does occur (not likely), Isidore would re-itensify anyways. Yucatan Peninsula is a very flat piece of land, most storms that do go across usually make it.

Thoughts on Isidore: WNW and eventually W through 36 hours, perhaps a slight WSW movement after that. From 48-72 hours I expect a very slow W and WNW movement to continue. After that, late on Monday or Tuesday the next longwave/trough should grab Isidore and send him N and NE. I'm still sticking with a landfall anywhere from Pensacola to Cedar Key. Isidore will probably remain a major hurricane the whole time.

Other tropical stuff: Subtrop. storm Kyle looks okay this morning. NHC says SW turn eventually, but Kyle is so far out another trough is bound to pick him up and shove him NE.

92L looks very concentrated this morning...and I expect a depression today or tomorrow. This one should continue W and WNW through 72 hours. I don't think this will be a hurricane until it is near the islands, after that intensification could be much more explosive. There is a possibility of a SE US/Bahamas threat in 7-8 days...but we have to deal with Isidore first.

Wave E and SE of Bahamas need convective persistence. We'll leave it at that. Still could develop down the line, but needs to put on an impressive show at night, not just during the day.

Eastern Atlantic wave flaring up this morning, but low pressure associated with it looks like it is pretty far north 12-13 N. If the system in front develops, this one will go fishing. Always happens that way.

That's how the basin looks today...yeah, looks like a real hellbender. It appears we are going to have numerous tropical problems next week....Isidore possibly bearing down big time on NE GOMEX...hurricane threat in the islands...and monitoring the other areas closely.

Strange the way this season and last didn't need to have an active August and early September to be bad seasons. I think we are in a pattern shift that favors more late season activity...and the steering patterns are letting the Atlantic stuff get further west. The Caribbean stuff is also getting further north now....Keith was thought to be a GOMEX threat but never was, Michelle made an honest effort to scare S. Florida, and Isidore may just be the real thing.

I wonder what this season would be like with a La Nina...talk about bombardment. Of course, if the Atlantic is shifting into a new pattern, all we will have to do is wait for another La Nina to come. The results won't pretty when we do get one.

Enough babbling for now.

Kevin


clyde w.
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:48 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

The 73 hour forecast puts Izzy just west of the NW tip of the Yucatan in 72 hours. For those who believe that Florida is out of the woods remember that the remains of Mitch were in that exact location and hit south Florida as a moderate TS. No one on the gulf coast is out of the woods yet on this one.

On a side note, wow, what a tropical Atlantic to wake up to this morning! There are no less than 4 other potential systems to watch other than Izzy. Could we really make it to the "O" storm this season after such a slow start? Amazing.


clyde w.
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:49 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

Oh geez, 72 hour, not 73. Duh!

57497479
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 12:54 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

The TWC said this AM that more of the models are starting to agree that Isidore may be picked up by a trough next week and then start to head North any where from Texas to the Fl panhandle. If that does happen what position in the Gulf will Isidore need to be located in order to make certain northern landfalls? At this point the TWC did not mention NNE only N. But I guess it has to go a little N. first before it goes NE. There is also a possibility that it will not get picked up, but as I said earlier the path is starting to become a little more clearer. I would appreciate any one's comments regarding this movement and possibility of a Northern or NE landfall.
Toni


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:07 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

Toni,
Isidore should move north at first and then NE. The intensity of this storm combined with the trough should be able to ship this thing NE. I'll say it again, Florida is not out of the woods.

Kevin


57497479
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:09 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

The St. Petersburg news paper says this morning that the threat to Florida continues to diminish.
Can anyone tell me why garbage like this makes head line news. In my opinion it is just way to early to start making comments like that. I wonder how many people will take that statement to the bank and not keep as close tabs on the storm now. I'm sorry for my out burst here but it's comments like this that can really make me angry. If it comes to pass and Isidore keeps heading away from Fl than fine but I also think that it is as much of a mistake to give people a false sense of security as it is to get them all hyped up. Toni


Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:13 PM
Surprise! a 5 hour night...

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/float-ir4-loop.html

You can see what basically to me, looks like the transition from Cat 2 to Cat 3. Winds might not be up there yet, but check out the organization of the eye wall. Man, I'd be pretty nervous if I was in Cancun.

After the wife gets home from work in a bit, we're going ot measure a couple of windows and then I' going buy some more water and ice to get that out of the way just in case.

As speculated by many people the last few days, Izzy may well have a very large sphere of influence at landfall (if) along the Gulf at landfall - whereever it is. Wow. It's the big one (one of 'em anyway).

Of note, GFDL rather weakens the storm a down the line. That's worth mentioning as it always overdoes projected intensity.

Steve


57497479
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:16 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

Hey Kevin,
I'm thinking if it get that far East, than around the Big Bend area. maybe farther down the coast. I guess landfall willl depend where he is at, when he makes his turn. Toni


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:23 PM
Re: Surprise! a 5 hour night...

Yo Steve..... 5 hours is starting to look good right now...

Izzy very impressive on the IR and Vis .... however I don't see how he can get much stronger than he is right now if he continues to head towards the YP and half his circulation were to remain over land during the wsw track...

Models are getting ridiculus.... maybe he is going to take that projected loop that was forecast 36 hours ago... I doubt it

from what I could detect from the latest loops he looks to be heading wsw but maybe at a little slower pace....

all i really know is that I'm tired......



57497479
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:24 PM
Re: Surprise! a 5 hour night...

Now is the time to prepare. Isidore is giving everone in the Gulf time to do that. We should continue to take the threat very serious. I have been working 12 hour days and then it takes me a while to get caught up on all the post that has been written during the day. There are some nights I have only gotten 3-4 hrs. of sleep. I guess I should stop that just in case I really need them down the road. Toni

Rick
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:24 PM
Re: My own personal cat 5

As someone who moved from SE Florida to SE Wisconsin at the start of this season, all I can say is that tornadoes scare the bejeezus out of me more than canes ever did! Although the damage is geographically smaller in scope, they are far more numerous and what little warning you get is barely enough to get yourself, Toto and Aunty Em to the storm cellar while the house gets turned into splinters.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not downplaying the destructive force of canes. I'm just saying that as a matter of personal preference, I believe the odds of my survival were better when facing a Cat3 than a T3. Preparation time is one key, but long term preparedness is also necessary. As a witness and a rebuilder of the destruction of Andrew, I felt like I knew what to do to increase the survivability of my home both in the storm and in the aftermath. I have no such confidence when faced with the thought of a tornado.

To Derek and others from Indiana, glad nobody was killed and good luck with the rebuilding.

Rick

PS...nice to be back on these boards




Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:35 PM
Hey Derek...

Glad all is well with your family. Thanks for the link to the star. The photo gallery tells it all. 2 blocks is way too close for comfort.

Steve


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 21 2002 01:46 PM
Re: My own personal cat 5

Hey Rick, I agree with you totally.... from a personal safety point I would much rather face a Cat 3 hurricane than a F3 tornado... any time...

At least with a Cat 3 you do have choices, you can leave, you can prepare, you can take measures to protect your property..... with a F3 you have little if any warning....

I've been though many hurricanes over the years and they are just a way of life along the coast... but I have never experienced a tornado... and never want to either....

one of the big concerns that I have about a major hurricane is that all the coast areas of gulf have grown significantly since the last major... I know along the MS coast we have thousands of new residents that are clueless about what a hurricane is all about... not to mention the tremedous building development that occur in MS as the result of the gaming industry... If we were to get a Cat 4 storm it would have a devistating effect and I would expect to see most of the Casinos, which are on the south side of HWY 90, to be relocated over to the north side....


joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:13 PM
Re: My own personal cat 5

Good morning to everyone.
Derek, saw some video on what happened to your area this morning. We are all glad you and your family are OK, and I don't think I could express any better how we feel than the previous posters already have.
As I.ve been trying to wake up this morning, the first impression that hit me was this:sitting up here in NFLA it sure does look like I could be looking at the chance, still a slim one hopefully, that Izzy would be closing in from the SW and Lili would be coming at me from the SE, say from Wed. evening on till next weekend. If Izzy is going to rotate around the high and move north, would not Lili rotate around the same high and not just run to the open Atantic? Thought I throw that out there, the timing, among a zillion other things, would all have to mesh together for that to happen.
Joe in Jax
Hey Gators, it's today or never......


OrlandoDude
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:17 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

Orlando Sentinel three days ago had a headline that says Izzy no threat to Florida.. I thought that was too early also. But maybe they kidnapped the real NHC Staff and placed clones in their place.

Kimster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:19 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

I live on the water just north of Clearwater, FL. I believe the St. Petersburg times made that headline to reassure the tourist dollars keep coming in. The local media are not that confident. "Most" people here are not ignorant when it comes to the potential threat of a hurricane coming their way. For example. while shopping at a local grocery store yesterday, I noticed that all the D size batteries were entirely sold out. In addition, the water inventories were starting to get low. Until someone states that the eye of the storm is over their head, we all need to pay close attention and who knows with this storm, that may not be conclusive... Izzy seems to have been around along time. Anyone have any statistical information on the longest lasting hurricane?

Kimster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:45 PM
Re: My own personal cat 5

I don't get embarrassed by asking "dumb" questions, so here it goes....

Was looking at this link:

http://www.essc.psu.edu/rhart-cgi-bin/gfdltc2.cgi?time=2002092106-twelve12l&field=Sea+Level+Pressure&hour=Animation

Then read this:
Subtropical Storm Kyle is drifting north, but is eventually expected to turn southwest while becoming a tropical system, then a hurricane in 72 hours. It is far from any land over the open Atlantic. Two tropical low-pressure areas could become tropical depressions soon.

WHAT IF: Izzy hangs around in the GOM for a while; Kyle crosses FL into the GOM; the cold front dips deep enough into the GOM all at the same time? Then we could also consider the possibility of another TS moving in on the action. Any thoughts on what we would call this situation and what the conditions might be like?


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:51 PM
Media=Nuts

St. Petersburg Times is crazy! Isidore is no threat to Florida? I think he is a very great threat. That's the typical one-sided media. They say storms can't change direction. If it's headed west now, it will stay in that direction. Wonder what SPT will have to say when the deep trough approaches the northern GOMEX Tuesday or Wednesday and turns Isidore NE towards the Panhandle or Big Bend.

Also, Isidore seems to be getting larger. The SE side of the storm is huge. If hit the Panhandle, Central Florida would feel effects from him!

Kevin


wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:53 PM
Re: My own personal cat 5

Well, its not a dumb question, but it is so remote that I cannot imagine a synoptic situation that would have to occur for that to happen, so I really can't make a guess as to how it would play out.

Also, Hurricane Ginger in the N Atlantic is the longest in that basin...28 days in 1971...the longest worldwide was Hurricane/Typhoon John in 1994, which lasted 31 days...It formed in the Northeast Pacific, reached hurricane force there, moved across the dateline and was renamed Typhoon John, and then finally recurved back across the dateline and renamed Hurricane John again.


WXMAN RICHIE
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:54 PM
MAJOR CANE

WINDS AT 115 MPH!!!!!!!

joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 02:55 PM
Re: My own personal cat 5

Florida would post a sign at the AL/GA border that said "Closed: Gone Fishing. Bact in October"
Kyle doesn't bother me as much as the wave soon to be known as Lili, even though I guess both could get caught under a high to the north.


joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:02 PM
Re: MAJOR CANE

Noticed also that this is as far south as they think it's going to get in their forecast. No loop?

Rick
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:10 PM
Re: My own personal cat 5

It always comes down to experience. The coastal growth will continue and the influx of the "uninitiated" will too.

I can only speak from my experience in SoFla, but I remember before Andrew that the emergency managers were always concerned about complacency. Well, that was all changed in a "trial by fire" way. Stricter building codes and higher insurance costs are a way of life now. 120mph wind-loading design and storm shutters are code enforced. More people are having their "hurricane parties" at Home Depot than at the liquor store!

How does this help MS? ...and LA and AL? I guess that depends on how willing the building offiials are to go against the developers and drive up costs. And what kind of pressure is/was exerted by the insurance industry. It never seems to be the popular mandate until the feces has already hit the forced ventilation machine!

I guess nothing motivates more than money and nightmares!

Rick


Rasvar
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:15 PM
Re: MAJOR CANE

The thing with newspapers and radio stations is that they will just look at the forecast, see no mention of Florida and give an all clear. I think what is proper is like what WFTV in Orlando had last night. They had the NHC Director on saying the "Floridians should be able to relax, have a good weekend and check back at the end of the weekend to see what is going on" That sounded very reasonable. It is all relative to how you are looking. I would say Florida is safe for, probably, the next 72 hours. I'll keep checking. Just not as often as when it was a closer threat.

Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:16 PM
Re: MAJOR CANE (MAJOR problems)

Notice at the 72 hour point...they forecast sustained winds at 125 knots (145 MPh) and gusts to 150 knots (170-175 MPh!!). Notice the wind radius as well...34 knot winds are supposed to extend out to a huge extent in 72 hours. All I can say is...if you live in the northern or eastern GOMEX, at the FIRST hint that this storm will turn N and/or NE, make your preperations! It is not out of the question this storm could be as strong as Mitch was at one point...except it could be headed towards the US! I don't mean to scare anybody, but by the middle to the end of this week we may well have catastrophe on our hands.

I also don't think Isidore will get quite as far west as NHC is forecasting. I'm pretty sure they're uncertain about the 72 hour position.

Kevin


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:18 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

thats wrong kim,,sorry i live in tampa. No one here thinks a huricane will hit. Last year when joe canteri from TWC came she interviewed people on clearwater beach and they had no worries about Gabrielle and was quite amazed he told the listeners. He said since W C Florida hasnt had a landfall come close in a long time, no one cares. We watch, but we know it wont come this way. And yes unless its only 100 miles out, then there will be a mad panic to get to the stores. We just wont get hit.

Southern4sure
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:19 PM
Re: MAJOR CANE

Where did you see that at Keven? I couldnt find that info.

Thanks, Southern


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:23 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

joe is a he. I know just cant type. LOL

Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:27 PM
Re: Info

Southern4Sure:
That information is from the latest forecast advisory from NHC. It was just issued at 11:00AM.

Kevin


Justin in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:34 PM
Re: My own personal cat 5

Rick,
You are exactly right! Also, the building codes along the northern Gulf are not as strong as Florida and SFL in particular. That will be the headline if this storm does do what everyone here is sayihg. Those who think their all wood constructed home is safe only need to look at some of the pictures from Andrews aftermath of the CBS constructed homes. Although we can't count votes down in here in Miami...we do have better building codes! LOL


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:39 PM
Re: Info

Hey everyone, I am sure some of you really need a good cuppa Java to wake you up after staring at loops for the last who knows how long. Thanks to everyone on this board for the wonderful input and diverse thought trains as to this storm....well done everyone.
Does anyone have a link of a infared satelite or vis satelite pic of "Izzy" I want to mail it to my mom, she does not know what a hurricane looks like (she thinks they are the same things as tornadoes ) Anyway I think a good sat pic of Izzy will help her understand why I sit in front of the comp all day. The only links I could find were animated loops, im looking for a still image I can just copy and paste to send to her....
Take care everyone..... I think im going to send a few bottles of Rogaine over to the NHC, because Im quite sure there are a few tufts of hair missing on a few forecasters heads right now......

Regards
BD


joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 21 2002 03:42 PM
And next up is...

SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS ASSOCIATED WITH A WESTWARD-MOVING TROPICAL
WAVE AREA LOCATED ABOUT 1100 MILES EAST OF THE WINDWARD ISLANDS.
THIS SYSTEM HAS CONTINUED TO BECOME BETTER ORGANIZED AND CONDITIONS
APPEAR FAVORABLE FOR A TROPICAL DEPRESSION TO FORM DURING THE NEXT
DAY OR SO.

I hope when the NHC said "squashed spider" in their discussion about Kyle they weren't referring to me!

Joe in Jax
Jax Jags AFC South Powerhouse esp. after we drown the NYJ in a week.


Kimster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:27 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

Wrong? How do you know what my friends, neighbors and the people here are talking about? You live in Tampa. That's 25 miles away from me. Any chance you shopped at the Publix at ALt.19/Curlew or Main St./CR 1 tyesterday? We know how to prep for a potential storm. But this Is Pinellas County and not HIllsborough. I live on an island in Dunedin. The water is less than 30ft. from me as I type. A bad rain storm causes flooding in my neighborhood. I have lost 3 vehciles and many personal items since 93' alone . It doesn't take much here. It's obviously a different situation for us over here. And yes, all of my neighbors are concerned and watching very carefully. Most have already taken some level of preparations to mitigate damages should Izzy even pass near us.

Kimster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 21 2002 04:29 PM
Re: Izzy headed south of due west?

Also,

Your comment about interviews with those on Clearwater Beach, please. They are mainly hotels and motels loaded with northern tourists.



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