MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Mon Aug 16 2004 11:03 PM
Earl Falls Apart, Danielle Cat 2 Fish Spinner

Quick update to let you know that Tropical Storm Earl has degenerated into a tropical wave, but still has a chance to regenerate as its winds are still fairly strong.

Danielle is out to sea, but maintains itself as a category 2 hurricane. And another wave near the Cape Verde islands is worth watching for later.

Charley is still the big story in Florida and stories and reports are welcome here.

Charley's Coordinate History and final tracking map.


General Links
Current Aircraft Recon Info

NRL Monterey Marine Meteorology Division Forecast Track of Active Systems (Good Forecast Track Graphic and Satellite Photos)

Check the Storm Forum from time to time for comments on any new developing system.

Follow worldwide SST evolution here:

Global SST Animation

NASA GHCC Interactive Satellite images at:

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Some forecast models:
NGM, AVN, MRF, ETA ECMWF
AVN, CMC, GFDL, JMA, NOGAPS, UKMET

DoD Weather Models (NOGAPS, AVN, MRF)

Multi-model plots from WREL

Other commentary at Independentwx.com, Robert Lightbown/Crown Weather Tropical Update Accuweather's Joe Bastardi (now subcriber only unfortunately), Hurricane Alley North Atlantic Page, Cyclomax (Rich B.), Hurricane City , mpittweather , Gary Gray's Millennium Weather, storm2k, Barometer Bob's Hurricane Hollow, Snonut,
Even more on the links page.


LI Phil
(User)
Mon Aug 16 2004 11:15 PM
Re: Earl Falls Apart, Danielle Cat 2 Fish Spinner

Thanks for the new thread Mike! You were awesome in keeping the board running through Charley.

Finally some GOOD news. A nice fish spinner and the (for now) end of Earl. I'm definitely of the mind that he will regenerate, at least up to TS status, possibly more, but he's Yucatan bound an probably only a worry to South Texas, if that.

Anyone with personal accounts, stories, even secondary or tertiary-hand accounts of the storm are all welcome here right now. If you guys & gals need to emote, I pretty much think the whole board is in agreement that it is absolutely fine to do so.

On a side note, I received a number of PMs this afternoon from "survivors" thanking "me" for the great coverage. I didn't do nothin' other than sit here in my monitors chair making sure we kept the Orlando Waitings and Roberts off the air. Via this post, I'll pass along all your kind thoughts to Mike, John, Ed & HF...and you guys were outstanding throughout it all!

Finally, it looks like the tropix will be mellow for the rest of the week, though Earl does bear watching and Frances may be borne from the wave which exited Africa yesterday. At least I can say with relative confidence that Floridians do not need to worry about Earl.

After what happened with Charley, I hope no one on these boards wants to root on a storm to greater and greater strength...maybe a fish spinner...but that's it. We're now just entering the heart of the season, and I venture to guess that if the season were to end today, we'd consider it "active." The Good Lord only knows what's in store in the coming weeks...almost don't even want to think of it.

Again, anyone who's just getting their power back or who hasn't been able to post for whatever reason, please feel free to do so.

OK, peace to all...as long as you are not injured or dead, you should probably consider yourself among the lucky.

LI Phil


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Mon Aug 16 2004 11:49 PM
Re: Earl Falls Apart, Danielle Cat 2 Fish Spinner

Been lurking for over a week. Hope everyone is ok. This little corner of the www has been very good to me. See, Family still live around Tampa and having been a cloud watcher all my life, hurricanes are especially interesting.

Your stories, advice and knowledge have been very consoling for many a person besides myself, I'm sure.

Anyway, now it is nice to vicariuosly live thru Charley via your words. Glad to hear that this forum is inviting you to speak out. Thanks admins and mods. You're doing a good job.


RedingtonBeachGuy
(Moderator)
Tue Aug 17 2004 12:06 AM
Re: Stories

On Aug 7th I questioned if Charlie was going to make the turn towards Tampa.. he did. On Aug 11th we boarded up and ran to Orlando before the rush. Glad we did as our beloved Gov. forgot to invoke the National Guard to make I-4 one way.

In Orlando, we stayed at the Residence Inn at Lake Buena Vista and, as you know now, the eye went right over us. A weather channel reporter reported gusts at 95 mph there - 75 mph sustained. Trees were knocked down and the roof of some adjoining motels lost tiles, but overall the staircases were full of hotel guests and we all were fine.

The hotel provided free dinners and breakfasts which was very nice. They also gave us flashlights and glow sticks in case the power went out - but it never did. To top it off, drinks were free the 12th from 5 - 6 pm.

Observation: DOT needs to open major Intrastate roads for the first 4 hours of daylight the day after a storm for emergency vehicles and utility vehicles. I-4 was ridiculously packed with over 250 tree, electric, and emergency vehicles trying to get south to the damaged areas. Folks returning to Pinellas, Hillsborough, and other outlying counties could have easily waited till 10 am to start their trek home thus allowing the needed workers a free ride on the roads.

FYI: I took the turnpike to 50 and over to I-75 and cruised all the way home from Orlando with no stopping.

I returned to find only 9 homes (one of which was mine) boarded up on the barrier islands here (Madeira Beach, Redington Beach, Treasure Island, etc..). Some might have pulled it before I returned at 2 pm Saturday but I doubt many did that fast. One of my neighbor's here said he didn't care - 'that's why I pay high insurance rates' he said as he sat in the outdoor furniture that would have become missles if the hurricane hit.

Considering the amount of energy that passed from west to east, we are very lucky the death toll is as low as it is. I made a donation to the Red Cross and hope all that read this will do the same.


recmod
(Weather Guru)
Tue Aug 17 2004 12:35 AM
Re: Stories

Here's an update to my story in the on-going Charley saga.

3 days after the hurricane and finding a gas station with gasoline to sell is near impossible. Last night I drove around for almost an hour before giving up. By now, one of my two vehicles was out of gas, which necessitated car-pooling in my household. After work today (first day back since the storm), I finally found the service station right in front of my neighborhood had received a gas delivery. I ran home, grabbed the car needing gas and got into a looooooooong gas line. I noticed there was a police officer guarding the pumps. After an hour in line, I finally got to the pumps to find they were nearly sold out...with only one remaining pump running. I talked to the cop, who told me that fights had broken out over getting gas. This is a really sad commentary on the state of affairs. Instead of pulling together, people are bickering over gas. The Orlando Sentinel newspaper today is filled with such stories.
After getting the car filled with gas, I went home.....only to find my house with no power. Those who read my earlier posts might remember that I was one of only 10 houses in my entire 1400 home neighborhood that did not lose electricity....and now I lose it 3 days after the storm! I called the power company and was informed that a substation somewhere in town was severly damaged and some sort of chain reaction backlashed through the system, knocking the entire grid out. They have no idea when power will be restored.
School has now been cancelled until at least Aug 24.....a week from Tuesday! That has many families in a quandry. One of the managers at my place of employment had to bring her two children to work with her today because her home has no water or electricity and she didn't want them home unsupervised.
The restaurants that are able to open have been swamped with business...mostly from people without resources to cook for themselves. (I have never before seen a line at Mc Donalds stretch around the block!!!) Now, a number of those restaurants are being forced to shut their doors because they are running out of food!
It seems like the hardships from this storm have no end. Hopefully, we have learned a few things from Charley...and take a few extra precautions to be better prepared....the next time.

--Lou


Tropics Guy
(Storm Tracker)
Tue Aug 17 2004 12:35 AM
Re: Charley aftermath, Earl and new wave

Just wanted to thank MIke, ED & all the moderators(HF & Phil) on this forum for keeping the site up and running during Charley, it was extremely busy and a few times I couldn't get on probably due to system overload, but of course that can be expected during an emergency situation like we had.
Here in Southeast Fla. we are all breathing a sigh of relief that we dodged this one, and of course we are all concerned with the situation in SW Fla, and feel for all the folks there, many of them retired who came to FL to spend their last few years in peace and quiet, and now they have to rebuild their lives again.
Since Andrew the building code here in SE Fla is the strictest in the country, and there will probably be changes in the codes on the west coast of Fla now too. It remains to be seen if they wiil continue to allow mobile homes in that area, the reason i'm saying that is since Andrew , there are few if any mobile homes in South Dade county now, they've been all replaced with Concrete block construction.
Anyway back on the tropics, think that Earl will regenerate in the NW Carib, cross the Yucatan then threaten either the mex/tex coast., also I think that we will see a new invest soon on the new CV wave that seems to be tracking more west than Danielle did at the development stage, also it is starting at a slightly lower latitude. 6 weeks of busy action ahead of us, hopefully no more US hits.

TG


HanKFranK
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 01:08 AM
personal/business

before the usual analysis i s'pose i'll toss in some info on relatives and their experiences. mostly a laundry list of minor to moderate damage. cousin in orlando lost a large tree.. blocking the yard, roof damage on the house. power still out. uncle in winter park has only minor damage, power back on last night. grandparents in bartow.. limbs down, no power. aunt west of bowling green.. orange grove nearly destroyed, house fared o.k. utilities gone. uncle west of bowling green.. still no word. aunt in avon park.. most of roof blew off, house uninhabitable. that's the worst known.. away from the eye too. everyone is alive and unhurt... expect the unknowns to turn out fine.. for that i'm grateful.
basin looks a lot quieter now with an open wave and a recurving fish spinner. earl had us all excited a couple days ago.. yesterday even. naturally, it's a speeding/open wave. rabbit voodoo strikes again (run rabbit run). it has a decent chance of closing up within a couple days.. but is looking strictly yucatan/BOC for the forecast period. too much uncertainty to say if it will try coming out of the BOC, if it can redevelop, if there is enough weakness in the ridge (or not too much low level easterly flow). too many layers of if.. easier to just say weak/mexico.. which is probably what will happen.
danielle.. classic neat recurvature far out to sea. most modeling has it going far enough north to guarantee that it's extratropical successor would be a weak occurrence as it nears europe. that's the way it's looking, at least.
development threats.. as the nhc discussion says, gfs keeps developing the wave currently south of the cv islands. it may falter some, but as it gets near 40w we can start looking for the organization the globals are calling for. not expecting a danielle slam-dunk recurvature out of this if it develops. in a day or two another significant wave will come off, though models don't seem very excited about it.
nothing that exciting anywhere else. other suspect areas would be sheer paranoia to mention. one maybe.. gfs insistence on not recurving danielle has me thinking it may be picking up on entrainment of some of the storm's energy into the loop of upper trough setting up shop southwest of the azores.. that's a remote plug for hybrid development, from out of the twilight zone. just a creeping thought.
my prayers are with those who had to contend with charley, may you all be blessed in your time of need, in the aftermath.
HF 0107z17august


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Tue Aug 17 2004 01:32 AM
Re: Stories

(duplicate post removed by moderator -- btw great post bill)

BillD
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 01:38 AM
Re: Stories

Although it was a long time ago, it seems like yesterday as I can't help but remember back to Andrew reading all these stories, I remember the lines waiting for gas and for ice, my homeless firends and familiy, the National Guard checkpoints, the incessant helicopters, I could go on and on.

My uncle who lives NW of Arcadia and everyone in the small community he lives in (just a few houses out in the middle of nowhere) are all OK, and their homes are mostly OK, although they have not been able to check out my uncle's house because there is 10 feet of water between where they are and his house (they live in the flood plain of Horse Creek, a tributary of the Peace River and it floods all the time). My cousin drove up early Sunday morning and took them a pickup truck full of supplies, they had another friend who was bringing them three generators this morning (they live so far from town and the entire power system was knocked out so it will be a long time). The only other sad thing is that most of the trees are down, I know that sounds petty after hearing about people injured and worse, and I can't begin to describe this place that he lives, but it was full of old, twisted, huge oak trees, a really beautiful place, and it sounds like it is flattened. This is what had the most effect on me after Andrew, the destruction of entire forests that had taken hundreds of years to grow.

Bill


Jamiewx
(Storm Tracker)
Tue Aug 17 2004 02:34 AM
Video

Here is some more video someone took from Charley in Punta Gorda as it was coming through

http://www.extremestorms.com/Mark%20Rackley%20view%20of%20Charley.wmv

and in case you didn't see the first one

http://www.extremestorms.com/Charlie%20Core-%20Punta%20Gorda.wmv

it all comes from http://www.extremestorms.com/ this site also has some dangerously close video of storm surge too and much more.


LI Phil
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 02:54 AM
Re: Video

Jamie,

I'm sure the folks who just went thru Charley will appreciate the extra coverage of the storm. Maybe another forum for this coverage???

Not trying to be difficult, you're one of the best posters here...but maybe something so close to home should be put into another forum...

Peace out y'all,

LI Phil


BillD
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 03:09 AM
Re: Video

That is one of the first video clips I've seen that even approaches the sound reality of a hurricane. There is no way to describe the "howling" of the wind, you can only experience it. It is much like the second half of the video clip, but you feel it as much as hear it, and of course you can't feel it when it is just a video. I got goose bumps listening to that second half.

BTW, these guys are crazy. I certainly hope that these cameras are prelocated and then run remotely.

Bill


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Tue Aug 17 2004 07:05 AM
Re: Danielle and earl

Remains of Earl continue to decrease in intensity by satellite estimates. Latest, 0615Z, still showing a moderately large area of lightning on the leading edge of the "wave formally known as Earl". At this rate of decline NHC/TPC will probably cancel the Recon flight for this morning.

DATE/TIME LAT LON CLASSIFICATION STORM
17/0615 UTC 14.9N 77.3W T1.0/2.0 EARL
17/0600 UTC 21.7N 39.5W T4.5/5.0 DANIELLE
16/2345 UTC 20.2N 38.4W T4.5/5.0 DANIELLE
16/2345 UTC 14.7N 75.1W T2.0/2.5 EARL


GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Tue Aug 17 2004 11:21 AM
Re: Danielle and earl

Please forgive the nervous questions, but I am seeing a thunderstorm in the BOC this morning and I am seeing earl's remains still causing subsidence in the WV loop, (I think). Can anyone meterologically competent, address the issue regarding the possibility of redevelopments. The short answer is: anything is possible and I know the short answer. But, Is there anything long term out there that would physically change the atmosphere for allowing Earl to regenerate, short of a giant Vacuum cleaner, say: a strong winter like cold front?

LI Phil
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 02:22 PM
Earl's future

GG,

As far as Earl is concerned, it has the proverbial snowball's chance of affecting Florida. In fact, he may not regenerate at all. The open wave that was once Earl will be to the YP by Friday and that's when any redevelopment could really begin. At worst it's a Texas storm, at best it just fades away.

Now, the GFS in 10 days has a hurricane hit on the Florida coast...take that with a grain of salt for now, but just know that the models are starting to pick up on something. We're entering the meat of the season, so all those waves need to be watched. But as far as Earl...fahgedaboudit.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Tue Aug 17 2004 02:26 PM
Power back

Just got power back and finally able to got online. I'm here in N. Ft. Myers, just south of Punta Gorda and man what a ride it was. HankFrank you were damn close with your call on a Sanibel landfall. Congrats!. Sympathy to those in areas that lost everything. I was lucky. Well I got to clean up now that I have water will post again later. PS thanks for any video and pics posted as I have seen very little and will post some of mine if interested.
Again thanks to all
Maxx


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Tue Aug 17 2004 05:04 PM
Re: Earl's future

Hey phil, what about danelle doing a loop and coming right around back to us in florida? The met on channel 12 here in jax mentioned something liek this in one of his reports. Maybe thats what the model is seeing.

joepub1
(Storm Tracker)
Tue Aug 17 2004 05:07 PM
Re: Power back

All of Florida is still in a state of shock. The SW corner is in really bad shape, and needs a bye for the rest of the season. I work for Publix, and we have had 100 stores suffer affects from Charley, mostly from power problems, some from employees who have to find somewhere to live, but not much damage to our stores themselves (no stores put out of busness). I grade my store a "D" as far as being prepared for this; we found that when the person who orders the batteries is from Sweden, the word 'hurricane' doesn't exactly provoke fear from the guy. Lesson learned on that one. My store manager is now coming to me asking what I think of Earl and anything else out there. Kinda funny, he couldn't hear me last week.

Danielle is off to the fish, don't know what will be left in a few days or if any of it will threaten Europe. Earl ran himself out of the picture for the moment. I for one don't see anything coming from him that would harm the US.

In the Atlantic, at about 10N 30W NRL needs to put up an invest on that wave. It's in this season's favorite breeding ground and today seems to be pulling it's act together with a large blowup of convection. So far on my gut feeling scale, Charley pegged it early, Earl never did anything for me, but this one could be a problem. Ridge should rebuild nicely above her (Frances?) and a fish it will not be. If it stays weak, it stays low no matter what. Develops, and the islands as far north as PR could feel her. It seems that we are going to continue to pay a price for these low waves coming off of Africa; what is going on with that?


rmbjoe1954
(Weather Master)
Tue Aug 17 2004 05:22 PM
Re: Earl's future

Hello LIPhil:

Question: In retrospect, what did the GFS indicate 10 days before Charlie slamming into Punta Gorda/Port Charlotte?


Rabbit
(Weather Master)
Tue Aug 17 2004 06:45 PM
Re: Earl's future

Earl does not have the slightest chance of regeneration because it is about to move into Nicaragua in about a day

LI Phil
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 06:49 PM
Re: Earl's future

That's a good question, and I really don't remember...I don't usually put a lot of stock in the GFS anyway (many think it stands for "Good For S---"). Alex had only just formed and I was probably only looking at the short-range models. It was actually Bastardi who pointed it out in today's update; for verification purposes, lets just see what's doing what on the 26-27th...

Invest 95L back up on NRL...no Dvorak's yet, Danielle still strong at 4.5/5.0. Earl's still breathing...

PS: just looked at the loops and saw Bugsy's post, and it sure looks like a dead on collision. Just too far south now.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Tue Aug 17 2004 06:50 PM
Re: Power back

I agree that the wave in the east Atlantic could be a problem down the road. I seem also to feel, based on the current pattern, that Florida may not get a "bye" this year. When it comes to tropical systems the hurricanes don't remember, but the pattern can. I have concerns about the Palm Beaches this year.

Rabbit
(Weather Master)
Tue Aug 17 2004 06:59 PM
my forecast update

JULY 31 FORECAST:
AUG 5/3/2
SEP 5/3/2
OCT 3/2/1
NOV 1/1/0

as I said before, i will no longer update the monthly forecast. However, if any of these numbers are exceeded, i will obviously have to increase the yearly forecast

looks like this will need to be done if we get any more systems this month (Its the 17th--we will very likely see at least two more)

comparison to my 7-31 forecast for august
5 storms--already there
3 hurricanes--already there
2 major hurricanes--already there
if this were the 31st, I would have hit the nail on the head. But with 5 already this month (several recent seasons were on D or E at the END of the month) this forecast may have to be increased very soon


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Tue Aug 17 2004 07:23 PM
Re: my forecast update

Another charley link
IKONOS Satellite Image Photo comparisons of the area from the 15th and from 2002


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Tue Aug 17 2004 07:59 PM
Re: my forecast update

forecasts are more accurate at the end of the season, than at the beginning.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Tue Aug 17 2004 08:29 PM
Re: Power back

Quote:

I agree that the wave in the east Atlantic could be a problem down the road. I seem also to feel, based on the current pattern, that Florida may not get a "bye" this year. When it comes to tropical systems the hurricanes don't remember, but the pattern can. I have concerns about the Palm Beaches this year.




Yeah, if people somehow think Florida is now immune to hurricane hits the rest of the year - I bet a lot of people are harboring that delusion. September, remember. October is no bye month either!


LI Phil
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 09:03 PM
Re: my forecast update

Quote:

forecasts are more accurate at the end of the season, than at the beginning.




I agree. Generally, if one updates one's forecast after each storm, one would have a perfect "forecast" at the end of the season. And they say hindsight is 20/20.


Ronn
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 09:17 PM
Re: Power back

Quote:

Yeah, if people somehow think Florida is now immune to hurricane hits the rest of the year - I bet a lot of people are harboring that delusion. September, remember. October is no bye month either!




Unfortunately, late September and October is the prime time for landfalls along the west coast of Florida. Troughs make their way farther south this time of year and can force systems northeast across the state. Let us hope that the area devastated by Charley is spared during the second half of the season.

Ronn


HanKFranK
(User)
Tue Aug 17 2004 10:06 PM
quieter still

we have an active cat 2 hurricane, but it's quiet compared to the activity of the last two weeks. danielle moving northward now, shear influence apparent on the system. globals that don't shear it to bits and spin down the circulation are taking it over the azores as a weakening tropical storm.. that's the official and that's what sounds good to me. a rapid spin-down would result in a remnant low ambling around in the eastern atlantic for what could be days, but i'm not on board with that idea.
earl remnants.. running westward as an open wave like some of the globals were predicting.. the rabbit voodoo hex did the trick. some of the wave energy may work it's way across the lower rim of the BOC in 36-48hrs.. with some lingering troughiness in the area there's a remote shot at a disturbance there.. but probably no. there is a decent northerly flow ahead of the advancing wave.. it's very sharp.. but that's already moving onshore honduras. the wave axis is almost to the coast.. at cape gracias a Dios (cape thanks to God, but i like to think of it as cape gracias adios, thankyougoodbyecomeagain). earl's best chance of doing anything interesting is really to spawn a pacific cyclone.. august has been mighty quiet over there.
with earl settled, the next (and almost only) item of attention is the low amplitude wave near 10/32 at this hour. it's scooting along a bit faster than the general convergence to the west near 45w, and will possibly interact with the convection already there (perhaps a weak e-w trough there triggered by the passage of the wave that spawned danielle). globals have backed off on this particular feature, but i'm seeing less run-to-run consistency just lately.. they aren't getting the wave speed and timing right. thus the progression shown on gfs is unlikely to happen as indicated.. the wave of interest should be around 50w by thursday afternoon and possibly have spawned a low by then. i'm reckoning an invest out of this sucker thu/fri (maybe earlier, but don't think dvorak ratings will appear prior to then). this is low confidence, but feasible.
next wave coming off tomorrow, enough space between it and the current interest. globals picking up on it too.. have to see just what comes off.
hanging troughs in the subtropics have the outside potential to give us a hybrid cold-to-warm core system.. the one northwest of danielle is amplified enough to have some potential. weak trough of the east coast has some associated convergence.. pressure high though. not advertising these as being close to likely, just enough there to merit a glance.
we shouldn't have a new system prior to saturday; pleasantly unexciting day as we near the core of the season. not much reason for it to last very long. mjo negative ought to get back around by early september.. with SOI bursting negative every couple of weeks we should get more shots of activity in the coming month.
HF 2206z17august


Cycloneye
(Storm Tracker)
Tue Aug 17 2004 10:26 PM
Re: quieter still

I find interesting that the wave in atlantic has not be mentioned in the tropical weather outlook.But by only looking at sat pics it looks good with convection but maybe without a surface low and tht is why maybe there is no mention or no invest yet.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Tue Aug 17 2004 11:16 PM
wave in the atlantic

A wave SSE of Danielle is mentioned in the Tropical Discussion. The convection is far to the south of the "center" of the wave. Looks nice on sat imagery though. Looks can be deceiving though.

I was wondering if that was the low that the models were directing towards Florida...however I believe that is a wave that hasn't come off of Africa yet.

Maybe someone can clarify that for everyone

Bobbi


1234
(Registered User)
Wed Aug 18 2004 12:27 AM
Re: quieter still

Quote:

I find interesting that the wave in atlantic has not be mentioned in the tropical weather outlook.But by only looking at sat pics it looks good with convection but maybe without a surface low and tht is why maybe there is no mention or no invest yet.




I think that will be our next named system . Stay safe down there Cyclone eye


http://www.hardcoreweather.com


h2ocean
(Weather Hobbyist)
Wed Aug 18 2004 01:43 AM
Re: wave in the atlantic

Well...I just took the hurricane panels down this evening...maybe that will jinx me! That wave looks decent, but it seem the models are backing off this evening. Of course we know how the models can be!

LI Phil
(User)
Wed Aug 18 2004 01:50 AM
Re: wave in the atlantic

>>> Of course we know how the models can be!

Yes, moody, anorexic, self-serving and generally equipped with a Paris Hilton attitude...

oh, wait, you meant the global and tropical models. Well, they've all got their own peccadillos too.

Looks like a brief respite from the tropical action. Good thing too. There's probably not a citizen of the great state of Florida who couldn't use some extra sleep ATTM. Sleep tight, you may need the extra rest this season .

Peace y'all,

LI Phil


met
(Registered User)
Wed Aug 18 2004 02:00 AM
Re: wave in the atlantic

that disturbance looking pretty organized tonight. and afica has alot ready to come off the coast.

Old Sailor
(Storm Tracker)
Wed Aug 18 2004 02:26 AM
Re: never know about being in Harms way.

Been reading the posts for the last 2 days and looks like most came thru it with a few bumps, Seems to be a lot of guilt in the Tampa Bay area, because it missed us, I myself have given Money to help the poor souls 80 miles south of us do to 30 mile shift to the right. This was one that this old sailor has seen a few times before in my life, I hope nobody ever needs to see Cat 4 or 5 again.

Dave


LadyStorm
(Weather Guru)
Wed Aug 18 2004 10:06 AM
First Cane.

We just got our power back, I can finally say, that I have lived thru my first cane here in Ormond Beach. I was scared, but when the eye passed this way, it wasn't the picture that I had seen in my mind. It was night outside, and I couldn't see what was going on. When I woke up the next morning, I could not believe what I was seeing thru my eyes. Uprooted oak trees, trees on houses and cars. Trees and utility poles snapped like twigs. I have never seen any of this with my own eyes until this past weekend. And it was only recorded as a category 1 here. I can't even imagine what a 2 or 4 would be like to experience first hand. I have more of a respect for hurricanes now then ever. What a truly scary experience.

GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Wed Aug 18 2004 11:57 AM
Re: First Cane.

I am noticing that energy left over from Earl. Some of it has crossed Central America, some of it hasn;t. I checked the WV loops and the angles from both the Gulf Loop and the Caribbean loops are difficult to distinguish because they appear to be shot at different times and there is not any clear follow through. The energies following in the path of Earl and Charley also look threatening to me. The reason is this: My agency has lost power, use of its facilities in three counties. We have had employees sustain substantial losses and undergone substantial inconveniences like loss of water, loss of homes, loss of electricity, and no transportation. Every Thunderstorm we get adds to the misery and we are still getting those. I am working (Thank God) but I am working with no staff back up and I am working with people who are traumatized by this storm. The jails are full, the hospitals are full, and the treatment centers and service centers are crippled. We were on the lucky end of the storm compared to Punta Gorda and Port Charlotte. Having said all this. I am extremely nervous about the least little cloud that pops up in the GOM and BOC, not to mention the waves coming out of Africa. The worst thing in the world is the local media saying, Earl is history. It gives a false sense of comfort. A storm by any other name could be Andrew, Charley, Donna, Opal, Fredrick, Josephine, Erin, David, Gabrielle, or no name from winter 1993. In every case, no one expected it to be that bad(almost no one) in every case people who were as prepared as they knew how to be, got hit and suffered anyway. Please, Please, meterologists on here who have any knowledge at all, please let us know as soon as you suspect anything. We who want to be prepared need to have at least one piece of peace of mind, and that is that we did every thing we knew to do to prepare.

MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Wed Aug 18 2004 02:07 PM
Re: First Cane.

American Red Cross donations
https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp
(800) HELP-NOW
Salvation Army

http://www.salvationarmyflorida.org/
Catholic Charities USA
(800) 919-9338

United Methodist Committee on Relief - (800) 554-8583
FEMA
http://www.fema.gov/rrr/help2.shtm


Allison
(Weather Guru)
Wed Aug 18 2004 03:55 PM
Re: First Cane.

I know this thread continues to drift off-topic, but I wanted to add two more to the list...

Emergency Animal Rescue Service
http://www.uan.org/ears/

Humane Society of the United States
http://www.hsus.org/


Each of these groups of volunteers has been deployed to Florida -- EARS in Polk County and HSUS in Charlotte County -- to set up temporary animal shelters for those who are unable to keep their pets while they are staying in shelters and hotels, rebuilding their homes, etc.

They also rescue stranded and injured animals in areas where residents have not yet been allowed to return.

Allison


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Aug 18 2004 07:26 PM
48W 10N

Looking at this Visible loop:
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/watl-vis-loop.html

Do you think there is circulation there?


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Aug 18 2004 07:30 PM
Re: WAVES

Is the wave that is about at 45w10n going to slam into Nicguraga(spelling) or head wnw near barbados? On the loops I can't really tell which way it's going.

LI Phil
(User)
Wed Aug 18 2004 07:55 PM
Re: WAVES

I looks like a piece of energy is splitting north over the Yucatan...might be something to watch

floater 1


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Aug 18 2004 08:26 PM
Re: WAVES

I think you mean Venezuela/Columbia Lonny. Wave axis is actually to the ENE of the convection.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Wed Aug 18 2004 09:44 PM
Re: WAVES

Oh yeh . My geography is not good. Any models picking up on that wave? Not that any models picked up on Charlie. I was reading in the NHC discussion that a shortwave trough was pushing down from NW africa. That should inhibit some waves till they get farther west.

Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Wed Aug 18 2004 09:57 PM
Re: WAVES

Not to get in the way at all, but how come the wave is actually increasing over land when it is technically a tropical wave? I thought tropical waves died over land.

GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Wed Aug 18 2004 10:04 PM
Re: WAVES

I would like an answer to that question too. However, I think, the answer is the reaction to the heat of the land such as in afternoon thunderstorms.

met
(Registered User)
Wed Aug 18 2004 10:11 PM
Re: WAVES


look at meteosat photos a strong disturbance has come off. and there are alot more ready to come. afraid its going to be a very dangerous CV season.............


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Wed Aug 18 2004 10:36 PM
Re: WAVES

The tropical waves themselves weaken over land; however, they provide enhanced energy and a focus for convection to develop along the axis, even while over land, as a result of increase convergence (of the winds) at the surface. Couple this with instability derived from daytime heating (think sort of like the seabreeze, albeit maybe not quite the same effect) and ample moisture from the nearby bodies of water, and you have an increased likelihood for/strength to the convection over land.

HanKFranK
(User)
Wed Aug 18 2004 10:44 PM
i'm hearin' ya.

usually it's august 20th or so that we go into an active spell, as per the recent years where the atlantic THC is in overdrive. this year has been different so far (five storms between july 31 and august 13).. but with the arrival of the traditional time for things to start going off, the current wave train, occasionally nosediving SOI, and near-future arrival of MJO should get things started right back in a matter of days.
details some different from yesterday.
danielle is shearing out, going into loiter mode. gfs was on to something after all.. a compromise between it and the other globals leaves us with a recurving, weak system... that may want to drift around. the upper low to the northwest is neatly cut off and progged to retrograde east under a blocking ridge up to the north.. with a weak frontal tail low coming into the area from the west, and danielle's entrained energy.. there's a shot at some hybrid development, though models aren't jumping the gun on anything.
wave near 40w skewed by a trade surge, with the convection front and the now low amplitude wave tailing it. still a bit of convergence ahead, so some chance at it perking back up as it gets further west.. globals no longer predicting much, but some older runs did follow the recent succession of events more or less.. so it's still worth attention. don't know if that call for an invest by saturday is going to pan. and if it does there's always the fact that new storms entering the caribbean at low latitude tend to be typecast as speeding open waves.
higher amplitude wave crossing the coast about now.. expect 8pm twd to make mention of it's signature. it looks decent, but indications of it's mid level intensity will be more telling than meteosat IR stills.
earl went splat.. score one for the globals. those early recon fixes with the small center and the steady acceleration should have clued me in earlier.. but of course i'd just watched charlie ride the same wave to a different future and all memories of bonnie.. and chantal and jerry in 2001.. were on the back burner.
anywho, a break in the action as the heart of the season draws nigh.
HF 2244z18august


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Aug 19 2004 12:14 AM
Re: i'm hearin' ya.

>>atlantic THC is in overdrive

Surf's like way up dude. Think I'll go make a bloody mary in its honor.
----------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to add that the NAO has flopped back negative after a temporary return to neutral. The ensembles predicted neutral then positive, but this valley seems to be a bump in the road. Last NAO tank brought us Alex, Bonnie, Charlie, Danielle and Oil (/St. Bernard Parish speak). It will be interesting to see whether or not we get development in the next day or two. After that, NAO forecasted to positive.

Here are the 4 month daily values

And here are the ensemble forecasts and verifications

Steve


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Thu Aug 19 2004 01:10 AM
Re: RELIEF!!!

Maybe this will help some folks out!

TROPICAL WEATHER DISCUSSION
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
805 PM EDT WED 18 AUG 2004

TROPICAL WAVE...REMNANTS OF T.S. EARL...IS OVER THE YUCATAN
PENINSULA ALONG 88W S OF 20N MOVING W 20-25 KT. ASSOCIATED
CONVECTION IS INLAND WITH SCATTERED MODERATE TO STRONG
CONVECTION FROM 16N-21N BETWEEN 88W-91W.
...DISCUSSION...
GULF OF MEXICO...
SURFACE RIDGE DOMINATES THE GULF OF MEXICO WITH RIDGE AXIS ALONG
30N FROM N FLORIDA TO E TEXAS. RESULTING SURFACE WINDS OVER THE
GULF OF MEXICO ARE FROM THE EAST AT 10 KNOTS. SCATTERED
MODERATE TO STRONG CONVECTION IS OVER THE YUCATAN PENINSULA DUE
MOSTLY TO THE REMNANTS OF T.S. EARL. SCATTERED MODERATE TO
ISOLATED STRONG CONVECTION IS OVER FLORIDA FROM 26N-30N BETWEEN
80W-82W DUE TO AIR MASS HEATING. IN THE UPPER LEVELS... AN
ANTICYCLONIC CIRCULATION IS CENTERED OVER THE BAHAMAS NEAR
22N77W. UPPER LEVEL WINDS OVER THE GULF OF MEXICO ARE FROM THE
SOUTHWEST AT 30-50 KNOTS.

CARIBBEAN SEA...
ON THE SURFACE...STRONG EASTERLIES DOMINATES THE CARIBBEAN SEA.
THE WESTERN CARIBBEAN AND CENTRAL AMERICA HAS PATCHES OF
SCATTERED MODERATE TO ISOLATED STRONG CONVECTION ESPECIALLY FROM
8N-18N BETWEEN 82W-85W...ALSO DUE TO THE REMNANTS OF T.S. EARL.
OVER THE SE CARIBBEAN MOISTURE FROM AN APPROACHING TROPICAL WAVE
IS OVER TRINIDAD AND THE WINDWARD ISLANDS FROM 7N-14N BETWEEN
55W-63W. IN THE UPPER LEVELS...A CYCLONIC CIRCULATION IS N OF
PUERTO RICO NEAR 22N63W. CYCLONIC FLOW IS OVER THE NE CARIBBEAN
N OF 15N BETWEEN 56W-70W. STRONG SUBSIDENCE COVERS THE
CARIBBEAN N OF 12N BETWEEN 63W-80W.


BillD
(User)
Thu Aug 19 2004 01:53 AM
Re: i'm hearin' ya.

Steve,

Great links, thanks! Looks like things should settle down in a day or two, we'll see.

Bill


k___g
(Weather Guru)
Thu Aug 19 2004 01:54 AM
Re: RELIEF!!!

Thank goodness Earl is just a wave...My family and I wave goodbye to him!!!...We just regained power here in our part of Orlando and we want NO more tropical ANYTHING in this area for many years to come!!!

We have read and followed the posts on this site for several years (as well as wished for storms to hit here)...NO MORE!!!..We will still read but we will no longer wish for a storm that has the potential to do this type of damage. .We've now lived through a major storm and want nothing else to do with one...What a mess we have...

We'll still be here on a daily basis...however, we'll be "wishcasting' the storms the other way!!!
k___g


1234
(Registered User)
Thu Aug 19 2004 04:43 AM
Re: RELIEF!!!

I'm glad that Earl is also dead or it would have been a busy weekened on the central gulf coast



http://www.hardcoreweather.com


Sissy
(Registered User)
Thu Aug 19 2004 05:23 AM
Re: RELIEF!!!

Hi Everyone,

Sissy here reporting in from Orlando...My mom has her power on today but mine is still out. My area was hit fairly hard, but I am grateful to have a roof over my head. My prayers go out to Southwest Florida.

Sissy


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Aug 19 2004 10:19 AM
Re: RELIEF!!!

Cutting and pasting NHC discusssions and outlooks is OK if only you can follow up with a layman's interpretation. That is what this site should be all about, don't you think?

yeah, it helps. if there was an active storm i'd be more nitpicky. -HF


rmbjoe1954
(Weather Master)
Thu Aug 19 2004 10:21 AM
Re: RELIEF!!!

The reply was from me, i forgot to log in.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Aug 19 2004 11:05 AM
Re: RELIEF!!!

Hi Sissy! Glad everything is OK and you got your power back. Still teaching in O-town?? Things are quiet right now in the Atlantic, but we still need to keep a watchful eye. Hope you guys don't see another threatening situation there. Here in Palm Bay we got gusty winds but no damage as the windfield stayed in northern Brevard. See the east coast as a problem later on.

LoisCane
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Thu Aug 19 2004 11:46 AM
question on mjo

After reading through the discussion on the NAO and its tilts I was wondering when the MJO arrives into the basin and can anyone tell how the NAO will be then? And, give any vague timing on it please.

Steve
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Thu Aug 19 2004 01:50 PM
Re: question on mjo

Hey Lois. Tough to say. models forecast it back to positive, but they don't go much farther than 15 days out (or at least not any links @ ncep do that I know of).

Steve


Cycloneye
(Storm Tracker)
Thu Aug 19 2004 02:07 PM
Re: question on mjo

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/global_precip/gif/am_ir_monthly_1.gif

Here is the latest on MJO.The wet phase or favorable is about to spill into the atlantic as the green lines show at link above.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Aug 19 2004 03:39 PM
Re: question on mjo

The wave at approx. 21W10N looks quite impressive on recent sat pics...maybe an Invest later today. Think I read that the models have been playing with it...right?

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Aug 19 2004 06:29 PM
cyclone... please clarify

When you say "just about" ... give a rough estimate please. I'm not very clear on how fast it moves and think at times the pace is different.

Thanks


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Aug 19 2004 06:54 PM
Re: cyclone... please clarify

Here's the post from the Morhead City am forecast:
TROPICALLY SPEAKING...AFTER
AUGUSTS ROBUST 2 WEEK OPENING ASSAULT OF ALEX/BONNIE/CHARLEY...NOT
FORGETTING DISTANT DANIELLE AND WHAT WAS EARL...ALL BASICALLY QUIET
ON THE GULF/CARIB/TROPICAL ATLANTIC FRONTS SAVE TO SAY NHC KEEPING
EYE ON TROPICAL WAVE LOCATED ABOUT 1000 MI E OF THE WINDWARDS MOVING
BRISKLY W IN THE ITCZ LOW-LEVEL EASTERLY 20-25 MPH FLOW OF IT ALL.


Cycloneye
(Storm Tracker)
Thu Aug 19 2004 07:27 PM
Re: cyclone... please clarify

http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/notes/chap12/mjo.html

In the link it is all explained in detail because I dont know how to explain all the technnical things about it.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Thu Aug 19 2004 08:13 PM
Re:CHANGES

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/eatl-wv-loop.html. When looking at the loop you can see in white shade the short wave trough that I guess is loaded with dry air heading southwest. If the wave around 10n25w can get by the trough it may have a chance. This to me, seems the reason why the tropics got quiet all of a sudden. As long as another trough doesn't come by in this area, I think we will be back in business.

HanKFranK
(User)
Thu Aug 19 2004 10:25 PM
out there a bit

not going spend too much time in subtropical dreamland... just try and ID the upcoming pattern. danielle has bowed to gfs, ignored the rest.. so it will linger south of the azores as a weak system. i'm impressed by gfs lately.. been doing a good job. pattern right now is somewhat amplified.. with a rex sort of block east of newfoundland (mid/upper ridge far north with a cutoff piece stuck in the ridge to the south). emerging pattern won't support that.. things are flattening out now. subtropical ridge axis near 25N.. far to the south. with NAO going negative the troughs which have been sticking should start to split, so the wavelengths ought to be shortening some and upper height anomalies should start backing westward. subtropical-type development possible with splits and such.. nothing in particular looks that way for now. gfs has a pattern.. still a week or so out.. with the atlantic ridge axis lifting poleward a tad, and weakening in the central atlantic.. height anomalies in the east and west atlantic. if this ends up verifying.. well, ridging near the east coast will be there to bring west what doesn't go out up the middle.. with retrograding ridge axes a storm that pairs with a height max will get far to the west. something to mind this time of year. it'll have to keep showing from run to run before being taken seriously.
as for culprits.. the lead wave is flat, low amplitude.. itcz only sort of stuff. i don't expect much from it. no cookie there. wave near the cv islands right now has more convection, but still fairly flat. gfs tracking some of it's energy on an initially more northwestward path.. through the big mass of subsidence drawn down on the back side of danielle.. which given gfs recent successes merits consideration. some future waves getting attention.. but that's not worth much until they come off.
activity popping up in the eastpac finally this month is probably heralding mjo's arrival.. been a non player so far this year, have to see what it can do.
enjoy the quiet while it lasts. that TD in the eastpac suggests it won't stick around. counter is on.. usually 5-10 days
HF 2225z19august


RedingtonBeachGuy
(Moderator)
Thu Aug 19 2004 11:16 PM
Re: out there a bit

"If you guys & gals need to emote, I pretty much think the whole board is in agreement that it is absolutely fine to do so."
_________________________________________________

Dang State is shipping generators to the counties to insure the elections go smoothly. Never mind the thousands upon thousands who don't have power and can't afford generators and are enduring the heat 24/7 -- at least government will run smoothly.

Now, if they had provided those same generators to the social departments and allowed a few homes/blocks to have some refrigeration (much less a fan or small a/c), it sure would make more sense. What a pity if the elections are thrown off a week or two.. oh boy.

Sorry.. had to rant after seeing what I have seen.

it's o.k., hurricane victims need some slack. maybe you can tell us when the U.N. election minders show up later on. -HF


LoisCane
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 20 2004 02:48 AM
Someone start a counter

Or maybe someone here can make a contest.. See when the next storm forms..named storm. Can easily see five days.

Enjoy the calm ...it won't last.

Bobbi


LI Phil
(User)
Fri Aug 20 2004 04:25 PM
NOAA Updated Hurricane Forecast

In case anyone's interested here is NOAAs updated hurricane forecast.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 20 2004 08:23 PM
Re: out there a bit

The STATE is providing hundreds of generators to victims, and to the elections. NO ONE is not getting a generator due to the elections.

That was not a rant--it was irresponsible rumor mongering.

Note to the anon...if you're going to make statements like this, please identify yourself


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 20 2004 08:53 PM
question and.. beautiful new wave over Africa

Hasn't come off yet but its beautiful on imagery

Best one i've seen in a while


Can we please have a new topic for a forum. Think its time unless we are waiting for Danielle to do something different.

Have a nice weekend..Bobbi


HanKFranK
(User)
Fri Aug 20 2004 09:58 PM
next week

it is unlikely a system will develop over the weekend. the developing pattern will favor subtropical developments.. maybe close in (frontal leftovers, shortwave splits near the east coast perhaps). steve pointed this out to me.. with the ridging forecast in about a week near the eastern seaboard anything nearby would be serious trouble. but for now, just a potential trouble region based on the pattern. some other outside subtropical possibilites.. the deep layer system that is shearing danielle.. which is entraining plenty of energy as it hovers near 30/45.
the eastern atlantic waves are suffering from variable easterlies at different altitudes.. low level surge pushed the first wave rapidly west behind earl, second wave is an out of phase itcz energy bubble and a denuded low level turning axis.. both are now just drifting westward. the energetic wave about to come off africa should overtake it's forerunner.. should put some more energy in phase and maybe start an organization trend. with the trudging, slightly backed appearance of the eastern atlantic itcz i'd say the area is somewhat primed.. with the onset of mjo negative things should improve.
anyhow, with the upcoming pattern, retrograding ridges and transient, fast moving systems in the subtropics that split when they slow should be the rule. this is the pattern that favors stair-stepping longtrackers, and hybrid development at times. i may be wrong, but think we'll get a taste of one or the other next week.
HF 2158z20august


rmbjoe1954
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 20 2004 11:14 PM
Re: next week

The Cape Verde season is upon us; it appears we will have a a wicked season!!

remain alert!!


GuppieGrouper
(Weather Master)
Sat Aug 21 2004 12:50 AM
Re: next week

This time last week I was worn out, sure that we had survived the worst at our house and worried about our friends to the east. I am magnetically drawn to the loops and slightest color in the infrared satellites. I noticed tonight which I am sure is part coincidence and part nature, that the areas that were free from thunderstorm clouds on the still satellite pix, were the hardest hit areas from last week's storm. Coincidence and expenditure of heat energy in the atmosphere?
I mowed my 3 and 4 foot lawn, tonight after dinner. I noticed that there were no sounds of cicadas and that this was one of the loudest noises I was aware of last week prior to the storm, particularly Thursday night. I saw a rain frog while coming in after dark tonight. There was a lot of heat lightning. There are some snails that are crawling and hooking to the garage door. The last storm effected us mostly from the Northeast. The position of the snails on the house tell me they know something is up maybe coming from the Southeast this time. My insects and animals do not run scrawls at the bottom of the TV set saying where the weather is going to be, but they do indicate storms will be, and to some extent how strong they will be. I don't think the snails are lost for a minute. They know something is up. They just have not indicated when or how soon, except that they are already getting prepared for it. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.


Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 21 2004 01:17 AM
Re: next week

Wow, you're really observe a lot of things, that I wouldn't even look at right before a hurricane. I wonder what type of forecasting model they use! Next time I have a hurricane heading toward LI, I be sure sure to observe things like that.

HanKFranK
(User)
Sat Aug 21 2004 05:49 AM
Re: next week

i don't know how credible the actions of snails are in weather forecasting.. unless they're leaving slime-trail messages like 'beware the tempest" or "the lightning is coming" or "heeeeere's johnny!!" on your windows. kinda doubtful, but not to discredit the signs nature gives when trouble is in the air. i'll feel like a dope if florida gets whacked again, in other words.
wave emerging off west africa now has all the sound and fury of howard dean on the campaign stump. SAL should provide a sedative effect. wave near 65w flared to life tonight as well. negative mjo's effects are becoming apparent now.. the mid august interlude should pass inside of a week.
HF 0549z21august


LadyStorm
(Weather Guru)
Sat Aug 21 2004 10:13 AM
Re: next week

I don't think the animals have a forcast model, but they have an inner sense that nature gave them and not us. I have read about animals behavior prior to a natural disaster.

MaryAnn


Quote:

Wow, you're really observe a lot of things, that I wouldn't even look at right before a hurricane. I wonder what type of forecasting model they use! Next time I have a hurricane heading toward LI, I be sure sure to observe things like that.




rmbjoe1954
(Weather Master)
Sat Aug 21 2004 10:16 AM
New Wave Off Africa

This has to be the most 'perfect wave' this season. Now the debates and excellent commentaries begin. Perhaps a new thread is in order for 65L and the soon to be named L wave off Africa.

Keith234
(Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 21 2004 02:52 PM
Re: next week

(off-topic post removed)


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