MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Aug 12 2005 05:17 PM
Irene Moving Northwest, TD 10 Forms

Saturday Update
As of the 5pm advisory packages, we now have our tenth tropical depression of the season out in the Central Atlantic. It is weak right now and undergoing some shear, so only slow development is expected as it generally moves towards the northwest over the next 3-5 days. Interests in the Northern Lesser Antilles should watch this one, though the current guidance and NHC path suggest it should stay north of there. If it becomes a named system, it would be Jose -- and the earliest 10th named storm in recorded history in the Atlantic.

Today also marks the 1 year anniversary of Hurricane Charley making landfall in Southwest Florida. Charley was the second costliest hurricane on record in the US, causing over $15 billion in damages.

Original Update
Tropical Storm Irene is due to have Recon enter the system today. It's current motion is to the northwest and will likely continue on this for the next day or two.



It will then likely move more northward, well before land. However, later on it looks like steering currents will relax, and allow Irene to meander, eventually being pushed out to sea by the steering flow.

The Recon should help gain more confidence in the currently somewhat shaky forecast beyond a few days. I do not expect Irene to landfall along the East Coast, but areas in the cone should be on the watch.

Beyond Irene another tropical wave AKA 96L is in the Central Atlantic, it's looking better today and may become a depression tomorrow.

Hurricane Charley arrived in Florida a year ago today, starting the 2004 hell year for storms.

Event Related Links
StormCarib hurricane reports from observers in the Islands
Caribbean Island Weather Reports
Color Sat of Gulf
RAMSDIS high speed visible Floater of Storms

Irene


Animated Model Plot of Irene
Satellite Image of Irene with Storm Track Overlays
Infrared color Satellite Image of Irene with Storm track Overlays

QuikSCAT image of Irene
Weather Underground model plots of Irene
Irene Spaghetti Plot from BoatUS
NRL Monterey Irene Imagery

TD 10:


Satellite imagery from NASA/GHCC
QuikSCAT image of TD 10
NRL Monterey TD 10 Imagery


Old Sailor
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 05:21 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

Frank, makes a good point, you need to back off and look at the big picture , where she been and where looks to be going instead of just eye balling the the storm.

Dave


craigm
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 05:50 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

Could 85GHZ radiance be picking up an eye?

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/watl-ss85-loop.html


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Aug 12 2005 05:53 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

From what I can tell that's not an eye, water vapor shows a bit of dry air intruding into Irene, ie, just a hole in the clouds, it will fill up fast. It could eventually form an eye, but it's not together enough for it yet.

More evidence against at the moment, but I could be surprised.


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 12 2005 05:56 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

Big question now is...is there an eye with Irene?

Evidence for: warming in the infrared satellite imagery near where the center might be located. Several microwave imager passes over the past 18hr suggesting a mid-level eye feature present within the storm.

Evidence against: visible imagery suggests it may just be a dry slot working its way into the circulation. Infrared satellite appearances can be -- and often are -- deceiving. The ragged nature of the slot suggests that if it is an eye, it is a very primitive one at best...and that it may not be one at all.

The jury is still out, but that's why we have recon going out there this afternoon. We'll know once they give us a vortex report as to whether or not the makings of an eye are within the storm. For now, though, it's a debate where I get the feeling not a lot of people are going to be definitively swayed one way or the other unless something drastic changes within the storm over the next few hours...just like with the motion! It's not NNW (and the NHC never said it was right now, just that it would be in 3-4 days), and it's not WNW either, in my view -- it's somewhere between, likely over the long haul a general NW motion. It's important to not get caught up in short-term wobbles and look more at the long-term motion.


scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:16 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

Yeah thats defidently not a eye. Most eyes come apperent in a hurricane with pressure near 980mb (at the highest) but generally 965-970mb.

Myles
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:19 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

Well if it was the start of an eye it collapsed now on the IR,

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/float2-ir4-loop.html

But on the water vapor the appearance of an eye is still visable. However, with a large blob of convection begining to develope a distance away from the 'eye' it is highly doubtful that it is, or ever was an 'eye'. You can see this same convection in the IR loop, probably around the real circulation center, even though the LLC is still impossible to see.

www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/float2-wv-loop.html


Rabbit
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:28 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea


Lenny in 1999 had already developed an eye with winds only 35-40mph, so it is not impossible to have a tropical storm with an eye. Dennis in 1999 (although at 70) is another example you dont necessarily need a hurricae to have an eye. However, Irene does not have an eye at the moment--it seems to actually be undergoing a bit of easterly shear right now.

96L is getting better organized, with convection and a well-defined circulation, although not a well-organized center. I expect to see this upgraded to a TD diring the weekend, and a TS by Monday.


Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:37 PM
Recon

Recon plane is in the NW quadrant; we should see some interesting data pretty soon.

scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:39 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

They wern't eyes, they were a center of circulation. Difference? Well difference is a eye is inbeted in a CDO, while other systems have T-Storms around them, its just the center that is shown on Radar or Vis Sat.

scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:43 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

I do see what your saying though,, I think dennis had a eye and was weakening at the time so on the vis you can see the center or eye like feature. Lenny had what looked like a eye there but wasnt the center.

Todd
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:48 PM
Re: Recon

URNT12 KNHC 121836
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 12/18:14:10Z
B. 28 deg 27 min N
067 deg 05 min W
C. 850 mb 1412 m
D. 60 kt
E. 314 deg 023 nm
F. 053 deg 057 kt
G. 315 deg 024 nm
H. EXTRAP 997 mb
I. 17 C/ 1526 m
J. 22 C/ 1524 m
K. 16 C/ NA
L. CLOSED
M. C80
N. 12345/ 8
O. 0.02 / 3 nm
P. AF307 0109A IRENE OB 06
MAX FL WIND 57 KT NW QUAD 18:06:50 Z
SLP EXTRAP FROM 850 MB
GOOD RADAR SIGNATURE


Rabbit
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:51 PM
Re: Recon

Quote:

L. CLOSED
M. C80





does that mean there is a closed 80 mile wide eye?


Todd
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:54 PM
Re: Recon

I believe thats what they're reporting ... big huh

Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:55 PM
Re: Recon

I do believe that is what it means...

Ed in Va
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:55 PM
Re: Recon

What does all of this tell us about the forecast path...anything?

Bloodstar
(Moderator)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:55 PM
Re: Recon

I'm presuming they're going to keep wandering around in there for a bit... but an 80 mile wide eye? Man, if that sucker ever contracts down... want to talk about a ramping up in windspeed....

heh
are they sure it's an eye and not just a big dry slot?

-Mark


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 06:56 PM
Re: Recon

80nm dang you'd think we would be able to see that huh?
looks like nhc was close, Irene just a bit west of their plot


Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:04 PM
Re: Recon

Rabbit: It's 80 nautical miles, so it's even bigger than 80 statute miles.

Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:09 PM
Re: Recon

where in the heck is it????

Regardless, looking at the GOES vis loop she appears to be getting just a little better organized on her sat presentation...


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:12 PM
Recon

Frank,
What are the chances of it getting past 70W before hitting 30 N?


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:18 PM
Re: Recon

tough question... all depends how much influence the ridge has on her... some are insisting she is moving more westerly than NWerly... I'm not sure... if she goes more west then it very possible, if she more northwestly then it will not happen.... perhaps one of pros can better address the question cause they're a heck of a lot smarter than me...

damejune2
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:21 PM
Re: Recon

I just watched JB's video and i gotta tell ya.......he was ticked! One reason was the absence of recon, which we all know now is underway. Secondly, he (JB) can't understand why the models, the NHC and lots of other mets are saying that Irene will take a NW path and then North away from land. He strongly believes the high will push Irene more westard and into NC, possibly as a cat 3. Now this is NOT my take on it, so please don't think i am wishing anything bad, just relaying to ya'll what he is saying. I dont think he wants it to hit NC, but he seemed pretty peeved that everyone is predicting the storm to curve away from land. Any thoughts on that??

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:23 PM
Re: Recon

URNT12 KNHC 121836
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 12/18:14:10Z
B. 28 deg 27 min N
067 deg 05 min W
C. 850 mb 1412 m
D. 60 kt
E. 314 deg 023 nm
F. 053 deg 057 kt
G. 315 deg 024 nm
H. EXTRAP 997 mb
I. 17 C/ 1526 m
J. 22 C/ 1524 m
K. 16 C/ NA
L. CLOSED
M. C80
N. 12345/ 8
O. 0.02 / 3 nm
P. AF307 0109A IRENE OB 06
MAX FL WIND 57 KT NW QUAD 18:06:50 Z
SLP EXTRAP FROM 850 MB
GOOD RADAR SIGNATURE

this was earlier, now on obs 10


ralphfl
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:25 PM
Re: Recon

Well IMO he is a idiot.But he has nothing to back up his claims.Number 1 this is not got much chance to get past cat 1 since the water it will be going into is cooled water from the last 2 storms and him saying it is going to go out to sea does not sell stories.

Saying otherwise does.I did not see where he said a cat 3 storm but that is stupid since the water temps and shear dont support that at all.


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:26 PM
Re: Recon

Joe B has great passion for his weather... however, sometimes he just misses the boat... sometimes not.. I'm not saying either in this case because I just don't know what its going to do.. but I think the NHC has much a much better talent pool and think tank than Joe B could ever have... and once he takes position on his forecast he doesn't like to back off... with Dennis he really screwed up IMO... 12-18 hours out he was still saying Dennis was going to hit the mouth of the river and perhaps New Orleans, and we all know that wasn't even close..

damejune2
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:28 PM
Re: Recon

He did mention that perhaps a cat 3 could form if it took a more westward path....but didnt say it would be that strength if it indeed did hit land. At any rate it should be a minimal cat 1 by tonight or tomorrow morning. There is some cooler water around that area, but still warmer than normal for that part of the east coast.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:28 PM
Re: Recon


on outbound leg

MF28.0n M066.6w MF 064kts \ fl winds


damejune2
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:32 PM
Re: Recon

He doesn't like backing down, but i don't think he is an idiot like someone mentioned. The NHC is much better and their information is what i use for my planning purposes. I just wanted to see what everyone else's thoughts were on it. He has been saying for almost a week now that NC would/could be in trouble; just like he did or does with New Orleans. Let's hope he is wrong, again, and it heads out to sea.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:35 PM
Re: Recon

man, when was the last time there was this kind of pattern going on in the se us?

http://hadar.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/RSOgeir3.html
water vapor

almost looks like there are three lows spread out....left to right


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:37 PM
Re: Recon

...Looks like the latest BAMM has it preparing to do what looks like a loop. It's the only model showing that so far.

OcalaKT
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:40 PM
Re: Recon

Quote:

...Looks like the latest BAMM has it preparing to do what looks like a loop. It's the only model showing that so far.




Can you give a link?


Ed in Va
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:41 PM
Re: Recon

Looks like it's eating away the the first ridge...any chance it will do that with the bigger one?

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:41 PM
Re: Recon

wow, looks like a p-3 is out there with the g-iv and af

URNT10 KWBC 121924
97779 19244 60285 69500 50800 35018 53713 /8031
RMK NOAA3 WX09A IRENE OB 04 KWBC

and the g-iv is out
61616 NOAA9 0209A IRENE OB 04


superfly
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:45 PM
Re: Recon

Correction on the vortex data...8nm closed eye, not 80nm.

ShanaTX
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:46 PM
Re: Recon

Quote:

wow, looks like a p-3 is out there with the g-iv and af

URNT10 KWBC 121924
97779 19244 60285 69500 50800 35018 53713 /8031
RMK NOAA3 WX09A IRENE OB 04 KWBC

and the g-iv is out
61616 NOAA9 0209A IRENE OB 04




I feel like an idiot... English please? p-3? (airplane type? What's so special about a p3?)

g-iv????

'shana (who's really really trying to keep up)

P3


Old Sailor
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:47 PM
Re: Recon

Seems that Recon has correct their 0 placement.....Eye Form Was Characterized As Being: C08 sounds better then 80...lol

Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:50 PM
Re: Recon

and maybe that's why it was so hard to find.. I feel better....

Reaper
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:53 PM
Re: Recon

Quote:

Quote:

...Looks like the latest BAMM has it preparing to do what looks like a loop. It's the only model showing that so far.




Can you give a link?





Try this: http://flhurricane.com/modelanimator.php?storm=9&Year=2005


Old Sailor
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 07:55 PM
Re: Recon

10 NM is small and 8 well just hard find, that is a very small storm right now.

Dave


Big Kahuna
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:00 PM
Re: Recon

This link will help you decode the message. They are making three flights today.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/reconlist.shtml


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:03 PM
Re: Recon

noaa p-3 picture from coast rica last month......HRD research plane....
picture p-3

study hurricanes.....depends on what HRD mission is planned....SFC-10,000ft or a SMRF....

G-IV is a gulfstream jet.....high alt flights....most of time around hurricanes....
here's a look at what they did with emily this year....gives you an idea..
emily 20050717N1 Aircraft 49RF
i think the gulfstream has only made one eyewall penetration in its history..

picture g-iv


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:04 PM
Re: Recon

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/jetgen.html

Ed in Va
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:12 PM
Re: Recon

Color me ridge impaired. On this link, is the orange band the ridge? Will that keep Irene moving out to sea? It looks like it's breaking down on the eastern edge. ??
http://hadar.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/RSOgeir3.html


crpeavley
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:14 PM
Re: Recon

Can you post the link where you obtain this recon info, please?

Todd
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:18 PM
Re: Recon

http://www.hurricanehunters.com/wxdata.htm

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:19 PM
Re: Recon

URNT12 KNHC 122012
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 12/19:29:10Z
B. 28 deg 31 min N
067 deg 12 min W
C. 850 mb 1409 m
D. 65 kt
E. 41 deg 039 nm
F. 141 deg 061 kt
G. 042 deg 042 nm
H. EXTRAP 997 mb
I. 13 C/ 1526 m
J. 21 C/ 1523 m
K. 16 C/ NA
L. CLOSED
M. C80
N. 12345/ 8
O. 0.02 / 2 nm
P. AF307 0109A IRENE OB 10
MAX FL WIND 62 KT E QUAD 18:50:40 Z
SLP EXTRAP FROM 850 MB
GOOD RADAR SIGNATURE


Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:22 PM
Re: Recon

Note that in that latest vortex message, maximum surface winds are estimated at 65 kt, which is hurricane force. The NHC might not upgrade based on that fact, but there's a chance.

Glad to see the 80 nm measurement was an error; that just didn't make sense.


rmbjoe1954
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:25 PM
Re: Recon

I believe this is why JB argued for a NC or East Coast hit- this ridge will either force Irene westward onto shore- or- it can very well ease its movement-or stop it dead in its tracks depending how strong the ridge will hold- or even force Irene to the NE- following the UKMET model.

Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:26 PM
Re: Recon

Something interesting in the 11 am NHC package: Jacksonville shows up on the probability table with a small (I think 2%) chance of the eye passing within 65 nm within 72 hours. However, in the experimental wind probability product, Jacksonville is not listed with regards to any winds - 34 kt or higher.

This doesn't mean much, because the 2% odds of a 65 nm "brush" might not translate into a 2% chance of getting 34 kt winds, or the two products might be based on different computer output. But I find it interesting and wonder which of those two possibilities, or if something else, accounts for that.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:28 PM
Re: Recon

Quote:


on outbound leg

MF28.0n M066.6w MF 064kts \ fl winds




Those are max flight level winds. Est max surface winds 60kt.

Recon data shows a small increase since the 11am advisory (about 55kt). Still not hurricane strength.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:33 PM
Re: Recon

Well, just to spite me for posting, I suppose, I'm just seeing latest recon msg shows 65kt...which nudges just up to hurricane strength.

Hurricane Fredrick 1979
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:40 PM
Re: Recon

Quote:

Well, just to spite me for posting, I suppose, I'm just seeing latest recon msg shows 65kt...which nudges just up to hurricane strength.




Here are the latest Recon info i have
URNT12 KNHC 122012
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 12/19:29:10Z
B. 28 DEG 31 MIN N
067 DEG 12 MIN W
C. 850 MB 1409 M
D. 65 KT
E. 41 DEG 039 NM
F. 141 DEG 061 KT
G. 042 DEG 042 NM
H. EXTRAP 997 MB
I. 13 C/ 1526 M
J. 21 C/ 1523 M
K. 16 C/ NA
L. CLOSED
M. C80
N. 12345/ 8
O. 0.02 / 2 NM
P. AF307 0109A IRENE OB 10
MAX FL WIND 62 KT E QUAD 18:50:40 Z
SLP EXTRAP FROM 850 MB
GOOD RADAR SIGNATURE


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:42 PM
Re: Recon

URNT12 KNHC 122039
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 12/20:23:10Z
B. 28 deg 32 min N
067 deg 15 min W
C. 850 mb 1405 m
D. 65 kt
E. 140 deg 029 nm
F. 231 deg 075 kt
G. 140 deg 034 nm
H. 997 mb
I. 16 C/ 1523 m
J. 20 C/ 1525 m
K. 16 C/ NA
L. CLOSED
M. E09/80/60
N. 12345/ 8
O. 0.02 / 2 nm
P. AF307 0109A IRENE OB 15
MAX FL WIND 75 KT SE QUAD 20:12:20 Z


Todd
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:46 PM
Re: Recon

Well ... NRL has just updated to #33 .. movement 310 at 9 for the last 6 hours ..

What's funny is the time of 1800z and obs based on satellite and still classified as TS. Don't know if it's official


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:47 PM
Re: Recon

So its moved West .3 degrees in the last 5 hours

NONAME
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:52 PM
96L

1012 MB LOW HAS DEVELOPED FROM THE TROPICAL WAVE PREVIOUSLY
ALONG 39W. THE BROAD CENTER OF THE LOW IS NEAR 11N41W AND IS
MOVING WNW 10-15. THIS IS A COMPLEX DISTURBANCE WITH A LOW/MID-
LEVEL CENTER SEEN ON VISIBLE SATELLITE NEAR 12N42W WITH ANOTHER
LOBE OF ENERGY ROTATING AROUND THE E SIDE NEAR 12N39W. SURFACE
OBSERVATIONS INDICATE A LARGE CLOSED CIRCULATION WITH BUOYS
REPORTING WINDS OF 20-25 KT. THE LOW HAS FAVORABLE CONDITIONS
FOR FURTHER DEVELOPMENT WITH WARM WATER NEAR 83F... LIGHT
SHEAR... AND IT SEEMS TO BE FAR ENOUGH SOUTH TO AVOID
SIGNIFICANT DRY AIR IN THE MID-LEVELS. THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE
OF BANDING THOUGH CONVECTION HAS FADED A BIT THIS AFTERNOON.
ISOLATED MODERATE FROM 10N-13N BETWEEN 40W-45W.

That is really intresting got any ideals one it mets.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:53 PM
Re: Recon

jim cantore will be in punta gorda sat.

one year after charley


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:54 PM
Re: Recon

recon reports an eye now

Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 12 2005 08:58 PM
Re: Recon

so what do poeple think Irene is out fot he picture, if your in "the cone" should you still watch her, is there any evidence that would show the turn out to sea changing to the turn into land?

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 09:06 PM
Re: 96L

clearly see low level rotation with 96l on sats....she is a little low in lat., but looks like will miss alot of dry air....will be near islands in two days....this one could be the first of many to come...

MapMaster
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 12 2005 09:15 PM
Re: Eye

BTW...it is 80x60 miles, aligned east west (major axis).



MM


yecatsjg
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 12 2005 09:38 PM
Re: Eye

Quote:

Charley made landfall on the southwest coast of Florida near Cayo Costa, just north of Captiva, around 1945 UTC 13 August with maximum sustained winds near 130 kt.




I'm pretty sure Charley made landfall on Friday the 13th --- meaning tomorrow is one year, right? (As today is the 12th.) I remember getting the day off work as I work in a school and we were a hurricane shelter.....

Stacey


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 10:35 PM
Re: Eye

That is correct.

MM


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 10:36 PM
Re: Eye

i am confused, most of missed something

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb_latest/danger_atl_latestBW.gif

that can't be 96l, or is it?


Storm Cooper
(User)
Fri Aug 12 2005 10:46 PM
Re: Eye

Yes, that is the new AL invest.

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 12 2005 10:49 PM
Re: Recon

Ryan, if you are in the cone, you should always watch the storm. Remember, even if the storm stays offshore, some of its impacts may be felt onshore or along shore.

As for the tropical cyclone development...that should be 96L, but it's too far north. Right wave, wrong area. 96L looks to be one for the central-northern Lesser Antilles, if anywhere along the chain, but is still probably 12-24hr from being classified.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 10:55 PM
Re: Recon

thought it was a little high in atl, but then looking at first runs, i see were it came from...models are split.

here's a look at irene before the sunn goes down

rgb irene noticed the storms on south side


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Fri Aug 12 2005 11:15 PM
Re: Recon

Well, Irene probably a hurricane by 11pm or most certainly by morning don't you think? Looking improved in the last couple hours. Wondering why we can still see some of the LL circ a little exposed on the east side, and clouds from the convection have been sweeping to the west all day, if shear is low?

Invest 96L also moving along quickly, much different than 24hrs ago. If this one goes west then next week could be interesting.


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 12 2005 11:54 PM
Irene & to-be-TD 10

Update coming shortly on the main page (blog) with regards to the future courses and intensities of Irene and soon-to-be TD 10. I was going to try summarizing things for brevity here, but instead, here's the full version...

Irene is undergoing a little bit of easterly wind shear right now, but not a lot. The low-level center is near the deepest convection on the eastern side of the system, suggesting that it is much more vertically coherent than before. The effects of the dry environment are still present, but lessening with time. Unfortunately, we do not have a recent microwave imager pass to give us additional data since the last recon fix about 2-3hr ago, but the overall visible and infrared satellite imagery suggests the storm is getting better organized and will likely become a hurricane in the next 6-12hr. This storm may try to peak in intensity similar to Jeanne -- it does have a similar appearance on satellite imagery, for what little that is worth -- but I still feel that cat 1/2 intensity is a more likely bet.

Path? That's the million dollar question of the evening. Satellite-derived products hint at a weakness still in the ridge near where Irene is right now, but the main shortwave trough creating this weakness is about to pass the storm on by. Steering currents get pretty weak from here, as the main band of westerly flow has moved back to the north over the course of the day. An upper-low to the southwest of the storm likely interacted with it for a period of time earlier today, resulting in a temporary movement back towards the west-northwest. Overall, however, a general 300-315deg motion is what we've seen for the past day or two. There are signs of the ridge trying to build in a bit to the north of the storm, but whatever is going on there right now is relatively weak at this time.

Given all of this, a slow deceleration of the storm as it moves northwest is likely over the next 2-3 days. It should slow to nearly stationary sometime this weekend, but I do not believe that it will occur near 70W, as the 5pm NHC package advertises. More likely, the storm will draw a bit closer to shore -- perhaps close to 72 or 73W -- before slowing down. The upper-low that has been in the Gulf is showing signs of lifting northward; as it does, in conjunction with a digging trough in the west with a shortwave moving through Idaho at this time, the flow should amplify to some degree in the east...likely with a narrow trough along the east coast and ridging further out to sea. No scenario is certain at this point in time by any means, but the threat south of Charleston is over and decreasing to the north of there. I believe the storm will remain offshore, perhaps brushing the coastline from 200-300 miles away, and ultimately move out to sea in the westerly flow. Given the strength of the westerly flow, I don't currently put much stock in the NOGAPS solution of it slowing and cutting off north of Bermuda in 5-6 days.

Nevertheless, everyone from Charleston northward should continue to watch this storm, as any prolonged movement to the west increases the threat to the coast. This may prove to be a close call -- with an amplifying flow pattern to potentially thank for that -- and the track is subject to change.

Invest 96L continues to become better organized, with well-defined mid-level banding features apparent on infrared satellite imagery over the past two hours. The mid- & low-level centers appear to be congealing near 13N/42.5W and I expect a tropical depression to form here within the next 12-18hr. Intensification should be modest through the forecast period as the storm moves in a general west-northwest fashion. I believe we will likely have T.S. Jose by the end of the weekend, with only some dry air and modest shear being the inhibiting factors through Monday. This is the feature the FSU MM5 and, to a lesser degree, some of the globals (GFS & UKMET) picked up on for development over the past 4-5 days.

Unless it almost immediately begins to turn northwest and north, this developing system should continue on a general westward path. A trough is just north of the system right now, likely amplified a bit by the ridge that has been building near Irene over the past few days, but is rather weak and does not appear as a strong entity in any of the satellite-derived wind products. If it does not get captured by this, the storm should continue on a west to west-northwestward path, bringing it to near the central Lesser Antilles near the start of the week. Where it goes from there depends upon how the ridge builds in once Irene heads on out to sea...the greater the weakness left, the more likely that this system gets pulled northward across some of the Greater Antilles. Model guidance is split on solutions in the short-term with this one, but given the trends of the storm so far and climatology, slow intensification and a general west-northwestward motion is the call for now.

We'll watch the wave just off of the coast of Africa for development over the weekend as well. It's a vertically deep system already, but is rather far to the north. Given this, unless it reforms further south, it would likely be a fish spinner...moreso the faster it develops. It needs some time to get its act together before becoming a threat to do any development, but is in a favorable environment to do so. Possibly invest 97L sometime over the weekend, maybe more later on. Not much model support -- there's more for the next wave in the series -- but worth watching nonetheless. Models are calling for ridging to take over most of the basin by 5-6 days out, suggesting that things are likely to get cranking by then...if not sooner.

East Pacific is still cranking, with Fernanda still going strong -- albeit not for much longer; the deep convection is already starting to fade away on the western side of the circulation and visible satellite imagery suggests that the low-level stratocu field of the cooler waters of the Pacific may be impacting the surface circulation. The satellite representation remains very good, but I've got a feeling the strongest winds aren't making it down to the surface anymore. Expect the intensity to start falling at a good clip over the next few days. As it weakens, the overall environment for Greg should become a bit more favorable; slow intensification is likely with this one. They'll both keep heading west, likely to kick up some surf for Hawaii down the line (but nothing more at this time). The feature just off of the Mexican coast also is a candidate for development as it moves parallel to coast; would not be surprised to see it perk up into an invest/depression this weekend as well.

Prime time is beginning, as advertised. Stay tuned, as this may just be the tip of the iceberg.


Old Sailor
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 12:06 AM
Re: Irene & to-be-TD 10

Clark:

Nice post you give high lights that count, as we use to say in the Navy, well done.

Dave


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 13 2005 12:32 AM
Re: Eye

I think that invest is to high... here is a cool sat loop, notice the wave in the caribbean moving to the west... also see Irene, doesn't look like she's moving that much, looks to be to the NNW perhaps... hard to tell on this loop...

http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~ovens/loops/wxloop.cgi?wv_east_enhanced+12


Beaumont, TX
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 12:36 AM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

Nicely done, Clark. As usual, written in a way us regular people can understand. Lots to follow out there.
Know it is a long way off and no way to tell but is there anyway 96L could make it into the Gulf eventually?

if there's "no way to tell" why would you ask?


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 13 2005 12:41 AM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

Yeah Clark does a great job on his analysis, a real assest to this post... I also think HF and Scott provide some pretty good analysis as well, and of course Jason, who has not been see much of late... but is always around for those GOM events... also cudos to everyone who has contributed to some excellent post the past two days and how well everyone has been treated lately... hats off to all the mods too for regaining control of the board...

Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 13 2005 01:24 AM
Irene stalled?

Looking at this sat loop presentation Irene doesn't appear to be moving much at all ... looks like the northern quadrant is getting smashed by the high pressure ridge to the NW and N... its flattened out somewhat on its northern side... could be just a temporary thing who the heck knows... notice the nice rotation on the wave in the central atlantic, could be on the way to our next TD tomorrow if this organization continues...

http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~ovens/loops/wxloop.cgi?ir_east+12


HanKFranK
(User)
Sat Aug 13 2005 01:35 AM
quick reminder

rather than PMing everybody individually (esp. when more than half the posts of this type are posted by unregs), i'm just going to comment in general that the one-line posts frequent above aren't appropriate for the main board. if you're going to say something, add at least a couple of thoughts... don't just say 'its going nw now' or 'looks like its getting stronger' or 'i agree with you'.
i hate deleting stuff people post, 'cause it represents wasted effort. the forum is meant for discussion, and flippant or terse comments keep the discussion very unsophisticated and bland. a short post is ok when it contains a link to what you're commenting on (you know, a picture tells a thousand words). use PM for messages to individuals. put a little effort and thought into what you post; it raises the bar for everyone, and keeps the discussion livelier.
a'ite, i've said my piece. the developing system east of the islands is probably the front-runner in a coming streak of activity. sticking to the forum rules is extra important when the post volume is high, as things can get chaotic (and then the admins don't get any sleep).
i'm gonna go eyeball some more stuff and post later. pretty sure irene won't make it in, but it did get into the western atlantic... already got some thoughts on what may be 'jose'.
HF 0135z13august


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Aug 13 2005 02:50 AM
Hank and Irene

TROPICAL STORM IRENE DISCUSSION NUMBER 34
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
11 PM EDT FRI AUG 12 2005 ( edited~danielw)

SINCE THE LAST RECON REPORT AND 00Z SATELLITE INTENSITY ESTIMATES
...IRENE'S CONVECTIVE PATTERN HAS DEGRADED SOMEWHAT. A 12/2245Z SSMI OVERPASS INDICATED A SHARP DRY SLOT HAD PUSHED INTO THE CIRCULATION
FROM THE NORTH...ALL THE WHILE CLOUD TOPS HAVE WARMED NEAR THE CENTER AND A CDO FEATURE IS NO LONGER EVIDENT IN INFRARED IMAGERY.
THEREFORE...THE INTENSITY IS BEING MAINTAINED AT 60 KT.
HOWEVER...
THE CENTRAL PRESSURE HAS BEEN DECREASED TO 991 MB BASED ON A 12/2300Z PRESSURE OF 995.9 MB REPORTED BY BUOY 41927 LOCATED ABOUT 30 NMI NORTHEAST OF THE CENTER...WHICH WAS LOWER THAN THE LAST RECON REPORTED CENTRAL PRESSURE OF 997 MB AT 12/2023Z.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCDAT4+shtml/130244.shtml

Hank, you got some inside info that we don't know about?

nope. i'm just as confused as the next guy. -HF


damejune2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 02:51 AM
Re: quick reminder

I saw some of the early model runs for invest 96l and one model takes the disturbance almost to the South American coast....my question is this: Has a TS or Hurricane ever made landfall on the S. American coast? Can they get that far south? I know some storms have come close to Trinidad and surrounding islands, but i have never seen one hit the coast. Just wondering....

LI Phil
(User)
Sat Aug 13 2005 02:53 AM
11:00 is out...Irene Still a TS

the 11:00 advisory is now out, and Irene is still a TS...actually with her wv loop she's looking quite ragged...as was noted earlier by Frank P.

If you click the link, make sure you fill in the "trop fcst pts" and "lat/lon" check boxes...

although forecast to become a CAT I 'cane, the good news is that now she's definitely progged to remain well offshore; still may warrant a bear watch over the next couple of days, but it's almost time to sound the "all clear" for the East Coast...

peak of the season is just beginning, and it's possible we'll have jose in the next few days...the "fun" has really only just begun...


Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Sat Aug 13 2005 03:32 AM
The Future Of Irene

Don't be too quick to call that 'all clear' just yet. The narrow ridge to the north of the storm is building and creating some rather significant compression shear from the east over Irene - thus the ragged appearance. The ridge has also extended southwestward toward the southeast U.S. and was evident this afternoon when thunderstorms over the Florida peninsula were shoved to the southwest. In a very real sense, Irene is 'trapped' for the moment. Her northwesterly movement has become more west northwest and a slow westward track is even possible over the weekend. The easterly shear is going to keep intensification in check for awhile and the storm may actually weaken. Another ridge will move offshore on Saturday and intensify the block,so Irene may be stuck in place for a couple of days. Right now I'm not sure exactly where Irene will end up. The 11pm Advisory was simply a continuity forecast so I'm guessing that NHC is having a bit of trouble with this one too.
Cheers,
ED


Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Sat Aug 13 2005 03:38 AM
Re: The Future Of Irene

I notice that the BAMM and BAMD models have the storm starting to recurve in the extended period. Given what Ed is mentioning about the system stalling, I'm wondering if the idea of recurving might not be as far fetched as it seems based on the track given by GFS, GFDL, UKMET, and NOGAPS.

It will be interesting to watch the system over the next couple of days. So far I think Irene hasn't conformed to the model concensus and seems to like picking an outlier. It might do it again, or even ignore the outlier and do it's own thing. That wouldn't surprise me one bit.

--RC


Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 04:10 AM
Re: The Future Of Irene

Not a lot to add, just wanted to thank everyone for their input and keeping the site running smoothly.

Glad to see Irene taking a projected path out to sea. Always a nice thing to see.
The new depression bears watching but again, it's nice to have a bit of a breather the past couple of weeks. The end of August into September might be pretty active.


Steve H1
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 04:34 AM
Re: The Future Of Irene

The point of Ed's post was NOT to sound the all clear yet. Irene is spinning down a bit currently as easterlies do their dirty work. The ridging MAY block her off from going north or east. As she weakens a bit, she could move a bit westerly due to the shallower flow. I too noticed the sea breeze line din't behave as usual today and shoved the T'storms off to the SW. She's not really far enuf north to get affected by the westerlies either. Sh'e pretty much a sit and spin right now, but as the building ridge north of her moves to the NNE of her she will start to move WNW, then may stall again as the steering currents weaken , then move again when one ridge does a handover to another. She could be trapped for days, and that's why I'm heading to bed. Nite all. Cheers!!

HanKFranK
(User)
Sat Aug 13 2005 06:01 AM
Re: The Future Of Irene

yep.. irene has just about quit moving. having its outflow shield squashed and the surface sheared may decouple the mlc and start the system drifting west as a... well, weakling. i don't expect it to come over to north carolina regardless, but hey, the details of this one have consistently thrown me.
get to start fresh with the 96L disturbance. all of that early modeling bringing it nw is probably right, because there's one hell of a deep trough dug in behind irene and the ridge blocking irene. there will be some southwesterly shear with it, too.. once the system gets a little further to the north. i'd expect 96L to slowly deepen, and slowly move nw for the next few days... the ridge will fill back and send it hurtling west by the middle of next week. not unlikely to be jose, but not likely to do much for a few days.
waves coming off africa are more robust but packed close together.... out of phase perhaps. this should keep them jumbled up and slow to develop if one has such intentions.
favorable mjo is coming on, but it's not progressing cleanly or quickly. soi keeps dipping negative and while that persists the backing and confused upper pattern in the atlantic should be slow to give way. it may not go strongly positive.. if it does look for the strong zonal ridge to become established in the atlantic again.
i've got a theory that action is much more intense and dangerous on the tail end of an mjo wave... the soi response favors a strong subtropical ridge in the atlantic at that point.. and the favorable span has been active long enough to typically have perked up several waves. this one is just coming on, so by that measure things aren't really going just yet.. but say around august 20th through the end of the month.. well, we'll see.
random thing to watch... low is diving sw with the digging trough in the central atlantic. whatever happens to peel away from the trough and get under the ridge.. if anything, might be of interest. some models still showing falling pressures in the west carib/gulf by late week. not a definite but if anything happens to get over there...
HF 0601z13august


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Aug 13 2005 06:19 AM
Re: The Future Of Irene

URNT12 KNHC 130552 CCA
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 13/05:26:50Z
B. 29 deg 30 min N
068 deg 06 min W
C. 850 mb 1409 m
D. NA kt
E. NA deg nm
F. 010 deg 042 kt
G. 284 deg 033 nm
H. 996 mb
I. 16 C/ 1522 m
J. 20 C/ 1523 m
K. 18 C/ NA
L. NA
M. NA
N. 12345/ 8
O. 0.02 / 3 nm
P. AF300 0309A IRENE OB 08 CCA
MAX FL WIND 42 KT NW QUAD 05:16:50

on outbound leg after this.....a fl winds of 69kts was found
MF29.3 M067.9 MF069kts


LI Phil
(User)
Sat Aug 13 2005 11:21 AM
Early Saturday thoughts on Irene

as of 5:00 am, tropical storm irene was centered at 30.1 north and 68.6 west, or about 535 miles southeast of cape hatteras...moving to the northwest at 10 mph...maximum sustained winds are near 70 mph with higher gusts...minimum central pressure reported by recon was 997 millibars (29.44 inches of mercury).

as ed mentioned late last night, it is still too early to throw out the "all clear" sign for the EC, but...this is looking to be the most likely scenario by far...irene did NOT strengthen overnight, making her a tropical storm still (albeit a 70 mph ts) this morning...she's over warm water and facing relaxed shear, but does have some drier air to contend with as she continues to the nw...

she's currently tracking around the fringe of the bermuda high, which should push her nw, then n, then ne and out to sea...BUT...if the ridge continues to strengthen, this could push irene further west and possibly send her quite close to the coast...AND...the upper level ridge off the east coast could also build, causing her to slow down, perhaps making that loop-de-loop or a stall that was being picked up by some of the models...if she stalls or gets "trapped", then the east coast is not out of the woods by any means...i'm not buying into these possibilities, but they do exist nonetheless

i'm still close to sending out that "all clear" but not yet...if nothing else, this should wake up the east coast to the fact that we haven't even hit the peak of the season yet (and we're already up to "I") and the CV season will begin in earnest shortly...

today marks the one year anniversary of Charley, which was damage-wise, the second worst hurricane in US history...cantore and others will be in punta gorda where the town will unveil a plaque memorializing the victims and the devastation

elsewhere in the basin, the tropics are showing increased life and i wouldn't be surprised to see what is now 96L becoming jose within the next day or two...

all interests on the east coast need to keep an eye on irene for at least a little longer...

BUCKLE UP!


craigm
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 12:53 PM
Re: Early Saturday thoughts on Irene

Hope this post belongs here. Anyway, In my effort to educate myself about interpreting satellite images I keep stumbling across intersting sites, most of which you need a PHD to figure out . This one however does a great job of explaining remote sensing in text book form. So while we wait to see where Irene ends up and what develops out of 96L, for anyone interested, enjoy the reading.

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/afwa/metsat-U1.htm

P.S. LI Phil - love your signature


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Aug 13 2005 01:49 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

96L is know tropical deppression 10 according to the navy website it has winds of 30 knots that make it a 35 Mph tropical deppression

AndyG
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Aug 13 2005 02:18 PM
Re: Irene Moving Northwest and Will Likely Head Out to Sea

They are still showing it as 96L INVEST, not 10L NONAME.
Navy Site


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Aug 13 2005 02:23 PM
Re: The Future Of Irene

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/watl-wv-loop.html

When you look at the above link the out flow from the north east of iIrene is being forced south. Will this force storm in more of a westward motion. Or is this the trapping they have been talking about. Someone please enlighten me. Please


Old Sailor
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 03:01 PM
Re: The Future Of Irene

Irene is being push by the ridge on the North East as she curves around the High, that is normal at this time.

Dave


NONAME
(Weather Guru)
Sat Aug 13 2005 04:23 PM
Re: The Future Of Irene

96L is probley the next depression probley already is one and they nhc will issue advisory on it tonight.

ralphfl
(Weather Master)
Sat Aug 13 2005 04:33 PM
Re: The Future Of Irene

Well the models i see so far on the new wave soon to be depression have it going north early also.

I know many of the people on here would be mad but i hope all the storms like back in the 80's all curve well before they get this far.

Lets not make comments like ".... people on here would be mad...". That is not the case.


Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Sat Aug 13 2005 04:35 PM
Invest 96L Comments

Yes, it probably is a Tropical Depression. It is fighting a little dry air intrusion, however outflow has improved significantly in the west quadrant. Banding is evident and at 13/15Z a circulation center was located at 13.7N 44.7W. Movement was to the west northwest - slowly. Winds close to 30 knots and pressure about 1008mb. I'd expect the system to move to the west northwest (and eventually northwest as it intensifies) over the next few days. The Islands are probably okay (with emphasis on the 'probably').
Cheers,
ED


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Aug 13 2005 05:37 PM
Re: The Future Of Irene

Quote:

Well the models i see so far on the new wave soon to be depression have it going north early also.

I know many of the people on here would be mad but i hope all the storms like back in the 80's all curve well before they get this far.




There is no need for you to pick fights. Here it goes again...you're portraying the majority of posters on this board as wishcasters and destruction freaks. Please, don't do that.

And as for my opinion on 96L, all you need to do is look at the water vapor imagery. MASSIVE trough in Central Atlantic. 96L is probably out of here, espeically if it intensifies quickly.


scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Sat Aug 13 2005 05:48 PM
Re: The Future Of Irene

Irene has been behaving as forecasted, although I thought she would of reached hurricane status last night, it didnt happen. The NHC is being conservative until recon gets in there and I agree. Again expect her to move along the NHC path and out to sea.
96L is not classified but should be. Clearly a LLC and a MLC embeded together. I think this is actually a TS and Dvorak # are close. Pressures are around 1006mb in a tight area near the center. I bet at 5pm it will be a TD winds near 35mph and pressure around 1007-1009. Movement will be wnw to NW by early next week. Possibly a threat to Bermuda again. This one doesnt have a chance at hitting the U.S. Long range models and Alaska Sat, and obs show a dipping of the trough late this week into the weekend over the great lakes and eastern seaboard. This will drive the next system away from 65W.
Finally as I adv a couple days ago, expect the Sw carribean to be the next system of real intrest as I expect a TD to form down there by midweek. Movement should be NW into the Nw Carribean and near the Yucitan. This was supported by the Nogaps and also last night now by the MM5. Also new 12z runs from GFS now show a low in 6days over the Yucitan and the UkMet showing a low or low pressures in the area. Not sure yet on or if this will be a U.S landfall or where it will go. Matters on the trough going thru the great lakes and how far down into the Ohio valley it reaches to surpress the ridge over the S.E US. More later of course.

scottsvb


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Aug 13 2005 06:04 PM
Re: The Future Of Irene

latest recon i seen has pressure up to 1000mb and winds down

There are two af planes out there

URNT12 KNHC 131755
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 13/17:51:40Z
B. 30 deg 44 min N
069 deg 20 min W
C. 850 mb 1419 m
D. 35 kt
E. 322 deg 044 nm
F. 063 deg 041 kt
G. 322 deg 043 nm
H. 1000 mb
I. 16 C/ 1522 m
J. 19 C/ 1519 m
K. 18 C/ NA
L. NA
M. NA
N. 12345/ 8
O. 0.02 / 3 nm
P. AF308 0409A IRENE OB 06
MAX FL WIND 41 KT NW QUAD 17:13:20 Z


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Aug 13 2005 06:12 PM
Re: The Future Of Irene

the wave in center of carribean i think is what some models are hinting at something in a few days in sw carribean. wave should continue to move west and be south of jamica in a day or two

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Aug 13 2005 06:25 PM
Good night, Irene, good night Irene...

Gee about two seconds after I observed last night Irene is starting to look like she's pulling tog, poof! it all goes...a diet of dry air is reducing her to skin and bones. And it looks like on sat images that the shear has been more of a factor in the last couple days than has been discussed. I keep reading about low shear and it looks like Irene is getting almost as much shear as some of the other storms we've seen in the last month, like Franklin. Can someone provide some feedback on this.

ftlaudbob
(Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 13 2005 07:32 PM
Could we have a trend here?

3 storms in a row out to sea,and looks like if 96L develops she to will head out to sea.Could this be the story for this years storms?Does any long range forcast suggest this may continue.I know there is a long way to go,but the trend seems to be there.We can only hope.

Myles
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Aug 13 2005 07:55 PM
Re: Good night, Irene, good night Irene...

It apears to me that there are two circulation centers in Irene now. The visable sat shows what certainly looks like a circulation going north and one continuing northwest. Maybe the low level and mid level circulations seperating? I cant see this on any IR sat or WV, but to me the visable shows it quite clear right now. Could this maybe just be a cloud feature?


CaneTrackerInSoFl
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 08:33 PM
Re: Could we have a trend here?

Not that you are wrong but for right now the thinking is that it will head northwest generally and then at about 4 days time, the ridge is forecast to build again and force it more west northwesterly. Just take a look here:


wunderground.com/tropical


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Sat Aug 13 2005 09:50 PM
Re: Could we have a trend here?

A more westerly curve towards the end of the forecast period is definitely an option on the table. And there is some model support for tihs as well.

But, given the pattern that has rejected every storm even near the EC this year, I'll wait a while before I put my eggs in the westward turn basket.

EDIT: Another interesting thing I just noticed...the NAO is forecasted to go positive for the second half of this month.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao_index_mrf.html

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/new.nao_index_ensm.html

A positive NAO would potentially favor a stronger ridge of high pressure over the western Atlantic...possibly allowing CV storms (and storms anywhere, for that matter) a greater chance at U.S. landfall.


emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 13 2005 10:06 PM
Re: Could we have a trend here?

Why is the NHC going against most the models on their five day track?

http://weather.net-waves.com/model.php

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at5+shtml/210109.shtml?5day

Not too crazy about the NHC's track..LOL!


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Aug 13 2005 10:27 PM
Re: Could we have a trend here?

The NHC 5-day track is largely with the model guidance...the model guidance, that is, that actually captures the storm. The BAM-series models and the LBAR (and other models) are simplistic, older models and not given much weight in making a forecast.

It's also worth noting that the NHC 5-day track errors generally are lower than all of the model guidance except for the consensus (multi-model average) models and the FSU Superensemble. I'd put more trust in the NHC over the long haul than I would almost any model.


meto
(Weather Guru)
Sat Aug 13 2005 10:27 PM
Re: Could we have a trend here?

because a strong ridge will develop and turn jose west. look at discussion at 5 on td 10. strong systems coming off africa. and some behind still over africa.

Correct Quote~danielw
...MOST OF THE GLOBAL MODELS FORECAST THE
DEVELOPMENT OF A RIDGE TO THE NORTHEAST OF THE DEPRESSION. THIS
PATTERN WOULD STEER THE CYCLONE TOWARD THE NORTHWEST FOR THE NEXT 2
TO 3 DAYS WITH A POSSIBILITY OF A TURN TO THE WEST-NORTHWEST
THERAFTER...AS A WEAK RIDGE DEVELOPS TO THE NORTH OF THE CYCLONE...
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCDAT5+shtml/132019.shtml?


NONAME
(Weather Guru)
Sun Aug 14 2005 12:23 AM
Re: Could we have a trend here?

I know this might not be on topic but could a moderator start a new talkback so for Td 10 not to be intrusive or anything though.

SkeetoBiteAdministrator
(Master of Maps)
Sun Aug 14 2005 12:32 AM
Re: Could we have a trend here?

Current models and NHC track for Irene. These will update automatically (may be a slight delay).



danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sun Aug 14 2005 12:33 AM
TD 10 and Irene

Quote:

I know this might not be on topic but could a moderator start a new talkback so for Td 10 not to be intrusive or anything though.




This thread is for both storms.


NONAME
(Weather Guru)
Sun Aug 14 2005 12:40 AM
Re: TD 10 and Irene *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard*

This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard

Storm Cooper
(User)
Sun Aug 14 2005 12:41 AM
Re: TD 10 and Irene

There is a new Thread now....


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