Ed DunhamAdministrator
(Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017))
Sun Oct 02 2005 11:59 AM
TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

2AM Tuesday Update
Stan is rapidly intensifying this evening, not entirely unexpected given the favorable conditions aloft and in the Bay of Campeche, the organization of the storm, and the high probability of rapid intensification predicted by the SHIPS model. Stan is now forecast to make landfall in about 36hr as a 105mph category 2 hurricane. More in the morning.

9AM Monday 3.October.2005
The wave near the Bahamas (92L) is being watched for future development. More to come tonight on this.

From Ed Dunham:

A tropical wave is interacting with a trough of low pressure to the east of the Bahamas and the system is slowly becoming better organized as it drifts westward.

Wind shear to the north of the system is forecast to slowly relax by Tuesday evening and allow for some additional development of this large area of showers and thunderstorms. Although still not a sure thing, it is possible that
this area will develop into a tropical cyclone by Wednesday morning.

Movement should be to the west and eventually northwest toward Florida. Even if the system does not fully develop, almost all of the Florida peninsula can expect a prolonged period of showers - some of them heavy - and gusty winds for the rest of the week. Shower activity should increase Tuesday evening through Friday and total rainfall could be significant before this period of unsettled weather finally ends.

At 29C, sea surface temperatures are still warm enough to support tropical cyclone development - the next name on the list for this busy season is Tammy. The last year to reach this high into the alphabet was 1995, with Hurricane Tanya. The 1995 storm, Tanya formed in late October.

Original Update
Early this Sunday morning TD 20 was upgraded to Tropical Storm Stan - the eighteenth named storm of this highly active Atlantic season. Stan was upgraded just before he made landfall south of Tulum on the Yucatan peninsula of Mexico and he is now moving westward across the Yucatan - and he has probably weakened to a Tropical Depression at this time.

Stan is expexted to continue westward across the Yucatan and emerge into the Bay of Campeche by Monday Morning. Movement should continue to the west and eventually west southwest with landfall along the east central Mexican coast. Current projections intensify the storm to hurricane strength prior to landfall, however, modest wind shear exists across the Yucatan and the southern Gulf of Mexico so attaining hurricane strength is still questionable.

Stan


Tropical Depression 19 in the far eastern Atlantic west of the Cape Verde Islands continues to move slowly northward into increasing westerly shear. There is a small chance that this system could attain tropical storm strength before it weakens and dissipates in a few days - but its a very small chance since the wind shear to the north of the system is quite strong.


An area of gathering convection has flared up along a trough axis near 24.5N 70W as a tropical wave interacts with a stationary upper level low northeast of the southern Bahamas. The convection is currently parked in an area of light shear, so some slow development is possible over the next few days.

A tropical low near 12N 42W at 02/12Z is moving to the west northwest with convection displaced to the south. Because of a somewhat hostile upper air environment, development of this area, if any, will be slow.

If you use the MJO for guidance, the entire basin is about to settle into a quieter period for the next two or three weeks. I'd expect another final effort at activity from about 20 October through 10 November - perhaps another one or two storms before this hectic season comes to a much welcomed close.
ED


TS Stan

Animated model plot of TS Stan

92L


Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Oct 02 2005 12:10 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I make this comment tongue in cheek, kidding as it were.

What do you all think of the possibility of Stan curving more to the North and hitting the Florida Panhandle?

On a more serious note, yes it's been a very active and deadly hurricane season. One thing I'm thankful for is that out of all the record number of named storms, only a few have caused any real concern for the CONUS.

Still keeping an eye on the tropics but looking ahead to the end of the storm season.


Cindi
(Verified CFHC User)
Sun Oct 02 2005 12:23 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Quote:

What do you all think of the possibility of Stan curving more to the North and hitting the Florida Panhandle?




You may be kidding...but that is exactly what Opal did in 1995 ... and during these same days I can't wait for this season to end, too


HanKFranK
(User)
Sun Oct 02 2005 02:53 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

still a mix of modeling showing stan either moving onshore in mexico or getting stuck down near the BoC. worth mentioning that modeling that shows stan 'coming up' around next weekend have an unrealistic evolution for the storm and are just as suggestive that something else will be coming up east of it. stan is going to meet complicated steering... the ridging to the north isn't overpowering, there's the drag of land (in central mexico mountainout land), and even a potential interaction with a potential new tropical system south of the gulf of tehuantepec on the pacific side. late in the period the large high building in should force the system southward or eastward... early the effect will be to stall it or push it slowly west or southwest.
anyhow, there's more energy coming in from the sw caribbean (sheared from the nw, but converging well against the anomalous westerly flow across central america, perhaps a negative pulse of soi at work). this is a potential 'other system culprit'. there's the mess off the east coast which isn't looking worse for wear either... several vorticity maximums in it strung from west of bermuda down to the southeast bahamas now. some of that may punch across florida into the eastern gulf and try to develop over there, as indicated in some modeling. there's also a good convective flare near puerto rico, and a festering trough with good conditions aloft east of the islands... and of course waning td 19 and the lackluster but present hybrid low to the north of that. even a good looking wave near the cv islands right now.
throw all that together and there's too much going on to be sure what's exactly going to happen.. but my best bet is that the storm system being drawn up the east coast late next week is legit--there's a ton of energy feeding into the pattern and it's going to want to come up when the trough arrives. exactly how it will evolve out of all this mess, or even if it is somehow stan trying to come up i'm not sure. we could have another system or two out there.. or there's even the possibility that it's non-tropical (though i'm more of the school it will be a baroclinically-enhanced tropical system). anyhow, east coast... from florida up to new england... there is model support for bad weather of indeterminate nature late in the week. not sure whether it'll be a well-formed tropical system, a sloppy rainy one, a hybrid one, or even somehow more than one.. maybe it'll even be no system but just a bunch of confused weather getting drawn up into a front. this is a high-energy pattern, though, so i'm expecting something or somethings.
HF 1453z02october


dkpcb
(Registered User)
Sun Oct 02 2005 03:56 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I remember Opal in 1995, I believe it was October 4 or 5.
We did not have time to evacuate.
Had to turn back because of the traffic and ride it out with family
in town, thankfully it did not hit us directly, but still had a lot of damage.
I will keep on eye on Stan, in case it turns like Opal did.

RK


Beaumont, TX
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Oct 02 2005 04:07 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I agree this has been a hectic season. Wonder if they will end up using all of the names on the list.
Anyway, this has been some season and the storms have been interesting to follow. We are still without
power so have not returned home yet but Entergy is making good progress so we are hoping to be home soon.


Beaumont, TX
(Storm Tracker)
Sun Oct 02 2005 04:13 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Just wanted to thank you for mentioning in your comments that Texas might be in for a storm (way before Rita headed our way). Once Rita formed I had a pretty good ideal she was headed for Texas although I did think
it would be closer to the Galveston area (we still would had had winds and rain but probably not the extensive damage we did). I appreciate this site so much and have learned a great deal from it this season. I have always followed the storms and this has been one of the most interesting seasons I can remember. And I have been a coastal resident most of my life. Once again, thanks to all of you who have given so much information.


typhoon_tip
(Meteorologist)
Sun Oct 02 2005 04:16 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Hi HankFrank!
Check this out:
"A BROAD AREA OF SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS...ASSOCIATED WITH A
WESTWARD-MOVING TROPICAL WAVE AND AN UPPER-LEVEL LOW...IS CENTERED
A FEW HUNDRED MILES EAST OF THE CENTRAL BAHAMAS. ALTHOUGH
UPPER-LEVEL WINDS ARE CURRENTLY UNFAVORABLE FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE
DEVELOPMENT...THEY COULD BECOME MORE CONDUCIVE OVER THE NEXT FEW
DAYS AS THIS SYSTEM MOVES WESTWARD."

We've been watching the U/A gyre bore its way down to the surface for a few days... Interesting to say the least, considering that a large sprawling area of surface pressure is slated unanimously by the models to envelop the nations heart land by 120 hours... With the ridge in the middle latitudes of the Atlantic Ocean Basin holding firm, this implies/teleconnects to a weakness to the sea-lvl pressure field along just off the SE Coast; concurrent with an actual frontal boundary stalling in that vicinity, the models are representing this spatial orientation of features quite well.

As a result, most guidance (especially the GGEM) are attempting to develop some kind of system there. It is complicated because there are tropical/hybrid type contaminations to any cyclogenisis behavior, depending on the respective models. Example, the ECM closes off a decent U/A low near the SE Ohio Valley by said time, while there is both an active baroclinic field along and just off the East Coast. There is also a nebulously defined tropical low in the Gulf, which “could” under ECM circumstances develop and be pulled NE out ahead of the baroclinic zone as a separate entity – that is “could”. Could be an attempt to have something base on teleconnections alone which is as you know more merely implies numerical instability; thing is, with enhanced potential, a systems often find a trigger anyway. Similarly, the GGEM seems to initiate a tropical/hybrid type circulation in the NE Gulf, but differs in that it depicts a S/W picking it up and absorbing in a system deepening more like a mid-lat cyclone near the Del Marva. …The GFS is flatter overall and doesn’t tend to much development of either…UKMET, NOGAPs all the solutions I’ve seen range similarly to this overall pattern evolution.

Obviously at these time ranges there is a question of predictive skill…But, the pattern certainly does in the least leave room for excitement later in the week and beyond.

As to Stan… I have no problem with HPC forecast for Stan, however, I am a bit concerned that the global models are tussling with the GFDL on where Stan will be after 72 hours. As you know, HPC calls for it to migrate into Mexico while never gaining latitude. I agree with limited right component for that time period, but, the conflict for me is that the barotropic models will not pick up changes in the westerlies as well as the global models do, and this does leave some room for Stan to do more of a stall and not actually make it onto land in Mexico. Granted, the lesser of the possibilities, but with early discussion topics, would add to interests in the Gulf because you have the same essential set-up with a actually fully evolved system potentially there…

Wow, very complex! Of course, this is a rough draft of thoughts for our waning tropical season. I’m sure my own opinions will vary by the end of the day…


jmk818
(Registered User)
Sun Oct 02 2005 05:46 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Here is something interesting, all the TV stations here in the Northeast are predicting a windy rainstorm, a "ocean storm" for Friday thru Sunday. What are they talking about. In winter sure, we get the nor-easters all the time, however I see nothing convective in the western atlantic or caribbean sea that looks to be drifting this way, nor is the NHC commenting on anything to be a threat in their outlooks. What do these metrologists know that very few are here talking about? (is it the 25N 68W feature - looks like not much of anything to me)

Justin


Magic Hat
(Verified CFHC User)
Sun Oct 02 2005 06:47 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I'm sure you all have heard the discussion about storm cycles versus global warming trying to explain this year's activity. (if this is considered off topic, please delete it and accept my apology.) Here are some numbers I found: In 1887 we had 19 storms, in 1933 we had 21, and in 1990 we had 14. Normally one could expect to see between 5 and 11 storms per year. One year there was only one storm! However, starting in 1995, here are the number of storms by year: 19,13,8,14,12,15,15,12,16,15, and 20 so far this year. I just counted the number of storms, not if they hit land.

I didn't try to log the average strength by year, but it sure seemed to my untrained eye that we are getting more stronger storms. While we are waiting for all these blobs out there to either develop (or hopefully die), want to discuss your theories? I believe better equipment may account for some of the increase. On the other hand, didn't this site start about the same time the storms increased? Better communication? It certainly proves that this site is a Godsend for us near the coast.

What is causing this increase? Are underwater volcanoes warming the seas?(husband's theory) Is it a cycle? Solar flares? Hubby says there is a definate increase in water vapor in the atmosphere because of ocean warming. Why?

Lu

the record gets less reliable as you go back so we're probably missing some parts of active seasons that would supersede this one (currently 18/9/5). the whole climate change thing is a lot more complicated. human actions are very likely contributing to greenhouse warming... C02 in the atmosphere primarily. all it really does is more effectively trap longwave radiation the earth emits. the climate is REALLY complicated, though... if you want a primer in what may be going on, read a book by Richard Alley (a veteran Penn State climate guy) called The Two Mile Time Machine. the last few chapters especially... which are about what was apparent in cores drilled out of the Greenland ice sheet. he could have written a bunch of technical crap like i usually end up doing, but instead it's written on a not-so-tough level with lots of explanation. i guess because a lot of what you see reported is short sited BS and he wanted a quasi-layman book to get the word out without the media spin. we live in a stable climate time, but ice ages and dramatic climate shifts within just a few years have happened many times in the past. it really puts the little changes we see today in perspective. -HF


Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 01:58 AM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Quote:

I'm sure you all have heard the discussion about storm cycles versus global warming trying to explain this year's activity. Here are some numbers I found: In 1887 we had 19 storms, in 1933 we had 21, and in 1990 we had 14. Normally one could expect to see between 5 and 11 storms per year. One year there was only one storm! However, starting in 1995, here are the number of storms by year: 19, 13, 8, 14, 12, 15, 15, 12, 16, 15, and 20 so far this year. I just counted the number of storms, not if they hit land.

I didn't try to log the average strength by year, but it sure seemed to my untrained eye that we are getting more stronger storms.

What is causing this increase?




Well I think that you answered your own question...what is causing the increase is that we are in an active cycle.

There are many, many years since 1887 when a very large number of storms occured, and a very large active cycle in mid-century. Also since we did not have satellites or reliable ways of identifying fish spinners in the early part of the century, then don't compare apples and oranges in your numbers (if you're going to count storms that don't hit land, remember that the numbers from the earlier years will be missing storms that were not documented).

Now if you are seriously going to do an analysis, then don't make statements that are not verified by statistics, such as "to my untrained eye we are getting more stronger (sic) storms." If you do an analysis of all the data, you'll find that is not the case; there are many records of major hurricanes in previous years. Collective memory is short and fairly unreliable; just because the last two seasons have been busy doesn't mean that they represent a divergent statistic.

There is one thing that has changed dramatically and it is not hurricanes. It is the number of people who live on coastlines, and remember that this includes the northeast (strong hurricanes have hit there; if one hits there again this season or next, again, it will not be anything new).

--want to move these two posts to the other forum where I started a thread on this topic?--


Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 02:27 AM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

i do not think TS Stan will curve northward at all, if anythign i think it'll take a slighty south western track into Mexico. Also, i think this system will just make it to cat. 1 strength before landfall, shouldn't be to bad of a storm, other than possible flooding. and for the ..."as for other basin activity" part of this subject..there really is none..TD19 withh weaken out at sea do to strong shear. I think that something as in the way of Tammy will take place sometime in the next 1-2 weeks, there are some systems in Africa that could pull off the coast and develope, to early to say.

One final thing, HF, whats goin on witht he coastal storm developing, do you still believe it will take place, if not why not if not what happened to change this?

Thanks, Ryan


Big Red Machine
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 05:07 AM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I guess you could say the 00z GFS is... thought provoking.

Criss crosses our little Bahama buddy across Florida, meanders through the central Gulf, strengthens it, and then takes it back across the peninsula in 6 days.

Meanwhile... back east... it forms two more potential cyclones. Meanwhile... up north... it brews up something up. I don't think that we'll see quite all that activity (or perhaps I should make that I HOPE we don't have it). This would mean the end of the alphabet by next Sunday. (Hello Alpha?) But the GFS has been hinting at the potential for developments for a while now.

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/carib/gfs/00/fp1_144.shtml



00z CMC has a similar, interesting take on the system. It shows something I have NEVER seen before. A loop by a tropical system around the ENTIRE Gulf.

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/cmctc2.cg...;hour=Animation

Should be a VERY interesting week.



Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 05:26 AM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

wow... the cmc 2005100300 , it's kinda funny and sad looking... watch the loop... i know its just one model and things change.... but look how it brings something into the EGOM.... near tampa and then sends it west towards NO, almost like a tease, then keeps sending it towards the west towards tx as another tease for the rita victims and then... it's like well time to head south of the border....but then stalls in BOC or SW GOM and begins to head back to the NE..... weird loop....i hope nothing like this happens... it would just be wrong.....and weird....It's been a bad season... we just don't need anything else... but looking at the other models... almost sure well have something in EGOM or off SE coast by late week...thurs-fri....

"a counterclockwise loop system in GOM"...... How would you describe the 2005 season at the end of November?


**just looked at the ukm 2005100300 and it shows almost the same thing as the 00z CMC..... i hope there wrong....but they may be on to something!


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 05:39 AM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

expecting vortex for stan shortly.....

URNT11 KNHC 030520
97779 04504 21212 90518 15200 11029 17178 /2474
RMK AF304 0420A STAN OB 06


Also... saw the NOAA(43RF) P-3 Instrument Status Report on friday had:
Ready to go. Early morning work tomorrow (sat) means the aircraft will not be available for flight until 11am. Aircraft will enter SIDLAM next Monday and will be grounded for several months.

not sure what SIDLAM is, and if it's still a go for monday.....that would mean only one P-3 for this week and
NRL plane, last i saw (friday) might have a landing gear problem...."Landing gear inspection required sometime on Friday. If inspection uncovers problems aircraft may be grounded for several days. Of remaining flight hours, 12 required for de-installation work in Boulder at the end of the project.".... and there appeared only 19.9hrs of flight time left before 50hr inspection..... (7hrs for flight time for a system)


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 06:15 AM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

URNT12 KNHC 030559
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 03/05:33:20Z
B. 20 deg 27 min N
090 deg 58 min W
C. 850 mb 1455 m
D. NA kt
E. deg nm
F. 102 deg 033 kt
G. 024 deg 040 nm
H. 1003 mb
I. 17 C/ 1525 m
J. 18 C/ 1524 m
K. 18 C/ NA
L. NA
M. NA
N. 135 / 8
O. 0.02 / 3 nm
P. AF304 0420A STAN OB 07
MAX FL WIND 43 KT N QUAD 04:28:00 Z
MAX FL TEMP 19 C, 5 / 8NM


emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 12:00 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Good Morning. Does anyone have any ideas on the flare up north of PR? I'm not liking it. I'm ready for Nov 30th. Is that something that can develope and if so will it track west , north, or just do the ole recurve?

Thank You,
Jackie


Beach
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 12:05 PM
70W 25N

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/watl-wv-loop.html

Is there a closed circulation there?


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 12:29 PM
Re: 70W 25N

dunno, but we have another invest per the navy site 91L is up.

Ron Basso
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 01:26 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

There is a new investigation up for the disturbance near the Bahamas - 92 L. Jackie, the disturbance east of the Bahamas is a tropical wave with at least a mid-level circulation within it. The NHC forecasts gradually favorable condtions for development over the next two days. A large high pressure system to the north of the system will steer it generally west over the next 2-3 days. The NAM model predicts development of a tropical cyclone prior to it moving across the S FL peninsula while the GFS and other global models keep it an open wave. However, once it reaches the SE GOM, nearly all the global models develop it into a closed circulation. The system will likely meander in the GOM perhaps reaching the central GOM before being picked up by a deepening east coast trough and cold front progged to dive SE into the northern GOM this weekend, causing it to be steered back toward the FL peninsula. While the details are still not in focus, this one definitely bears watching as Gulf temps are still plenty warm for development.

emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 01:47 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Thank You Ron!

My hard drive crashed and I lost all my links. Could someone post the link to the page that has the computer models? I have the globals but I want the one, (can't remember the site) that links you to the globals. It says something like Show me the Global models please...LOL! It has the drop down menu that you pick the invest number. Does anyone have any clue as to what I'm talking about...rofl!

Thank You,
Jackie


twizted sizter
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 01:50 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Nogaps is showing a trip around the Gulf with the Bahamas system as well.

Modeling has been fairly consistent with activity for Fl for 2-3 days now...whether it's rainmakers or more remains to be seen but a Bear Watch is order for both coasts at the least this week.

Look at the GFS...a chorus line of storms crossing the W coast of Fl...as well as a rather strong one at 114 hrs.

Nothing will surprise me after this season...heck after last season.

Any mets have a take?


Susan in Jupiter, FL
(Verified CFHC User)
Mon Oct 03 2005 01:51 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Don't know if this is the exact one you are looking for........
http://weather.net-waves.com/modelplot.htm


Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 01:55 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Ever since yesterday morning I've beem having trouble trying to get NRL web site loaded. Any alternate URLs? PM me if you like.

I thought I did notice there was some rotation late yesterday evening, in that long line of convection, east of the Bahamas, but wasn't sure. Was going to post here, but this site wasn't coming up either.

Looks like Stan came through with all that LLC intact, and convection started blooming just as soon as the center exited the coast into that coastal area with the deep warm water (until about 94W?).


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 01:57 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

http://tcweb.fnmoc.navy.mil/tc-bin/tc_home.cgi

emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 02:00 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Exactly what I was looking for. Thank You!

Here's what I found on HPC disco:

"TPC/NHC TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK INDICATES POTENTIAL FOR SOME
DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE TROPICAL WAVE CURRENTLY EAST OF THE
BAHAMAS. GUIDANCE AGREES WITH THIS IDEA... BRINGING A WELL DEFINED SYSTEM INTO THE GULF OF MEXICO. TRACK OF THIS FEATURE BY
THE SECOND HALF OF THE PERIOD WILL DEPEND SOMEWHAT ON THE EVENTUAL
AMPLITUDE OF THE ERN CONUS TROF. THE ECMWF IS NOT USUALLY THE
BEST MODEL FOR TROPICAL SYSTEMS... BUT THERE IS REASONABLE
CONSENSUS THAT THE ERN TROF WILL EXERT LESS INFLUENCE THAN FCST BY
GFS RUNS... KEEPING THE TROPICAL FEATURE FARTHER SWWD. THEREFORE
THE 00Z ECMWF/06Z GFS COMPROMISE LEANS MORE IN THE ECMWF
DIRECTION."

That's just great. I'm sick of the storms. When they say a Well defined system, do they mean well defined as it goes to GOM or well defined after it gets there? That makes a big difference for FL.

Thanks!


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 02:04 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

im not sure it matters since the models seem to think it is gonna turn around and head right back to us, so we either get it coming or going or both

sara33
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 02:26 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Which system are you all talking about? I am on the West coast of Fl..St. Petersburg. Also, could you post the link to the models you are looking at?
Thanks everyone.


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 02:30 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

this system is still days out and things could change, but here is the link
one of them anyway
http://moe.met.fsu.edu/tcgengifs/

most models and other info can be found on this site on the fron page at the bottom


sara33
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 02:37 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Thanks Pam

NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 02:49 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

2. SUSPECT AREA (BAHAMAS)
FLIGHT ONE FLIGHT TWO
A. 04/1500Z A. 05/0600,1200Z
B. NOAA2 01IIA INVEST B. AFXXX 02IIA CYCLONE
C. 04/1330Z C. 05/0230Z
D. 24.0N 78.0W D. 24.0N 81.0W
E. 04/1430Z TO 04/2000Z E. 05/0500Z TO 05/1230Z
F. SFC TO 10,000 FT F. SFC TO 10,000 FT

new recon set to go tomorrow


Rabbit
(Weather Master)
Mon Oct 03 2005 02:54 PM
Attachment
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

radar out of Cancun, MX (attached)
It is from yesterday evening, but the idea is to show how much better organized Stan is now compared to when it made landfall yesterday morning.


Wingman51
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 03:16 PM
Bahama Baby

From NWS discussion at 10 am for Eact Central Fl

WE ARE MUCH MORE
INTERESTED IN AN UPPER LOW AND TROPICAL WAVE EAST OF THE
BAHAMAS...MOVING WEST. A CIRCULATION CAN EASILY BE DISCERNED IN THE
INFRARED SAT IMAGERY BUT THIS IS IN THE UPPER LEVELS...AT 250 MB.
THERE IS NO CLOSED SFC CIRCULATION AT THIS TIME...ONLY AN INVERTED
TROUGH. NONETHELESS...THIS TROPICAL WAVE WILL TIGHTEN THE PRESSURE
GRADIENT TUE INCREASING WINDS AND SEAS...CAUSING MINOR BEACH EROSION
AROUND THE TIMES OF HIGH TIDE. SO WILL ISSUE HIGH SURF ADVISORY THIS
AFTN TO TAKE EFFECT TONIGHT AND CONTINUE FOR AT LEAST A FEW HIGH
TIDE CYCLES. NEXT HIGH TIDE IS BETWEEN 8 AND 9 PM.


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 03:25 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

There is some very intense convection being generated by Stan at the moment. The center is somewhere underneath the CDO, but I don't know exactly where. It is in an environment where rapid intensification is possible. It'll be interesting to see what the next recon plane shows.

The disturbed weather east of the Bahamas still doesn't look very tropical at the moment. Whether or not the upper-level winds become more favorable or not as it gets closer to the coast depends partially on what happens with Stan. If Stan becomes stronger than anticipated and/or moves slower than anticipated, both of which are possible, then the outflow from Stan could cause a greater amount of shear to the east.

The system classified as 91L looks like a nice, compact system right now, but the latest SHIPS output predicts doom for it rather quickly, so it may never amount to anything.


emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 03:27 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

2. SUSPECT AREA (BAHAMAS)
FLIGHT ONE FLIGHT TWO
A. 04/1500Z A. 05/0600,1200Z
B. NOAA2 01IIA INVEST B. AFXXX 02IIA CYCLONE
C. 04/1330Z C. 05/0230Z
D. 24.0N 78.0W D. 24.0N 81.0W
E. 04/1430Z TO 04/2000Z E. 05/0500Z TO 05/1230Z
F. SFC TO 10,000 FT F. SFC TO 10,000 FT

Could someone explain line D. to me. Isn't the second part almost on the coast. Seems like they could just look up..LOL! I would think that crossing Fl would change everything anyway. Why not wait till it's in the GOM. Am I reading it incorrectly?

Thanks.


Rabbit
(Weather Master)
Mon Oct 03 2005 03:47 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

the second part is SE of the Keys

emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 03:51 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Duhh. Sorry about that. Poor Keys. I hope they don't get hit again. Not only that but things have gone down hill everytime they got hit this year.

hurricane expert
(Really Not an Expert)
Mon Oct 03 2005 03:53 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

The navy web site is putting 92L a tropical deppression with 30 knots.

MapMaster
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:03 PM
Re: 92L a TD?

Where do you see that?....I just looked, it is still 92L, if it were a td they would list it as 'noname'....

MM


MapMaster
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:05 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Both are in the Atlantic before crossing into the GOM...

Not sure what you mean about waiting???

MM


Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:22 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Quote:

The navy web site is putting 92L a tropical deppression with 30 knots.




But I thought there was no closed surface circulation?

Looking back at it on sat image again...lack of experience; can't tell.


emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:25 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Nevermind. I've confused myself as much as you...LOL! I had two parts incorrect. I was thinking that 24N was farther North then the keys and I thought flight 2 was tomorrow also. I figured if it was to move that fast ,it wouldn't have time to organize enough to warrant 2 investigations.

Thanks anyway though.
Jackie


scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:29 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Yeah the sat might find 30kt winds but it wont mean its closed. BTW some reason I cant get the Navys site up,,,maybe its down but anyone have link that works?

zmdz01
(Weather Watcher)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:32 PM
Navy website

Everyone:

I am using this link for the Navy website. I just checked it and it still works.

http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/tc_pages/tc_home.html

Marcus


Hootowl
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:34 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I used the backup link a while ago and it worked.

http://tcweb.fnmoc.navy.mil/tc-bin/tc_home.cgi

good luck!


scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:38 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I did get it on 1 link but then gave me a forbidden,,,server problems they have maybe??

scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:45 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

now its working for me also.

Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:46 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

NRL TC web page hasn't been downloading at all, or has been running so slow it times out with an error msg, since yesterday morning. You can get the page above it, but cannot get down. Web server must be experiencing probs.

MapMaster
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 04:52 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

19L is indeed a td---it is 90L, not 92L.

MM


HanKFranK
(User)
Mon Oct 03 2005 05:11 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

19 is history since yesterday. there's still a low level swirl out in the open atlantic.. no consequence.
sorta blew it with stan. i wasn't counting on the ridging forcing it sw, but that's where all the models are clustered and have been for a couple days. official takes it very close to the population center of veracruz, so they'd better get ready.
91L is slated to replicate the general motion of td 19 and doesn't have much in the way of prospects. hostile environment ahead.
92L i'm not sure what to make of. can see the upper low and the displaced surface trough. there's a long wind-shift line running southeast of all that and i'm not of the opinion that something can't form further back along it. area north of hispaniola looks downright favorable (low level convergence, ridging present aloft). modeling as a group likes the feature near the bahamas right now and develops a closed low as it pushes past south florida into the gulf late tomorrow/early wed. i'm not sure if this will play out as shown or not. it's been mostly ignored, but there's another small trough max/low east of hatteras that's been persisting for days. not writing it off either.
there's almost definitely a system or two in this mess.
HF 1711z03october


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 05:21 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

92L is likely producing winds to at least what you would associate with a tropical depression, but there is no evidence of a closed surface circulation thus far. Given the relatively high pressure to the north of the system, it would not take a very intense surface low to produce tropical storm force winds to the north of the center, and if there was enough convection around the center, it would have to be classified as a tropical system. That has not happened yet, though. If a surface low does form from 92L, it is possible that the system will be at or near tropical storm intensity from the first advisory.

emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 05:35 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

The new CMC model: http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cyclonephase/cmcglb/fcst/archive/05100312/64.html

And the new MM5-AF: http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cyclonephase/mm5af/fcst/archive/05100312/7.html

Are doing a north Florida threat.

UKMET: http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cyclonephase/ukm/fcst/archive/05100312/90.html

Is doing a south florida, GOM turnaround thing.

I hate when some go south and some go north. Makes me think it may meet in the middle.
I'd rather a fish spinner thank you!


Ed in Va
(Weather Master)
Mon Oct 03 2005 05:51 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

92L TC Guidance from Colo State:

http://euler.atmos.colostate.edu/~vigh/guidance/atlantic/early1.png


Bloodstar
(Moderator)
Mon Oct 03 2005 05:53 PM
Turning just north of PR?

Anyone else see a weak turning just north of PR on Long Range Radar Loop?

http://radar.weather.gov/radar/loop/DS.p20-r/si.tjua.shtml

-Mark
(edited to add link to radar)


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 06:32 PM
Stan

New vortex found a central pressure of 999 mb in Stan, though with 26 knot winds at the surface in the dropsonde, the actual central pressure is likely somewhat lower. The dropsonde data has been interesting... one drop north of the center recorded 48 knot surface winds, even though the max flight level winds found so far are only 38 knots. The official intensity is up to 55 mph, which is somewhere between 45-50 knots.

The latest SHIPS guidance brings Stan up to near cat 3 intensity before landfall in about 48 hours.


Big Kahuna
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 06:54 PM
Re: gfs?

Has anybody checked out the gfs animation on 850mb? I guess they dont like Florida much.
http://moe.met.fsu.edu/tcgengifs/


Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 07:03 PM
Re: gfs?

yea im looking at the GFS right now, it seems like they have a system forming then slitting and going in dirrent, a part of it with pressure estimated at 996-1000 mb going over the NC extreme eastern areas the coming up the coast and going over RI-Cape Cod area, some of the other little storms that look to have "broke off" affect areas like NC, SC, GA coastal areas, and western Florida.. well i gues we'll wait and see but looking at GFS theres all the systems i talked aboiut, then like 2 or 3 more over by Africa. Ohhhh boy..

Ryan


Bloodstar
(Moderator)
Mon Oct 03 2005 07:08 PM
Models and other things

Well, well well. I wonder what is causing the cut off lows to form in the eastern atlantic? All the models are forecasting anotherone to be stuck out there....

91L has about 24 hours to do something, it's firing up some modest convection near the LLC, but it's about to get pummeled by shear, so it's running out of time. It's odd, but by some definitions it's close to TD status, but probably will never get the benefit of the doubt, barring some very strong convection.

Former TD19 is just barely firing up any convection, but has still maintained a low level swirl around 41W 22N heading just south of due west.

How is Stan Stationary? I'm sure it's just a short term thing, but it still leaves me a little suprised.

The blob that is 92, it's way too complex for me to understand what's going on, though I still maintain there is a hint of a twist in the area near PR (perhaps it's simply convergence).

Any further thoughts and observations?


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 07:24 PM
Re: Models and other things

i must be way off cuz what i am seeing is more over by 23/73

emackl
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 07:28 PM
Re: Models and other things

LOL! I'm seeing it on visable around 23/70!

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/watl-vis-loop.html


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 07:30 PM
Re: Models and other things

This would be why i am not an expert lmao i have nooooo idea


Bloodstar
(Moderator)
Mon Oct 03 2005 07:37 PM
Re: Models and other things

23N 70W is where 92L is

And I'm just seeing something Near PR, I'm counting it as part of 92L which may or may not be accurate... (And I could be seeing things.... so don't mind me)

21N 42W is where former TD19 is


-mark


Big Kahuna
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 07:40 PM
Re: Models and other things

from the NHC discussion:

THE ATLANTIC OCEAN...
A MIDDLE TO UPPER LEVEL LOW CENTER IS NEAR 25N70W. A SURFACE
TROUGH IS ALONG 73W/74W FROM 21N TO 30N DRIFTING WEST. SCATTERED
MODERATE TO STRONG SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS COVER THE AREA FROM
20N TO 30N BETWEEN 63W AND 73W. HIGHER LEVEL ANTICYCLONIC FLOW
IS ON TOP OF THE AREA OF THE 25N70W LOW AND SURFACE TROUGH...

anybody have any asprin.....


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 07:42 PM
Re: Models and other things

The most obvious low-level turning I can find on the VIS is near 23N/75W, just east of George Town in the Bahamas, where the winds have come around to the NNE. This is well-removed from the convection further east, though. It's tough to tell if there is a surface circulation further east from there, since you have clouds at different levels moving in different directions, thanks to the mid-level circulation around 25N, 70W.

Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 08:11 PM
Stan

Stan really likes the Bay of Campeche so far... the latest IR has cloud tops approaching -90C (!). The wind field continues to be atypical, with the max flight-level winds so far at 41 knots, but the max surface wind from the dropsondes at 52 knots.

ParrishNStPeteFL
(Verified CFHC User)
Mon Oct 03 2005 08:27 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

And does anyone know what exactly is coming back at us(live in St. Pete) i.e. disturbance, or TD or what? Or too early to tell?

oil trader
(Weather Watcher)
Mon Oct 03 2005 08:28 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Anyone has already figured out the probabilities of 92L becoming a Hurricane when it gets the GOM?

Thanks


sara33
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 08:34 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I was wondering the same thing re: St. Pete...I don't like the early models. Anyone have any clue about the intensity..or the accuracy of these models.I know it's early...Thanks!

D3m3NT3DVoRT3X
(Weather Watcher)
Mon Oct 03 2005 08:38 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

its waaaaaaaaay to early to tell altho i live in st. pete and our time is due for sum massive system .. i wouldnt put much into any model past 2 or 3 days tops

Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 08:45 PM
Re: Stan

Because of the shallow continental shelf to the west and north of the Yucatan, the warm water there is deep...but past the shelf in the Bay of Campeche, while SSTs are warm, there is no deep warm water. The longer Stan remains stationary, since other conditions are expected to remain favorable, the longer Stan will intensify. And even if Stan intensifies more than currently anticipated, if the subsequent movement west is slow as predicted, then the cooler deep water will probably not support maintaining that intensity through to landfall. In fact the predicted SW path takes Stan over a pool of cooler water in the BOC with less than 10kcal/cm sq.

Having said that, the NHC forecast is for continued intensification right up until landfall, but only just to solid Cat 1. Just shows what do I know? I'd expect a more rapid intensification with pressure going down to 980-985 range today, but then back up to around 990 before landfall.

At least I was mollified to learn later that the entire time Rita's intensity was increasing, she was over the loop current, and I just didn't have a good mental visual on where that current was located (http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=17041).


Brad in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Mon Oct 03 2005 08:47 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

It sounds like you're referring to the tropical models (BAMM, BAMD, LBAR, A98E), a graphical depiction of which is on the flhurricane.com front page (Skeetobite's map, I believe). If so, I've pasted the latest run below, which also shows the SHPS and Decay-SHPS intensity guidance, but take those with a huge grain of salt. In addition to potential inaccuracies of the models' handling of systems, those runs assume that a 30kt depression centered at 23.3/75.1 already exists. That obviously is not the case. Even if an organized warm-core system develops (a big "if"), the location of it and its initial intensity likely will greatly change the output from the tropical models.

As for other models, which of course also have limitations but several of which are programmed to attempt to predict the genesis of systems, look back at the last few pages; other users have posted links to several of them.

DISCLAIMER...NUMERICAL MODELS ARE SUBJECT TO LARGE ERRORS.
PLEASE REFER TO TPC/NHC OFFICIAL FORECASTS FOR TROPICAL CYCLONES.

.....THE FOLLOWING IS A TEST MESSAGE.....

NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER NORTH ATLANTIC OBJECTIVE AIDS FOR

TROPICAL DEPRESSION INVEST (AL922005) ON 20051003 1800 UTC

...00 HRS... ...12 HRS... ...24 HRS... ...36 HRS...
051003 1800 051004 0600 051004 1800 051005 0600

LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON
BAMD 23.3N 75.1W 23.0N 76.5W 23.2N 77.8W 23.9N 79.1W
BAMM 23.3N 75.1W 23.3N 77.0W 23.6N 78.6W 24.4N 80.1W
A98E 23.3N 75.1W 23.5N 77.4W 23.7N 79.2W 24.2N 80.7W
LBAR 23.3N 75.1W 23.4N 77.0W 23.7N 79.0W 24.4N 81.2W
SHIP 30KTS 34KTS 43KTS 51KTS
DSHP 30KTS 34KTS 43KTS 51KTS

...48 HRS... ...72 HRS... ...96 HRS... ..120 HRS...
051005 1800 051006 1800 051007 1800 051008 1800

LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON
BAMD 25.3N 80.4W 28.6N 83.3W 31.5N 84.0W 37.6N 74.0W
BAMM 25.6N 81.4W 28.4N 83.7W 30.0N 85.0W 32.6N 80.7W
A98E 25.3N 81.9W 27.4N 83.0W 30.3N 82.3W 35.5N 73.7W
LBAR 25.0N 83.3W 27.1N 86.3W 28.8N 88.4W 32.5N 86.0W
SHIP 60KTS 73KTS 80KTS 71KTS
DSHP 55KTS 65KTS 57KTS 31KTS

...INITIAL CONDITIONS...
LATCUR = 23.3N LONCUR = 75.1W DIRCUR = 275DEG SPDCUR = 11KT
LATM12 = 23.0N LONM12 = 72.5W DIRM12 = 273DEG SPDM12 = 11KT
LATM24 = 22.7N LONM24 = 68.9W
WNDCUR = 30KT RMAXWD = 100NM WNDM12 = 30KT
CENPRS = 1008MB OUTPRS = 1010MB OUTRAD = 105NM SDEPTH = D
RD34NE = 0NM RD34SE = 0NM RD34SW = 0NM RD34NW = 0NM

.....THE ABOVE HAS BEEN A TEST MESSAGE.....


sara33
(Weather Guru)
Mon Oct 03 2005 08:50 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Thanks so much! Still learning soo much from you all.

Sheeper
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 09:03 PM
Re: Katrina Aftermath - even rebar

folks, i just returned from cooridinating a medical strike team thru Biloxi and Pass Christian. the damage is amazing

take a look at http://seldes.net/images/10-3-2005-19.jpg if you ever wonder about the power of these storms. The destroyed house in the link was made out of rebarred poured concrete. Something many in Florida refer to as "hurricane proof". this house is not damaged....it is gone and the concrete rebar in bent and snapped. With all of the disasters I've responed to this is the worst. I've not seen damage on this scale before....even Andrew.


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 09:18 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

well i found what is 92L (invest) on a visible sat... not sure how to post link... its from the Global Hydrology and Climate Center, GOES-E HURRICANE Visible Satellite Data, web page.... My image is centered at Latitude= 23.44° N Longitude= 74.93° W (X=352 Y=188).... and i did a medium range zoom and 25 frames of loop..... It's cleary visible to my eye of the surface rotation.... no storms near the center.... most of convection is to the east.... and its right exactly where early1.png file is pointing....

Here's the main page

http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/goeseasthurr.html


Margie
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Mon Oct 03 2005 09:20 PM
Re: Katrina Aftermath - even rebar

That's amazing...that's the way they build in Cozumel, and a lot of places down there have stood the test of many storms.

That's definitely surge damage. I wonder if the velocity of the surge is a factor in this kind of damage, and also if a building rotated 45 deg (so the V is facing the surge) would make any difference.

Camille's surge was so powerful it pulled plumbing pipes from concrete foundations. On one of the MS barrier islands (can't remember if it was Ship or Horn Island), a house was built on piers -- the thick wood posts that have to be pounded into the ground by that huge machine, like they build all the houses in places like Ocean City NJ -- and the building was tied to the piers...so Katrina simply pulled out some of the piers from the ground when she took the building.

Both ends of Horn Island were left underwater by Katrina -- one a beach that is over a mile long, and part of Petis Bois Island as well. West Ship Island is leveled except for the fort (another hurricane, Camille, split Ship Island in two in 1969). Still, that isn't as bad as the Chaneleur Islands in LA; IVAN had taken off all the foliage, and after Katrina they are for the most part shoals.

On second look...those look more like pillars rather than integrated parts of a wall. This may have been the piers that a house was build upon, and then I could understand the failure if the surge was higher than the piers, if there was a house on top, and no support on the ground level between each pier.


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 09:39 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

I'm gonna come along now and say that pretty much all of you are right on the location of the "center" of 92L -- how's that for being ambiguous?

There appears to be some broad turning near Cat Island in the Bahamas, or approximately the position Storm Hunter referenced. However, this is likely a surface reflection of a sharp but narrow upper-level trough with an embedded weak upper-level low in about the same location. Whether or not it is directly associated with an upper-low or not, conditions in this are are unfavorable for development due to strong northerly shear (partially along the west side of the narrow trough, partially due to the outflow from Stan).

The area toward the east, however, is a much more favorable region for development. There is strong diffluence (divergent winds) aloft with an upper-level ridge building in across the area. While there does not appear to be any surface center within the midst of the large convective field across the region from well east of Daytona Beach SE-ward to Puerto Rico, there are strong low-level easterly winds at low levels on the north side of this area and weak overall winds on the south side of this area. Given how one sustained convective burst and the pressure falls that are associated with such an event can lead to the development of a surface circulation, I'd say it's a good bet that something ultimately forms within the midst of that cloud mass.

The precise location of the circulation formation has little impact upon the ultimate track -- west-northwest, then northwest -- but does impact what areas will see what weather from this system. Overall, Florida is in for at least a good bit of rain through the late part of the week and into the weekend...possibly more depending on what happens. My best guess is that something forms in the midst of the convection currently near 24N/70-72W and moves toward the WNW toward the state of Florida over the next couple of days. How much of something forms is yet to be determined.

The setup for something to form is quite similar to how Katrina, Rita, and Franklin formed over the course of this season with an upper-low and the associated diffluence aloft interacting with a tropical wave to its northeast; as the upper-low weakens and/or moves out, tropical development can begin in earnest. The ultimate track is likely to be somewhere between Katrina and Franklin's tracks -- i.e. west-northwest across the state of Florida, perhaps into the northern Gulf S of the Fl. Panhandle -- with intensity a crapshoot at this point. It could be a weak vortex that never reaches depression status, or it could be a minimal hurricane. Best bet is for something in the middle.

We'll watch it over the coming days -- Stan, too, for whatever happens with it as it strengthens in the Bay of Campeche -- and keep the updates coming.


crpeavley
(Weather Watcher)
Mon Oct 03 2005 11:02 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

Clark, what about the low GFS has shown for a few runs moving NE from the gulf, accross flroida around friday (18Z GFS)? Not heard much on this in the midst of developing weather to our east.

Hootowl
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 11:10 PM
Re: Models and other things

I'm thinking of changing from Hootowl to Tylenol. This season (and last) have just about given me the worst headaches of my entire life!!!

o.k. I've been watching the models for days and days now. Why? Cause I was foolish enough to wish for rain. We haven't had any rain to speak of for the longest time. I am not liking what I see on the model runs today. I also am not sure which models are the best for this time of year. (I watch the GFS, GFDL & UKM) We are in a season change and I really don't know if that makes a difference as to which one/ones are better than others. - any Mets care to help me on this?

I would like to thank all of you for your input and direction you are wonderful!

Dotty (aka Tylenol)

yeah what crpeavley said too. confusing (rolls eyes and shakes head)!


crpeavley
(Weather Watcher)
Mon Oct 03 2005 11:19 PM
Re: TS Stan and Other Basin Activity

The 18Z NAM and GFS show two disticnt scenarios concerning the approaching wave, with the NAM deepening a system over S Florida by 36 hours and GFS keeping it more shallow, or taking something deeper NW instead. Interested to hear some preferences for either and why...

dave foster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Mon Oct 03 2005 11:51 PM
Re: Stan

I've been tracking Stan since it left the Yucatan. The NHC at 1600cdt still have it tracking WSW, but as far as I can see it made a big turn towards the south from it's previous position. What's driving it at the moment? Has a pressure system to the SE slipped eastward allowing Stan to turn behind it and move south? I'm a novice so I'm just guessing. Looks like it could hit category one on the 2200 if I'm wrong. If it does continue south and start to pick up friction from the coast then maybe it won't.

Check out the Google Earth plot on my site.


bobbutts
(Weather Hobbyist)
Tue Oct 04 2005 12:17 AM
Re: Stan

Speaking of google earth, anyone here who has it should try out this network link
http://www.paulseabury.com/tropModels.kmz
It has overlays of model runs, sst's, satellite images, and analysis

Another good one can be found here
http://wdssii.nssl.noaa.gov/geotiff/
This is the "CONUS Radar Reflectivity (Composite)" overlay in google earth

And one more that shows all the known storm tracks from 1850-present
http://www.paulseabury.com/storms.html
the author wrote:
"Using the databse provided at NOAA's Coastal Services Center ( NOAA CSC ) I made a series of kmz's that show all storm tracks, as well as various storm information at each observation."


Rubén
(Registered User)
Tue Oct 04 2005 12:22 AM
Re: Stan


http://meteorologia.semar.gob.mx/meteoro/cayo_arcas.php

This confirm the NHC bulletin advisory 09A at 23.6 milles from the center.

Look that rain!!


Ryan
(Storm Tracker)
Tue Oct 04 2005 12:54 AM
GFS

yea im looking at the GFS right now, it seems like they have a system forming then slitting and going in dirrent, a part of it with pressure estimated at 996-1000 mb going over the NC extreme eastern areas the coming up the coast and going over RI-Cape Cod area, some of the other little storms that look to have "broke off" affect areas like NC, SC, GA coastal areas, and western Florida.. well i gues we'll wait and see but looking at GFS theres all the systems i talked aboiut, then like 2 or 3 more over by Africa. Ohhhh boy..

Ryan =)


Genesis
(Weather Guru)
Tue Oct 04 2005 12:55 AM
Re: Stan

Quote:

Speaking of google earth, anyone here who has it should try out this network link
http://www.paulseabury.com/tropModels.kmz
It has overlays of model runs, sst's, satellite images, and analysis




WOW!

Now that's cool. I'm a big Google Earth lover - didn't know someone had done an overlay for it....

Had to save that one......


dave foster
(Weather Hobbyist)
Tue Oct 04 2005 01:13 AM
Re: Stan

Interesting.

Just found Cayo Arcas on Google Earth, right in the middle of Stan's path.
100mms of rain in the last four hours eh? Guess someone's a bit wet.

BTW, what's a little island doing all the way out there on it's own on a night like this?


Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Tue Oct 04 2005 02:19 AM
Re: Stan

Poking around the model runs a bit, looks to me that 92L is a little random on the track. One thing I am picking up - and the CMC does this the most interesting way - is it appears that there is a 2nd circulation/low right next to 92L that will develop and become the dominant one. A number of the tracks I'm seeing seem to jump from the 92L one to the newly forming one after a couple days - so I'd toss most tracks out the window. We don't even know if that new one will develop, or if is just the models having fun with our minds.

It looks to me that we'll have another named storm in the next week or two - it's more a matter of which low forms it first. 92L is likely to beat anything else. Somehow I doubt that we won't break the "end of the alphabet" this year - there's just too much time left in the season...and the Atlantic still seems quite interested in spawning lows associated with tropical waves.

--RC


HanKFranK
(User)
Tue Oct 04 2005 03:11 AM
Re: Stan

somewhere between the florida straits and near puerto rico something ought to spin up over the next day or two. who knows, could be a little north of that line. once something gets going it'll probably move towards or over florida, then up the east coast. i'm guessing that the thing following stan into the gulf is a separate entity that will meander around like the models suggest. stan itself is nudging sw across the BoC and should go inland some time on wednesday--probably as a minimal hurricane. it's too close to land to really spin up i'm thinking, though it could end up being surprisingly strong.
in the medium to long range whatever is left in the gulf may move across florida and off the east coast.. and modeling suggests that more will try to brew up in the nw caribbean/yucatan region going into mid month. i'm discounting the stuff showing in the eastern atlantic as that region hasn't shown much proclivity to spawn things this year (aside from a doomed depression and some early medium-trackers).
with stan going in to the western bay of campeche coastline, that's the fourth system to hit that region this year. granted the other three were tropical storms, but that's still quite a concentration of hits.
HF 0311z04october


Hurricane Fredrick 1979
(Weather Guru)
Tue Oct 04 2005 05:31 AM
Re: Stan

000
URNT12 KNHC 040449
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 04/04:27:10Z
B. 19 deg 28 min N
093 deg 49 min W
C. 700 mb 3005 m
D. NA kt
E. NA deg nm
F. 148 deg 047 kt
G. 061 deg 013 nm
H. 989 mb
I. 9 C/ 3051 m
J. 16 C/ 3066 m
K. 7 C/ NA
L. NA
M. NA
N. 1 345/ 7
O. 0.02 / 1 nm
P. AF304 0620A STAN OB 05
MAX FL WIND 47 KT NE QUAD 04:23:00 Z


HanKFranK
(User)
Tue Oct 04 2005 06:41 AM
latest adv. on stan

that sucker is coming up pretty quick. good thing it doesn't have but a day or less over water. stan is going to move slowly enough as it goes inland and once inland that rainfall amounts ought to be pretty high in places... especially the country between oaxaca and puebla. on the coast veracruz looks to take a pretty solid hit, but the worst conditions will be around the village of alvarado if the forecast track verifies. stan ought to decouple from its ridging and a lot of its mid level vorticity by wednesday, so there will be plenty of support for another system to make a development run in the gulf later in the week.
HF 0641z04october


meranto
(Verified CFHC User)
Tue Oct 04 2005 08:38 AM
Re: latest adv. on stan

Wow, thats some pretty heavy deep convection, -85C / -90C cloud tops you don't see everyday.


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