MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:48 AM
Category 4 Hurricane Dean Moving Westward Toward Jamaica

7:50PM EDT 17 August 2007 Update
Latest recon reports suggest that Dean is now a Category 4 hurricane, vortex message is yet to arrive, however. Estimated surface winds would be around 130-135MPH.


6:20PM EDT 17 August 2007 Update

Dean is still a strong Category 3 storm, moving westward. Hurricane watches are now up for Jamaica, and those there need to be prepared now for a major hurricane.



2 PM EDT Update 17 Aug 2007
Dean is now a major hurricane, category 3, with 125MPH winds, moving westward. Aircraft Recon found high flight level winds in their latest run through, with a pressure of 961mb.



Model wise, the GFS pushed a bit souther, while the GFDL moved east and north a bit, taking Dean barely to the west of New Orleans. While Dean will likely be a major threat anywhere it hits, that track would be a particularly bad one. That makes the GFDL an outlier, but it is adding some drama to the track forecast.

Basically, now is the time where model confidence is going down the tubes, and folks along from Mexico throughout the Gulf will need to watch. Dean may surprise us all.

(Portions from Thunderbird)

8:25 AM EDT Update 17 Aug 2007
Dean is now in the Eastern Caribbean and the track models have begun to shift a bit north due to interactions with an Upper Level low, causing a real issue for some of the models. This means, now more than ever, that the entire Gulf should be watching it. Those in Jamaica should be prepared for a major hurricane, and the Caymans after that. The GFDL projects a very strong hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico in the later part of the run.

Dean itself appears to have shaken the dry air intrusion, and has begun another reintensification stage, already looking better on satellite, and the eye is once again visible on the radar out of Martinique, and recon aircraft are out there now as well.

6:15 AM EDT Update 17 Aug 2007

Hurricane Dean has "shot the gap" between Martinique to the North and St. Lucia to the south. But clipping the southern part of Martinique more. It's looking a little ragged, most likely because of light shear and some dry air that got involved in the western side of the system. That should hold or weaken Dean at least for the next 12 to 24 hours, after that, conditions once again improve, so the next direct worry, Jamaica, needs to be prepared The official forecast takes it to category 4 by the time it reaches Jamaica, and after that water temperatures are high enough to support a Category 5, which some models project.


Martinique Radar Animation Recording

The upper level low around the Bahamas, mentioned earlier, is starting to have an affect on the models, mainly complicating things a bit, several models have shifted north overnight, but most continue moving it westerly. This increases the chance that it will make it into the Gulf Southwestern Central Gulf (Southwest Gulf, north of the Yucatan) in the official forecast from the NHC. It still should be watched by the entire Gulf, however.

Original Update
Dean is holding hurricane strength as it approaches the leeward Islands, best of luck and godspeed to all those in the islands, Especially those like Martinique where the storm may cross directly over. Warnings are up for much of the Windward Islands in the Lesser Antilles.



Dean isn't looking as organized as it was earlier, but it is still quite a powerful hurricane. Hopefully it will hold or weaken a bit before it crosses the islands.



After the islands, Hurricane Dean should continue on a west to west northwest track and pass near or over the southern coast of Jamaica Sunday afternoon with sustained winds of 120mph (perhaps even higher). Dean should pass just south of Grand Cayman Island in the early hours of Monday morning and pass close to Cozumel, Mexico, late Monday evening - probably as a Category IV major hurricane. After clipping the northeast Yucatan peninsula on Tuesday, current model trends suggest that Dean will enter the southern Gulf of Mexico and begin to re-strengthen. And upper level low near the Bahamas is one of the largest variables right now for the long range track, and is the wildcard.

Track confidence is high - the western extension of the Atlantic ridge should keep Dean on a west northwest track - well south of Florida. Those in the Gulf would be wise to continue watching the track of dean.

Event Related Links:

Jamaican StormCarib Reports
Jamaican Meteorological Service
{{Radarlink|jua|San Juan, Puerto Rico}}
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Radar
Martinique Radar Animation Recording
{{StormCarib}}
{{StormLinks|Dean|04|4|2007|1|Hurricane Dean (Far Eastern Atlantic)}}


blue flash
(Registered User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:56 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles


This is my all-time favorite satellite link. It really lets you see the relationship between weather systems. A shear-free environment ahead for Dean for several hundred miles.


www.atmos.washington.edu/~ovens/loops/wxloop.cgi?wv_east_enhanced+12


SkeetoBiteAdministrator
(Master of Maps)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:00 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles



charlottefl
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:01 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I think it's interesting to not the fact that the NHC is paying attention to the ULL in the bahamas.
Even they acknowledge the fact that it may have an impact on the storm later in the forcast period.


hurricaneguy
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:02 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I noticed Ivan and Emily both struggled in the area that Dean is entering right now? Dean does not look as healthy as it did earlier. Is this a trend or just coincidence? We also all know what happened after those storms left the islands. Boom, monsters! Look out Caribbean.

MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:05 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Here's the models that Emily had at the same relative longitude that Dean is at right now:



Emily was a little bit further south, however.


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:06 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I hope Dean stays speeding along at this rate because if it does I believe it will outrun itself in the Caribbean and fall apart. I have seen it happen so many times before in the same situation that Dean is in. I just don't think it can sustain itself if it continues at this rate of speed. All of this talk about a Cat 4 or 5 and where it's going could hopefully all be for not if it can keep motoring along at this clip.

Shawn


CaneTrackerInSoFl
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:18 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

OU,

That is just not likely. Dean is a well constructed system in an area of little shear. The whole idea that it will "out run itself" is almost silly. See Charley.


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:35 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I've seen other storms with the same structure as well as perfect upper air patterns who have suffered the same fate of outrunning themselves. I can't remember the name off hand but about 3 or 4 years ago there was a storm in the same location as Dean is now that had everything in its favor to blow up into a monster. In fact, the official forecast was calling for it to turn into a monster, just like with Dean. However, that storm left everyone scratching their heads once it reached the central caribbean because it just fell apart...all because it was just going too fast to maintain itself any longer. Sure, I could easily be wrong,however, I could easily be right as well.

Shawn


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:36 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

hmm... looking at the late cycle runs i am getting in... seems to me that since 12z this morning... the models seem to be getting wider at about day 4-5 and on... Still same general motion to the WNW... toward the Cancun area, but the tightly cluster runs we were seeing, seem to be going the other way... But so far the most models are in such good agreement in the short term. I expect if the outflow can get going near Jamica... we could see a very strong system, unless the upper pattern in western Carb. becomes less favorable. We shall see... its going to be bad in the islands tomorrow!

ftlaudbob
(Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:50 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

The great New England Hurricane of 1938 was moving close to 60mph,And it held togeather just fine.So I doubt going less than 30mph would kill a storm.

weatherguy08
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 04:12 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Another interesting thing is that interaction with land can always affect the track. If I recall from 2005, the forecast on Katrina was not very confident until it reemerged off the coast of Florida. Also, if you look on the 400 - 850 MB Layer Mean Wind Analysis, it seems that if Dean were to meet up with the system over the Bahamas, or it deepened, Dean could very well be pulled north. So basically it seems that the soon Dean were to seriously interact with the system, the farther north he would travel. Also, historically speaking, it seems that the National Hurricane Center forecasts for days 3 - 5 tend to be too far to the left (i.e. west). Examples of this include Ivan in 2004 (originally forecast to hit Biloxi, MS then hit Pensacola, FL), Rita in 2005 (originally forecast to hit Port O'Connor, TX then hit at the LA-TX border), and Ernesto in 2006 (originally forecast to hit the Florida Panhandle then hit the Miami Area). The northern Gulf for sure cannot be said to be "in the clear" at this point.

Jason
http://www.freewebs.com/jays_weather_center


weather999
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:00 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

looking at the latest radar/sat. image loops as a basis, it appears dean's slightly 'deteriorated' satellite presentation has improved, looking more symmetrical.. an eye has also appeared on the martinique radar pictures.

my estimate is that dean will reach a higher end cat 4 in the days to come


hurricaneguy
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:05 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

You can also make out a pin hole eye on the last IR loop.

dem05
(User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:14 AM
Attachment
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

EDIT: Do not open attachment on this post, it likely wont open up. Please open the attachment pasted on the next post after reading. Sorry about that, gang.

Well, I am very proud of the National Hurricane Center this evening. As always, they have thouroughy discussed the parameters of their forecast. Tonight, they have also recognized that there may be a forecasting problem with the models and they have strayed in a very positive way...indicating that surprises may come, despite the model agreement (In other words, they are implementing/leaning on their synoptic meteorology 6th sense that things may notbe as they seem). Also, I appluad them for specifically stating that the Gulfstream IVmission was a near environment flight. In other words, they indicated that the flight data did not sample the total area needed to make adequate model adjustments, with particular mention to days 3,4,5. This must include the upper Bahamas Low and other weather downstream...In the end, thisonly makes sense, they can't fly only one plane everywhere in a couple hours and get good data

Tonight, my concerns do grow regarding the Bahamas low. If you have seen my previous posts on the previous thread, you will recall my statements on the Bahamas cut off low, high pressure ridges, jet stream interaction, and etc. Those comments still apply. I do grow more concerned about the Bahamas low becuase it may now be tapping into the jet stream, forming a jet stream split and a legitimate trough that may add strength to the TUTT like feature that is south of the Bahamas Low. In additional, the Bahamas low may be getting some help/ooph in getting a trough going by an UpperLow around 52N,72W. Over the course of the day, my Water vapor analysis has evolved into a true 3-D analysis (looking at systems and their combined interaction to the East, West, North, and south of Dean). All seem to be players to some degree or another. You really need to watch dowstream, upstream, north and south with this one. I have posted an attachment that showns the probable formation of a jet stream split as of this current time frame, after viewing it, I invite you to go to the following water Vapor Link (Don't forget to mash on the HDW-high radio button to see the wind barbs): http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/nwatl/loop-wv.html


dem05
(User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:18 AM
Attachment
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Attachment repost....Sorry Folks! The picture was too big!!! DOH! Trying again. Remeber to stay a max width of 600 pixels or less on photo/scanned image attachments.

weathernet
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:29 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Having chased hurricanes for a good number of years, it would merely sound cliche' to state that each Hurricane track and landfall is unique. While each event involves differing steering mechanisms, along with distinct upper air conditions, these nuances sometimes introduce merely a wrinkle of sudden deepening or weekening or perhaps a tendancy to wobble due to a storms vorticity max rotating around the eye or perhaps a given land mass and the interaction with the approaching storm. I cannot help but remember comparing forecast models, only to be outwitted by one in particular - CLIPPER. While I remain a devout supporter of statistical data which would might support Dean to move on a predominant 275 to 285 degree heading, I cannot help but to defer some reference to Climatology and Persistance.

In the case of Hurricane Dean, a late July or August, a westward retrograding 594mb high ( or higher ) to move along with a hurricane is often a signal of primary steering for future storms that season. Somewhat puzzling to me is the practically trapped cut-off low, given the significance of the CONUS Plains ridging also in place. My first thought would be that with the upcomming digging trough along the E. U.S. Seaboard, that the cut-off would tend to be pulled N.E.ward. In many years, that loud "sucking sound" you hear, would be the sound of whatever Tropical Cylcone in the general vacinity getting sucked ahead and northward into the trough and up and out to the Atlantic storm graveyard. Given the fairly merged ridging however, this seems unlikely. Even the 0Z GFS seems to slow the forward progression slightly, as compared to same forecast periods 24 hours ago.

While not a dramatic alteration to the forecast track, I do beleive that as the cut-off low is slowly pushed southwestward or westward, at some point Dean's forward motion should slow down. Depending on the time which Dean "catches" up with the influences of this mid to upper low, some wobbles or short term variations in course could occur. This could potentially raise impacting conditions to Haiti and Cuba, and potentially work to lessen a direct hit on Jaimaca if a jog north ensues. If this cut-off low is held practically stationary in the Gulf, it may not fully reflect down to the 500mb level, certainly would seem to impact Dean's outflow. Best case would be for some shear to inhibit further strengthening, along with Dean's inflow being interupted if brushing close to mountainous regions of Haiti or E. Cuba. Of course if this cut-off low is ejected southwestward ahead of Dean, then i've got $10.00 on Dean maxing out as a Cat. 5 in the W. Carib. ( but I do not see that happening ).

Those of you who read the Cyclone Discussion at 11:00pm this evening will notice that the data from the research flight was basically not recieved ( late, lost, or what? ). This is a shame, as the raw data which each forecast model is based upon, will likely be mostly unchanged - thus the mostly unchanged cluster of forecasts for days 3-5. I was eagerly awaiting the 0Z GFS, but do not much reason to anticipate much variation from earlier runs today. As the NOAA plane continues to investigate upper air either tonight or tomm., I am actually expecting newer model runs ( either 12Z or later tomm. ) to start to introduce some more northward wrinkles to the long range ( and maybe even 24 hr - 48 hr. ) forecast tracks.

Regarding an earlier post regarding Dean possibly "imploding" due to forward speed, I'd equate those odds with the liklihood of a low latitude tropical cyclone producing lots of lightning and golf ball sized hail. Picture an Olimpic runner who is very fast. He does not eventually fall over because he is running so fast. Now picture that same Olimpic runner not looking ( just like in the movies ) and suddenly running "head high" into a tree limb. Now, thats my definition of "shear misfortune". For Dean, if an upper high remains over it, and without those pesky westerlies, than Dean can run as fast as it wants to.

( sorry about the long post )


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:48 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

That New England "Hurricane" of 1938 was also likely very much extratropical as it was doing so, just like Wilma as it accelerated to 50+ mph in 2005. Different storm maintenance mechanisms at play there so they aren't directly comparable.

However, Shawn, moving at 25mph isn't really hurting Dean right now and probably won't; it's other factors that tend to combine with the fast forward speed to put a squash on weak disturbances and keep them from closing off low level circulations. Dean doesn't fall into that category at all right now; it's not some mid-level circulation extraordinare without anything at the surface. I don't think that's a concern right now.

Re: debate over where you want the storm to make landfall -- that's sorta getting borderline on decorum here on the forums. For interests in the US, yes, a Mexico landfall would be better; but remember, there are people in the other nations that would be dealing with it then as well. Also remember that there are people from other nations who do read this and other forums, and they aren't going to take too kindly to suggestions that it should hit them. Hoping that you don't want a storm to hit you is fine, as obviously very very few people ever do, but try to refrain from saying that it should hit somewhere else in particular.

All that said...onto Dean. The big player is going to be the upper low near Florida and how it evolves as it moves west over the next few days. How much interaction does Dean have with it, if any? The speeds of both features will determine that answer. Tied to that is the question of the ridge over the southeast US -- how strong will it build in, leading to how fast will it steer both the upper low and Dean? Will there be a weakness on its western side to help lift Dean more to the north as it enters the Gulf? Those east of the Mississippi River don't need to worry about this one; the same can probably be said about Louisiana too. Texas is still iffy, even though I think that Dean's ultimate track will probably clip the southern end of the state at most. That said, we've got 5-6 days to watch it and there will be plenty of time to make preparations and adjustments if need be.


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:08 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

it looks based on radar, before the data goes away, that Dean is going to go right between the islands of Martinique and St. Lucia. It may pass the very close to Martinique, atleast the southern tip...... in about 4-5 hrs... Atleast its hitting in the morning, and maybe by the afternoon things could clear up and allow for the recovery clean-up to began! I see that one island has a population of around 89,000 and other of about 13,000.

**nice eyewall showing up on the radar, earlier**


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:00 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

There's a blowup of deep convection on the latest IR/AVN image, right after Dean bridged the gap. It looks as if Dean took a look at all of the hot water and seemingly ideal conditions ahead and said "This is what I've been looking for!"

Concerning the long-term track - the models still point to a central Texas landfall, at least the ones I've seen at WU and Skeetobite. Having said that, I really do not think it's approapriate to tell anyone in the Gulf that they can let their guard down this far out. Certainly it appears that Texas is under the gun, but there is a long time and a lot of uncertainty in the future track. It all depends upon the low, and what happens with it. I'm thinking landfall could be as far north as where Erin came ashore. Given Dean's large size, that positionng would produce effects further to the east, I think, so that Louisiana would get some strong winds, even if they didn't get the brunt of Dean's wraith. Plus... we all have seen how much the forecast can change over 5 days.


SeaMule
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:40 AM
long range forecasts

A great post earlier about the fact that the NHC was tending left in their forecast tracking on some storms. They do a masterful job, both in their forecasting, and discussions. Enjoyed the candidness on the 5 am this morning.

Now that Dean-O is entering warmer SST's...we'll all be puckering up a bit, ya think?

a sensing that Dean will track more northerly than plotted keeps naggin away...and reading one of the met's posts about Dean possibly reaching cat 5 status...whew.

next 5 days will be interesting. I appreciate the insight on this board. I'm am nothing but a novice...know surface info..certainly don't have a clue about much of the dynamics on steering currents...so each year I learn more. What a fascinating field.

Having a feeling about New Orleans again. or points east....


neospaceblue
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:52 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Quote:

000
DEAN IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 23 MPH...37 KM/HR...AND THIS
GENERAL MOTION IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE WITH SOME DECREASE IN FORWARD
SPEED DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS. THIS MOTION SHOULD TAKE THE
CENTER OF DEAN AWAY FROM THE LESSER ANTILLES LATER TODAY.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 100 MPH...160 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER
GUSTS. DEAN IS A CATEGORY TWO HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON
SCALE. STRONGER WINDS...ESPECIALLY IN GUSTS...ARE LIKELY
OVER ELEVATED TERRAIN NEAR THE PATH OF THE CENTER. SOME
STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS.

HURRICANE FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 25 MILES...35 KM...FROM
THE CENTER...AND TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 140
MILES...220 KM. FORT-DE-FRANCE ON MARTINIQUE RECENTLY REPORTED A
WIND GUST OF 87 MPH...143 KM/HR...WHILE DOMINICA REPORTED A WIND
GUST OF 64 MPH...104 KM/HR.

A RECONNAISSANCE PLANE JUST MEASURED A MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE OF
970 MB...28.64 INCHES.

STORM SURGE FLOODING OF 2 TO 4 FEET ABOVE NORMAL TIDE LEVELS...
ACCOMPANIED BY LARGE AND DANGEROUS BATTERING WAVES...IS POSSIBLE
NEAR THE CENTER OF DEAN.

STORM TOTAL RAINFALL OF 2 TO 5 INCHES...WITH ISOLATED MAXIMUM
AMOUNTS OF 10 INCHES IN MOUNTAINOUS AREAS...ARE POSSIBLE IN
ASSOCIATION WITH DEAN IN THE LESSER ANTILLES. ACROSS PUERTO
RICO...STORM TOTAL AMOUNTS OF 1 TO 2 INCHES CAN BE EXPECTED...WITH
MAXIMUM AMOUNTS OF UP TO 5 INCHES. THESE RAINS COULD CAUSE
LIFE-THREATENING FLASH FLOODS AND MUDSLIDES.

REPEATING THE 800 AM AST POSITION...14.4 N...61.7 W. MOVEMENT
TOWARD...WEST NEAR 23 MPH. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...100 MPH.
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...970 MB.

THE NEXT ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER AT
1100 AM AST.

$$
FORECASTER AVILA/MAINELLI





This should be up to 110 mph by 11 AM.

Clipped long advisory text


neospaceblue
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:54 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Quote:

The great New England Hurricane of 1938 was moving close to 60mph,And it held togeather just fine.So I doubt going less than 30mph would kill a storm.




And Charley reached 150 mph and was moving at over 20 mph and Wilma had reached 125 mph after leaving Florida while moving around the same speed, so we could see Dean reach Cat 5.


Steve H1
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:58 AM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Interestingly the 6z GFDL has Dean nipping the western tip of Cuba and approaching the TX/LA border as a Cat 5. One model run though. Is the GFDL run with the G-IV data?

Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 12:03 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Quote:


And Charley reached 150 mph and was moving at over 20 mph and Wilma had reached 125 mph after leaving Florida while moving around the same speed, so we could see Dean reach Cat 5.




Given current trends and conditons, I'd say it's probably a good bewt that Dean will reach Cat 5 at some point on its trek across the Caribbean. I say that based upon recent history (the 2005 season), and the fact that the NHC even hints at the possibility in the last several discussions, and the official forecast calls for a maximum wind of 145 mph. It's nearly impossible to predict intensity changes in Cat 4/5 hurricanes due to eyewall replacement cycles, so it's unlikely the NHC would actually forecast Dean to reach Cat 5, I believe.

With the pressure back down to 970 and the satellite presentation improving by the hour again, I suspect Dean will be a Cat 3 at 11am, or at least very close to it, but I didn't expect the intensification to level off overnight.

I just looked at the latest vortex message. Closed eyewall now - it was open to the west yesterday. That's another indication that Dean is well on the way to a Cat 3... and beyond.


charlottefl
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 12:21 PM
Dean And Dry Air

I think Dean has finally been able to start mixing out the dry air to it's north and northwest.
That's a lot of what I believe was preventing it from rapidly intensifying yesterday. Now
there's not a lot in it's way to keep it from intensifying unless it ventures closer to the islands (DR, Hati, Cuba)
It's also good to see the NHC mention the ULL in the Bahamas. I understand they normally
use caution before mentioning any changes until they see persistence.


Beach
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 12:27 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Hey Clark,

I was looking at some Bouy info:
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=LKWF1
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=SPGF1
Lake Worth has had winds from the W for the last few hours, and Station SPGF1 has been reporting winds from the E for the last couple of hours.
Since the ULL is in that general area, do you think that the surface winds could enhance the upper level feature?


Kraig
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 01:39 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

"Lake Worth has had winds from the W for the last few hours"

This is a pretty typical summer situation to have an off-shore flow overnight and in the early morning. The sea-breeze will pick up very quickly this morning at the Lake Worth station and you will see winds flip quickly from west to east.


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:06 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Latest recon shows an open eyewall again, but pressure down to 965 mb and maximum flight level winds of 100 kts, which would correspond to 90 kts ( ~ 105 mph) at the surface.

Dean appears very likely to evolve into a major hurricane. As OUShawn alluded to, it is unusual for strong hurricanes to be moving so quickly, but in this case it is simply due to unusually strong steering currents. Most fast-moving tropical systems that struggle do so because there is a lot of shear in the environment, but that isn't really the case here (though the rapid movement has helped to exacerbate some slight westerly shear so far).

The fast movement also comes into play down the line... if it does end up hitting the Yucatan, it will spend less time over land than most storms would in that scenario, leading to less weakening and a stronger hurricane to worry about downstream when it enters the Gulf (compared to what you would normally have with a Yucatan landfall scenario).


Ed in Va
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:15 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

The high forward speed will also make the landfalling impact that much more intense. See the discussion in the third paragraph of this article on the '38 Long Island Express:

http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/38hurricane/weather_history_38.html


Beaumont, TX
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:19 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Where can I see that model run? I think Texas is keeping an eye on Dean just "in case". Erin brought flooding to parts of Houston
and the hill country.


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:25 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Here is a link to the 06Z GFDL at 126 hrs:

http://bricker.met.psu.edu/~arnottj/cgi-...&hour=126hr

The GFDL is usually one of the best models, but this solution is an outlier compared to pretty much all of the other models.


dem05
(User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:26 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I was curious to knowif anyone may have a link, which shows the locations of where the G-IV jet conducted their air samples yesterday. This is one link that I don't have/can't seem to find. I'd be curious to see if they only sampled the High Pressure ridge and environment around Dean, or if they had an opportunity to sample some of the Upper Level Low near the Bahamas as well.

Just a couple field notes this morning of some of the weather I will be watching today (that is a little further from Dean and may/may not have any impact in the end):
-The Bahahmas Upper level low is moving westward a bit faster than it was yesterday, will be interesting to see if that continues throughout the day.
- On the NW Atlantic Water Vapor images, I referenced that the Jet stream appeared to be more Zonal yesterday. As of today, it looks like the combination of the Bahamas ULL and another ULL over Canada and to the north of the Great Lakes have worked together to build a digging trough. This trough is not spreading southward into the Tennessee Area. May or may not have any implications on the strength of the ridge...but interesting to watch today. Link: http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/nwatl/loop-wv.html


madmumbler
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:35 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

So did the Gulfstream get data, not get data, has the data been released yet, exactly what's going on with the data? If the Gulfstream data isn't being used, how does that impact the models, should we expect the unexpected?

MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:39 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Some the gulfstream data has made it in, but they will be flying out there for probably another 48 hours or so, intermixing bits and pieces. Yes I think it has had some affect already.

CDMOrlando
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:47 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

SENIOR DUTY METEOROLOGIST NWS ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE
NWS NCEP CENTRAL OPERATIONS CAMP SPRINGS MD


THE 12Z NCEP MODEL PRODUCTION CYCLE CONTINUES ON TIME. THE
NAM IS COMPLETE AND GFS BEGAN AS SCHEDULE.

12Z GFS RAOB RECAP...
YUX/71081 - SHORT TO 711 MB
MYNN/78073 - 10142 GND EQUIPMENT FAILURE
FSI/72355 - CORRECTED 500MB HEIGHT FROM 930M TO 5930M AND 877
TEMP FROM -55.7 TO 25.7
YAH/71823 - TTBB NOT IN FOR NAM...IN FOR GFS
PASY/70414 - NOT IN FOR NAM...IN FOR GFS

ONE FLIGHT LEVEL REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE NOAA G-IV.

I have not been able to find any information on the location of the G-IV path for this report... but we do know that the 12Z runs will reflect the information



dem05
(User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:48 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

To answer your question and eliminate any confusion that may occur on the forum/clarify my last post, the G-IV data. In the 5 PM NHC Discussion, they referenced that the data was entered into the 06Z model runs and that the data showed that the high pressure ridge was relatively weaker than expected. So we know that the G-IV had an opportunity to sample the ridge. Unfortunately, there is a heck of a lot of real estate out there, and I am not sure that the G-IV was able to sample the Upper Level Low over the Bahamas as well. That's why I was wondering if there were any good links that showed their mission. My specualtion is that they did not have an opportunity to sample the air around the Bahama's, but I'd rather not speculate...'cuase my thinking on that may be incorrect.

Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Aug 17 2007 02:53 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Seems FSU model runs is a bit flaky still, with the site still having issues it seems. Never loaded the 06Z GFS run. It is over at PSU though, so here's the link if anyone wants to look:

http://met.psu.edu/tropical/tcgengifs/

Generally PSU has less models and hasn't updated their site in a long time, but at least it has the GFS run.

Clark: Any idea why FSU's model run site keeps going down almost every morning?


Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:01 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Interesting read the 11am NHC report.

Especially important was the final sentence: "IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT GUIDANCE FOR DAY 4 AND 5 IS MORE UNCERTAIN TODAY THAN YESTERDAY."

Looks like they are picking up on the model and ridge uncertainties that are creeping in.


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:08 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I don't like the sound of that. Makes it even more likely that I could certainly be wrong in my thinking and we here in Texas could be facing a very dangerous storm next week. I was thinking there was no way that the Houston/Galveston area would have to worry about Dean but now the chances are starting to become a little too real for my taste.

Shawn


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:11 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Yes the ULL and ridge situation is playing havoc with the models. This is likely going to make the long range models fairly useless for the next few days (Even moreso than usual). This is why I think the entire gulf needs to watch this system. And I don't just mean the Western Gulf of Mexico, either. To quote Frank P from this site, "Stress levels among the coast will be extremely high this weekend.." Model flip flops won't help.

Being calm and not overreacting is the better course, watching what the system does. Note, that just because it is forecast to be a very strong hurricane in the Gulf does not mean it will be so at landfall, many times some unforseen weakness in the system happens before landfall too. Being aware is fine, but don't stress out over these things.




DaViking
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:16 PM
She's opening her eye's

Deans eye is starting to become visible on satellite. Could have 115+ on next advisory

Visible loop


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:18 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I was looking on weatherunderground earlier and they have a graphic showing cat. 1 and 2 hurricanes in Aug. dating back since 1886 or something that have been within 300 miles of the track that Dean is on and NONE of them have ever made landfall on the upper Texas coast. In fact, only ONE had even made landfall in Texas period and that was far south Texas. History does serve well as far as keeping Dean away from us here in the Houston area...THANK GOD!

Shawn


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:29 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Mike I completely agree... Dean is quickly catdhing the ULL over the Bahamas. This storm is a "wait and see" much more than usual.

Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:30 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Looks to me like there are 3 impacting Texas historically:

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/at200704_climo.html?MR=1


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 03:40 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I see that now but that is not the same graphic they had up yesterday. The one they had yesterday was totally different...I swear...lol. Well, that makes me even more concerned now. I wish these models would somehow show Dean totally falling apart but I guess that just seems to be wishful thinking on my part. Unfortunately, it looks like we are in for a very rough ride with this one. I hope EVERYONE pays attention and takes the precautions needed...don't wait until it's too late. I agree...this one could still go just about anywhere at this point.

Shawn


anomaly18
(Registered User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 04:19 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Being here on the upper Texas coast, I can say that it will be an intriguing weekend. The steering currents aren't leading me to believe there will be any short term change to the models.

This is my first post. I have been reading posts for the past few years on flhurricane. I appreciate the level of expertise on this board. Thanks.


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 04:29 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Unfortunately, Dean is looking better (or worse...depending on how you look at it) on satellite. The eye is certainly visible and the outflow is pretty awesome.

Shawn


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 04:42 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Bunch of questions to get to...

1) FSU model data -- it mostly looks like it's a combination of a lot of stuff happening on our computers plus millions from the web hitting it, causing the slowdown. The PSU site isn't as well known and is on a dedicated web machine that is better able to handle the workload. That said, I still highly recommend our site.

2) Beach -- regarding the upper and lower level winds -- no, those upper level features draw their energy from completely different processes, all mostly confined to the upper levels of the atmosphere. Kraig had a good response regarding the daily variation of the surface winds in those areas.

3) Regarding location of the G-IV dropsondes -- I don't have a map available, but they were all in the general vicinity of the storm, particularly just to the north and west. They did not sample the upper low over the Bahamas; it's too far from the storm. Accordingly, most of the G-IV's impacts are found within the first couple of days of the model forecasts.

And a tad bit of analysis...

Latest recon suggests flight level winds are up to about 115kt with surface winds just a tick under 100kt/115mph. They've also reported concentric eyewalls, potentially suggesting that the storm is peaking for the time being. I wouldn't be surprised to see it upgraded to a major hurricane at the next advisory. I can't remember the last time I saw a 130kt projection from the NHC at the 3-4 day time frame; they are usually loathe to go to near cat. 5 intensity that far out. Still, it's a quite reasonable forecast I'm afraid. A potential disaster scenario is being spit out by some of the models, having Dean mostly avoid all of the major landmasses in the Caribbean and sliding through the Yucatan channel on a course for Texas. That's more of the outlier course right now, as a track over the northern Yucatan is more likely, but one we'll closely watch for the next few days.


NewWatcher
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 04:45 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Clark, If I may.... What is the outcome if Dean catches up with the ULL over the Bahamas... that ULL started to move and then now seems stuck again?

MissouriHurricane2008
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 04:46 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Windward Islands

Ive been looking at the different computer models and for some reason i agree with those that will take the storm on a more northly track. If i was texas and louisana i would watch this storm more closely. dean looks like he means business. i am still not sure on alot of the technical terms that some of you use but i am very interested in learning them. so if anyone has a link that could help me understand some of the more technical talk that would be much appriecated. just drop me a message. thanks!

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 04:50 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Hi Pam,

If Dean gets close to the upper low, a few things could happen. The upper low could start to evacuate some of Dean's outflow, a scenario that would help intensify the storm. This is more likely if the storm remains some distance away from the upper level feature. If it draws closer, it could impart a bit of wind shear on top of Dean, helping keep its intensity in check. It could also impart a bit more of a northward movement to Dean, something the computer models are showing for down the line -- but in the Gulf.


weatherguy08
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:00 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Seems that a lot of attention is being made towards climatology and historical tracks. While there are some storm tracks that are historically similar to Dean, we need to remember, and I may be stating the obvious, that historical storms have no affect on which way the storm will go, just speculation.

Anyway, I am sitting here in Louisiana watching this storm, somewhat anxious/nervous. But what is interesting me is how far to the east the GFDL brings Dean, and as a category four or five. If this comes true or something similar to it, Galveston, Houston, Beaumont, and southwestern Louisiana are going to be in for quite a rough ride. My prediction is basically anywhere from the Mississippi-Alabama border (though this is likely to far east) and westwards.


Texas Cane Tracker
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:09 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles



If the ULL is able to weaken the central U.S. ridge enought to give Dean more of a NW track, what would the first signs of this be (other than the course of Dean itself)?

Latest satellite presentation looks very impressive, with a clearly defined eye. Outflow looks good as well, and alot of moisture being sucked into the storm from the south.

Here in Houston, we are definitely keeping a close eye on Dean. Many thanks to all of those on this site who provide us with great information and frequent updates.


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:11 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Wow... very nice eye showing up now on sats.... been some time since we have seen this in the atlantic. now we can watch for eyewall replacements and any hot towers that form... which would indicate rapid growing and strengthening.... I think that Jamica may be in trouble down the road... I don't know if the island can escape a direct hit, like they have with other systems... its going to be very close... and i guess i better fill up with gas now... i bet next week we hear stories about the gas prices going to rise....

some of the models keeps showing that tropical wave in the atlantic trying to sneak up the north side of the islands in the coming days then up the east coast... very weak... and it seems that in the long term, the atlantic ridge may weaken some?


scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:15 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

First 60 hrs or so the models are converging on a Jamaica or just north of Jamaica. Alot has been said of the interaction with Hisapiola and even Cuba down the road. Also the speed of the upper low moving across the gulf. Clark pretty much said what could happen. Most us agree for the first 48-60 hrs the path with the models. After that...we are unsure exactly if there will be a WNW component still or if the upper low gets drawn fast enough westerward for a bend more W till it nears the Yucitan. 1 thing I been noticing is the upper ridge drifted W towards eastern Tx last night into today. That might want to not have a pull on the upper low so quick to the west. Right now uncertainties.

EMSDoc1
(Registered User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:22 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I seem to recall over the last 3 seasons of following storms with y'all that someone had said that none of the spaghetti models account for the fact that a Cat 4/5 storm will tend to drift more north and east because they are powerful enough to generate their own steering winds. This would mean that every subsequent track on a big, powerful storm would be further northeast. Did I imagine this? Perhaps I need a "hurricane meteorology for dummies" course!

scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:28 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Stronger systems will create more heat into a ridge to its North..BUT if there is a strong trough (cold front) coming in....it wont matter how strong the hurricane is. It will be pulled N then NE. Alot of the talk on Cat 4-5s doing what they want is novice speculation. All they do is enhance the ridge to its N but against a typical front...it will be drawn up and the ridge slides E.

MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:43 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

The newest GFDL run takes Dean in barely west of New Orleans, not a pretty trend at all. I think the models are reacting to the new input and the Upper Level Low a bit too much, and will remain vulnerable.

Dean may do something unexpected, so nobody should be letting their guard down yet.


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:50 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Around 30 minutes ago, recon recorded flight-level winds of 116 knots and 104 knots at the surface with the SFMR. That should lead to another bump in the intensity on the next advisory, probably to 100 or 105 knots (cat 3).

While the 12Z GFS seemed to come in a little further south, the 12Z GFDL has made another shift to the north and east. Here are the lat/lon coords from the 12Z GFDL:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/productview.php?pil=WBCCHGQLM

While Dean will likely be a major threat anywhere it hits, that track would be a particularly bad one. The GFDL is still an outlier, but it is adding some drama to the track forecast.


Beach
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 05:54 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Yeah,

Looking at the Navy site, they had Dean crossing 65W before it got to 15N
Looking at the Visible:
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t1/loop-vis.html
It sure looks like it is going to pass 15N before 64W !
I'm thinking the next run at 5pm will bring Dean OVER Jamaica.


Texas Cane Tracker
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:04 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Can someone please give me a link to a site where the track/intensity models are updated frequently?

Thanks.


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:04 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

wow... watching AF recon... i like reading the SFMR - Peak (10s Avg.) Sfc. Wind on the HDOB obs from 48-52... I could see that it had stronger winds on the last past through there... there heading almost due north now... I hope someone took some pics of the eye in the plane... be some nice shots to see.

scottsvb
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:08 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Right now from the 12z runs..most have gone more NE by about 100 miles on average for the first 60hrs..after that..models spread on a bend back to the west near Jamaica or just north of there to a brush with Cuba and crossing the western part. I wouldnt get worried if I was in the Keys or the central or eastern gulf yet unless the next couple model runs continue a more northward track. Again as I always say...models change from run to run and anything more then 3 days out decreases the accuracy. With Dean anything more then 48hrs cause by then how will the upper low situate.

WeatherNut
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:11 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

this eyewall replacement cycle will be very interesting. Concentric eyewalls have already been reported so it must be about to commence. When you get a really large eye after one of those it seems the pressure really starts to drop like a rock (like Katrina, and more recently Flossie in the Pacific)

craigm
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:20 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I was just going to post the same observation about Deam crossing 15N sooner than the OFCL track. Models will have to keep initializing further north.
Another thing I have been noticing, I hope this doesn't sound too unscientific, is that Hurricanes that I have watched in the past traveling around the periphery of a strong ridge, like this one, show more signs of impingment in the outflow -almost giving a flat top appearance to the storm. Where Dean appears to be exhausting outflow very symetrically.
Any Thoughts?


Beach
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:24 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

WELL SAID !
I'm just a guy who watches whirls on a Sat. feed, and I thought the same thing. I haven't really seen Dean hit the "roof" so to speak. I have seen other storms flatten out on top when it does barrel into a ridge.


WeatherNut
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:34 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I've also noticed a more northward component to the forward motion. Its been consistent for a couple of hours so its hard to look at it as 'wobble'. We will see if the next forecast point by the NHC verifies.

MissouriHurricane2008
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:49 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

new GFDL model shows dean right to the west of new orleans

OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 06:51 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

It's so weird to see these models so far apart right now. They are all over the place. I don't think you can take any of them seriously right now...at least once you get past day 3.

Shawn


madmumbler
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:01 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Charley was projected to make landfall in Tampa until he "wobbled" and made landfall in Punta Gorda.

The bottom line is, EVEN when it's close to shore, it can still be unexpected exactly where a storm makes landfall. So everyone who is along the Gulf coast should be WATCHING this storm. It doesn't mean panic or board up. It means double-check all your provisions, make sure you can get your shutters/boards up, revisit your evacuation plan, make a hotel reservation inland, whatever you do. Make sure it's ready to go. And start up the generator and make sure it runs and you can start it. Your mechanic will NOT be able to get it running for you 24 hours before landfall!!!

Also, as someone else noted, go fill up your cars and don't let them get below half full. NOT saying to go fill up twenty gas cans. I'm saying stay smart and stay safe.


weather999
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:12 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Is it just me, or is 961 mb a bit high for a mid cat 3? Perhaps I've just been softened down a bit in the past few years with extremely low pressure storms such as Wilma, Katrina, and Rita..

Im gonna say that Dean will reach borderline cat 5/perhaps 160 mph, if the track of the storm shifts a bit south, causing the centre to miss Jamaica.

Also, the GFDL model has Dean reaching 148kt/140kt intensity before predicted landfall west of New Orleans, let us hope that this will not be the case.

And a question: Do storms that have smaller hurricane-force wind areas tend to be stronger?


twizted sizter
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:13 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

That's a point the NHC always tries to make...the models can be seriously off after 3 days. Heck they've flipped all over the place with Dean from run to run...about the only thing the models seem certain on is Jamacia is in the crosshairs. ..because of questions in the ridge & the movement & effects of the ULL, everything after that is a crapshoot.
Because of the obvious vuneralabilty of La..both before & most importantly after Katrina...the latest GFDL is worrisome. Not to mention the effects of a landfalling major in this spot to the rest of the country.
Someone asked for links to models. On the main page are links to various model sites although I know earlier the fsu site was experiencing loading problems.
As an aside Dean is looking quite impressive & has proven to be an interesting & even nail biting storm to track.


LisaC
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:25 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Quote:

That's a point the NHC always tries to make...the models can be seriously off after 3 days. Heck they've flipped all over the place with Dean from run to run...about the only thing the models seem certain on is Jamacia is in the crosshairs. ..because of questions in the ridge & the movement & effects of the ULL, everything after that is a crapshoot.
Because of the obvious vuneralabilty of La..both before & most importantly after Katrina...the latest GFDL is worrisome. Not to mention the effects of a landfalling major in this spot to the rest of the country.
Someone asked for links to models. On the main page are links to various model sites although I know earlier the fsu site was experiencing loading problems.
As an aside Dean is looking quite impressive & has proven to be an interesting & even nail biting storm to track.




Glad you made that point, because i often think whether they should get rid of the 5 day cone, as it seems to be pretty useless. I wonder if there is a any study as of the effectiveness of the five day cone compared to getting people ready and focused on the storm. As for Dean, just looked at the sat image, very impressive. I have close friends that live in Jamaica, I am getting nervous. Considering how the GFDL is acting, would not be surprised to see a good shift in the 5 or maybe 11 pm track or at least the 5 day cone.


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:28 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I wouldn't expect to see too much of a shift since the GFDL is the outliner in the group of models. So far it is the only model that has shifted that far to the right so wouldn't expect much right now.

Shawn


Texas Cane Tracker
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:30 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

If the center of Dean does indeed go over Jamacia, how disruptive will this be to the storm? I am not familiar with the terrain there. It would seem that if Dean remains a major hurricane if/when it hits Jamacia that the weakening would not be substantial since it would be back over water in a short period of time.

Thanks.


LisaC
(Weather Watcher)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:32 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Quote:

If the center of Dean does indeed go over Jamacia, how disruptive will this be to the storm? I am not familiar with the terrain there. It would seem that if Dean remains a major hurricane if/when it hits Jamacia that the weakening would not be substantial since it would be back over water in a short period of time.

Thanks.




Jamaica is actually very hilly, famous for the Blue Mountains and its Blue Mountain coffee (yummmy)
I think right over Jamaica could have some effect, but not the kind you will see as Cuba and Hispanola. For the past couple of years Jamaica has dodged direct hits with storms going right above or right below it. Maybe their time has run out?


charlottefl
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:34 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Storm Winds Pressure
Category 3 111-130 964-945


Now keep in mind these are only guidlines as far as pressure is concerned. If the sea surface pressures are lower during a certian year or time period the winds can be higher with higher pressures. Charley is a perfect example. The pressures in Charley's core did not correlate perfectly with wind speed. So it is possible for a storm to be one category with the pressure range of another.


FlaRebel
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:35 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

He does appear that he will miss his next forecasted spot to the north. It will be an interesting next 48 hours for sure.

Texas Cane Tracker
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:47 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

I know the NWS used to have a "Strike Probability Chart" for hurricanes. It would show numerical values expressed as probabilities for a hurricane passing within "x" nautical miles of a particular area. I do not see that on their site any more. Does anyone have any insight as to where I can find this information?

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:49 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

Quote:

Can someone please give me a link to a site where the track/intensity models are updated frequently?

Thanks.




Front page.. Skeetobite's Maps

http://www.skeetobiteweather.com/picservice.asp?t=m&m=04

Models ONLY UPDATE every 6 hours... Just as Official NHC Advisories do.


Steve H1
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:54 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Has anyone found a link to the 12Z ECMWF?? I keep refreshing but its still coming up 0z 17 Aug

Lee-Delray
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 07:54 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

In recent years there has been a lot of debate going on about changing the 5 day cone, but more so removing the line in the middle. Personally, I prefer the 5 day cone and the line. With literally hundreds of web sites showing every model under the sun in various combinations the only one that really ever makes sense is the NHC cone; there has to be one standard. If not everyone who has access to a model would be going nuts.

Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:00 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

To all our new members:

We have all the major links under "Storm Links" to the left, though that is a huge list if you don't know what you are looking for.

I also started a thread in Hurricane Ask/Tell of the sites I regularly use. Perhaps we can compile a list of "most used sites" there.

--RC


Steve H1
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:03 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Some interesting Info for the current storm and other observations from the HPC.


...TROPICS...
HURRICANE DEAN AIMS AT JAMAICA/YUCATAN AND NERN MEXICO/SRN TX. SEE
TPC/NHC ADVISORIES/WARNINGS. UPSTREAM CONDS REMAIN FAVORABLE OVER
WRN 3/4 OF THE TROPICAL ATLC/CARRIBEAN/GLFMEX AND TROP EPAC FOR
DEVELOPMENT OR SUSTAINING TROP SYSTEMS AS INDICATED BY CHI
VERTICAL VELOCITY POTENTIAL CHARTS OF GFS/ECMWF AND GFS/ECMWF OP
AND ENSEMBLE 200-850 WIND SHEAR FORECASTS. RECENT OUTSTANDING LONG
TERM FORECAST OF DEAN BY GFS IS A HEADS UP TO PAY ATTENTION TO ANY
ADDITIONAL LONG TERM FORECASTS BY THIS MODEL ESP WITH CAPE VERDE
TYPE SYSTEMS. AT LEAST TWO WAVES ARE NOTED BY GFS ON RECENT RUNS
BUT WITH ONLY LIMITED DEVELOPMENT. FIRST COMES INTO THE BAHAMAS
LATE NEXT WEEK WHILE THE SECOND COMES INTO THE WINDWARDS. EVER
AGRESSIVE CANADIAN DEPICTION OF A STRONGER SOLUTION THAN A
TROPICAL WAVE IS CERTAINLY POSSIBLE GIVEN FAVORABLE ENVIRONMENTAL
CONDS INDICATED BY OTHER MODELS ESP WITH THE BAHAMAS SYSTEM LATE
NEXT WEEK. SEE TPC DISCUSSIONS OVER THE NEXT WEEK.


MissouriHurricane2008
(Verified CFHC User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:19 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

i like using... http://www.stormpulse.com/ just another site

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:22 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

I added some thoughts on Dean to a new blog post, since it's more of something not entirely relevant quite yet but more significant for down the road. Basically, it details the battle I and other meteorologists will be watching over the next day or so between the storm and the various upper level features out ahead of it. Once we get some better answers to how that will evolve, probably tomorrow, the Gulf track forecast should become clearer.

Quick edit: got some comments that my blog post may not have been as clear as it could have been, for which I apologize. I've edited it to hopefully make it a bit clearer.


Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:38 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

12Z GFDL model is not good to look at. It takes the system across the tip of Haiti as a category 3-4, then strengthens it to category 5 as it passes between Cuba and Jamaica and keeps it that strong until it crosses Cuba. Then restrenthens it to category 5 heading into the Louisiana coast.

Let us hope that this model is wrong.

The HWRF also passes the storm across the tip of Haiti and then between Jamaica and Cuba. Then it swings it more southward across the tip of the Yucatan. It maintains about 1 category less at all times than the GFDL. The HWRF ends before it impacts the Texas coast, but the track is clear that it is heading to Texas.


anomaly18
(Registered User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:42 PM
Re: Hurricane Dean Approaches Lesser Antilles

nice site/graphics. thanks for posting.

Quote:

i like using... http://www.stormpulse.com/ just another site




OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:44 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

The 5:00 NHC track looks like it's actually further south than before.

Shawn


Beach
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:50 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

I don't think so.
The "eye" path is North of the middle of Jam.


charlottefl
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:50 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

The NHC makes track adjustments left and right as the storm continues it's forward motion.
A lot of these are based on what the storm is doing now, motion wise, and what it will do in
the long term. The 5pm cone is slightly further north upto the SE Gulf and then looks to be
less curvature to the WNW late in the forcast period. Expect that to change slightly every
advisory.


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 08:53 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

No, I'm talking about the ending result. It looks like they have it hitting further south (Mexico) than before. They did say they can't count out the GFDL even though it's the outliner because it has always done so well with these storms. Stay tuned!!

Shawn


Lee-Delray
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 09:03 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Read the discussion, all they did was update the existing track and position; they did not alter it. If they alter it, it is specically mentioned. The NHC does an excellent job explaining their position, there really is no need to attempt to read between the lines (no pun intended).


THE OFFICIAL TRACK FORECAST IS AN UPDATE OF THE PREVIOUS
ONE AND FOLLOWS THE MODEL CONSENSUS.


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 09:18 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

The latest forecast track does look like it is slightly further south at the end of the period than the last one, but not in any significant way. The forecast will remain roughly the same until there is a change in the model consensus or a stronger signal that the storm is going to deviate from the track.

It is important to keep in mind that the steering regime will not be consistent over the next several days, so short-term changes in motion may not end up reflected in the long term. For example, Dean could drift a little further north than expected in the short term (as it already has a little today), but if the ridge builds in to the north, it could end up taking a more westerly track in the longer term. Or the opposite could occur. I will be surprised if the eventual track is as much of a straight line as the forecast indicates, though overall it could still end up being a good forecast.


OUSHAWN
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 09:37 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Man, the last visible is showing a well defined eye...very well rounded and looks to be pretty good size.

Shawn


Kevin
(Weather Master)
Fri Aug 17 2007 09:46 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Watching the beginning of the 18z GFS operational run...seems to be struggling with the short-term intensity of Dean. Shows lowest central pressure of 1002 mb at 36 hours.

Dean is, and should be, a wee bit lower than that pressure-wise.


madmumbler
(Storm Tracker)
Fri Aug 17 2007 09:52 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Quote:

The latest forecast track does look like it is slightly further south at the end of the period than the last one, but not in any significant way. The forecast will remain roughly the same until there is a change in the model consensus or a stronger signal that the storm is going to deviate from the track.

It is important to keep in mind that the steering regime will not be consistent over the next several days, so short-term changes in motion may not end up reflected in the long term.




I agree with you. I went back to the NHC's graphics archives and looked at their Ivan track. It had it bouncing around all over the place for several days, from west of FL to coming in at Punta Gorda and everywhere in between. I had forgotten that.

Everyone needs to keep in mind-- no one should get hung up on the track right now. It can vary widely from day to day. What it shows now might or might not be what it looks like next week.

Again, everyone in the Gulf should be watching this storm to see what it does. But worry or panic from anyone or wishcasting it will/won't go somewhere is kind of pointless at this time. There is no good that can come from fixating on a US landfall at this point beyond scaring the pudding out of newbies and unregistereds who are looking to this forum for more information.

Follow the NHC site, follow this site, but keep in mind that at this point, NO place along the Gulf coast is "safe" until the storm gets closer to land.


Beach
(Weather Guru)
Fri Aug 17 2007 10:10 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Here is the link to the Bouy that the eye of Dean should pass over @ 15.1N 67.5W So what it's about two hundred ,miles away, traveling at 21mph. Roughly ten hours right?
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=42059
The info should be interesting.

Conditions at 42059 as of
2150 GMT on 08/17/2007:

Wind Direction (WDIR): NE ( 50 deg true )
Wind Speed (WSPD): 21.4 kts
Wind Gust (GST): 27.2 kts
Wave Height (WVHT): 8.5 ft
Dominant Wave Period (DPD): 8 sec
Average Period (APD): 5.5 sec
Atmospheric Pressure (PRES): 29.78 in
Pressure Tendency (PTDY): -0.04 in ( Falling )
Air Temperature (ATMP): 82.2 °F
Water Temperature (WTMP): 84.0 °F


Bloodstar
(Moderator)
Fri Aug 17 2007 10:12 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Chewing on things over here. Using Mark I eyeball, The storm is continuing to push ever so slightly north of the projected NHC path. As has been pointed out earlier, there is a slight bias in the later forecast time frames to the left (keeping the storm further left than projected). Couple that with storms rarely keeping such a straight as an arrow path (call it climatology and biases), and it's very easy to see why the NHC could be suspicious of the forecast paths on days 4 and 5. Toss in the model uncertainty (and if certain models don't hold onto the system, then how reliable are those models going to be?) and you have every reason to treat the forecast path on days 4 and 5 as little better than coin flips.

Of course, all this could be thrown out the window as the south east is literally baking underneath the high pressure (which is supposed to incidentally push Dean west to west north west) so it's quite possible that either the heat wave doesn't break a bit and dean continues the path, or something does come in and dean takes a more northerly course.

All of this is of course pointing towards a great 'i don't know' as far as where Dean is going. If i had to hazard any sort of guess, I'd say it's going to continue to track a hair to the right of the NHC path and come through just north of Jamaica, brush the western tip of Cuba and from there it's anyone's guess.

I'd also say it's not going to reach cat 5 (before entering the gulf) if it follows the path I think it will. simply too much interaction with land to wind up that hard. Now the biggest question that comes to mind, with all the heat content in the gulf, if it makes it in there relatively intact, with all that forward speed, there wont be time for any upwelling to hinder development, so it could simply slurp up all that energy and chug along like a freight train into somewhere, which also means if it keeps cruising along at 20+ MPH, it's going to get where it's going really quick. and people could get caught off guard in a very bad way (which is a nightmare scenario any way you look at it).


wxman007
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 10:28 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Quote:

Watching the beginning of the 18z GFS operational run...seems to be struggling with the short-term intensity of Dean. Shows lowest central pressure of 1002 mb at 36 hours.

Dean is, and should be, a wee bit lower than that pressure-wise.




Yup...but modellers use a technique called vortex bogusing in situations like this. If you initalize a model with a 960-ish vortex the model doesn't like it at ALL, so the vortex is 'bogused" and raised in SLP to something the model can handle. This is done on purpose, and the it pretty much averages out in the first few time steps of of the model run.


BlueBayou1
(Registered User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:01 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

I hope I'm not out of line by asking this question... I've been reading over all of these posts and trying to figure out just what is going on, but I'm no weather expert, just watch it alot and try to keep up with what's going on. But from reading these posts on here, I can't quite figure out if all of YOU think the gulf is more in the line of fire at this point, or is central america? I know this will be hard for all of you to answer, but I've seen some models on another website showing it hitting texas, and some on another site going no where near it. I live in Louisiana so I'm watching this quite close!!

HanKFranK
(User)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:06 PM
honeymoon

dean seems intent on wrecking the places i went for my honeymoon. the ports of call were grand cayman and ocho rios... reverse order, but it looks like dean has them on the itinerary for sunday and monday.
clark gave his more professional take on the same sort of thing i've been mulling over. dean has been closing ground with that upper weakness, which like many do is being more persistent than not. dean will also feel the pull of the larger islands (from it's windfield being warped) and make some jogs here and there to compensate for the asymmetry. i wouldn't be too surprised if it opts for that slightly more northerly course that pushes it over the northern side of jamaica and keeps it tilted ever so slightly towards the northern edge of the guidance envelope. this hurricane is really trucking... if it is indeed designated for texas then it will be there in 5-6 day range. if you're in the state, particularly in the southern and central parts, be vigilant and concerned if on sunday the hurricane goes just north of jamaica. course, to the south and then it's probably mexico all the way.
HF 2306z17august

extra note: satellite appearance is still improving. wont be surprised if the recon finds a hurricane with a 940-950 pressure and winds around 140. -HF


weather_wise911
(Weather Hobbyist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:08 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

The Gulf Coast... from Mexico to Alabama needs to watch this very closely. At this point... there is still quite a bit up in the air. Right now, I like the GFDL--others feel differently--but the bottom line is.... from June 1st to November 30th..... you need to be prepared, so that nothing is a surprise.


Take care...
WW-911


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:18 PM
Re: honeymoon

Quote:


extra note: satellite appearance is still improving. wont be surprised if the recon finds a hurricane with a 940-950 pressure and winds around 140. -HF




It would actually surprise me if the *didn't* find at least a Cat 4 storm and that kind of pressure, HF. The satellite appearance of Dean this evening is extremely impressive, and as you said, it's still improving. Eyewall replacement cycles not withstanding, Dean is well on the way to becoming a Cat 5 - possibly tomorrow.


Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:37 PM
Re: honeymoon

Here is some recon data:

232830 1500N 06511W 6989 02836 9990 +077 +999 052123 127 091 055 05
232900 1459N 06510W 6942 02844 9990 +079 +999 048126 130 093 063 01
232930 1457N 06509W 6965 02765 9990 +094 +999 043093 110 121 022 05
233000 1456N 06508W 6990 02692 9525 +133 +133 036070 077 123 014 03

Please tell me if I am interpreting this wrong, but it looks to me that they found flight level winds up to 126 knots (30-sec average) and surface winds up to 123 knots (10 second average).

This might not be a pass through the center, either. Not sure the exact location of the plane vs the vortex, but it has to be somewhere close.


Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:38 PM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Quote:


Yup...but modellers use a technique called vortex bogusing in situations like this. If you initalize a model with a 960-ish vortex the model doesn't like it at ALL, so the vortex is 'bogused" and raised in SLP to something the model can handle. This is done on purpose, and the it pretty much averages out in the first few time steps of of the model run.




Does a 960-ish vortex really behave the same as a 980-ish vortex, though? I assume there is sufficient evidence to indicate that it does, but it seems like the model output would be of questionable validity - garbage in, garbage out situation, you know. As the 'cane gets more powerful, too, it would seem that the models would be more suspect because of this difference in initialization. Or do they do something else to compensate for the pressure bogusing?

Random Chaos: I can't read that recon report (I'm no good at reading those formats), but the 123kts at the surface is about what I would estimate, based upon the IR presentation. Not saying it's accurate, just what I would expect looking at the imagery.

Will the NHC issue another "full" Special Advisory package to upgrade Dean to a Cat 4, and up the intensity on the forecast, like they did just six short hours ago?


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:39 PM
Dean

Recon just reported 126 kt flight-level winds and surface winds from SFMR at 123 kts, so Dean is likely to be upgraded to cat 4 status on the upcoming advisory.

edit: Random Chaos beat me to it on the recon winds. From the lat/lon, looks like they were somewhere in the western eyewall.


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:41 PM
Re: Dean

at 23:29:00Z and around 14.98N 65.17W at an alt of about (~ 20.50 inHg) 2,844 meters (~ 9,331 feet) Recon reported a flight level wind - From 48° at 126 knots (From the NE at ~ 144.9 mph) .... They should be flying through the eyewall or just may have..... there alt. went from 11k to about 8k the last i saw.. and now going back to about 10... looks like the pressure has dropped.. waiting on vortex.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:44 PM
Re: Dean

I'm not seeing an Eyewall penetration in the data. But the 126 knots winds are correct and that would translate to about 146 mph at flt level or 131 mph at the surface.

Lowest pressure I've seen so far is 952mb. But that's a flight level pressure.


Thunderbird12
(Meteorologist)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:55 PM
Re: Dean

The lowest extrapolated pressure I've seen was at 2331:30 UTC (about 20 minutes ago) at 942.9 mb, where the winds where relatively calm. There could be a vortex message coming soon.

Regarding the advisory, I don't know if they will bother to update the full package now or not. I can't imagine they like to update intensity forecasts on the fly unless it is really necessary.


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Fri Aug 17 2007 11:55 PM
Re: Dean

i think they went through the eyewall... because at 23:34:00Z at 14.80N 64.92W the plane was at alt. (~ 20.57 inHg) 2,794 meters (~ 9,167 feet) and had a flight level wind of - From 213° at 104 knots
(From between the SSW and SW at ~ 119.6 mph) ***Notice its from the SW... Inbound had a NE wind
*** and the air temp got up to about 63F when the winds got light... and then as they went out.. temps back in the 40'sF... alt at the 63.2F was at about 8k ft


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:00 AM
Re: Dean

here we go

000
URNT12 KNHC 172356
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE AL042007
A. 17/23:32:00Z
B. 14 deg 52 min N
065 deg 02 min W
C. NA mb 2632 m
D. 119 kt
E. 302 deg 006 nm
F. 048 deg 130 kt
G. 309 deg 010 nm
H. 946 mb
I. 8 C/ 3045 m
J. 18 C/ 3045 m
K. 13 C/ NA
L. CLOSED
M. 16
N. 12345/7
O. 0.02 / 2 nm
P. AF302 0504A DEAN OB 03
MAX FL WIND 130 KT NW QUAD 23:29:00


MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:00 AM
Re: Dean

Well the vortex is out, roughly 135MPh surface winds and pressure's at 946! Millibars.

The GFDL went back west to mid Texas, however. Still not trusting the long range models, however (Either direction).


Random Chaos
(Weather Analyst)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:04 AM
Re: Dean

NHC: "...DEAN REACHES CATEGORY FOUR STRENGTH AS ITS CENTER PASSES SOUTH OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS..."

Hugh
(Senior Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:08 AM
Re: Dean

Quote:


The GFDL went back west to mid Texas, however. Still not trusting the long range models, however (Either direction).




The real question for the shorter term is whether Dean actually makes landfall over the Yucatan. If it does, it will weaken, some at least, temporarily. If it doesn't, we're looking at a cat 5 hurricane entering the Gulf. Even if it moves over to Texas, the waves and high surf that will be generated will impact much of the coastline. I still remember Ivan, which generated incredible storm surge and waves even though it had weakened significantly by landfall.


Storm Hunter
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:09 AM
Re: Dean

Interesting part of the Pub. adv.
"REPORTS FROM AN AIR FORCE RESERVE RECONNAISSANCE AIRCRAFT INDICATE
THAT MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS HAVE INCREASED TO AT LEAST 130
MPH
...215 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER GUSTS." ... winds on recon are light now.. they were still heading SE, but should be turning now to the north


weather999
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:11 AM
Attachment
Re: Dean

Dean looks like a smaller Wilma (at peak intensity), to me-just Dean's eye is larger. Definitely not good news.

craigm
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:43 AM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

I agree with your call WW. Dean has been
moving west along 15N for the last 6hrs-- really feeling the effects of the ridge. Although we have seen some wild swings with model tracks in the past few seasons I think this reasoning of a landfall from Alabama to Mexico will verify. Anything East of that would require more troughing from the Midwest which no 3-6 day forecast supports. The kind of turn we expeirenced with Charlie and Wilma needs a digging front which rarely happens in August..


madmumbler
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:49 AM
Re: Major Hurricane Dean Moving Westward

Quote:

I hope I'm not out of line by asking this question... I've been reading over all of these posts and trying to figure out just what is going on, but I'm no weather expert, just watch it alot and try to keep up with what's going on. But from reading these posts on here, I can't quite figure out if all of YOU think the gulf is more in the line of fire at this point, or is central america? I know this will be hard for all of you to answer, but I've seen some models on another website showing it hitting texas, and some on another site going no where near it. I live in Louisiana so I'm watching this quite close!!




Nobody knows for sure. Even the NHC outright stated that at this point, the 4-5 day track is very suspect and up in the air.

As with any storm, take precautions, pay attention, and make sure if the track does come your way that you're prepared.

There is a lot still to come with this storm, especially since it's intensifying into a Cat 4 (and potentially a Cat 5).


charlottefl
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:32 PM
Hispanola

I do know one thing. If Dean continues to track north and runs over that 12,000 ft mountain on the
southwestern tip of Hispanola it will shred the circulation. Maybe not destroy it, but set it back from this
Cat 5 nonsense. The closer it tracks to that the better for everyone.



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