MikeCAdministrator
(Admin)
Sat Sep 11 2004 02:45 AM
Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

At 11PM, Ivan was a high end Category 4 storm (1 MPH more would put it into cat 5 status), and it's current deepening cycle makes it an almost certainty that it will reach category 5 before it reaches Jamaica. Jamaica right now is feeling hurricane force winds, but the eyewall is still offshore by about 30 miles.

Folks, there will be huge devistation and death in Jamaica. Prayers are definitely with them tonight.



** SITE NOTE ** Although we are working on improving the site hardware and bandwidth (thanks to donations and help from others), we are still using the old system currently, with slight modifications. Therefore the site may go down from time to time, although not for very long. We are continually working on improving the response without removing usefulness. We have new hardware on order and should be in sometime next week.

Those asking for a mailing address for donations should use
Mike Cornelius
804 Omni Blvd
Suite 101
Newport News, VA 23606

Event RelatedLinks
Jamaican Radar (long and short range)
Jamaican Weather Service
Stormcarib personal reports from Jamaica
Ivan Models -- This image animated over time
Ivan Spaghetti Model from Hurricanealley/boatus (Working Link)
Weather Underground Model Plots for Ivan
The Caribbean Hurricane Page - updates from the islands
Caribbean Island Weather Reports
Nice color satellite image
Animated Color Ivan Satellite (With NHC Track Overlay)
(Animated Version)
High Speed Satellite Loops (Click floater)
Forecast Discussions for (Show All Locations):
Tampa. Miami, Key West, Tallahassee.
Melbourne
Hurricane Local Statements for Weather Offices in:
Key West (Florida Keys)Long Range Radar Loop

General Links
Skeetobite's storm track maps
Current Aircraft Recon Info

Disaster Relief Information

NRL Monterey Marine Meteorology Division Forecast Track of Active Systems (Good Forecast Track Graphic and Satellite Photos)

Check the Storm Forum from time to time for comments on any new developing system.

Follow worldwide SST evolution here:

Global SST Animation

NASA GHCC Interactive Satellite images at:

North Atlantic Visible (Daytime Only), Infrared, Water Vapor
LSU Sat images

Some forecast models:
NGM, AVN, MRF, ETA ECMWF
AVN, CMC, GFDL, JMA, NOGAPS, UKMET

DoD Weather Models (NOGAPS, AVN, MRF)

Multi-model plots from WREL
Other commentary at Independentwx.com, Robert Lightbown/Crown Weather Tropical Update Accuweather's Joe Bastardi (now subcriber only unfortunately), Hurricane Alley North Atlantic Page, HurricaneVille, Cyclomax (Rich B.), Hurricane City , mpittweather , WXRisk, Gary Gray's Millennium Weather, storm2k, Barometer Bob's Hurricane Hollow, Snonut,

Even more on the links page.


LI Phil
(User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 02:48 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Once again, Mike, thanks for the new thread...and the possible CAT V threat to Jamaica...they really need to keep abreast of things.

PM me about the breach of the site..I can't find it...could be that it's late Friday night...let me know...


MrSpock
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:00 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

The pressure is about as low as it was when it was a 5. Unless it weakens soon due to proximity of Jamaica, the stronger winds should spin down to the surface by morning, and push it past the 155 it now is. 90 deg. water north of Jamaica is not too far off. The next Vortex message should be interesting.

rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:03 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

http://www.esl.lsu.edu/AOI/AOI1_wv_loop.html

Still, looks like the eye may miss landfall.

However, that's like the difference between "really bad", and "super bad"...

Must be a freakin' wild ride down there

My hopes are with them.


belleami
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:06 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

It looks to me like it is going west. Just plain west.
Is that all wrong?
Susie


ShanaTX
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:07 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

I thought I was seein' things on that little west hop...

Jeffmidtown
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:10 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Just heard on WXIA 11 Alive that the Ga Department of Transportation announced that they may make both I-75 and I-95 Northbound one-way if needed for evacuees from Florida. I-75 will run at least 100 miles northbound with the southbound lanes reversed.

GDOT Press Release


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:10 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Like I said earlier, a (hopefully) wobble to the West might make it miss landfall. That is still holding, evidently. I can't see it making any difference in U.S. landfall, but just to spare Jamaica a little.

Man, must be really, REALLY bad there right now...

Edit: I Googled topographical info earlier. I think the SW to W of Jamaica has tons of rivers coming out of an E to W spine of mountains... going to be tons of flooding in the West from what I learned... Only hope is that it's moves through quickly.


Lake Toho - Kissimmee
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:10 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

It maybe moving slightly North of West, but it looks like the ridge is eroding.. so like the NHC will most likely turn more northward maybe tommorow or so..

RevUp
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:11 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

This is absolutely incredible to see Ivan strengthen in an environment of increased shear - obviously not enough to counter the higher SSTs.

belleami
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:16 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Is there any possibility that is will turn purely west?

kelcot
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:19 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Holy S%&t, Man! We think we have traffic problems here now? Not to mention HERO can't do things here in a reasonable timeframe, let alone dealing with a ton of evacs.

I spoke to my mom today (Vero) she said that there were power crews, etc. there from all over the country (Or, Wa, NY, Ky, etc) She still is without power. They said they HOPE to get it on by tomarrow.


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:19 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

I agree. Ivan has just BOOMED visually the last few hours. Scary how it's reformed so easily, especially at night.

Maybe the extended ridge I think I'm seeing will interfer with Ivan on a (hopefully) down-cycle in the morning.


RevUp
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:19 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Ivan is approaching that critical phase of curvature. Forecasts and movement have been so consistent, so expect Ivan to continue "stair-stepping" northwestward toward Cuba.

rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:21 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

We've got people here in Ocala with power-restoration timelines in the late next week.

Just Imagine if Ivan walks through....


belleami
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:23 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Quote:

Ivan is approaching that critical phase of curvature. Forecasts and movement have been so consistent, so expect Ivan to continue "stair-stepping" northwestward toward Cuba.



Thanks.


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:25 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

While I'm not a forecaster by any means, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...

Ummm... *NO*

it's going to hit from the Everglades to the Panhandle... Stay tuned...

Don't worry too much. We'll get through this as many have before us..


kelcot
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:26 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

God Forbid....but, if Ivan were to hit the west coast as a cat v, and it scooted across the state into the Atlantic, how much would it weaken by the time the eye wall hits the other coast? (I mean the E coast of Fl not NC, SC)

Jamiewx
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:32 AM
Ivan and Florida

I'm a little confused tonight as to where the forecast is going with this Hurricane. I see the NHC sticking with a track to the panhandle, and then I see Joe B insistant on a West Coast landfall, along with the Accuweather forecast. I do respect both forecasts but each has different implications for the peninsula. What is it that NHC sees that JB doesn't or what is it that JB sees that NHC doesn't? What do the other Mets thing about this? (Ed, JK, Clark and others).

And as for this " A SLIGHT CHANGE TO THE RIGHT OF
THE TRACK COULD BRING IVAN INLAND ANYWHERE ALONG THE WEST COAST OF FLORIDA." I think that kinda shows the uncertainty in the track and implies that the Hurricane could landfall anywhere on the west coast.


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:32 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

There is no way it's a Cat V. I would guess II to III. As far as how much it would weaken, see Charley. ( i.e., not much)

To be honest, I'm hoping it will go ANYWHERE from me at least 80 miles away as a Cat II. (Wishcast # 2407)

Just get some sleep tonight. It's a LONG way off, and many things can change in the next 48 hours..


Terra
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:34 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Odd.... the last point on the IR has a southernly component to it....

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/float-ir4-loop.html


daddyrabbit4570
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:34 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

I feel sorry for everyone in this storms path, I know how it feels. Frances did not hit us as a hurricane in SC or NC but the tornadoes spawnded from that storm were bad enough. Hope everybody here are blessed.

rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:39 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

WOW!!!

Truly freaky! Short term turn for sure, but a boon for not making landfall.

Wonder if Ganja had anything to do with it?


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:39 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Never say never, 2004 is the year of all the rules being broken.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:41 AM
Re: Ivan and Florida

Jamie, I think they have so much data coming at them, they don't know which way to go with it. The local TV met called me earlier, and he basically thinks the same thing. The phrase they put in the last discussion, was a "nice" way of saying we aren't sure either. It was close to a "No Duh" phrase.
As you have seen the tracks walk east and west all week. Any track west of the penisula would put Ivan along the coast. As Frank and others have pointed out in the probabilities post, on the other thread, the 65nm of a point is basically 1 degree of latitude or longitude. Wouldn't take too much variance off track to get the whole coast in the picture.


HCW
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:42 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Makes you wonder why Dr Gray downgraded his numbers

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:45 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

so what are ur guys thinking when it makes landfall in Florida?cat II,III, or IV, V?

RevUp
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:46 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Quote:

There is no way it's a Cat V (at FL landfall). I would guess II to III. As far as how much it would weaken, see Charley. ( i.e., not much)



Well, Charley did weaken, but from a cat IV to cat II - still strong enough to snap trees and destroy mobile homes. You can expect about a two category drop when a tropical cyclone moves inland, depending a lot on topography and time spent over land.
Whether Ivan makes landfall or not, it is bound to be close enough to the west coast of FL for MANY coastal residents to feel a major impact!
NHC is doing a great job for public safety - better to opt for the west coast track at this time - note that the entire peninsula of Florida is still within the "cone of concern." At this point in time, who cares about the point of landfall?


Bev
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:46 AM
Re: Ivan and Florida

Quote:

I'm a little confused tonight as to where the forecast is going with this Hurricane. I see the NHC sticking with a track to the panhandle, and then I see Joe B insistant on a West Coast landfall, along with the Accuweather forecast. I do respect both forecasts but each has different implications for the peninsula. What is it that NHC sees that JB doesn't or what is it that JB sees that NHC doesn't? What do the other Mets thing about this? (Ed, JK, Clark and others).

And as for this " A SLIGHT CHANGE TO THE RIGHT OF
THE TRACK COULD BRING IVAN INLAND ANYWHERE ALONG THE WEST COAST OF FLORIDA." .




I addressed this in the previous forum but my reasoning was quickly drowned out by "The NHC wouldn't do that on purpose!" I stand my ground.

I believe it is a case of Psychology vs. Meteorology. I believe the NHC considers West coast of FL most likely landfall area. But in order to say so, they have to plant a "dart" somewhere on the map. When that happens, the rest of Florida relaxes somewhat. I don't believe they feel confident enough of any landfall site to allow the rest of FL to let down their guard even a little bit. Remember Charley? Folks screamed loudly "We thought it was hitting Tampa!"

Just my .02 cents on this. Joe Bastardi can afford to be a little mouthier than the NHC. Too many lives are in their hands for them to possibly lead some into complacency anywhere along the coast.


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:47 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

yeah that SW wobble very noticable on the IR loops.... might be the difference in some areas of Jamaica getting say 120 mph winds as opposed to 150 plus.... won't know till we see the damage reports.... still bad enough as it is

wobble could be caused by interaction of Ivan's overall flow with the mountains of the island and causing it to shift left a tad... or perhaps the ridge is still hanging in there.... do believe at the moment the system is a little south of the official forecast track... as was posted earlier, right after exiting Jamaica start looking for that discernable NW track... that's what the models are predicting... find out soon enough...


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:47 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

http://www.cira.colostate.edu/ramm/rmsdsol/TROPICAL.html

Re: The "Southward" turn

Could it temporally be the path of least resistance? I see the Atlantic Ridge holding firm and to the West nothing but Westerly flow.

I donno... I just hope Jamaica spared a bit.



meto
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:51 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

its almost a 5 right now. may be 165 170 on saturday.

Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:52 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Richiesurfs: I wasn't implying that Jerve or Terry were NOT agreeing with the NHC, in fact they mentioned several times (maybe several HUNDRED times) that the NHC had done a terrific job with the very hard to forecast storms. Vipir is a local model that only forecasts 48 hours out. That being said, Channel 8 would show the NHC track first and then the VIPIR track and the VIPIR track was more accurate with future paths hour to hour...not off the NHC's track by much, but it did a great job of forecasting. I don't think that a statement by a local met stating that he thinks it may be a little further east than the official track is wrong, as "a little further east" is in the "cone". If you remember, Bryan Norcross was the ONLY one who went on the air to tell Miami residents that Andrew was headed their way ---something the NHC did not "forecast" --- and he was right. Just because these mets don't work for the NHC doesn't mean they're any less qualified to give a forecast. It's not like the NHC's saying "Texas" and he's saying "Tampa".
Tom Terry did a great job with Frances with the model they used. When the NHC was showing a near miss ala Floyd, Tom followed the path to a tee. Only when it was apparant that it WOULD hit Florida did he show their model..which turned it more west, making landfall almost exactly where he said it would.
I just wanted to clear that up.


Kdubs
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:54 AM
Speaking of Hurricanes

(off topic post removed - please repost sports info in the Everything & Nothing Forum - Thanks)
ED


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:55 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Absolutly!

Probably the worst case for Florida is to grind up the West coast. While a "quickie" entry-exit across South Florida is becoming less likely, it might be the least damaging.

It's weird thinking like this, but maybe it's the Panhandle's turn to take a hit for the state. The bulk of the state has been ripped so far. I truly hate to wish it towards anyone!



RevUp
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:55 AM
Re: Ivan and Florida

Just a reminder of the link to Florida's Storm Surge Zones, Evacuation Routes, etc.
If Ivan accelerates northward along the west coast, look for a higher storm surge, esp. at high tide.


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 03:56 AM
Re: Satellite Eclipse

For those that are new to the board. The satellites will be entering an eclipse with the Sun, from about 04Z to 0615Z.
That's 12am to 215am EDT. The image may appear to be updating, but if you check the timestamps on the pics you will see that most stop at 0345Z or 0400Z. Depending on your source. The loops will look as Ivan is stationary, when in fact he's not. The sats should be back up between 0230-0300edt. As it takes several minutes for the imagers to power back up.
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/SATS/eclipse.html


Jeffmidtown
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:02 AM
Re: Satellite Eclipse

Just saw a sat shot from Jamaica on or local ABC affiliate(WSB-TV) and Ivan has made landfall, it looks like near Kingston I believe...

It's time to really remember Jamaica in our prayers right now.


kelcot
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:05 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Like I said yesterday.....
Godparents in Sarasota.......Charlie
Mom, grandparents, aunts, etc in Vero..........Frances
Inlaws have a beautiful beach house in PCB.......Ivan?

Granted, these weren't "direct hits", but certainly close enough. Plus, if Ivan does go up to the panhandle, and into Al, there will be serious destruction. Anyone ever take the trip to PCB from ATL via Hwy 431?


RevUp
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:07 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Quote:

the VIPIR track was more accurate with future paths hour to hour...not off the NHC's track by much, but it did a great job of forecasting.



I for one am tired of seeing VIPIR inappropriately compared to NHC forecasts. It is a great visual tool for the short term (6 hours) because it's a radar and weather feature perpetuation tool. If you were watching closely, VIPIR was all over the place for Frances. It kept taking Frances north up the east coast when Frances stalled. Only when Frances started moving a little faster toward FL did VIPIR show a more reasonable short-term movement. Notice that VIPIR has a bias to move broad circulations toward the NE.
Sorry I couldn't resist to add my .02.
Jeff


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:08 AM
Re: Satellite Eclipse

Here's the latest shot from GHCC, doesn't look like landfall-yet.
http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/GOES03452004255wWvPQO.jpg


Justin in Miami
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:11 AM
Why the more west movement?

Frank P....I was thinking the same thing...maybe interaction with the mountains on the island? I have heard this can cause the eye to sort of rotate around them and resume course....hmm that's a question for the mets on this board...and btw...where are they? j/k I am sure they are very busy and in awe of what they are watching on sat loops.

BillD
(User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:14 AM
Re: Ivan and Florida

Bev, I agree, but I have to be careful what I say or some mod willl edit my post. So all I wll say is I agree.

Bill


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:22 AM
Re: NOGAPS

anyone see the NOGAPS 48hr run..... looks to me to be further west and south than previous runs....hmmmm..

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:23 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Colleen...My post wasn't directed at you. Someone posted earlier that they saw Tom Terry say that He didn't exactly agree with the NHC's forecast track and that is what I was referencing. He;s entitled to his opinions but I still think he should not be undermining what the NHC says... just my opinion.

Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:24 AM
Re: Why the more west movement?

the last 1:45 minutes of IR loops shows Ivan on a basically west track, or perhaps just north of due west... since its so close to the island it is basically a worst case scenario set up... they are getting pounded with the ne quadrant, and even though the eye in not onland at the present time... its awful close to the island right now and I'm relatively sure parts of the eye wall is just playing havoc with poor Jamaica

SirCane
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:26 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Ivan is moving West right now and even has had a slight WSW jog. The eye looks like it's going to miss the Jamaica coast for sure. I saw this happening early this afternoon.

I think Ivan is going to go between Pensacola and Panama City. The more it moves West like it does the farther West Ivan will hit in the U.S.


Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:26 AM
Re: Ivan and Florida

The local met here in orlando has said that Ivan will be a cat V until it landfalls Cooobah (cuba). Then down to a 4 and eventually a 3 near the fla panhandle if that track goes that way.
My question is after it enters the Fla Straits near Key West, what prevents it from going back to a Cat V?
Does it have anything to do with a Northward movement?
I've told family and friends today not to worry that it will not be a cat V byt the time it gets to central Florida but I just realized I don't know the reasoning behind it. I'm just repeating what the Mets said and what I've seen forecast.


RevUp
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:26 AM
Re: Why the more west movement?

As very fluid systems, hurricanes like to take the path of least resistance. You're right ... the topography is enough to steer Ivan to the left before it jumps north again, plus the upper level trofing to the north of Cuba may be helping to contain Ivan to the south on a more westward track. Amazing how accurate NHC has been with this Jamaica forecast. It will be interesting to watch once it clears Jamaica!

Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:28 AM
W/S Turn

Tom Terry just said that it may be the strengthening of the storm that may spare Jamaica a direct landfall. However, if the hurricane force winds go out 60 miles, what's the difference between a direct landfall and a brush? Florida's looking at the same exact scenario.

Oh yeah...according to the latest update, they show Ivan crawling up along the west coast of Florida as a CAT 4 until it reaches the Panhandle...as a Cat 3. . A 30-mile jog to the east could be the difference between "bad" and "extremely bad". I don't know how big Ivan is, but I think everyone in Florida will feel the effects of Ivan, unless there is a major change in the track in the next 2 days.
Tom Terry just said that "for now we'll stick with NHC's forecast, the models are battling it out right now, we'll see what it brings in the next couple of hours."
I report, you decide.


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:29 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

The eye looks to me about 30 miles offshore? Still, they are getting the NE component...

Signing off for tonight... will get up for 5 am update.. Just another day in Florida!


SirCane
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:29 AM
Re: Why the more west movement?

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/float-vis-loop.html

Look at this. It wobbled WSW.


Rasvar
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:29 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Oh my. They are actually giving DynaGel tv time. I don't even want to think about the tallk that will start.

WXMAN RICHIE
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:31 AM
Thomas predicts landfall at Siesta Key

Email as of 11:30 pm:

The intense eyewall of CAT 5 Ivan is just south of the capital city of Kingston Jamaica at 11:15 pm EDT/0315 UTC. This is a catastrophic event we are watching and it will result in large loss of life. If you collect satellite images of tropical cyclones it's time to capture images of Ivan now because he is the perfect storm at the moment.

I forecast a landfall of a CAT 3 hurricane along the SW coast of Florida between Charlotte Harbor and Tampa Bay on Tuesday September 14, 2004, with a bulls eye on Siesta Key. Then we will see an inland track towards the NNE-NE possibly once again impacting the Orlando metro area. Statistically a second landfalling major tropical cyclone into Charlotte Harbor twice in one season is remote but the shallow estuary will be impacted in some negative way. A right turn into the SW coast due to speed divergence much like Charley is probable with Ivan, but Ivan will move slower then Charley. I forecast Ivan to be only a CAT 3 at landfall due to developing SW shear in the region.

By the way I can't ever remember a "major" hurricane landfalling in the big bend region of north Florida.


Take Care,
Thomas F. Giella
Retired Space & Atmospheric Weather Forecaster
Plant City, FL


WeatherNLU
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:31 AM
Re: Why the more west movement?

Quote:

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/float-vis-loop.html





Surely a WSW jog. The center should have passed over eastern Jamaica with the trajectory it WAS on. It's now passing south.

Poor Jamaica, they have been embedded in the northern eyewall for 3 hours now.
Look at this. It wobbled WSW.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:32 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

one more thing...ifTom Terry didn't really say that then i'm all wrong about the whole thing. i respect him and really think he's good. of all the local stations i watch his is the one i choose over the others. that being said, i will still trust the NHC over anyone else no matter how qualified they may be.

RevUp
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:34 AM
Re: Ivan and Florida

Quote:

My question is after it enters the Fla Straits near Key West, what prevents it from going back to a Cat V?
Does it have anything to do with a Northward movement?



This from the latest tropical weather discussion "... AN UPPER LOW NE OF THE BAHAMAS DRIFTING SW MAY IMPINGE UPON THE OUTFLOW DURING THE NEXT DAY OR SO. ... THE BIG FEATURE OVER THE SUBTROPICAL ATLC IS THE MID-OCEANIC UPPER TROUGH WHICH CONTINUES TO FRACTURE FORMING A VERY LARGE UPPER LOW NEAR 29N60W. THE UPPER LOW IS NOW RETROGRADING QUICKLY WESTWARD AND ERODING THE MID/UPPER LEVEL RIDGE WHICH HAS PERSISTED OVER THE W ATLC FOR SEVERAL DAYS. STRONG SUBSIDENCE AND DRY AIR WITH THE UPPER LOW IS SPREADING WESTWARD AND NOW COVERS A GOOD PORTION OF THE W ATLC TO THE SE UNITED STATES COAST."
In a word, "shear."


SirCane
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:35 AM
Re: W/S Turn

I think NOGAPS has a better handle on Ivan than the others do.

This thing is moving due West right now.


mud1967
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:40 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Interesting and wonderful news that they are making evacuatiing more easy. So many don't leave because they know how bad it is to be stuck.

Tallahassee news 27 is going out on a limb and forcasting that they think it will be a US landfall. Now what's up with being so general that they can't even say it will be in Florida most likely. Maybe their thinking it will hit Minnesota.


Second Shift
(Verified CFHC User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:40 AM
Re: W/S Turn

Colleen-I'm amazed at your knowledgel I just want to say Godspeed to those millions dealing with Ivan the Terrible. I have never seen a hurricane (much less a tornado). I cannot imagine what it would be like. We have plenty of room up here in Iowa for those who have had enough!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:41 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

There is no wsw jog,, just about due west with the eye interacting with the mid level flow e-w along the coast of the island. This is expected and expect a wnw - nw course to begin against by morning. One important thing to note. The models again shift west. This might be in part of the upper low way to the east ( south of Bermuda) itching more W then expected and pushing the N-S ridge a bit more into the Bahamas-Eastern Florida. We will now know by tomorrow afternoon if landfall will happen Tampa or south. By time the 12z runs come out this afternoon coming up and they have the same area as the currect oz run or further west, then a shift to the Panhandle near Panama City will be the location of landfall on weds. Again really we will look at the 6z runs and expecially the major 12z run on saturday to know if Tampa south might be in only TS winds or less.

scottsvb


RevUp
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:42 AM
Re: Thomas predicts landfall at Siesta Key

Quote:

By the way I can't ever remember a "major" hurricane landfalling in the big bend region of north Florida.
Thomas F. Giella



I can't recall a "major" hurricane ever landfalling as far north as the Tampa Bay area. ... unless you count the 1921 hurricane (cat 3?)


Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:42 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Quote:

one more thing...ifTom Terry didn't really say that then i'm all wrong about the whole thing. i respect him and really think he's good. of all the local stations i watch his is the one i choose over the others. that being said, i will still trust the NHC over anyone else no matter how qualified they may be.




Agree with you about NHC. They are the ones to take heed of. Tom Terry got my kudos for Charley. He was the best of the best. I think durning Frances his ego showed just a bit but over all He is "the" weather guru in the Orlando area.

Will sign off soon for the night.
Best of luck to our friends in Jamaica. Its a rough night for that island.

I'm agreeing with most here who are thinking a central florida West coast landfall is the target area.


Rasvar
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:43 AM
Re: W/S Turn

I'm not seeing anything where one model is that far ahead of another right now. GFS has been a little out of it to me. GFDL seems to be prone to changes. I have actually liked UKMET's performance. NOGAPS has been good too. I see nothing that would allow me to choose between any of them at the moment, though.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:48 AM
Re: NOGAPS

wow....latest nogaps...more to west and near panama city? i think this computer has been doing real well this season.... sept. 15 00Z just south of PC.... keeps trending west... all we can hope for is for shear to kick in... also in the run.... looks to cross western tip of cuba........ right now i think we have a cat 5 and jamica....well....god bless them.....

SirCane
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 04:52 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

There was a WSW wobble. Maybe not a jog-but a wobble. Does seem to be moving West at this time.

Joe Bastardi was right. He predicted it a week ago. Ivan is causing serious knashing of teeth.


Frank P
(Veteran Storm Chaser)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:01 AM
Canadian Shifts West too

to the Florida panhandle near PC

96 hours
http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/data/model_forecast/134_50.gif
108 hours
http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/data/model_forecast/135_50.gif
120 hours
http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/data/model_forecast/136_50.gif

what will be in store for the morning forecast track... ???

would love to know what the FSU model is forecasting right now..... hmmmm


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:12 AM
Re: Recon Update

Plane is about 351 miles from the center of Ivan.
Should be giving a Vortex fix within the hour.


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:13 AM
Re: Thomas predicts landfall at Siesta Key

In looking at the records, I cannot recall a hurricane of any significance making landfall between Apalachicola and near Cedar Key since before the mid-1800s. That's not to say it can't happen -- you can take the approach that they are due, or take the approach that it's not likely to happen still.

NOGAPS is the furthest west with the storm, but something troubles me about the past few runs of the model. It develops a "child low" in the wake of Ivan in the central Caribbean -- essentially, a small piece of energy from Ivan remains behind as the storm moves away and sits over the central Caribbean Sea. I can't buy that happening, and I wonder if that has any impact on the track forecast. That is beyond my knowledge, unfortunately.

Ivan's jog to the west today was likely caused a bit by the asymmetry of the storm - convective drag. I can't go into more detail about it though as I don't full understand the mechanics behind it, however, but that appears to be one of the causes.

Intensity - don't know if I've ever seen a storm so round and robust as Ivan. I don't know how much longer it can keep it up, to tell the truth, as storms like this rarely stay this well defined for that long. Outflow is excellent SW counterclockwise to N and good in the remainder of the storm. It's just so well-defined as a storm. Recon should be out there shortly to give us a center fix -- will we break 920? My bets are on yes. The flight-level winds should begin/continue to respond to the drop in pressure beginning about now.

Track -- more concerned about parts of the peninsula today, particularly north of Tampa, but not willing to change my projections yet. Anyone from Pensacola to Key West needs to watch this one, as timing and wobbles may be critical in the long run. I still believe the area between Panama City and St. Marks is under the greatest threat, but due to slight weaknesses in the subtropical ridge and the position of the eastern trough, I'm not as confident in that as yesterday. The models I trust, though, are still within that narrower region...so we'll see how things play out.

Intensity -- the storm is more than likely a category 5 at this time, and depending upon eyewall replacement cycles will likely remain at such until it crosses Cuba. That could mean a day or two with a category 5 hurricane on our hands. I do not anticipate this storm remaining that strong after crossing Cuba nor restrengthening after doing so. Depending on the ultimate track, a low-end 3 to low-end 4 is what I am thinking at landfall. A track towards SW Florida or the central Panhandle is more likely at the higher end of that, whereas a track towards the western Florida peninsula is likely on the lower end of that. Shear is forecast to increase, but it has been forecast to increase for some time now yet has not done so. To tell the truth, I do not anticipate for it to do so to a large degree -- this storm is, in effect, controlling its own environment to some degree. And, once the storm rounds the base of the ridge and accelerates a bit towards landfall, the effective shear out of the S/SW may well be canceled out to some degree by the forward motion. Also of note is the position of the loop current in the Gulf and the recovery of the waters since Charley (as Frances stayed very near to shore and will likely have a minor impact on Ivan as it is)...to what degree they have recovered, particularly below the surface, and to what extent the loop current may be present in the eastern Gulf will control the intensity towards landfall.

Forward motion: the system should begin to slow a bit more once it passes Jamaica and take a day and a half to two days or so from now to inch towards Cuba. From there, the storm should slowly cross the island and gain some forward speed -- albeit not nearly as much as Charley -- as it passes northward towards Florida. Landfall in the four and a half to five day time period -- Wednesday -- is what I am looking at for right now. A track inland further south will likely bring the storm in sooner of course, perhaps as early as early Tuesday or even late Monday. Tending later, though.

And, as always...take everything you read besides the official forecast with a grain of salt. This represents my opinions only and, of course, I don't represent FSU or the FSU Superensemble in any way. By the way...the fee for getting access to the hurricane track forecasts was made known to me today...$30,000/year. Gulp.

In any case, let's see whatthis storm does in the next 36 hours -- hopefully by then, we'll know much more as to where it is going.

No comment about the "other" hurricanes!


SirCane
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:13 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

I would love to know what the FSU top secret model is up to. Had it just West of Pensacola last I heard! Wish I knew why it's so top secret.

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:16 AM
Re: NOGAPS

As much as I think the NOGAPS may be right in a further westward track of Ivan, I must note that its track errors to 5 days were the worst of any of the major models with Frances and that, on the whole, it has not been one of the better performing dynamical models this (or in the past few) season(s).

NOGAPS track errors with Frances on the 4-5 day time scale were on the order of 350+ miles. NHC official track errors were on the order of 150 miles, for reference. Note that the NHC official and FSU Superensemble were both about 150mi off at 5 days -- the NHC primarily due to actual direction (and landfall point), the FSU Superensemble primarily due to timing (but nailing the landfall location). Similar results were seen with Charley. Just something to keep in mind here.


BabyCat
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:18 AM
jamaica radio

Amazing but some areas still have phones and the radio station is still streaming.

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:19 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

It's not really top secret, but it is still technically experimental and the NHC/US govt. pays good money to FSU to obtain the forecasts, develop the model, and keep it proprietary. There are patents out on the processes used in the model, for what its worth.

And to clear up a misconception earlier, as I also noted in a previous thread...the Superensemble has *never* been west of Pensacola. The furthest west it has been at landfall is near Apalachicola, and the furthest west it has been before landfall is towards Ft. Walton Beach. No run to date has taken it inland west of Pensacola.


tom5r
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:23 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

does anyone have a link for Cuban radar?

SirCane
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:26 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

Where did you get that info about the FSU model? Heard different from 3 different people.

Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:28 AM
FSU Ensemble

Quote:

It's not really top secret, but it is still technically experimental and the NHC/US govt. pays good money to FSU to obtain the forecasts, develop the model, and keep it proprietary. There are patents out on the processes used in the model, for what its worth.




I know this will sound stupid, but if the U.S. Government is paying for it, then WE the TAXPAYERS are funding it. Therefore, just like we are entitled to see what else they're spending our money on, we should have access to it also.

But who listens to me? Not even my dog.


Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:32 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

Shhhh.
We;re not supposed to mention the FSU superensamble.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:35 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

Excuse me but I have been lurking here for quite a few years. Did I hear the US government is paying for the models and not making them available to th the gerneral public? I will bring this up with "friends" if this is the case.

tom5r
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:36 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

Do any of you good people out there have a link for Cuban radar?

Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:40 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

Let me check on the cuban radar. There was a link on here last month with Charley.....

Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:43 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

Cuban Radar Link
http://www.met.inf.cu/asp/dia.asp


Second Shift
(Verified CFHC User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:49 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

FYI-the word is spelled superensemble, also, hobbyist, not hobbiest. (Don't mind me, I'm a nitpicker)

Londovir
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:51 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

You can find Cuban radar (when it's available), at Cuban Radar

I am having trouble getting in to their site, so it's probably being overwhelmed with traffic from the net.

Just one comment about the FSU model. I agree with others on this one. If it's patented, they are legally protected from people stealing their proprietary system. There's little reason to keep the data so restricted from the general public - and less reason to keep the data from college degree'd professional meteorologists without hefty $30K price tags. I can maybe understand not letting Joe Public see it, as people without knowing about models may believe in an experimental model over the official, professional NHC directives. But to keep folks like JK (great initials, by the way, same as mine, heck, same first name even), Clark, etc from having access without the big money is ludicrous. Patent it, protect it, and keep getting your money from the government. It's things like this that start conspiracy theories...

Just to have some value to my post, don't forget you can also check buoys in the Caribbean at Buoy Reports Grand Cayman is starting to get gusty winds, according to the most recent buoy reports.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:53 AM
Re: recon

18.4n
79.1w
getting close to storm..... looks to be going down in alt now too..... think 10ft now....meaning now at outer feeder bands, on inbound from nw to cente @539z?

URNT11 KNHC 110539
97779 05394 70184 79108 30800 04049 10069 /3099
RMK AF963 1809A IVAN OB 08


tom5r
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:53 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

Thankyou so much for the cuban radar link. I suspect I'll be seeing Ivan appear in the not so distant future.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:55 AM
Re: Ivan Update

From The Weather Channel. Recon measured max winds at 187kts(215mph at flight level and 194mph at the surface!!) and pressure down to 905mb ( Same as Camille's lowest pressure)

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:57 AM
Re: Canadian Shifts West too

Just a note here: I *do* have access to the FSU Superensemble tracks. They are posted here for members of the FSU Dept. of Meteorology to look at - but not take, take pictures of, etc - and interpret. We are the only other group other than the NHC that gets the data.

Its development is a funded project, but I should clarify that it is not just the government doing so. They do receive funding from other agencies in and not in the government. It is not just a hurricane track/intensity model but also a global model used by government agencies, consulting firms who pay for access to its output, and others.

To answer SirCane's question, if I haven't done so in the above...I have access to it directly, so I've seen it with my own eyes.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 05:58 AM
Re: Ivan Update

who read report? at twc?

cat 5? major cat 5?


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:00 AM
UKMET shifts west

The UKMET model has shifted quite a bit west with the 00z run this morning. It now brings the storm inland near St. George Island, riding along U.S. 319 until it is almost directly over Tallahassee, then moving NNE into Georgia and South Carolina before slowing dramatically. Landfall timing is around 9-12z 9/15, or early morning Wednesday.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:01 AM
Re: Ivan Update

Dave Schwartz read it off of a printout he had in his hand. I posted it as soon as he read it.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:01 AM
Re: UKMET shifts west

They all shifted west clark.

Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:01 AM
Re: Ivan Update

905 MB's??????

Yikes...Ivan likes Jamaican waters


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:03 AM
Re: Ivan Update

Jamaican waters aren't as warm as the Cayman waters!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:04 AM
Re: Ivan Update

have you seen vortex?

jamaica is going to be ugly in morning......bless them all


BabyCat
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:04 AM
Re: Ivan Update

???????
905???


jth
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:06 AM
Re: Ivan Update

wasn't Gilbert's lowest around 888?

DroopGB31
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:07 AM
Re: Ivan Update

Dude are you serious? 905mb?? Cant wait to see the vortex message. Thats freakin insane if true!!!

Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:07 AM
Re: Ivan Update

Now hearing 920 mbs....makes more sense......

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:08 AM
Re: if recon found.....

why is the 2am than at 155mph.....why didn't they wait on recon?

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:08 AM
Re: Ivan Update

The 2AM update still has 155 MPH and pressure of 920 mb. If this vortex report came before the advisory you think they would update it.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:09 AM
Re: Ivan Update

They are holding it for some reason. If TWC had it 10 minutes ago it should be out by now.

Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:10 AM
Can My Nerves Get More Frayed???

As if dealing with the whens/where/ifs/buts/ands/ors of these last 3 storms wasn't enough to make me a little "tense", this just happened.

I was sitting here typing that last post and I kept hearing this "thump bump" noise coming from the garage. I have a golden retreiver who loves the garage, so I figured it was her thumping her tail. I went to open the door to the garage and as I opened it, I came face to face with the biggest doggone frog I've ever seen in my life! It must have been a value-meal size bullfrog. I was so scared (I hate frogs) that I couldn't even move. Then he jumped towards me, I jumped back and smacked my head on the side of the door, nearly knocking myself unconscious in the process. I slammed the door shut and locked it (like the frog could open the door or something) and made a beeline to the lanai to get a broom that I had used to sweep the pool area. Well, guess what? There were TWO MORE FROGS out THERE! Not nearly as big, though. I got so mad that I took the broom and knocked the living warts outta them.
This, of course, is not directly related to Ivan, but I do believe that these .... things...are seeking higher ground either because of Frances or the flooding we've had or maybe they're evacuating because of Ivan. I've never seen a frog that big EVER! The other night it was a big black snake slithering out of the garage. Ugh.

Dr. Steve Lyons just did a great segment on TWC. He showed how that even if the storm just stays off the coast, it will still have a huge impact. I also noticed that if Ivan does skirt close to the coastline, Tampa Bay juts out to the west more than any other area in Florida.

I just heard that thump again.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:11 AM
Re: Ivan Update

2am adv.... has est.... prss....
recon must of just came in....anyone seen vortex?

there should be a another adv... now .....


DroopGB31
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:11 AM
Re: Ivan Update

Dont trick us like that! lol you had me going for a second, I was about to freak out. Where has everyone gotten this vortex because it isnt on the NHC site. Need proof. Im bout to have a heart attack!

Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:13 AM
Re: Can My Nerves Get More Frayed???

Colleen, you're too funny !!
Careful, one of those frogs may be a prince in disguise !!!

"wish I could sleep but Ivan is keeping me up"


BabyCat
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:14 AM
Re: Ivan Update

I couldn't find it on the recon site...

HCW
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:15 AM
Re: Ivan Update

So was it a hoax ?

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:17 AM
Re: Can My Nerves Get More Frayed???

Good point Colleen. Things are far from normal where the critters normally live. So they are appearing in places you don't expect to find them. Watch out for snakes and other unusual animals.

BabyCat
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:17 AM
Re: Ivan Update

dunno
can't find it anywhere


bsnyder
(Verified CFHC User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:17 AM
Re: Ivan Update

Colleen, what did Steve Lyons say about the impact, if it just skirts the coast? Did he mention any storm surge heights for Tampa Bay?

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:17 AM
Re: Ivan Update

It just may not be publicly available yet. There is a lag time usually associated with the dissemination of these reports; oftentimes, TWC can have it a bit before the general public. And, those advisories are often created a bit before they are actually released. With a longer flight time en route to the storm for this recon flight, they may not have been able to wait on the recon fix. We'll know more within the half-hour.

jth
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:19 AM
Re: Ivan Update

not a hoax. TWC did say that. 905mb and ridiculous flight level winds. in the 215 MPH range.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:19 AM
Re: Ivan Update

I just posted what Dave at the Weather Channel was reading-word for word. Well, except for his rambling. I'll post the Vortex as soon as I get it. The other report have been running about 8 minutes delay.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:19 AM
Re: Ivan Update

if recon did.... notice last report i saw is over 50mins old..... they should of done vortex 20mins ago.....seems it could be true.... just that the 2am should of been held.... just seems funny winds went from 155 to 190? less than 30mins...

jth
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:20 AM
Re: Ivan Update

can someone post a link to the Sat picks when they come back.

Londovir
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:20 AM
Attachment
Re: Ivan Update

I'll post this attachment again. It's a basic Vortex Recon Decoder I've whipped up (for Frances, go figure I'd still need it). It tries to translate the basic Recon report into plain English for us regular peoples. Here's the basics for how to use it:

Save the attachment as a .HTML file. (Such as decode.html).
Open the file with your regular web browser.
Click the link above the box on the page to load the most recent Vortex Recon report.
Copy and paste the full recon report from that page into the box.
Click the Decode button.

I'm working on more improvements as we speak, but for now can help. Keep in mind my decoder ignores the overall max winds reported in the vortex report, and only decodes what the flight level inbound data line says. I'm working on it, and hopefully will get an easier one out the door soon. (Trying to streamline it to allow for supplemental decodes and all as well....)


Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:20 AM
Re: Ivan Update

I don't think that was a trick...I just read the advisory, and they did say "estimated" pressure. Maybe that's why Dave S. had such a dumbfounded look on his face when I tuned in to TWC. I missed his announcement. Or maybe he looks like that all the time.

Storm Cooper
(User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:21 AM
Re: Ivan Update

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/satellite.shtml

http://wwwghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/goes.html


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:23 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

All I want to say is I am praying for everyone who is in the path of Ivan. I send my every prayer that everyone is safe. God bless you all!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:25 AM
Re: ivan

twc must of got an email from warren...... wonder if he is on the flight LoL

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:28 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

They have that guy from the TWC onboard the recon for this flight and next few, im sure it was him who reported that to TWC as he is working for them. I do expect the winds to be back up to Cat 5 at 5am,,, pressure who knows.

Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:30 AM
GFS shifts west too...

Haven't seen this posted yet, but the GFS shifted west too with the 00z run, now calling for landfall in ~96hr near Tampa Bay on a north to north-northeast heading into the Lake City area, then into Georgia along the coast, followed by a journey up to Columbia, SC and a north-northwestward movement into the Appalachians. Would not be surprised to see a bit further west track at 5a...one which I don't plan on being awake to see.

Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:32 AM
Re: GFS shifts west too...

clark, when do sat pics come back on line?

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:33 AM
Re: GFS shifts west too...

A track you may not want to see either!

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:34 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

Maybe the Weather Channel recieved wrong information. I just have a hard time believing that a storm can intensify 35 MPH, especially when the eye is that close to land. If true, that is just amazing.

Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:38 AM
Re: Can My Nerves Get More Frayed???

Gee, thanks, Daniel. Now I'll NEVER sleep tonight, ROFLOL! FWIW, I saw 2 turtles crossing the road today (at a very slow place) and my husband said he saw a dead alligator on SR 60 in Bartow.

As far as the pressure drop....remember the other night when it jumped up to 160mph? The lowest pressure at one point was 915mb on Thurs. 5AM advisory. I wouldn't be surprised at all given the fact that it hasn't made landfall ...yet.


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:39 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

URNT12 KNHC 110612
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE
A. 11/0612Z
B. 17 DEG 22 MIN N
77 DEG 35 MIN W
C. 700 MB 2425 M
D. NA
E. NA
F. 020 DEG 138 KT
G. 290 DEG 016 NM
H. 923 MB
I. 10 C/ 3073 M
J. 17 C/ 3052 M
K. 16 C/ NA
L. CLOSED
M. CO12-40
N. 12345/7
O. 0.1/1.0 NM
P. AF963 1809A IVAN OB 09
MAX FL WIND 138 KT W QUAD 0607Z.


DroopGB31
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:39 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

I dunno bout that vortex message but I think it "may" have been true. Just a classic case of NHC being alittle conservative and not jumping the gun maybe? They could be trying to keep the message away from the public until a few more recon passes can verify whether or not it was true. This is just my best guess for now.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:40 AM
Re: Can My Nerves Get More Frayed???

Want to go to sleep, but I can't until I find out if the pressure really did fall that much and I see the newest sat picks. Sad I know.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:40 AM
Re: Ivan Update

M. CO12-40..........(concentric eyewalls at 12 and 40 miles)
P. AF963 1809A IVAN OB 09
MAX FL WIND 138 KT W QUAD 0607Z....(158.91mph/flt lvl or 143mph at the surface)
There's the vortex. I don't know where Dave got his info. However this is now 33 minutes old. I appologize for creating a stir. I won't quote TWC anymore!


Clark
(Meteorologist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:40 AM
New vortex out...& sat pic info

Wxwatcher, they will be available probably in a half-hour or so. The eclipse period is ending about now, but there is some delay before new images are available.

New vortex out...no confirmation of 905mb or intense flight level winds...

(edited to remove...it's already twice above)

Essentially, the minimum pressure isn't as low as the 2am advisory, while the flight level winds are still catching up to the low pressure. The storm is healthy, but not as healthy as a 905mb pressure. Perhaps they recoded those winds at a pressure level of 905mb, or a few hundred meters above the surface -- that is believeable...just not a surface pressure that low, at least not yet (gulp).

That's all for this evening...get some rest everyone, and good night.


Colleen A.
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:46 AM
Re: Ivan Update

He didn't mention storm surge, only said that the entire state could see extremely bad conditions even if it just skirts the coast. I don't even want to think what an actual landfalling hurricane Ivan would be like.

I feel like a little kid breaking my curfew...I have a LONG day tomorrow....I should have been sleeping hours ago.


DroopGB31
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:46 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

Hey Clark, Wasnt the 920mb pressure estimated, not actually measured? That could be why its 923, since an estimate isnt perfect. Otherwise, probably some very strong winds in the NE quad, wish they could get in there and sample it. Looking at the TCHP I think if Ivan can avoid some shear and an ERC he'll probably hit cat5

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:47 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

got to be warren sending info..... what does line M. mean?

could be possible...they went inbound on west side....near 290....strongest could be ne side


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:55 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

TWC just showed ob 9
fl lv at 7596ft
wonder if concentric eyewall has something in there?
press....923


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:57 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

URNT11 KNHC 110645
97779 06454 70161 76309 30600 21043 10079 /3089
RMK AF963 1809A IVAN OB 14


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 06:59 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

Line "M". Concentric eyewalls. Inner and Outer eyewalls. Rare phenomenon that appears when the storm is going through eyewall replacement cycles. Outer wall develops, and replaces the Inner wall. The outer wall then shrinks as the pressure drops and wind speed increase.

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 07:05 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

just saw 645 sat shot

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 07:07 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

looks like eye missed well south of island.... more of west than north track

Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 07:09 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

sat shot

BabyCat
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 07:11 AM
Re: New vortex out...& sat pic info

They are lucky...that wall is just skimming the coast. Can't imagine that passing over the island.

Just lost the radio stream from there


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 09:04 AM
Re: Recon

As of 0830Z-0430edt, both the Hurricane Hunter WC-130, and the NOAA 9 Gulfstream IV are doing recon. The Gulfstream is tasked with high altitude dropsonde release and gathering high altitude data, while the WC-130, is conducting normal mission tasks.

jannette
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 09:20 AM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

our prayers are also with those in Ivans path.

jannette
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 09:23 AM
Re: Recon

when do you get the info that these people collect-- and is it released to the publicquickly?

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 09:35 AM
Re: Recon Info

You can use this site for the info, and the decoding of it as well.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/reconlist.shtml


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 09:39 AM
Re: Recon

I'm really not agreeing with the 5am NHC track. Looks like it's going wide West of it to me. I also think during the ERC it's going to suck in a big gulp of dry air that's right along the Caymens.

What all this means I'm not sure. Maybe a slow down and turn to the North to get back on the NHC track.

Edit: Now I see most of the computer models are more in line with what I'm currently seeing - more NW path perhaps even skirting Caymens to the West. I hope the North component of the NHC track kicks in at that point and does not follow those model paths into the middle of Florida.


jlauderdal
(Weather Hobbyist)
Sat Sep 11 2004 09:49 AM
Re: Recon

Quote:

I'm really not agreeing with the 5am NHC track. Looks like it's going wide West of it to me. I also think during the ERC it's going to suck in a big gulp of dry air that's right along the Caymens.

What all this means I'm not sure. Maybe a slow down and turn to the North to get back on the NHC track.

Edit: Now I see most of the computer models are more in line with what I'm currently seeing - more NW path perhaps even skirting Caymens to the West. I hope the North component of the NHC track kicks in at that point and does not follow those model paths into the middle of Florida.




For as much of a wobbel as we had last night which was similiar to the charley wobble could easily happen again as its heading NW or N or even NE in time..i don;t thinke veryone should get all excited and think that this is means its defintely going to stay west. Be careful folks and don't try and micromanage a cane..doesn't work that way.


Renee
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 09:51 AM
Re: Recon

I "discovered" this site 2 days ago and I love it! Sitting in Tallytown in a home w/ 11ft ceilings and all glass to the South...hope the track changes before Wed. am., or comes ashore as a T.S. or less. Referring to posts in the night...Dave Schwarz is hilarious to watch...I'm not surprised he released questionable stats.
BTW...I can't believe how many people are online at this time in the morning...it's good to know there are other Larks like me!


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 10:05 AM
Re: Ivan and Dave

Latest WV loops are indicating the ridge/ trough combo over the FL straights and Bahamas has nudged it's way across most of the island of Cuba. (Cooobah-Phil). This could be a problem for the Yucatan Peninsula as well as the Northern FL coast. Ivan is moving just north of due west, and without a recurve soon he could end up closer to the central GOM.
*Forgot to mention Dave. I noticed not long after I posted the update, that Dave disappeared off camera, and wasn't seen the rest of his shift. I wonder what happened. You don't think somebody slipped him a hoax recon report, do you?


Renee
(Registered User)
Sat Sep 11 2004 10:10 AM
Re: Ivan and Dave

Yes, even though I don't consider myself any kind of weather guru, when I looked at WV imagery...the ridge does not seem to be fulfilling it's predicted destiny. I also wondered if the front or whatever it is coming in from the West seems to be slowing down?

rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 10:10 AM
WV issues

http://www.esl.lsu.edu/special_gifs/gulf_wv_loop.gif

You get a nice look at some drier air that hopefully will rough up Ivan a little. The small blob that's sort of fallen off the end of the Atlantic Ridge and is over the Caymens. Is there some softness of the ridge over the gulf stream area? It looks like some reinforcement coming in from the East though?

I presume that "front" (for lack of a better term) over the SE U.S. is going away in the next few days and allow Ivan to go northward.


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 10:19 AM
Re: WV issues

The cyclonic circulation around 30N and 70W, was moving west over night and pushing the ridge along with it. The trough, from Tampico, MX to near Pensacola, looks pretty solid now, although I did notice some convection popping through it, now and then. The cloudiness/ water vapor that had been over the western half of the Cuba, has moved to the west and southwest over the last few hours.

danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 10:24 AM
Re: Ivan Fix Update

For some strange reason, recon just did the second Vortex fix in 30 minutes. There were 2 changes. They are no longer reporting a concentric eyewall (double eyewalls). Eye is now Closed with a 30nm diameter.
**Pressure change** was 925mb at 0916Z.
Has now dropped to 923mb at the 0947Z fix.
Maybe the mets can answer this one. Was the pressure drop directly related to the eyewall closing. Kinda like a vacumn leak!


danielwAdministrator
(Moderator)
Sat Sep 11 2004 10:45 AM
Re: WV issues

Here is a wide angle WV loop. Showing all the systems. The areas inside/ surrounded by the blue lines, are generally Not favored for thunderstorm formation. Due to drier air in them.
http://www.esl.lsu.edu/AOI/AOI4_wv_loop.html


rule
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 10:56 AM
Re: WV issues

Yeah, the eye is shutting down. Wow, it looks like that drier air is getting stronger over Cuba down to the Caymans. I can see storms firing up along Cuba due to Ivan.

Going to be interesting today watching the interaction of Ivan vs. that drier air.


LadyStorm
(Weather Guru)
Sat Sep 11 2004 11:44 AM
Re: WV issues

From first hand experience we saw thunderstorms with Charley but not with Frances. There usually aren't too many thunderstorms associated with hurricanes is what I have been told. Does this have to do more with the side of the storm that presents itself to you?


Quote:

Here is a wide angle WV loop. Showing all the systems. The areas inside/ surrounded by the blue lines, are generally Not favored for thunderstorm formation. Due to drier air in them.
http://www.esl.lsu.edu/AOI/AOI4_wv_loop.html




javlin
(Weather Master)
Sat Sep 11 2004 11:54 AM
Re: The Troff

I was looking at our 5 day forcast here not much rain mentioed Tues. mainly and no change in tem. makes me wonder how strong is this troff.It is definitly not the likes of what pulled up Charley we got cool.Then you throw in this recent motion with Ivan being further S?By the way the last 6hrs Ivan moving 14mph ridge is getting stronger.The ULL to the E is pushing the ridge to a SW motion.Ivan will turn just when.
new cor. 8:00am .02'N and .4'W back to 8mph a true WNW movement


Unregistered User
(Unregistered)
Sat Sep 11 2004 12:15 PM
Re: Ivan Likely to Landfall in Jamaica Overnight as a Category 5 Hurricane

You are right about the crews, I am in Tampa and was on 275 N and about 20 Util. trucks went by me in a convoy, not local, out of state. Thanks to everyone for all the knowledge and perspective. Great site!!!!!!!!!!!

MrSpock
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 12:17 PM
Re: The Troff

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/pmdhmd.html

The model discussion notes that the ETA and GFS initialed Ivan too far to the SW. Keep that in mind, when looking at their forecasts. Also, the ETA has been a western outlier the whole way with this one.


PFSThunder
(Weather Watcher)
Sat Sep 11 2004 12:23 PM
Re: The Troff

They just posted a new thread. Pack your bags and move to the front page!!

Wxwatcher2
(Storm Tracker)
Sat Sep 11 2004 12:24 PM
Re: The Troff

Can an Upper Level Low push a High pressure ridge?
I always thought High pressure was the bully in these situations........?



Note: This is NOT an official page. It is run by weather hobbyists and should not be used as a replacement for official sources. 
CFHC's main servers are currently located at Hostdime.com in Orlando, FL.
Image Server Network thanks to Mike Potts and Amazon Web Services. If you have static file hosting space that allows dns aliasing contact us to help out! Some Maps Provided by:
Great thanks to all who donated and everyone who uses the site as well. Site designed for 800x600+ resolution
When in doubt, take the word of the National Hurricane Center