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Saturday - 6PM Update Ophelia just about stationary, however, west northwesterly wind shear and drier air are doing a number on the convection on the west side of the hurricane and could expose the low level center this evening. No change to the NHC Hurricane Watch. ED Saturday - Noon Update Ophelia is a hurricane again and a Hurricane Watch has been issued for portions of the South Carolina and North Carolina coast. See my comments in the Resident Meteorologist Discussions Forum for details. ED Storms From Previous Years (Unisys) Original Post Ophelia has begun to move away from the Florida coastline, to the north. The loop around back to the US is still expected, but is now more likely for the South Carolina coastline, although all areas in the southeast coast will want to watch this system over the next few days. The storm weakened back to a Tropical Storm yesterday evening and is now back to Hurricane Status this evening. Conditions will start to improve over Florida throughout the evening. More to come later. Image courtesy SkeetobiteWeather.com Comments/Feedback on the maps look here. Report conditions from Ophelia in your area In this thread Katrina Discussions are in the Disaster Forum Event Related Links Radars, Satellite Charleston, SC Long Range Radar Jacksonville, FL Long Range Radar Melbourne, FL Long Range Radar Color Sat of Gulf RAMSDIS high speed visible Floater of Storms Spaghetti Style model plots from Colorado State University Forecast Discussions for (Show All Locations): Miami, Key West, Melbourne, Charleston, SC Emergency Management: State of Florida - Floridadisaster.org Georgia Emergency Management South Carolina Emergency Management Maria Animated model plots of Maria Nate Animated model plots of Nate Ophelia Animated model plots of Ophelia Google Map Plot of Ophelia Floater IR Satellite of Ophelia Floater WV Satellite of Ophelia Floater Visible Satellite of Ophelia |
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Just to let everyone know that has been emailing, I'm very very very behind in emails right now, and unfortunately I can't respond to everyone. If you were having issues logging in make sure you read the information on the login page about passwords, spam blockers, and the like. |
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Is that a upper low to the se of ophelia? And will this effect her track any? if so how? |
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I'm sorry, but based on latest satellite loops, I just don't see the northern motion that is supposed to be happening. If anything, I see more of a due east or north of due east moton in the last satellite iamges. I am not one to post frequent and pointless posts here, although I monitor this forum closely, but I simply just don't see the northern component to the NHC's track forecast. Perhaps I am victim of satellite loop hallucination, however I doubt it. I clearly see a more eastern motion than the LATEST NHC motion of NE. What are some other meteoroligical opinions on the more "current" trends? |
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I see the same motion like a E/NE or due E motion mabe the computer model are going to pick on that later. |
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Quote: I see LOTS of dry air intruding on the western side of Ophelia right now. The "hurricane" status may be short lived. |
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I just checked the loops and eiher the red color crayon broke, or the cloud tops are really warming up rapidly. If there was not more to storms than cold cloud tops I would think this is not even a good TS at this point. As for direction, she is seemingly turning in one place and disintegrating or imploding at the same time. It is a head scratcher trying to see what is going on with only the infrared to look at at night. |
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I think what we need to do here is not look at every little satellite loop but look at this storm over a period of time....like where it is relative to this time yesterday. It is now sitting at 30.0 N whereas yesterday, at this time, it was sitting at 28.5N or something like that. It's moving slow and the NHC never said it was going to do anything but move slow. It does have an easterly movement but it is also obviously moving north. Thats why they said movement was north"east''. I really think considering the nature of this storm and the fact that the models have been all over the place, the Nhc has done a really good job calling this one so far. Believe me, they are seeing everything we are seeing and more. |
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From looking at this loop Washington WV it looks as if Ophelia is being pinched between the dry air to the W & NW and the ULL to her southeast....kind of like squeezing a grape between your thumb and forefinger. |
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The latest recon fix puts it at 30.1 N, 77.4 W, which is already further east than it was supposed to get at any point in the forecast track from the last advisory. It would be funny if it just kept going out to sea after all of this, but we probably won't get that lucky. There has been another burst of convection near the center, albeit a relatively small one. Latest recon had it at 983 mb, which is about where it was before. At this stage of its development, it doesn't need really intense convection to maintain itself, but it won't intensify too much without increasing the convection from where it was earlier. |
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Need a reality check here. Is there no real feeling that Ophelia could amount to a serious East Coast threat to someone? Or are people not really paying attention, both here, in the media and in the public? I live in Hilton Head, on the SC coast- a barrier island. Nearly everyone I spoke to today was surprised there even was a storm- the local media is treating it in passing "A tropical system may threaten the low country early to middle of next week. Now to sports . . . " When I last checked, there were like 29 browsers on here- what is there normally when a hurricane is this close to the coast? Anyway, very curious. Our County Emergency Management head has announced that the storm may threaten our area earlier than originally thought, and may be calling a voluntary evacuation tomorrow, with a state-ordered mandatory as early as Sunday. Only place I have "stumbled" across that is on our town newspaper's website. Maybe I worry too much. |
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So right you are...maybe because all eyes are still tuned to Katrinas after effects? Maybe the fact that the intensity & track are downplayed & uncertain? Maybe the it won't/doesn't/hasn't happened in long time mentality? If anything those ideas should have been squashed after last week...even last year..heck who would of thought 5 storms..seems we always forget little Bonnie..would have hit Fl in a span of 7 weeks? I know I'm watching...out of interest as well as safety..especially after this year...these storms have not gone by the book at all...some lessons bear repeating unfortunatly. |
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Looking at the latest wv imagery, it looks like a big part of ophelia has split off and is heading ne. Does anyone else see that and is it possible that the models were picking up on this as the ne movement that she was supposed to take? Because it really looks like she is moving east mostly. Also could a new low form off of the cast off to the Ne? :?: |
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Im on the FL/GA border, can i breath easier tonight? any thoughts? |
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I'm wondering that too, Adam. I'm just down from you in Jacksonville. I'm concerned that it's gone more east than northeast or north-northeast and (according to Deegan) the NHC doesn't seem too concerned with that. I, like others here, have thought all along this would be a FL/GA border or up to Brunswick. I keep expecting the models to start to shift. |
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UNTIL YOU ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF THE CONE YOU SHOULD KEEP AN EYE ON THE STORM! It appears that you are still in the cone of error. You never know! |
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of course, anything is possible! |
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REPEATING THE 11 PM EDT POSITION...30.4 N... 77.0 W. MOVEMENT TOWARD...NORTHEAST NEAR 9 MPH. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS... 75 MPH. MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE... 985 MB. The above is from the 11 pm advisory-- from stationary to 9 mph-- that's trucking along for a storm, isn't it? A question: how far north before the water gets cool enough to really hamper further strengthening? |
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Quote: Well, Maria is trucking off towards Iceland and still has 60mph winds. Ophelia has more issues with wind shear than water temps for a while. |
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For those who forcasted for the storm not to move much further north than 30-31, do you still feel that way? I read that from more than one poster on this site. The forecast made a lot of sense to me. I would love to hear an update from any of you regarding your prediction. I am interest edin learning if you still believe it won't move further north and where you feel it will eventually make landfall. |
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I think people are storm weary to some extent. I know Texas is concentrating on helping out the evacuees and getting the kids into schools. So we are still focused on the aftermath of Katrina. And I think after Katrina Ophelia doesn't seem like such a threat (which she could be down the road). Therein lies the danger. If she strengthens she could become a threat and people may not be ready. I also don't think people pay much attention to TS and Cat 1 hurricanes. They tend to pay more attention if the hurricane becomes major. I think the NHC is doing the best they can in forecasting this storm but she's tricky. No, you don't worry too much. Never hurts to be prepared. |
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i agree with Beaumont, like cat 1 or cat 5...be prepared for anyhtingg....i mean anyhting is possibleee.... |
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If you look at the graph range on Ophelia strength from NHC, they show her everything from a TS through a Cat 4 as possible, with the trend hitting cat 2. She could do anything... I realize those are historically based statisical plots...but still - it's worth watching, especially since the GFDL (18Z run) brings her up to a strong Cat 3 -- 109kts. As said above, expect anything from this storm. |
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This post was sent to the Hurricane Graveyard |
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The latest recon fix indicates an almost due north movement from 30.4 N to 30.8 N along 77.1 W over a two-hour period. It also indicates the pressure has fallen back to 983 mb. |
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Good morning, CFHurricane family. Any mets wish to weigh in on Ophelia's likely track and intensity this am? Beaufort County, SC emergency management is meeting at 9:00 am to make a decision on evacuation. NHC path, I see, is moved north, with the GFDL being a southern outlier. Any thoughts as to how much weight I should put on that model, which seems to be more current, in making my own decision? All thoughts gratefully accepted. Last night, I was strongly leaning toward leaving today (I have elderly inlaws, dogs, etc), but today am leaning toward "hold", since landfall seems to have been pushed back some. Thanks! |
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I have just discovered this site. Great place. However there tends to be too much speculation on what will happen and rarely has any of the speculation come to fruitation. The simplest answer, and the one the NHC puts out but alot tend to ignore, is there is alot of uncertainty, hence the "margin of error or uncertainty". Sometimes things are easier to define , but sometimes they are not. The more we know about something often results in more questions then answers. In this case, even for the experts, there were , and still are more questions then definable answers. All I can suggest to everyone in the cone is to be prepared. I am in that cone, and I do not take it litely, nor do I take the word of "any" forcaster as the word of god. Things change, even as far in as a few hours. This is a fundamental nature of life. I could walk across the street and get hit by a car. No one can predict that with a definative answer. Just be prepared if your in the cone. It is frustrating, however we have no control over that, so it is often best to just check up every few hours and do not become plowed to the screen and worry yourself to death. Just keep an eye on things and be prepared. I make my family prepare and plan way before, that way if the worst case scenerio seems about to happen in our area, we are ready to go. No last minute rush. |
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Quote: I was one of the ones that thought the storm would slowly drift across Florida. However, the trough that came through got stronger and deeper than what I had thought. In Orlando, you can feel the effects of the trough as it is actually cool this morning. As of this time, there's no reason to doubt the reasoning that SC/NC will get hit. Where in that area is still up for discussion and will largely depend on when the storm starts its predicted turn. |
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Quote: I agree. Looking at the VIS imagery, Ophelia is moving exactly on the NHC 5am ET foreacast track - or as exactly on it as an untrained eye can tell. The turn to the West should begin within a few hours, if that situation holds - if it has not already begun. Interesting thing, though.... the forecast calls for a turn from due west to WNW a day or so after the west turn. I feel like it could hit anywhere from Jacksonville north... if it doesn't stall or turn again! |
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I stayed up till after the 5 a.m. NHC update and got back up from a nap about 45 minutes ago. Since then I've been studying the loops, highs & lows, etc. In the wee hours of the morning I had convinced myself that O was moving on out - it looked like she was pressed between two highs and being "spit" northeast, at about 10 miles an hour. Now it looks like O has stalled like they predicted - it hasn't moved much at all since 3 a.m. It's just waiting till the highs open and give it a path out. |
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deleted by Ormond Suzie |
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pressure now down to 976. Looks like she is back to being a cane . |
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The recon plane recently found flight-level winds of 75 knots, but that only corresponds to 60 kt at the surface using the 20% reduction from 850 mb. Unless they find something a little stronger before the next advisory, they may decide to leave it as a tropical storm. I don't think they like to flip flop between listing it as a tropcial storm and hurricane too often. |
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Quote: The difference between a 60kt tropical storm and a 65kt hurricane is really not huge. What's more disconcerting is that it appears on IR and VIS imagery like she's not moving again. |
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There isn't much difference between a strong tropical storm and a weak hurricane, but I know that forecasters like to maintain consistency in their public products if at all possible. The latest recon fix reported 82 knot winds at 988 mb from the dropsonde, which is near the surface. Assuming that they consider that to be representative (and not some sort of small-scale feature), it likely will be a hurricane again. |
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Hurricane Ophelia Forecast/Advisory Number 17 Watches now up at 11 am EDT...1500z...a Hurricane Watch has been issued for the southeast coast of the United States from north of the Savannah River South Carolina northeastward to Cape Lookout North Carolina. Hurricane center located near 31.6n 76.5w at 10/1500z position accurate within 30 nm present movement toward the northeast or 40 degrees at 3 kt estimated minimum central pressure 976 mb |
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And it is a hurricane again, with winds of 70 knots (80 mph). The latest forecast caps the intensity at 75 knots, though, which is down from 85 knots. That seems reasonable... it is certainly possible it could get stronger than 75 knots, but considering the rather unfavorable environment that it is in, forecasting only slight intensification as the most likely scenario is the best idea. |
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The recon flight is now flying at 700 mb and recently found 78 knot flight-level winds, which corresponds which converts to a 70 knot surface wind, which I assume is the basis of the intensity. It'll be interesting what they have to say about the dropsonde winds. |
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nate and maria have finally left us this morning (nate is being classified as a remnant low even though it's still got gale force winds... looks to be in an unrecoverable state, though). that leaves ophelia. ophelia took a northeastward track yesterday that pretty much busted the jacksonville to beaufort solutions. i never pegged a spot, but georgia was on my mind... well, it's the like the song says. anyhow, now the track has run all the way up the coast to georgetown.. but its progress seems to have ended. the track right now seems reasonable, and puts the greatest threat on the georgetown/grand strand area... georgetown and horry counties. the models are by no means clustered, with the gfdl down at the bottom near beaufort.. consistently stronger and further west than the consensus, and the rest strung out between charleston and wilmington. intensity with this one is going to be real nutty, as ophelia has consistently had winds below what the pressure would normally dictate (976 mb is usually paired with 90-100mph winds). it is possible that ophelia's winds will play catch-up like katrina's did, or that the inner core will remain broad and the wind field more expansive and less intense. i'm going to hedge my bets that they will by monday. with the official bringing it in at implied 75-80kt, the nhc is taking the conservative line yet again. whether the gulf stream will allow this remains to be seen, but there is definitely plenty of subsidence and a somewhat sheared outflow pattern to make it so. a lot of the global models are suggesting slight strengthening, which usually translates to some in the real world.. usually more than models project. for that reason, i'm going to peg it as a 2 at landfall, and bias the track a little left... closer to mcclellanville in upper charleston county. anything from a cat 1 to a cat 3 is possible, depending on how ophelia handles subsidence and whether the outflow pattern can ever become dominant over the shear. don't have any classes, just a T.A. responsibility that maybe i can hand off for tuesday. might go to the coast if i can find some others who want to catch ophelia. rest of the basin has the mjo-supressed signature, without a whole lot of convection to go around. whether an mjo wave will move across or pulse and die like the one in august remains to be seen. if it does move, it ought to get here late in the month... and linger to the secondary peak in early/mid october. stuff in the meanwhile should be struggling in the deep tropics, or perhaps an odd system or two will flare in the subtropics out of cut off systems... maybe a pattern pulse system if soi oscillations and strong highs diving into the east can force lower pressures in the western atlantic or caribbean. the pattern right now is one that would be very scary if multiple storms were roaming, as height anomalies in the eastern u.s. are progged to remain above normal... a gulf system right now would also be very likely to hit texas. the flareup we were tracking up from the BOC is too close to land right to do anything... but were anything to fester right now it would spell trouble. HF 1629z10september |
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I don't see any reason that Ophelia will take as hard a left turn as predicted, i am still holding my forecast of a NE South Carolina or SW North Carolina landfall, with 90-100 mph winds. |
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It would be easier for us amateur observers to see what was going on and figure things out if the satellite would stop doing the tango. I am getting calls from family and extended family from the Charleston area and they are not under mandatory evacuations yet but I have been advising them to evacuate now if they are going to need to in the future, because of traffic concerns. My question is that I have been looking at the MSLP loops and I am wondering what is going to keep the center from drifting south again. It looks to me like the pressures to the north are higher than the pressures to the south, hence (big fancy word) the center should be willing to take the easier softer way. Any commentary appreciated. Ignoring it is ok too |
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Well my offical forecast for landfall might be delayed cause the high is orientated more N-S and could drive the system more Sor SW tonight into tomorow then expected. Im not saying this will be outside the models and hit florida, but there is a slight chance this might get pushed far enough back south that it will turn w and threaten NE florida or SE Georgia. That my forecast? Not really, mine is actually further east then the global models.. I see the ridge reforming more over the western atlantic early next week pushing her NNE and possibly threaten the outerbanks and then Long Island and New England. Right now New England is more then 3 days out but landfall looks right between eastern longIsland and the cape by Weds or Thurs. Im on the farthest east of the model consensus but I wouldnt be surprised if they swing around to this. SSW-NNE position of the ridge will push this then another trough will swing into the great lakes the middle of this week ahead. Anyways with the slight thought on Florida-Georgia thing is there is more of a NNE-SSW flow then what the models show and also the upper low should be helping induce a more SSW motion later tonight into Sunday. Will make offical 3 day landfall later tomorrow or Monday unless the treat to the SE increases. |
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2 PM EDT position...31.7 N... 76.2 W. Movement toward...northeast near 3 mph. Maximum sustained winds...80 mph. Minimum central pressure...977 mb. |
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Scott, Don't know about your prog but the latest models at Weather Underground have all swung north and east of the NHC 11 AM forecast path. Be interesting to see the 5 PM update. Is there still a chance this lady will miss the CONUS? Hope so. |
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It defidently could miss. My forcast for landfall is 5 days out so I can change it. NHC changes every 6 hours, I usually like todo 72hr. Anything more then that is speculations. Just like the more s drift tonight and tomorrow. |
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Interesting tidbit from the HPC today: OPHELIA REMAINS A BIG QUESTION MARK... W/TELECONNECTIONS FROM THE POSITIVE ANOMALY ACRS QUEBEC SLIGHTLY FAVORING A NEGATIVE ANOMALY NR THE BAHAMAS...IMPLYING THERE IS A CHANCE OPHELIA COULD CONTINUE TO LINGER/LOOP OFF THE SOUTHEAST OR MID ATL SIMILAR TO DAWN /1972/...DORIA /1967/...AND GINNY /1963/. THIS IDEA IS SHOWN VIVIDLY IN THE 18Z NCEP ENSMEAN...AND TO SOME DEGREE IN THE 00Z NCEP ENSMEAN. FOLLOWED TPC GUIDANCE...AS ALWAYS...BUT IT IS PSBL THAT THE LANDFALL/IMPACTS UPON THE MID ATL AND SOUTHEAST COULD BE DELAYED FROM WHAT IS CURRENTLY SHOWN AND VERY POSSIBLY MUCH FARTHER NORTH AS ALL LATEST MODELS...12Z GFS/CANADIAN/NOGAPS/UKMET AND ECMWF TAKE AIM AT ERN NC BY DAY 4 WED WITH GFDL ALSO SHOWING A STRONG SHIFT NWD... SEE TPC DISCUSSIONS AND WARNINGS. And Conversely very much south as well with the height anomalies. |
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This is what I think too...The NOGAPS, CMC, and GFs have the anticyclonic loop with the turn norhtward and eastward. SC, NC, and NY look like the states that will be effected. I feel the NHC is relying to heavily on the GFDL, but that's just me. |
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Steve, For the heck of it I checked the paths of Dawn, Doria, and Ginny. If Ophelia becomes a contortionist like her three older sisters, by the time she decides where she wants to go, I'll have received my first Social Security check!! Okay by me if she wants to see the Atlantic for a while as long as she only bothers the fishes. |
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Yeah, I agree. The 12Z GFS has her back to about 30N/72W in 8/9 days after visiting near the Jersey shore |
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Interesting tidbit indeed - thanks! I've added a link to the Unisys table of storms from previous years to the General Links at the bottom of the Main Page. I use this link frequently and have been meaning to add it for quite some time. Appreciate the reminder. Cheers, ED |
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can someone PM me with JB's forecast on Ohelia? |
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Been a quiet night on the boards... Ophelia's just sitting there spinning again - stalled. NHC 11pm says is now nearly stationary. Their forcast takes her into the NC coast, but looking at the model graphs they seem to be losing their convergence, with now almost a 180 degree spread in path again...from South Carolina to due eastward. The bulk of the models show Ophelia heading north or northeast now. I think Steve's post (quote of HPC) is very accurate...we have (a) no clue what Ophelia will really do and (b) she's gone loop and stall happy! |
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just looked at NOGAPS models...that kind ofscares me they have it hitting coastal NC going up the coast and making a 2nd landfall where...on the island...should i been worried because someone before said that NHC has been really dependent on NOGAPS lately. |
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I believe it was GuppieGrouper who made reference to Ophelia in Shakespeare's Hamlet a day or so ago. While noodling around in my old college text (hey, I had to do something to kill time before the next model runs), I came across a line from Horatio, Hamlet's close friend, that I thought was appropriate given the way the models are flip-flopping on this storm. Also works for those of us trying to guess her eventual path. "SHE MAY STREW DANGEROUS CONJECTURES IN ILL-BREEDING MINDS." |
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can someone explain why the experts don't think that this ridge, which looks very strong from north to south, will not push "O" to the south with it? Looking at the water vapor images, it looks like the convection to the north of it which is heading south may push "O" to the south also. Looking at the water vapor images what is making them forecast a turn to the west then northwest? I am sooooooooo confused. |
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Here is a link for ya to the latest synopsis! http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-time/atlantic/winds/wg8dlm3.html I agree, why wont it go south, only thing I can figure is that the High to the east will be the dominant steer |
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The latest recon actually shows it south of the previous position, so that's a good question. Why are no models and no experts mentioning a possible southern move? http://www.sfwmd.gov/org/omd/ops/weather/vortex.html |
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I just heard on TWC it may miss the US but may brush the Outer Banks. |
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Quote: Actually the NAM shows a looping track to the south and west, eventually making landfall south of Savannah in about 36 hours: http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/index_m.shtml I think we can discard this solution since the NAM unrealistically weakens the ridge to the southeast of Ophelia (probably because the NAM is a regional model and this ridge is right on the edge of the model domain). The NAM is also quicker in building a slightly stronger 500mb ridge north of Ophelia, and if that part of the forecast verifies, we could start seeing at least some westward component of motion in 18 to 24 hours. |