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Special Tropical Weather Outlook issued for area in the East-Central Atlantic, only with 10% chance for development, not expected to do much.
Days since last H. Landfall - US: Any 239 (Idalia) , Major: 239 (Idalia) Florida - Any: 239 (Idalia) Major: 239 (Idalia)
 


News Talkback >> 2004 News Talkbacks

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Robert
Weather Analyst


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One more Excellent web site [Re: Robert]
      #16366 - Tue Jul 20 2004 03:13 PM

Here is an excellent web site with all the weather observation stations across the Caribbean.
Current and up to date

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/sju/caribm.html


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James88
Weather Master


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Satellite [Re: Robert]
      #16368 - Tue Jul 20 2004 03:48 PM

One of the storm floaters is now over 97L, so we can get a really good look at it. Looks like another blob of convection is flaring up, which is good. As long as it can maintain some convection, I think it still has a chance.

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hurricane_run
Storm Tracker


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Flare up [Re: javlin]
      #16369 - Tue Jul 20 2004 03:52 PM

looks like our wave has had a a flare up
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/float2-ir4-loop.html


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BabyCat at work
Unregistered




Re: Flare up [Re: hurricane_run]
      #16370 - Tue Jul 20 2004 04:02 PM

Certainly didn't expect to see that.

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Rabbit
Weather Master


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Re: Models [Re: javlin]
      #16372 - Tue Jul 20 2004 04:09 PM

NOGAPS has the system off of NOrth Carolina in about 5 days
CMC has it off of South Carolina in 6 days
all others show it in the Western Caribbean at 72 hours as a very weak wave


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rmbjoe1954
Weather Master


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Re: Models [Re: Rabbit]
      #16373 - Tue Jul 20 2004 04:20 PM

It would be nice if 97L holds its own with its journey through the eastern carribean garveyard; but I believe it is moving more NW then W; it may appear that Florida may be in for another soaking rain..

--------------------
________2023 Forecast: 20/10/5________

There is little chance that meteorologists can solve the mysteries of weather until they gain an understanding of the mutual attraction of rain and weekends. ~Arnot Sheppard


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Bobbi
Unregistered




a great wave [Re: Rabbit]
      #16374 - Tue Jul 20 2004 04:20 PM

its been firing up all morning.. if you watch carefully you can watch the center moving along, course thats my opinion cause we dont have a real center set

nice to see the models didn't forget it in the morning


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bobbi
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13.6 64.8?? [Re: Bobbi]
      #16375 - Tue Jul 20 2004 04:28 PM

looks very good on ghcc.. on all 3 sats, which is pretty amazing

rarely do they all agree

and notice the great wording game of NHC "appears"
as we know..appearances aren't everything..


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James88
Weather Master


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Re: 13.6 64.8?? [Re: bobbi]
      #16376 - Tue Jul 20 2004 04:39 PM

The TWO says that upper level winds do not appear favourable for a couple of days, but then as Bobbi pointed out, appearances can be deceiving. To use Claudette as an example again, she formed in an area that was only marginal for development and that wave was bumped up to tropical storm status. I know there were other factors, but that is an example. The wave looks better than it has for quite a few hours, but then, as is common with a system in the early stages of development, it will probably die down and flare up a few times.

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Tropics Guy
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Re: 13.6 64.8?? [Re: James88]
      #16377 - Tue Jul 20 2004 04:52 PM

If it survives the shear until it reaches the central Carib, then it may have a chance, as the shear should lessen somewhat, looks pretty good on Sat now though because of the flareup.

TG

--------------------
Tropical Cyclones: "Mother nature's heat transfer machines"


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scottsvb1
Unregistered




Re: 13.6 64.8?? [Re: Tropics Guy]
      #16378 - Tue Jul 20 2004 05:13 PM

There is still no w wind nor any N wind. The system has plenty or rain and guyst E,SE winds, but no circulation. Pretty much the people in the islands said it best that this is a vigorous tropical wave. The wave will slow down some over the next 2-3 days S of Cuba and near Grand Cayman. By Friday or this weekend we might see this system develop more and move N with the eastern trough reistablishing itself over the eastern U.S. Florida might see widespread flooding if this pans out. scottsvb

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Rob_M
Weather Hobbyist


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Afternoon Discussion [Re: scottsvb1]
      #16381 - Tue Jul 20 2004 07:07 PM

Note: Our forecast products are unofficial. Please read our disclaimer.

IWIC Atlantic Tropical Weather Discussion - 20 July 2004 - 3:00 PM EDT

The strong tropical wave that we have been closely monitoring has passed through the Windward Islands and is currently located in the eastern Caribbean Sea. A weak mid-level circulation is still present, but the low level cloud movement in visible satellite imagery and the most recent QuikSCAT pass both show nothing more than general easterly flow. Furthermore, wind observations in the lower Windward Islands does not indicate even the slightest wind movement from the west, so all of the available data confirms that there is no low level circulation associated with the tropical wave. As far as organization is concerned, we have not seen any improvement in the satellite appearance over the past 24 hours. If anything, the system has become less organized, as there is no longer discernable anticyclonic flow aloft. A rather sharp outflow boundary has developed north and west of the axis, which is disabling ventilation. Convection on the other hand has been persistent. However, it is being blown to the northwest by strong south-westerly shear induced by an upper level low the north. To some extent, the same atmospheric mechanisms shearing the wave are also helping to enhance the convection by creating divergence. To add to the strong shear problems, moderate subsidence is present around the wave. This entire environment is not ideal for a tropical cyclone to form. Given that and the tropical wave's current organization, no development is expected in the near-term. But the system still needs to be watched closely for a few reasons. There are two possible tracks it will take over the next few days. Either one of them could bring the tropical wave into more favorable conditions for development.

The first possible track is through Hispaniola and into the southwestern Atlantic just east of the Bahamas. This movement will probably occur if the wave becomes deep enough to be felt by a strong trough currently exiting the United States eastern seaboard. The trough will erode the western prehiphery of the subtropical ridge, therfore altering the mid-level steering flow in the eastern and central Caribbean Sea to more south-southeasterly. If the wave is deep enough, this would allow for it to escape the Caribbean Sea and get picked up by the trough. This motion is indicated by most of the global models, such as the CMC, NOGAPS, and UKMET. The major problem with this track is that the wave is currently not deep or strong enough to be influenced by something besides the easterly flow.

This is why a second possible track has to be considered. In the second scenario, the tropical wave is pushed further west into the western Caribbean Sea and maybe eventually into the southeastern Gulf of Mexico. This track is likely to happen if the wave remains shallow enough to escape the mid-level south-southeasterly flow in response to the trough. All of the tropical models, including the BAMM, BAMD, and GFDL forecast this movement. Additionally, the ECMWF and now possibly the GFS show a more westward track. The GFS was earlier in agreement with the other global models on the first scenario, but the latest 12Z run actually has the main energy associated with the tropical wave continuing westward after a slight interaction with the trough. It will be interesting to see if the GFS continues to show this in the upcoming runs, but in any case, there currently appears to be more model support for the second possible track than the former.

Putting models aside and focusing back to the current and progged steering currents, we are leaning towards the westward track. While the trough may pull some of the energy associated with the wave, there is no doubt the wave itself will continue westward. As mentioned further above, conditions will not allow any intensification over the next day or so at least, so therefore, it will probably not become any deeper than it is now anytime soon. Even if the wave is more organized, being pulled by the trough means passing through Hispaniola, which will weaken or destroy any low level circulation that is present. Therefore, we could see the wave initially be pulled by the trough only to become more shallow by terrain interaction and once again resume a westward course. In either case, a motion governed by the low-level easterly steering flow is likely, and is what we expect to occur.

With a continued westward track in mind, this means the wave will be located the northwestern Caribbean Sea or near Cuba within the next few days. Around this time, a broad upper level anticyclone is progged to advance southward into the area. The exact positioning will be crucial as to how much shear the wave is exposed to, but the overall idea is that the environment will be at least partially favorable for intensification. Keep in mind there may not be much left of the wave in terms of convection due to the absence of divergence that it is currently experiencing. Any mid-level circulation may be gone as well from the close encounter with the trough. However, with fairly conducive conditions expected in place, slow intensification is a possibility once in the northwestern Caribbean Sea. Again, development is highly unlikely in the near-term, but it is the long-term where things may become a little more interesting. Our current thinking of a westward course raises the possibility of a track into the Gulf of Mexico. It is too soon to say with certainty where the system will move and how strong it will be at that point, but in any case, it is a system that still bears watching. No development is expected at this time, but some slow development cannot be ruled out later on as it moves westward.

Elsewhere, activity behind the wave is also beginning to increase. Nothing shows signs of developing at this time.

--------------------
Rob Mann
IndependentWx.Com


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scottsvb1
Unregistered




Re: Afternoon Discussion [Re: Rob_M]
      #16382 - Tue Jul 20 2004 07:17 PM

Rob you did a great forcast that i couldnt of done better myself. Rob has this right on track with my thinking on earlier posts. Awesome job. scottsvb

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James88
Weather Master


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Re: Afternoon Discussion [Re: Rob_M]
      #16383 - Tue Jul 20 2004 07:17 PM

Interesting. Seems like we may have a ticking timebomb on our hands here. I think that this wave has had the most attention of any system this year. Currently the convective activity is waning, but there looks to be some more about to flare up. Now we just have to play the waiting game. It would be better to have to wait a few days for development than to have none at all.

Meanwhile TS Celia is putting on a show in the E. Pac.

PS. - Great forecast Rob.

Edited by James88 (Tue Jul 20 2004 07:18 PM)


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bobbi
Unregistered




most likely scenario is second.. [Re: Rob_M]
      #16384 - Tue Jul 20 2004 07:26 PM

good analysis.. dont see how this wave is deep enough at this point for anyone to see it going up the East Coast or aiming at S. Florida. IF a storm develops out of this wave it is too far west at this point to think of much else but a GOM storm. And... maybe depending on how the set up to the north plays out.. could be Eastern Gulf but that remains to be seen. First let it play out.

quoting here...well done ..really well said

"In the second scenario, the tropical wave is pushed further west into the western Caribbean Sea and maybe eventually into the southeastern Gulf of Mexico. This track is likely to happen if the wave remains shallow enough to escape the mid-level south-southeasterly flow in response to the trough. All of the tropical models, including the BAMM, BAMD, and GFDL forecast this movement. Additionally, the ECMWF and now possibly the GFS show a more westward track. "


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javlin
Weather Master


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Re: Afternoon Discussion [Re: Rob_M]
      #16385 - Tue Jul 20 2004 07:40 PM

Rob your analysis get to the point where a layman can understand it.I really appreciate that.I would have to say that this system has about 10 more degrees togo before it gets some kind of classifitcation I think.The second model seems to be in the playbook for now.

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Rabbit
Weather Master


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my slightly increased forecast [Re: bobbi]
      #16386 - Tue Jul 20 2004 07:40 PM

I am still a little sceptical that this wave will become anything--the winds are weaker, it is less organized with outflow boundaries racing westward, and it is much flatter on the wind field than 24 hours ago


also, i am going to make a few tweaks to my forecast, including a small increase because I still think that the EP going all of June without a depression is a sign the Atlantic will be active, just as 1997 going all of Aug with no Atlantic systems occured during an active East Pacific season

here is my update:

JUL nothing
AUG 4/3/2
SEP 5/3/2
OCT 4/2/1
NOV 1/1/0
total: 14/9/5
i am forecasting a November system because I think we are due; there has not been one in two or three years


since the forecast is broken down into months, it will be updated monthly

(example: i am forecasting 4 storms by the end of August; if there are 5, the seasonal forecast will be increased to 15)

this is, however, the last forecast where I will alter the forecasts per month, unless we have an extremely quiet peak (such as only having one or two storms by mid-September)

Edited by Rabbit (Tue Jul 20 2004 07:52 PM)


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Rich B
British Meteorologist


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Re: Afternoon Discussion [Re: javlin]
      #16387 - Tue Jul 20 2004 09:31 PM

Hey guys,
models are forecasting two seperate possibilities with this wave, with some taking it NW and others taking it W. Looking at the latest visible loops the wave looks like it may be splitting, with one area of convection to the north and a second area further south, and once again firing. The southernmost section again seems to have some evidence of rotation - possibly mid-level, while the northern area appears to just be heading NW. My personal feeling is that if anything is gonna happen, it will be with the portion of the wave that is further south and appears to have the weak mid-level circulation. Expect this to continue west. The northern portion will likely bring gusty winds and showers to the Gtr Antilles, but i dont see much significant development here at present.

--------------------
Rich B

SkyWarn UK


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Steve
Senior Storm Chaser


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Re: my slightly increased forecast [Re: Rabbit]
      #16388 - Tue Jul 20 2004 09:38 PM

Enjoyed the post Supercane/Rob Mann, it's a lot of common sense stuff, but you hit it all. There is a 3rd possibility. Bastardi mentioned in yesterday's Long Ranger [tm] that the classic "B-North" pattern is setting up. Often that opens up the SE Coast. However, because of a very cold surface high pressure scheduled to be in the Great Lakes, you can't discount anything to its south. He thinks there's an equal possibility that the wave can split with energy ending up off the Carolina Coast and also something in the Gulf with a front expected in the Gulf (again!) by the weekend. Wave energy (if not wave-origin stuff) could then ignite whatever is in those respective areas.

Steve

--------------------
MF'n Super Bowl Champions


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LI Phil
User


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Re: Afternoon Discussion [Re: Rich B]
      #16389 - Tue Jul 20 2004 09:43 PM

Afternoon all. Can't add anything that hasn't already been said. Rob, awesome post! You covered it all and then some.

It would appear the "southerly" (GOM) solution to 97L's future movement is probably the more likely of the two, and it probably portends best for development. If this wave can get into the bathwater that is the Gulf, it could really 'splode!

I will however, take the more northerly solution for now. This entails the risky proposition of getting across Hispaniola, so any LLC that may have developed at that time will be bye-bye. Then through the Bahama's and finally getting sucked up by the predicted trof and taken up the East Coast.

Whether we will ever see Alex out of this, who knows. Probably more likely if the wave takes the southerly track the tropical models are calling for.

In any event, nothing is happening development-wise for at least 24 hours, and maybe more. Dvorak #'s still "too weak."

Cheers,

LI Phil

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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