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Archives 2000s >> 2007 News Talkbacks

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MikeCAdministrator
Admin


Reged: Sun
Posts: 3889
Loc: Orlando, FL 28.49N 81.47W
Wave Near Florida
      #75626 - Wed Jun 27 2007 09:42 PM

There is a Tropical Wave, associated with an upper level trough, to the east of Florida over the Bahamas. It's expected to bring rain, but nothing indicative of sure fire development beyond that yet.

Some models earlier were suggesting development of this system, but have not really persisted it much. It's worth watching being as close as it is, but most likely it will be nothing more than a rain enhancing event for the late week and weekend over South Florida.

If the system were to slow, drift north or away, and persist in the convection, then it becomes more interesting. However, negative factors are the upper atmosphere isn't too great for it now, and an upper low to the west make take some energy away from this system. Convection is good, but not exactly organized.



Chances for Tropical Development of Bahamas wave.
Code:

(forget it) 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (sure thing)
[--*-----------------]



95L (New System links may not yet be updated) Event Related Links


Animated Skeetobite Model Plot of 95L


stormplotthumb_3.gif

SFWMD Model Plot (Animated Model Plot) SFWMD Hurricane Page
Clark Evans Track Model Plot of 95L (Animated!) Model Plots in Google Earth - In Google Maps
Clark Evans Intensity Model Plot of 95L (Animated!)

Clark Evans Track Plot of 95L

Other Model Charts from Clark

Clark Evans Top 10 Analog Storms for 95L
More model runs on from RAL/Jonathan Vigh's page
NRL Info on 95L -- RAMMB Info

Floater Satellite Images: Visible (Loop), IR (Loop), WV (Loop), Dvorak (Loop), AVN (Loop), RGB (Loop), Rainbow (Loop), Funktop (Loop), RB Top Loop)


Radar Loops
Key West, FL Long Range Radar Loop (Latest Static) Base (Static) 1 HR Rainfall (Static) Storm Total Rainfall (Static)
Miami, FL Long Range Radar Loop (Latest Static) Base (Static) 1 HR Rainfall (Static) Storm Total Rainfall (Static)
Tampa Bay/Ruskin, FL Long Range Radar Loop (Latest Static) Base (Static) 1 HR Rainfall (Static) Storm Total Rainfall (Static)
Melbourne, FL Long Range Radar Loop (Latest Static) Base (Static) 1 HR Rainfall (Static) Storm Total Rainfall (Static)
Jaxsonville, FL Long Range Radar Loop (Latest Static) Base (Static) 1 HR Rainfall (Static) Storm Total Rainfall (Static)


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cieldumort
Moderator


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1635
Loc: Austin, Tx 30.40N 97.80W
Re: Wave Near Florida [Re: MikeC]
      #75629 - Thu Jun 28 2007 05:39 AM

This is looking more and more to me that it does have the potential to become rather depression-ish, and possibly slide on into the southern half of Florida as a bona fide feature of some sort, perhaps even a bit more tropical than not, by the end of the weekend. Model run to run consistency among a few in the group do also promote this view. I am not entirely certain that such a feature would actually follow the general N/NNE/NE route, however. One could argue that the steering pattern may want to drift this hypothetical Invest more NW, as long as it develops at least a little bit within the next 24 hours, or so. I would try to elaborate more and be more explanatory, but going on week two of a major rain event in Texas... leaves me just a little brain dead tonight. Hopefully some others who may share a similar opinion, or who perceive a similar possible scenario, will go a little deeper.. as I notice that I'm the first comment on the thread so far.

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ChessieStorm
Weather Watcher


Reged: Thu
Posts: 49
Loc: Spring Hill, Fla. (Hernando C...
Re: Wave Near Florida [Re: MikeC]
      #75631 - Thu Jun 28 2007 07:36 AM

Tampa NWS is saying that these two features (ULL and surface trough) move through and then stall on Friday before moving east again out into the Atlantic.

Hazardous Weather Discussion: THESE FEATURES ARE EXPECTED TO REMAIN IN THE REGION FRIDAY BEFORE MOVING BACK TO THE EAST SATURDAY AGAIN GENERATING SCATTERED TO NUMEROUS SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS. SURFACE HIGH PRESSURE SHOULD MOVE BACK OVER THE REGION LATE THIS WEEKEND INTO NEXT WEEK BRINGING A RETURN TO A MORE TYPICAL SUMMERTIME PATTERN WITH SCATTERED MAINLY AFTERNOON AND EVENING SEA BREEZE THUNDERSTORMS EACH DAY. GUSTY WINDS...DEADLY LIGHTNING AND LOCALLY HEAVY RAINS
WILL BE THE MAIN HAZARDS EXPECTED WITH THE STORMS.

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TAMPA BAY RUSKIN FL
553 AM EDT THU JUN 28 2007


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LoisCane
Veteran Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1236
Loc: South Florida
Getting hard to ignore [Re: ChessieStorm]
      #75633 - Thu Jun 28 2007 10:44 AM

Thanks for that info from tampa.. so they are saying this might retrograde back so to speak across south Florida? This is getting hard to ignore from satellite imagery this morning
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/carb/loop-wv.html

I mean really would like some updated info and wondering what the NHC will say soon at 11

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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Ed in Va
Weather Master


Reged: Fri
Posts: 489
Loc: 36.02N 75.67W
Re: Getting hard to ignore [Re: LoisCane]
      #75635 - Thu Jun 28 2007 11:29 AM

11:30 is out http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATWOAT+shtml/281507.shtml.

Looks too me too close to land for any significant development. Maybe if it gets into the Gulf,
there's a chance.

--------------------
Survived Carol and Edna '54 in Maine. Guess this kind of dates me!


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cieldumort
Moderator


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1635
Loc: Austin, Tx 30.40N 97.80W
Re: Getting hard to ignore [Re: LoisCane]
      #75636 - Thu Jun 28 2007 11:50 AM

Just glancing at the Invest wanna-be and its environment here around the noon hour.. and I'm not really impressed. Pressures are still a bit on the high side, and upper level winds are still kind of detrimental. Should those upper level winds relax a bit more for a respectable length of time - which is possible - I suspect it may have some small window to pull something off. Either way, with the potential for a lot of extra showery/squally weather no matter what happens, I bet it may "feel" depression-ish at times, even if it doesn't become a closed-off surface low with tropical connections.

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LoisCane
Veteran Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1236
Loc: South Florida
Re: Getting hard to ignore [Re: Ed in Va]
      #75637 - Thu Jun 28 2007 11:50 AM

I don't know ED... sort of a small watt green light if you ask me from NHC
"ORGANIZATION AND UPPER-LEVEL WINDS ARE ONLY
MARGINALLY FAVORABLE. THEREFORE DEVELOPMENT...IF ANY...SHOULD BE
SLOW TO OCCUR. "

marginally and therefore qualify a lot but does leave the door open to possible development

watching

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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Robert
Storm Tracker


Reged: Sat
Posts: 278
Loc: Southeast, FL
Re: Wave Near Florida [Re: MikeC]
      #75638 - Thu Jun 28 2007 12:53 PM

East winds in ,miami.lake worth,stuart, up the coast and in west end grand bahama. Here in stuart it started out out light steady rainaround 9:00 am then started heavy downpouring around 10:15 and continued with a lighting storm about 11:00 now its 12:50 and is still downpouring my backyard is flooded the streets are flooded visibility is 200 feet at best when driving your car. It definnetly feals depreshinish though. except the clouds just arent moving like they would with a closed low near by.

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ChessieStorm
Weather Watcher


Reged: Thu
Posts: 49
Loc: Spring Hill, Fla. (Hernando C...
Re: Getting hard to ignore [Re: LoisCane]
      #75639 - Thu Jun 28 2007 01:56 PM

According to the 1 pm Forecast Discussion, the Tampa Mets are forecast this wave to come through and then get caught up in a frontal boundary coming down.

SHORT TERM (TONIGHT - SATURDAY)...UNLIKE YESTERDAY MODELS THIS AFTERNOON
ARE NOW IN SOMEWHAT BETTER AGREEMENT WITH RESPECT TO THE HANDLING OF
THE TROPICAL WAVE OFF THE SOUTHEAST FLORIDA COAST EARLY THIS AFTERNOON
SO WILL USE A BLEND DURING THIS TIME FRAME. BLEND OF NAM/GFS TAKES THE
AFOREMENTIONED TROPICAL WAVE NORTHWEST TONIGHT AND FRIDAY...THEN IT GETS
ABSORBED AND PULLED NORTH AND NORTHEAST INTO A FRONTAL BOUNDARY ACROSS
THE SOUTHEASTERN U.S. LATE SATURDAY INTO SUNDAY. SIMILAR TO YESTERDAY
DEEP LAYERED MOISTURE (PW`S > 2") AND SUFFICIENT INSTABILITY COMBINED
WITH THE TROPICAL WAVE WILL SUPPORT HIGH RAIN CHANCES ACROSS THE FORECAST
AREA TONIGHT (POPS 30-40% RANGE TONIGHT AND 60-70% ON FRIDAY) AND
FRIDAY. IN ADDITION SLOW MOVING STORMS MAY SUPPORT SOME LOCALLY HEAVY
RAIN IN SOME LOCATIONS


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nc_tropical_wx79
Weather Guru


Reged: Fri
Posts: 123
Re: Getting hard to ignore [Re: ChessieStorm]
      #75647 - Thu Jun 28 2007 10:45 PM

The Tropical Wave that is currently bringing weather to FL is finding Upper level conditions remain unfavorable for further development as of right now (around/near FL). A ridge of high pressure developing to the north of the area will keep this tropical wave moving west into the E. GOM. This wave may find more favorable upper level conditions over the central GOM tomorrow and as time goes on.

--------------------
W.D. Duncan


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danielwAdministrator
Moderator


Reged: Wed
Posts: 3502
Loc: Hattiesburg,MS (31.3N 89.3W)
Weather Discussions-excerpts [Re: nc_tropical_wx79]
      #75648 - Fri Jun 29 2007 12:41 AM

I apologize for the length of this post. These excerpts appear to cover both the short term and extended forecasts.
SHORT RANGE FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
302 PM EDT THU JUN 28 2007


VALID 00Z FRI JUN 29 2007 - 12Z SAT JUN 30 2007

...TO THE SOUTH... A COLD LOW INTERACTING WITH THE NORTHERN END OF A TROPICAL WAVE WILL INITIALLY DRIFT WEST AND THEN LINGER ACROSS THE FLORIDA PENINSULA THROUGH SATURDAY. AN INCREDIBLY MOIST LOW-LEVEL
FLOW COUPLED WITH ENHANCED INSTABILITY RELATED TO THIS FEATURE SHOULD TRIGGER MODERATE TO LOCALLY HEAVY RAINFALL.... WITH THE HEAVIEST LIKELY FALLING OVER THE EASTERN HALF OF THE STATE. THE BULK OF THE PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED TO SHIFT NORTH BY EARLY SATURDAY.
Short Term Forecasts

QUANTITATIVE PRECIPITATION FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
605 PM EDT THU JUN 28 2007


FINAL DAY 1...DAY 2 AND DAY 3 QPF DISCUSSION
VALID JUN 29/0000 UTC THRU JUL 02/0000 UTC
DAY 1 (SATURDAY)
...FL...
EASTERLY WAVE MOVING THRU FL HAS USHERED IN A VERY MOIST/TROPICAL AIRMASS WHICH SHOULD SUPPORT WIDESPREAD RW/TRW (SHOWERS AND THUNDERSHOWERS) THRU THE PERIOD. PWS (PRECIPTABLE WATER~available moisture) OVER THE REGION ARE INCREASING TO GREATER THAN TWO INCHES WITH DEEP LAYERED SOUTHEASTERLY FLOW THAT
SHOULD TEND TO FOCUS THE BETTER LIFT ALONG THE (FLORIDA) EAST COAST. MODELS ARE HINTING THAT AN 8H (850mb height-5000ft-mid level)LOW WILL DEVELOP OVER CENTRAL FL. IF THIS OCCURS THE LO LEVEL CONVERGANCE WILL BE FURTHER ENHANCED WITH MORE WIDESPREAD HEAVY RAINFALL. THE HEAVIEST RAINFALL SHOULD BE ALONG THE EAST COAST WHERE CONVERGANCE WILL BE STRONGEST. LOCALLY 2-3 INCH TOTALS ARE POSSIBLE.

DAY 2 (SUNDAY)
FL...
THE NAM APPEARS TO BE AN OUTLIER WITH ITS VERY SLOW NORTHWARD MOVEMENT TO THE MID LEVEL CIRCULATION OVER THE BAHAMAS. THE GFS... CMC... GEM... UKMET AND 0000 UTC ECMWF ALL FAVOR A MORE PROGRESSIVE NEWD MOVEMENT TO ANY MID LEVEL CIRCULATION CENTER. HEAVIEST PRECIPITATION WILL
LIKELY BE TO THE EAST AND NORTHEAST OF THIS SYSTEM... MOSTLY OFF THE NORTHERN FL COAST. THERE MAY...HOWEVER...BE SOME PRECIPITATION OVR NORTHEASTERN FL... WITH THE HEAVIER GFS FAVORED AS THE SLOWER NAM DOES NOT SHOW
ANY PRECIPITATION MOVING NORTHEASTWARD INTO NORTHEASTERN FL.
Quantitative Precipitation Forecast Discussion

TROPICAL DISCUSSION - INTERNATIONAL DESKS
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
237 PM EDT THU JUN 28 2007


DISCUSSION FROM JUN 28/0000 UTC. THE ANALYSIS OF THE 200 HPA (upper level) VELOCITY POTENTIAL ANOMALIES SHOWS A LARGE AREA OF DIVERGENCE ACROSS INDIA/ SOUTHEAST ASIA... WHICH WE EXPECT TO RELOCATE ACROSS THE TROPICAL PACIFIC TO CENTRAL AMERICA/ CARIBBEAN BASIN OVER THE NEXT SEVEN TO TEN DAYS. ONCE IN-PLACE...THIS IS TO REMAIN OVER THE BASIN FOR 14-21 DAYS. THE UPPER CONVERGENT PATTERN OVER CENTRAL AMERICA/ EASTERN PACIFIC CONTINUES TO ERODE...AND WE EXPECT BETTER CONDITIONS FOR ORGANIZED CONVECTION TO GRADUALLY DEVELOP INTO THE WEEKEND.
Caribbean Forecast Discussion


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PCEOC
Registered User


Reged: Mon
Posts: 2
Loc: West Central Floida
Re: Weather Discussions-excerpts [Re: danielw]
      #75652 - Fri Jun 29 2007 09:06 AM

The Navy has the blob off of florida listed as 95L

http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/tc_pages/tc_home.html


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cieldumort
Moderator


Reged: Mon
Posts: 1635
Loc: Austin, Tx 30.40N 97.80W
Re: Weather Discussions-excerpts [Re: PCEOC]
      #75654 - Fri Jun 29 2007 10:26 AM

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/MIAREPRPD.shtml?

0945 AM EDT FRI 29 JUN 2007
SUBJECT: TROPICAL CYCLONE PLAN OF THE DAY (TCPOD)
VALID 30/1100Z JUNE TO 01/1100Z JULY 2007
TCPOD NUMBER.....07-037 AMENDMENT

I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. NEGATIVE RECONNAISSANCE REQUIREMENTS.
2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY: POSSIBLE LOW LEVEL INVEST
NEAR 29.0N 79.0W AT 01/1800Z.....ADDED


There still isn't much meat to this now official Invest. Pressures are generally on the high side, upper-level winds are detrimental, and while the low is now possibly centered at the base of a surface trough which runs through -land- Florida, itself, most of the weather is occurring over the Bahamas and generally east of south Florida. There is quite the - disconnect - with this feature.

Upper-level winds will have to relax still more, and either convection needs to co-locate with the low, or a new low needs to reform situated with the convection, for it to have a shot of anything more than a curiosity.


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Sheeper
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 59
Loc: Vero Beach, FL 27.62N 80.35W
Re: Wave Near Florida [Re: MikeC]
      #75655 - Fri Jun 29 2007 11:25 AM

According to NOAA a Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO) is forming up in the pacific. An MJO is a short-term reversal of trade winds in an area. This occurrence works its way around the globe on periodic time scales. Studies have shown that when this phenomenon reaches the East Pacific that it can enhance tropical cyclone formation in the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico. The current Madden-Julian Oscillation should be reaching the eastern Pacific around the middle of July. So any changes in upper-level wind patterns at that time that would allow for a better chance of tropical storm development. Those tropical waves can have a better chance of development as we move into mid and late July.

--------------------
Emergency Management Consultant & Trainer


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nc_tropical_wx79
Weather Guru


Reged: Fri
Posts: 123
Re: Wave Near Florida [Re: Sheeper]
      #75658 - Fri Jun 29 2007 02:16 PM

It's being reported on Fox News that the cold front thats suppose to sweep 95L out to sea has stalled any truth to this or has it temporarily stalled but will get moving again?

--------------------
W.D. Duncan


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LoisCane
Veteran Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1236
Loc: South Florida
did the front stall? [Re: nc_tropical_wx79]
      #75659 - Fri Jun 29 2007 04:20 PM

id like to hear more on that

2 things hit me

1... is there or isnt there a low center? was there really one in the keys or is it further north? or is there just a general broad area of low pressure

2.. other than that diving, wild ULL in the eastern gulf... and a cold front that may or may not have stalled i get the feeling that steering currents might collapse. are the steering currents weak or pretty definitive?

if so... this will sit a bit and its weak chances for development could go up
i still say it's proximity to florida is a big problem despite the shear from the ULL to its west

did the front stall or not?

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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Ed DunhamAdministrator
Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017)


Reged: Sun
Posts: 2565
Loc: Melbourne, FL
Re: did the front stall? [Re: LoisCane]
      #75660 - Fri Jun 29 2007 07:26 PM

The front did indeed stall, but thats to be expected at this time of year. Its currently stationary in Texas - Oklahoma and northeastward, so no impact on the weak system over south Florida. Still a moderate jet streak across the peninsula into the Bahamas moving most of the convection well east of the low. Bulk of the convection remains offshore to the east of Florida. Lower level steering currents are weak - from the south and southeast.
ED


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nc_tropical_wx79
Weather Guru


Reged: Fri
Posts: 123
Re: did the front stall? [Re: Ed Dunham]
      #75661 - Fri Jun 29 2007 10:56 PM

NWS has the low moving North and also said it's starting to fill so does this mean rain/thunderstorms are starting to build (gaining convection)? And where is the low as of right now?

--------------------
W.D. Duncan


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Ricreig
User


Reged: Sat
Posts: 431
Loc: Orlando, Fl 28.56N 81.27W
Re: did the front stall? [Re: nc_tropical_wx79]
      #75662 - Sat Jun 30 2007 02:15 AM

Quote:

NWS has the low moving North and also said it's starting to fill so does this mean rain/thunderstorms are starting to build (gaining convection)? And where is the low as of right now?


I bring your attention to http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb_latest/GULF_latest.gif This shows the current and projected position of the low. When they say a low is 'filling', they mean it is becoming weaker. The thunderstorms associated with this low are much weaker than they were and it is likely that this will become a non-issue in the near future. Until it *is* gone, it is prudent to continue to watch it simply due to its location, but it is not likely to develop into anything. Additionally, as long as the Low is over land, the engine cannot start. The worst that can happen is an enhancement of normal summertime daily showers but even this seems to be fading. For now, watch but don't expect anything.


The above URL is time sensitive and updated regularly so if you look at it more than a few hours after the time this was originally posted, you will note the low is no longer even depicted and as of this morning, only the original weak tropical wave remains off the SW Fl. coast, and it isn't likely to do much due to proximity to land.


Edited by Ricreig (Sat Jun 30 2007 07:08 AM)


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weather_wise911
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Mon
Posts: 82
Re: did the front stall? [Re: Ricreig]
      #75664 - Sat Jun 30 2007 09:45 AM

Quote:

ELSEWHERE...TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE
NEXT 48 HOURS.





Still using the term "elsewhere..."
Perhaps the NHC isn't ready to let go???


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