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News Talkback >> 2008 Storm Forum

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cieldumort
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Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up
      #80329 - Mon Jul 07 2008 07:24 PM

* Bertha becomes the earliest Major Hurricane since Hurricane Dennis (July. 7, 2005).

* Bertha and Dennis now both tie as the earliest Major Hurricanes on record since Hurricane Audrey (1957).

* Bertha becomes the earliest tropical cyclone to become a hurricane this far east.

* Bertha is upgraded to a Hurricane on the same day as the historic Bertha of 1996 was; however, Bertha 2008 also becomes a major hurricane two days sooner.

* Bertha became the sixth strongest "early season" hurricane on record. (Those forming before August 1st).

* Bertha became a named storm the farthest east of any on record for the months of June and July.

* Bertha became our first Cape Verde tropical cyclone of 2008, and one of the earliest on record.


This is information that I have collected and is accurate to the best of my knowledge, thus far. It may or may not be entirely accurate, and there could also be more I have not listed, and yet more to come.


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HanKFranK
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: cieldumort]
      #80429 - Sun Jul 13 2008 09:15 AM

don't forget to consider those storms in july 1916... they had a real rough july. some years in the 1880s (86?), and then before that outside of the hurdat database (i.e. 1844) had active/early stuff.
HF 1315z13july


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cieldumort
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: HanKFranK]
      #80530 - Tue Jul 15 2008 01:51 AM

Of course, we're really just focusing on satellite-era stuff, as anything before then means that we might just be comparing apples to oranges in terms of technique. Still, all of the above is gathered from sources who have done well to take into account the known cyclones in the data prior to satellites.

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cieldumort
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: cieldumort]
      #80532 - Tue Jul 15 2008 01:55 AM

A few more that have come to light

* Easternmost forming "early season" major hurricane at 52.1°W (Those forming prior to August.)

* Unusually large 90 mile-wide eye (Possibly a new record in the Atlantic... certainly a rarity).


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cieldumort
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: cieldumort]
      #80561 - Tue Jul 15 2008 06:53 PM

From Bertha Discussion #51 TPC/NHC July 15, 2008
Quote:



TROPICAL STORM BERTHA DISCUSSION NUMBER 51
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL022008
500 PM EDT TUE JUL 15 2008

BERTHA IS NOW THE LONGEST-LIVED JULY TROPICAL STORM IN ATLANTIC
HISTORY...WITH 12.5 DAYS AS A TROPICAL STORM OR GREATER. THIS
ECLIPSES THE PREVIOUS RECORD OF 12.25 DAYS OCCURRING IN 1916 FROM
STORM #2.




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cieldumort
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: cieldumort]
      #80632 - Thu Jul 17 2008 07:47 PM

*Bertha is now the longest-lived July hurricane on record, and also the longest-lived hurricane so early in the season, having eclipsed Hurricane Emily (2005), which held the old record of 7 days.



Edited by cieldumort (Sat Jul 19 2008 04:24 PM)


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cieldumort
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: cieldumort]
      #80863 - Mon Jul 21 2008 01:35 PM

According to research by Margie Kieper as reported by Dr. Jeff Masters in Wunderground:

Quote:

July 19, 2008, marked the first time on record that three July tropical storms were active on the same day in the Atlantic. Bertha, Cristobal, and Dolly were all tropical storms yesterday. Thanks to Margie Kieper for checking on this stat for me.




In the interest of accuracy, on this I do need to point out 2 small disclaimers

First - I am guessing that Dr. Masters meant to type July 20, 2008, as on July 19, 2008 now Tropical Storm Dolly had yet to be a numbered tropical depression, let alone named storm.

Second - Bertha was barely hanging on to enough tropical characteristics on the morning of July (20) for the National Hurricane Center to continue advisories on her as a tropical cyclone.

However, disclaimers-aside, the rest of these numbers seem solid. With the inclusion of Dolly, Cristobal and still-tropical cyclone Bertha, July (20) 2008 probably marked the first July day since record keeping began that three July tropical storms were active on the same date. A mighty impressive feat for this season, and surely yet another in the now long list of feathers in Bertha's cap!


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Ed DunhamAdministrator
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: cieldumort]
      #80877 - Mon Jul 21 2008 08:12 PM

There is no doubt in my mind that the statistic is accurate - and you are correct, the date was (or should have been) July 20th. I've always found it interesting that data records like this are linked to bulletins issued by a particular agency (eons ago it was the U.S. Weather Bureau) on a scheduled timeframe which has nothing to do with the actual meteorological event. The other side of that coin is that the intent of the bulletin has nothing to do with meteorological records.

There is also a bias toward the start of an event, but not the end of that event. Although not the case with Dolly, the use of a Special Tropical Disturbance Statement will often highlight the beginning of a Tropical Depression (advisories will be initiated at 11am), but no similar bulletin will be issued when a tropical cyclone becomes extratropical - it is simply noted on the final 6-hour advisory.

There is some interesting evidence though that supports Invest 94L as a Tropical Storm a full 12 hours before it officially became 'Dolly". The Invest 94L Model Input bulletin (issued by NHC) had the sustained winds at 35 knots at 20/06Z and 40 knots at 20/12Z. While it certainly takes more than wind speed alone to determine the formation of a Tropical Depression, it is also a no-brainer to realize that Invest 94L must have reached Tropical Depression status (meteorologically) at some point before it was recognized as a Tropical Storm. The lack of any official recognition (bulletin) of that change in the status of 94L doesn't change the recognition that 94L became a tropical cyclone at some point before Bertha became an extratropical one.

Regarding three simultaneous tropical cyclones in July, one other date came close - July 22, 1966. 'Celia' became extratropical on July 21st at 18Z and was still extratropical on July 22nd at 06Z. 'Ella' became a Tropical Depression on July 22nd at 12Z and 'Dorothy' became a Tropical Depression on July 22nd at 18Z - close, but not quite there.
Cheers,
ED


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Storm Hunter
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: Ed Dunham]
      #80893 - Tue Jul 22 2008 02:14 AM

for those interested... here is what Bertha looked like from inside the storm


http://www.wunderground.com/blog/LRandyB/show.html

--------------------
www.Stormhunter7.com ***see my flight into Hurricane Ike ***
Wx Data: KFLPANAM23 / CW8771
2012== 23/10/9/5 sys/strms/hurr/majh



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cieldumort
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: Ed Dunham]
      #80923 - Wed Jul 23 2008 12:37 AM



Quote:

Regarding three simultaneous tropical cyclones in July, one other date came close - July 22, 1966. 'Celia' became extratropical on July 21st at 18Z and was still extratropical on July 22nd at 06Z. 'Ella' became a Tropical Depression on July 22nd at 12Z and 'Dorothy' became a Tropical Depression on July 22nd at 18Z - close, but not quite there.




This impresses me all the more that over 40 years have passed since even a runner-up to the 2008 trios' show stopper.

It will be interesting to see if any time is added retroactively to Dolly's record. I think that a case might even further be made that she was briefly a depression way out in the CATL, before weakening back into an open wave.


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cieldumort
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Re: Historic Bertha Stats Adding Up [Re: cieldumort]
      #80997 - Sun Jul 27 2008 02:32 AM

Late Addition:

*Bertha also became the fourth longest-lived named storm since 1950 to have formed in -any- month - behind only Ginger (1971) 21.25 Named Storm Days, Carrie (1957) 19.50 NSD & Alberto (2000) 19.25 NSD.


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