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General Discussion >> Site Updates, Suggestions and Questions

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ftlaudbob
Storm Chaser


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Is this site getting to strict?
      #74859 - Thu May 17 2007 02:50 PM

I know there has to be guidlines,But maybe you have gone over the top.Anyone feel the same?Don't get me wrong it is a great site and I don't mean any disrespect,just my feeling.It's getting a little complicated.

--------------------

Survived: 10 hurricanes in Rhode Island,Florida and the Yucatan of Mexico .


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MikeCAdministrator
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: ftlaudbob]
      #74860 - Thu May 17 2007 03:05 PM

Yep, working on this. Most of it is intended for when things get busy with a landfalling storm.

We're going to move things around to where they need to be, but be a little nicer how we do it..


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scottsvb
Weather Master


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: MikeC]
      #74861 - Thu May 17 2007 03:22 PM

I will do whatever the admins want....but its alot easier to just keep everything on 1 page..especially for new users who just want to come on and see data and ideas instead of being confused which forum to go to. It was alot easier a few years ago.

My suggestion is we have other forums...for other storms...thats it.. I would do aways with a forecast lounge cause many new people wont understand or know to use that. Especially 1st or 2nd time lookers. Other forums should be if we have mulitple storms only. Just a suggestion.


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Lamar-Plant City
Storm Tracker


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: scottsvb]
      #74862 - Thu May 17 2007 03:46 PM

Just to put my 2 cents in as a newbie here....this site has the most complicated message board I have ever encountered. I post on several boards and this one also has by far the most restrictions about where stuff gets posted. PLUS I think the 'powers-that-be' are a little bit too 'hands-on' with moving things around. Threads in message boards tend to wander....it isn't a crime and sometimes it leads to the best discussions. Simplification would help.....there are just too many forums here and it can be quite daunting for a newcomer which then can discourage posting which is not what the board is for, right? I still really enjoy coming here, but finding what I am interested in can be a struggle.

--------------------
If you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes...
2023 Season Prediction: 17/6/2


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danielwAdministrator
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Lamar-Plant City]
      #74867 - Thu May 17 2007 08:54 PM

I too get confused at times.

I find it easier to login. Click on Forums. And scroll to the bottom of the page.
There are 3 options there.
Last 24 hours.
Last 48 hours.
Last 7 days.

The "Last 24 hours" will give you the current posts. And their thread location.

Easiest way for me to watch the board is to right click and "open in new window", the 2 most used threads.

That makes it easy for me to switch discussion modes. Although my brain often doesn't switch!
It's easy to post on the Wrong thread using that method. It might be better to read in that mode. Then close the thread that you don't want to post to.

When the board gets really busy with a landfalling storm or near landfall I may have 3 windows with flhurricane on them. And my data source windows open or minimized.

My thoughts... for what they are worth

edit: Note to all: Please limit graphics to " 600 pixels horizontal and 500 pixels vertical". In consideration of dialup users and those with small display monitors.

http://flhurricane.com/cyclone/faq.php#rules

Edited by danielw (Thu May 17 2007 09:08 PM)


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madmumbler
Storm Tracker


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: danielw]
      #74981 - Sat May 26 2007 02:49 PM

I managed to make the graveyard this year as the first post, even though it was a slow period. *LOL* (Do I get a cookie or something for that, btw? *LOL*)

Here's my .02 on the organzation thread.

I think that each active storm, from the time it's an invest, should get it's own ...okay, I use SMF so I'm going to use those terms -- should get it's own "board." Then you can have an "official" front page topic in that board, keep that on-topic, and let people go to town in the rest of that storm's "board."

Have a "general" weather/storm board.

Then have boards for EPac, etc.

Have a board for totally off-topic stuff.

Have an "official" CFHC board.

So it would look like this:

1) "Official" CFHC board ------>FAQs, rules, etc. (This should be at the top so people can find it -- most posts can be locked, maybe have one or two unlocked for questions, comments, etc.)
2) Current storms forum -------> storm boards ----->main front page thread stickied (strict on-topic) / user-posted topics (varying ot thresh holds) -- and each storm forum can be "locked" for read-only after the NHC stops issuing notices on it.
3) Other weather basins ------->by location ------> threads
4) General weather board
5) OT board

That's my .02

People won't read rules if they're at the bottom. If they have to see the site rules at the top, they're more likely to view and read them.

I like the site, although I do have to agree sometimes some mods are totally strict without apparent rhyme or reason, while others seem to let stuff wander longer. If there was more consistency it would be appreciated.

With a system like this, you could basically moderate the one (hopefully only one at a time!!!) active storm forum, and the rest rely more upon user reports of "bad" posts. It would simplify your work and keep related posts in the same area.

For really catastrophic storms like Katrina where the discussions went on far past the active life of the storm, you could lock down most of the forum and leave a few threads open, prevent new topics from being posted, etc.

The current system makes a lot of work for the moderators. You don't need to have separate forums for every ot topic. It makes it harder for users to find stuff, and it also makes more work for y'all to have to police it all. Direct people to the search function.

Most people, I'm sure, are here for current storm updates anyway. Do you have a way of tracking usage by topic/forum? If you do, see where your current stats are heaviest, and that will give you a road map to format the forum.

I would do it sooner than later though if you plan on making changes. *LOL*

--------------------
Lesli in SWFL.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

Edited by madmumbler (Sat May 26 2007 05:53 PM)


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audienceofone
Verified CFHC User


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: madmumbler]
      #74991 - Sat May 26 2007 07:56 PM

{quote}
With a system like this, you could basically moderate the one (hopefully only one at a time!!!) active storm forum, and the rest rely more upon user reports of "bad" posts. It would simplify your work and keep related posts in the same area.

The current system makes a lot of work for the moderators. You don't need to have separate forums for every ot topic. It makes it harder for users to find stuff, and it also makes more work for y'all to have to police it all. Direct people to the search function.
{quote}

I agree with this. I've been in a lot of boards and, although I haven't posted much on here, I've certainly read and learned much and that's why discussion is good. As long as people aren't discussing baseball and politics, I think people should be allowed to talk. One well moderated forum for an active storm is necessary and what most people are looking for. Having a completely different forum for every single topic is quite an excess of energy for mods and space for the site. Just one guy's opinion. (other than the guy I quoted) ☺

--------------------
"I can see from your zombie stare that you don't understand technical talk. Let me try it in a language I call, 'Liberal Arts Major.' It's blue."

2007 forecast as of 5-1-07, 16/9/5


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ltpat228
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Lamar-Plant City]
      #75003 - Sun May 27 2007 02:01 PM

Quote:

....this site has the most complicated message board I have ever encountered. I post on several boards and this one also has by far the most restrictions about where stuff gets posted. PLUS I think the 'powers-that-be' are a little bit too 'hands-on' with moving things around. Simplification would help.....there are just too many forums here and it can be quite daunting for a newcomer which then can discourage posting which is not what the board is for, right?




Thank you SO much for bringing this up!
And CFHC...thank YOU guys for permiting this particular topic to remain easily identifiable and intact.

I am a simple woman who does not know squat about weather nor the makings of hurricanes. All I want is enough understandable information enabling me to protect my family.

I've been a member of this site for 18 months and frankly, am afraid to post.
Many of my posts have been sent to the grave yard because one of the "mods" thinks I am being sarcastic.
I am not sarcastic.
I am to the point.

Like I'm telling you...I am an average 53 year old Gramma born, raised and still living on the east coast of Florida who just wants basic info.
I realize some of my comments/questions may come across curt...and assuredly, that is not my intention. Some times when reading someone's post, a question will arise in my head...so instead of me posting a "one liner" because, as I understand this site's rules...I guess we have to say more than 1 line at at time?
So what works for me is to PM the poster.
I have written far more PMs that I have posted because I am fearful I will get in to trouble on this site..

Yes! I am grateful for this site and the extremely diligent and hard-working people who help keep this site on the Net.

Again CFHC - keep up the great work!


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Ricreig
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: ltpat228]
      #75004 - Sun May 27 2007 03:57 PM

Quote:

I realize some of my comments/questions may come across curt...and assuredly, that is not my intention. Some times when reading someone's post, a question will arise in my head...so instead of me posting a "one liner" because, as I understand this site's rules...I guess we have to say more than 1 line at at time?


I understand the desire to limit a lot of arcane and unnecessary one-liners that say nothing in an attempt to limit bandwidth during times of high usage. However, sometimes in one line or sentence very pertinent and often potentially important information or questions can be conveyed that don't *need* a lot of 'fluff' just to make multiple lines of text to satiate a moderators need to wield a big stick. By far and large the moderation is 'moderate' here but occasionally I do think some of the moderators forget the intent of the moderaters' hat and capricious knife wielding does occur. I really do think there should be many fewer topics, one main one dealing with the active storm and one or maybe a couple for everything else not directly dealing with the active topic which can be locked when it is no longer appropriate or needed. In general though, this is still the best place to come short of being a fly on the wall at the NHC during a storm.

--------------------
Richard
A forecast is NOT a promise!


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cieldumort
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Ricreig]
      #75005 - Sun May 27 2007 05:06 PM

Here's another point of view, however: Is this site not strict enough?

It cuts both ways, really. On the one hand, I -really- think that the "rules" and FAQs should be far more accessible and obvious to visitors and members who may not yet be (usually aren't) at all familiar with how to navigate this site, and what the protocols are. And I do agree wholeheartedly that there are appropriate times and places for one-liners.

On the other hand, I appreciate that having my tropical cyclone tracking and discussing here usually avoids the jungle of useless information, agency bashing, name-calling, saber rattling, add nausea, that some other sites have become famous for as the result of tepid moderation, and loose formats. And, I also feel that most, not all, but most - of the one-line responses are best left to PM, primarily because it's imperative that as a season gets busy the boards remain uncluttered and focused.

I am not here to read through 843 posts per thread where 90% are "I agree!".. "Great job!" or conversely bashing of the last poster with insults such as "there goes that global warming nut talking about SSTs again!" or scrolling past big pictures of some political figure touring some hurricane-ravaged county. Etc. Etc. Etc. I really think that people who come to sites looking for something equivalent to a chat room should.... go hop in a chat room somewhere, instead. Nothing wrong with weather chat rooms. Flhurricane just isn't one of them.

Having said all that, I have been guilty of doing those very things, myself. Without having mods to remind us all the reason why we are here it is easy for many of us, myself included, to drift off into unhelpful digressions of many possible sorts.

As for the forums - It is my opinion that they are easy enough to navigate, once one takes a few moments to look them over thoroughly and figure out what -probably- best goes where, and what -probably- has topics one wants to read and/or discuss more about. I would really hate to see the existing forums and threads disappear simply because some might find it easier to have just one board active on just one storm at a time. Not even going into the "What then constitutes a storm? ie: Invest? TD? Close to Florida? Within 300 nm of U.S? Only tropical? Only some subtropical?" .. the idea of limiting discussions -only or primarily- to "active storms" seems far, far too focused, and cuts out many potential opportunities to learn about cyclogenesis, forecasting methodologies, prior seasons, historic seasons, other basins, etc.


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Ronn
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: cieldumort]
      #75006 - Sun May 27 2007 06:50 PM

Quote:

Here's another point of view, however: Is this site not strict enough?




I appreciate the moderating on this site because it eliminates much of the unnecessary and frivolous babble found on most other sites. The discussions here remain focused and the moderators are quick to dispose of malicious content. I'm sure that the moderating can comes off as a little insensitive and over-controlling sometimes, but this is something I can live with in order to maintain the quality of discussion here. This is by far the best hurricane forum on the Internet, and a big reason for this is the moderating. Some people just need to learn to follow the site's protocol, because it does work for the best.

As for the large number of forums, I don't see how that can be avoided; it is a necessary response to this site's tremendous growth over the past several years. The subforums help me locate discussions on specific topics without having to navigate through endless pages of unrelated discussions.


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danielwAdministrator
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Ronn]
      #75009 - Sun May 27 2007 08:39 PM

Wow, You guys certainly have opened my eyes to a few things.
I haven't spoken with the other Mods or Admins... So I'm an outlier here.

If you have a One liner that You need to post...then copy and paste.
That makes it 2 lines. And also an attention getter.

I have found the fastest way to stay on top of the whole board is to scroll down on the Forum page and select
"Last 24 hours" Pick the thread or Forum you want to read and right click it to "open in new window".

Now you may read on this second page... and keep up with the new posts by refreshing the first page or window.

Thanks for the tips.


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Lamar-Plant City
Storm Tracker


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: danielw]
      #75012 - Mon May 28 2007 12:07 AM

I know I already posted my 2 cents, but I also feel the need to say this: I have posted on message boards for 6-8 years and had only had ONE post removed (they are all moderated) before joining this site and I must admit, the content of that post was borderline. Since joining here I have had 2 posts removed (that I know about) and for the life of me, I can't figure out why they were taken off. Perhaps it would be a nice courtesy for a moderator to PM the poster if their post is removed (unless it is obvious, but there are so many rules here....) just letting them know why, so they don't do the same thing again. It can be very frustrating to take the time to post and have them removed. Too much of that runs toward heavy-handedness and will discourage people from posting here as was mentioned by someone above. I thought one of the purposes of this message board was to encourage discussion and information exchange betweem people with an interest in weather and hurricanes. If it is NOT, please let me know and I will be quiet and resign myself to being only a 'fly on the wall' again at this site.

--------------------
If you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes...
2023 Season Prediction: 17/6/2


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Storm Cooper
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Lamar-Plant City]
      #75013 - Mon May 28 2007 12:43 AM

I have read this Forum all day and have kept myself from replying. Well, I am going to reply now. I will try to PM a member before I take any action. I will at times PM that member again regarding the issue. Reply or not.... the Rules are rather simple ...if one can not adhere to them then, then find another site that suites your posting routine. The Mods and Admin do not try to single anyone out... across the board we try to be objective as we can. When you go to change " Your settings"... click on the Rules and just read them.... they are right there along with your other features.

--------------------
Hurricane Season 2017 13/7/1


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madmumbler
Storm Tracker


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: audienceofone]
      #75019 - Mon May 28 2007 01:04 PM

Quote:

One well moderated forum for an active storm is necessary and what most people are looking for. Having a completely different forum for every single topic is quite an excess of energy for mods and space for the site. Just one guy's opinion. (other than the guy I quoted) ☺




Except that I'm a girl. *LOL*

I run several different sites - not as busy as this one gets in season, to be sure. But I've found overall, the less you moderate, the more people self-moderate. But there seems to be a perceived inconsistency in the application of strictness.

I definitely think strict is good for active storm forums. But the rest? Encourage people to use the "report this post" button. I know I've used it. But maybe just delete posts and get rid of the graveyard instead of making a big deal about it? Sort of feels like being in grade school, and I'm sure that the public mention of it really irritates some people more than if their post had just been deleted without incident and no one else would have been the wiser.

Just my .02.

--------------------
Lesli in SWFL.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.


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madmumbler
Storm Tracker


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Ricreig]
      #75020 - Mon May 28 2007 01:09 PM

Quote:

By far and large the moderation is 'moderate' here but occasionally I do think some of the moderators forget the intent of the moderaters' hat and capricious knife wielding does occur. I really do think there should be many fewer topics, one main one dealing with the active storm and one or maybe a couple for everything else not directly dealing with the active topic which can be locked when it is no longer appropriate or needed. In general though, this is still the best place to come short of being a fly on the wall at the NHC during a storm.




I agree with all of this.

And I also agree this is definitely the best place to get the most accurate information. (Mileage may vary, see the NHC or local EOC for information, yadda yadda, etc. *LOL*)

I am VERY glad this forum is here. And please don't misinterpret anything I say to be knocking the forum or the moderators. I know personally how difficult it is to moderate a site. And you will never please everyone. It's like Star Trek -- the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. And there's been times on some of the email lists I still run in addition to the forum sites where I've locked down the list to full moderated status to stop a flame war in its tracks. (Which ticked everyone off, but oh well.)

Part of me wishes everyone knew about this site, and part of me hopes they don't so it doesn't get slammed. *LOL*

--------------------
Lesli in SWFL.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.


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Ed DunhamAdministrator
Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017)


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: MikeC]
      #75025 - Mon May 28 2007 06:31 PM

I realize that some of you will find this hard to believe, but because of automated moderation techniques, the site is actually less strict than it was a year ago - and Mike is considering additional tools to improve feedback to you when something is shuffled around the site to a more appropriate location. Have you noticed the lack of spam on this site? Sometimes something will still slip through, but its a rare event now thanks to some powerful moderation tools. Sometimes our efforts to improve the site are not always apparent to the casual User.

Recently I shared some of my thoughts with the other site officials and I see no reason why these cannot be shared with you. Don't be offended if you happen to 'recognize' yourself. It is not my intent to 'slam' anybody - it is simply to share information and provide you with some things to evaluate:

"Today I went back and read 5 years worth of incoming PMs and for every complaint there was someone who was grateful that we haven't allowed the site to go downhill with garbage posts. We now have 4000 registered Users although nowhere near that number that are really active posters. Some folks haven't visited the site in years, but thats quite normal - as new members join, others lose interest and drop out.

In a large population of Users there will always be a 'fringe' group that will always consider their post to be the most important and want their post right at the top of the action - and they will pay no attention to the rules, no matter how strict or how lax those rules are. In business, 'management by consensus' ultimately produces a product of inferior quality. If you bend to every whim, the chances for success are slim. For an effort to be successful, somebody has to take the lead and set the tone, i.e., establish the rules of engagement and make sure that they are followed. Its not much different here. This is Mike's 'business' and he sets the tone for the site and we attempt to keep everybody that visits the site on an equal and fair footing - and we do that by enforcing his rules. So far it seems to have worked rather well. We still grow every year and the site is respected and appreciated by almost everyone (novice and professional).

I find it interesting that unregistered Users are often more familiar with all of the various aspects of the site than the registered Users are. If you want to check that for yourself, just check the 'Who's Online.

That same 'fringe' element wants a free-for-all anything goes chat - which is the ultimate downfall of formerly good sites. CFHC is a 'mind your manners' site - rather rare on the internet these days.

It is a tough site to moderate because good manners seem to be in decline. I'll admit that I'm rather strict, but I don't mind being the 'bad' guy - weathermen tend to have a tough skin - I think that its called 'survival' .

Regarding the so-called complexity of the site, many of the newer Forums were started because of requests from the User community. Some were started in order to clear up the mixed bag of posts on the Main Page. Sometimes the changes worked and sometimes they really didn't - and you'll always have to contend with that 'fringe' element - and outright crackpots during the busiest times (which will always be a Moderator nightmare)."

Some specific feedback:
For Lesli - I concur regarding the Graveyard - my personal preference is to simply delete unwarranted posts and move on - but you'd be amazed (well maybe not) at how many PMs I get from someone wondering what happened to their 'perfectly good post'. If I have time, I'll send an explanation but if I don't, don't take it personal, because it isn't.

For Lamar-Plant City: You have made 32 posts since joining the site around the first of May. None of them have been deleted, although a few of them may have been relocated to a more suitable Forum. Hit the 'SEARCH' button and plug in your User name and you should be able to find them all.

For a few of you: Note that not all one-liners are deleted. If it contains information useful to others, the Mods will usually leave it alone. However, if it says something like "It seems to be moving southwest in the past hour", you can probably kiss it goodbye. Hurricanes often 'wobble' along on their path over several hours, so a one-hour movement can be misleading to other readers - and please remember that this is not a 'chat room' - it is a Forum oriented site.

Some 'Don'ts':
You can disagree with another posters rationale (by stating why you disagree) but you can't 'slam' the poster.

If you 'just know' that a post is going to be moved, don't reply to it. Instead, reply to the post prior to it (or to the leadoff post in the thread). If you reply to the off-topic post, your post is going to go off to never-never land with it.

Don't mix and match the comments in your post. Off-topic material will get stripped from the post. While discussing a tropical cyclone, the weather during your recent vacation is probably not of much interest to most viewers.

Don't try to turn every cloud puff in the Atlantic into a Cat III Hurricane. Wave mongering is frowned upon - remember, only about one in ten easterly waves develop into a tropical cyclone. Based on posts from past seasons, some of you have anticipated over 50 storms in a season - a little self-discipline goes a long way. Wait and see how the situation is developing and don't get too hung up on model projections - for a new expected system the models can also (depending on the model) have a reliability of about one in ten.

Some 'Do's':
Please use the PM capability to thank someone for their post or their help in answering a question.

Do attempt to put your post in the proper Forum. Read the various Forum Descriptions before you start and you'll probably identify the correct place to put your comments.

Do attempt to keep your post 'on-topic' - it helps to maintain the continuity of the thread that you are posting in.

Do read and follow the site rules and respect the guidance from the Moderators.

Finally, thank you for all of your inputs - all of them are appreciated, both pro and con. Remember that all of the Mods are volunteers and that your help will allow them to enjoy this site as well.
Cheers,
ED


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Zeusdog
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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Ed Dunham]
      #75027 - Mon May 28 2007 07:39 PM

I have been visiting this site for about 2 1/2 years now. I never post as I am too new to this to have much to offer BUT the info I have received from this site is great. I have visited a few others which seem to often ramble on and on about nothing as well as argue with others for pages and pages. If I want to listen to people argue I have 2 daughters that can supply me with that. I enjoy this site and it's flow of information as I am learning more each day - and the group of mature people that seem to post here over other sites. I personally do not find it hard to look for the topic I am interested in and rather prefer the way it is set up so I don't have to go thru a bunch of garbage before I find what I am interested in. Keep up the good work and Thanks!

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ltpat228
Storm Tracker


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Zeusdog]
      #75029 - Mon May 28 2007 09:41 PM

Quote:

I have been visiting this site for about 2 1/2 years now.




Welcome to CFHC!

After having watched this site for all those years, I see you finally decided to become a registered user just this afternoon.
And it's great to see you posting so quickly after you joined!

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask any one of us...and, have a safe hurricane season in TX.


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Ed DunhamAdministrator
Former Meteorologist & CFHC Forum Moderator (Ed Passed Away on May 14, 2017)


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Re: Is this site getting to strict? [Re: Ed Dunham]
      #75036 - Tue May 29 2007 01:26 PM

The thread seems to have made its collective points and served its purpose (and its drifting off-topic), so its time to lock it down.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
ED


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