Current Radar or Satellite Image

Flhurricane.com - Central Florida Hurricane Center - Tracking Storms since 1995Hurricanes Without the Hype! Since 1995


The Atlantic is quiet
Days since last H. Landfall - US: Any 43 (Milton) , Major: 43 (Milton) Florida - Any: 43 (Milton) Major: 43 (Milton)
 


Off-Topic >> Everything and Nothing

Pages: 1
Terra
Storm Tracker


Reged:
Posts: 286
Loc: Kingwood, Texas
Nature Global Warming Paper?
      #46533 - Thu Aug 04 2005 07:44 PM

I read Clak's reponse to some post and I am not sure what the original post was (see below for Clark's response). Anyway, I am interested in reading the Nature article if anyone can send me the .pdf (I don't have access to Nature anymore). Not that I'd disagree with Chris Landsea (mostly because of his cool name) or Clark, but I'm always interested in global warming papers that get published in Nature, since it is so difficult to get published there.

Clark's post:
* Not going to discuss the Kerry Emanuel article in Nature about storm intensity and global warming other than to say that there are limitations within the study that need to be corrected for and that, once again, Chris Landsea's comments are the ones best suited for the task.

--------------------
Terra Dassau Cahill


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
B.C.Francis
Storm Tracker


Reged:
Posts: 331
Loc: Indiatlantic Florida
Re: Nature Global Warming Paper? [Re: Terra]
      #46546 - Thu Aug 04 2005 08:53 PM

I think what your looking for is on her home page.....Go to publications.....All the way to the bottom.......Weatherchef....... web page

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clark
Meteorologist


Reged:
Posts: 1710
Loc:
Re: Nature Global Warming Paper? [Re: Terra]
      #46578 - Fri Aug 05 2005 01:06 AM

Terra -- I posted it mainly to diffuse anything before it got started, since it is such a hot-button topic. Thought I had seen something while skimming through the thread as well, but I could be mistaken.

The link posted does indeed take you to the paper as it was published. There are a few primary concerns with the article, which I'll briefly mention...

1) The dataset only extends back to the mid-1970s (pg. 1). The majority (over 2/3) of this dataset includes times both where all of the leading climate indicators, as bore out by storm activity, were for below-normal seasons. Only since 1995 have we seen a major upswing in frequency of storms.
2) The PDI defined in the paper (pg. 1) will be dominated by not just strong storms -- but by storms that last quite a long time. This argues that much of the variation can be explained by an increase in the number of storms -- concurrent with the decadal signals in the data and improved detection techniques to classify storms, particularly in the eastern Atlantic -- as well as an increase in the number of long-track Cape Verde storms, more likely during times of low shear (e.g. La Nina vs El Nino events) given favorable SSTs that appear every season. Thus, this is only tangentially related to the global warming issue, not directly as Emanuel would suggest.
3) "But the large upswing in the last decade is unprecedented, and probably reflects the effect of global warming. We will return to this subject below." (pg. 2) -- again, the data set does not include times of such high activity such as the 1930s-1950s, where activity was similar to that seen in the past ten years, if not higher due to the lack of many eastern Atlantic storms in the data set. Intensity measurements are of dubious nature from that time period as well and if anything are too low. This is where the Hurricane Reanalysis Project (HRP) comes in, helping to provide some confirmation here...bringing things back to Chris Landsea's comments (he's the leader of the HRP). It is quite a large leap of faith to make with little or no evidence to support it.

I cannot make a justified comment about the "bias correction" for data noted in "Supplementary Methods," as it is not available with the article as posted. However, unless many factors have been accounted for -- the Dvorak technique, satellites (both their advent and many improvements since then, including the microwave data now available), greatly increased reconnaisance flights over the past decade, advances in hurricane understanding and knowledge, changes in NHC practices (e.g. subtropical cyclones, classification of storms) over the past decades, and so on -- then I cannot accept these results at face value.

Is global warming having an impact? Perhaps. How much of it can be directly related to hurricanes? Not much. Almost all of the variance can be explained by other factors in our climate. I would expect similar results for the very active times back around the 1930s if we had a similar data set to the one that we have for the past decade. The science in the paper is sound, from the Carnot cycle for hurricane formation/maintenance to the maximum potential intensity to the calculation of the PDI used...it's just the methods are largely incomplete and jump to conclusions, in my view, when much simpler -- if less "trendy" -- ones are more likely the case.

It should be noted that Emanuel's own MPI theory predicts a rapid rise in storm intensity with increasing SST, into the hypercane realm, which are not thought to be possible. It and the work presented here do not take into account compensating factors in the Earth's atmosphere.

BTW, Weatherchef....Kerry Emanuel is a 'he.'

--------------------
Current Tropical Model Output Plots
(or view them on the main page for any active Atlantic storms!)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
HanKFranK
User


Reged:
Posts: 1841
Loc: Graniteville, SC
Re: Nature Global Warming Paper? [Re: Clark]
      #46586 - Fri Aug 05 2005 02:57 AM

take it from a climo junkie... the activity we're experiencing isn't unprecedented. anybody who says it is doesn't understand that history goes back more than 30, 50, 200 years.
HF 0657z05august


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ryan
Storm Tracker


Reged:
Posts: 281
Loc: Long Island, NY / Stuart, FL
Re: Nature Global Warming Paper? [Re: HanKFranK]
      #46595 - Fri Aug 05 2005 10:06 AM

"Also, on Monday, Kerry Emmanuel of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology published a report indicating that global warming is making hurricanes stronger."

^from a FOX news article located at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164826,00.html

-Ryannnn

--------------------
2006 Atlantic Season Summary:
Bad, But Not AS Bad.

Life's a Storm, Watch Your Back


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Terra
Storm Tracker


Reged:
Posts: 286
Loc: Kingwood, Texas
Re: Nature Global Warming Paper? [Re: Ryan]
      #46644 - Fri Aug 05 2005 03:49 PM

I still haven't read the paper yet, but, I am impressed with your review Clark... Hey, what do you know about HCHO measurements? I have this paper to review for Einvironmental Science and Technology and would be glad to pass it on.... Since you are in graduate school, reviewing papers should be one of the things you start doing!!! Let me know! (Kidding, mostly)

--------------------
Terra Dassau Cahill


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clark
Meteorologist


Reged:
Posts: 1710
Loc:
Re: Nature Global Warming Paper? [Re: Terra]
      #46771 - Sat Aug 06 2005 06:39 PM

HCHO? Beats me, sorry!

I have to review some papers informally, mainly as it pertains to my research, but nothing on a formal basis...yet. Maybe some day.

--------------------
Current Tropical Model Output Plots
(or view them on the main page for any active Atlantic storms!)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 47 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 5548

Rate this topic

Jump to

Note: This is NOT an official page. It is run by weather hobbyists and should not be used as a replacement for official sources. 
CFHC's main servers are currently located at
Hostdime.com in Orlando, FL.
Image Server Network thanks to Mike Potts and Amazon Web Services. If you have static file hosting space that allows dns aliasing contact us to help out! Some Maps Provided by:
Great thanks to all who donated and everyone who uses the site as well. Site designed for 800x600+ resolution
When in doubt, take the word of the National Hurricane Center