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Special Tropical Weather Outlook issued for area in the East-Central Atlantic, only with 10% chance for development, not expected to do much.
Days since last H. Landfall - US: Any 241 (Idalia) , Major: 241 (Idalia) Florida - Any: 241 (Idalia) Major: 241 (Idalia)
 


News Talkback >> 2004 News Talkbacks

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LI Phil
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Wrong on TD2 [Re: summercyclone]
      #17642 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:03 PM

Well, I was wrong on TD2 being Bonnie at 5:00. We'll see what the 11:00 brings us. I'm beginning to think they won't rely solely on visuals and Dvorak, but rather wait until they can get recon in there. I hope that gives the Islands enough time to prepare. Granted, if it's not a TS then calling it such would be wrong, but I'm sure the folks in Hispaniola might like a heads up, and I don't think they had a heads up in May.

At least they have warnings up now:

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING IS NOW IN EFFECT FOR ST LUCIA.

A TROPICAL STORM WATCH IS NOW IN EFFECT FOR GUADELOUPE...MARTINIQUE...DOMINICA...ST. MAARTEN...SABA AND ST. EUSTATIUS.

AT 5 PM AST...2100Z...A TROPICAL STORM WATCH IS IN EFFECT FOR THE U.S. VIRGIN ISLANDS AND PUERTO RICO.

TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS ARE LIKELY TO SPREAD OVER PORTIONS OF THE LESSER ANTILLES DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS NORTH OF ST. LUCIA.

I'll hold off any further speculation until we get an updated quikscat and the 23:45 T's.

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"

Edited by LI Phil (Tue Aug 03 2004 09:29 PM)


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Rabbit
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TD2 [Re: summercyclone]
      #17643 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:04 PM

This will likely be downgraded to a wave when the recon plane gets there tomorrow and finds a sharp wave. I'll give it another 18 hours at best

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Anonymous
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Re: 120 mph vs. 102 at Hatteras Village [Re: summercyclone]
      #17644 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:04 PM

Probably was a typo...

sc


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James88
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Re: NRL troubles [Re: javlin]
      #17645 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:05 PM

I'm just the tiniest bit sceptical about the forecasted turn to the north. Unless I'm mistaken (please correct me if I am) the northward motion would be brought about by a trough. Well, this system is at a fairly low latitude, so there is some chance that it will avoid being pulled northward so suddenly (or at all - even though the chances of that are quite small). Since the models are a little iffy with our friend here, I can't help but think that the forecast will be a little problematic.

This may all be completely wrong, but it's just something I was wondering about.


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Anonymous
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Re: Wrong on TD2 [Re: LI Phil]
      #17646 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:06 PM

NOW it probably is a sharp wave, wouldn't be surprised if there was a downgrade, but, it would be temporary unless the system falls apart entirely...


sc


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LONNY307
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Re: NRL troubles [Re: James88]
      #17648 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:32 PM

The reason the soon to be Bonnie will turn NW then N is the trough will erode the Subtopical High that will move farther east leaving a weakness that it will follow. It is a big trough for this time of year but we've seen these every year it seems. If Bonnie is downgraded or doesn't get completly picked up then maybe a turn back. But it's all speculation.....

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BillD
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Re: Wrong on TD2 [Re: LI Phil]
      #17649 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:49 PM

I still think TD2 has a chance of making TS soon, they are just being cautious. I can understand not wanting to move it to a TS without recon. Also on the quikscat, earlier today the circulation showed up on the decsending pass, but never the ascending passes. Right now where TD2 is, the descending pass misses it, and the ascending pass from 21:12 looks just like it has for most of the day, so it doesn't help any. Although they might upgrade it to Bonnie at 11, my guess is they will wait for recon, for circulation on quikscat (tomorrow morning) or until shift change

Bill

Edited by BillD (Tue Aug 03 2004 09:51 PM)


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Rich B
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Re: NRL troubles [Re: LONNY307]
      #17650 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:50 PM

Well looks like the Outer Banks took a bit of a bashing for a while, with the centre of Alex moving to within 10 miles of Cape Hatteras. This would mean the eyewall passed over that area, and would explain the reports of gusts in excess of 100 mph. Luckily the right side of the system remained over water, and that was the stronger side.

Not too sure on TD2 right now. Think it could go both ways, with recon finding a circulation, or with them finding an open wave. Think it needs to slow a little and organise a bit better first.

Regards

--------------------
Rich B

SkyWarn UK


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James88
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Re: NRL troubles [Re: Rich B]
      #17651 - Tue Aug 03 2004 09:54 PM

Agreed, TD #2 is currently in a delicate balance. This is a will it or won't it situation. Meanwhile, check out the blow up of convection to the north of Alex's eye.

Alex flares up


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bobbi
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ill say it again [Re: James88]
      #17652 - Tue Aug 03 2004 10:22 PM

The longer TD2 takes to become Bonnie..and I think it will be with time. The further west it will go as it will be less affected by upper level winds and stay stuck in the flow westward.

NHC did the right thing here.. there are warnings up. Just like they put up warnings for Alex even tho no one was sure what it was going to do ..if it became a hurricane at all.


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Bobbi
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Re: ill say it again [Re: bobbi]
      #17653 - Tue Aug 03 2004 11:40 PM

TD2 may just be a Strong Wave traveling at a fast rate of speed, need Recon to frim it up tomorrow.

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HanKFranK
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along came bonnie? [Re: Bobbi]
      #17654 - Wed Aug 04 2004 12:26 AM

i'll truncate things tonight.
did ok with alex myself. hit the right edge of my track envelope and peaked a tad earlier than i thought (unless alex deepens again by tomorrow, got close on intensity). five days ago i was dead set on further down the coast, but it turned out only to hang nearby before moving NE.
t.d. 2 is the new and upcoming story. varmint is already calling for it's quick demise (says it's already dead even), but i think it has other plans. i was expecting a bonnie today, but of course they need to see an eye or get a recon measurement before naming a system, so guess i'll have to wait. as is with the fast forward motion (faster than i thought) it is probably loosely organized and has gale winds on the north side, but NHC is playing it close as usual and i can't totally blame them. we don't have to wait for recon, by the way, for a real way to gauge whether it is closed or not.. it will be going by barbados probably before or around daybreak.
i've been poring over the globals trying to develop scenarios with the system, and they are currently as follows:
1) it listens to varmint (he's right, TD 2s do have a knack for crib death) or at least catches his psychic urge, and keeps sliding westward oblivious to the decaying ridge to the north. deep layer flow is still cranking westward.. though it should at least drop out of fifth over the weekend as the shortwave to the north does it's thing. perhaps it will be an open wave, perhaps it will be a weak system that makes the journey westward. i give this broad scenario 25%.
2) it follows roughly the NHC forecast and deepens properly, responds to the receding ridge, and meets the GFS' classic overdone trough, which is real this time.. and sucker punches bermuda in about a week. 25% on this somewhat unimaginative scenario.
3) there is a bonnie that follows scenario #1 until it slows near 70w and ends up closer to the windward passage than the mona passage around friday. in this scenario the storm is checked by hispaniola while the shortwave to the north evolves.. i say evolves in that i think the GFS will change it's mind and split the trough, and that the main shot of the shortwave will outrun future bonnie and the piece it leaves will keep things jammed for a moment. if it doesn't split immediately then still i'd expect bonnie to be stuck under a the stretching base and not carried off. the scenario ends with a bonnie system left near the bahamas as the ridge redevelops. and i'm tagging it 50% for now.
scenario #3 shouldn't be taken seriously until t.d. 2 evolves and the model depictions of the upcoming trough are more solid (that bludgeoning trough has overdone written all over it in my reckoning). so anyway, that's t.d. 2 or bonnie or former t.d. 2 if varmint is about to score another coup.
then there's 92L. it's taking labored breaths as it trudges through the marginal waters and dry environment of east atlantic/16N latitude. take what globals have it doing and left-shift the track, and preclude development until near week's end. now you've got something there. if in fact the models are right and a piece slides west, piece slides NW.. either could do something, but more doubtfully. the northern piece would find plenty warm water, but a stagnant east atlantic environment.
nothing else of much interest. gulf not looking like it has anything up it's sleeve, weak disturbance near 25/65 overshadowed by overachieving alex. future waves are for the future. so it's really just alex going bye-bye, t.d. 2 with it's uncertain future, and 92L with a chinaman's chance (there's a good granpa-ism).
much to read. i didn't mean to lie, just happened.
gotta get gone.
HF 0026z04august


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Anonymous
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Re: ill say it again [Re: Bobbi]
      #17655 - Wed Aug 04 2004 12:29 AM

8pm TD 2 center is forming farther south. prob, be TS on wed.

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Old Sailor
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Re: along came bonnie? [Re: HanKFranK]
      #17656 - Wed Aug 04 2004 12:38 AM

Hank:
You did lay the cards on the table, now we wait to see which hand TD2 picks up, By the way that was a very interesting view you gave both sides, nice job.
Dave


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Tropics Guy
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Re: along came bonnie? [Re: HanKFranK]
      #17657 - Wed Aug 04 2004 12:45 AM

Good observations HF ,as always. I'm leaning towards your scenario # 3, thinking that it may travel more westbound before the trough starts acting on it, pulling it more northward. Right now though the westerly speed of 23 mph is impeding the development., otherwise conditions are pretty good, some SW shear , but nothing major. if it slows down in forward speed , then we might have a Bonnie, maybe tomorrow.

TG

--------------------
Tropical Cyclones: "Mother nature's heat transfer machines"


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Old Sailor
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Re: along came bonnie? [Re: HanKFranK]
      #17658 - Wed Aug 04 2004 12:51 AM

PS:

Just noticed this in the 8PM NHC Discussion,
WINDS HAVE GONE CALM AT BARBADOS WITH PASSING
SHOWERS BUT THE 24 HOUR PRESSURE TENDENCY IS ONLY SLIGHTLY LOWER
(LESS THAN 1 MB). REGARDLESS OF FUTURE DEVELOPMENT...HEAVY
RAINS/SQUALLS CAN BE EXPECTED FOR THE WINDWARD/LEEWARD ISLANDS
ESPECIALLY S OF ANTIGUA AS THE DEPRESSION MOVES THROUGH
OVERNIGHT INTO EARLY WED...MOVING INTO PUERTO RICO OVERNIGHT ..

Dave


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LoisCane
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hank frank [Re: HanKFranK]
      #17660 - Wed Aug 04 2004 01:14 AM

ok.. your#3 scenario is more plausible in line with current ongoing weather scene..

would like to agree she looks not that all great tonight and yet she looks pretty good for fighting shear and making it across a pretty dry Atlantic.. so have to consider her a contender and not just another pretty wave

maybe relocating.. maybe not, maybe going too darn fast

shear is i think stronger than any one talked about however.. most people assumed she would be higher up getting ready to turn by now in the north part of the islands.. and we are not there so the models didnt handle it well. That being said .. why would we expect her to fall apart and disapate? I mean that was part of it.. a big part. If part is way off.. you sort of have to throw out the rest of it. By my reckoning..

Will see tomorrow.. the planes will ...daylight will tell and as said here.. we should know from ground obs what is really going on. Hate to see her taken down to an open wave, would settle to hang onto TD for now.. Really STRONG shear there.. sort of double layer shear.

Alex looks good.

Bobbi

--------------------
http://hurricaneharbor.blogspot.com/


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Steve Hirschbe.
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Re: along came bonnie? [Re: HanKFranK]
      #17661 - Wed Aug 04 2004 01:27 AM

Great analysis Hank. I have nothing I can add to that. But I think it won't go the way of the varmint.

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Old Sailor
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Re: hank frank [Re: LoisCane]
      #17663 - Wed Aug 04 2004 01:30 AM

Also models don't handle Waves or Strong waves very well. Even if they feed a low into the model program, doesn't always make it so, lot of models say there is no low there.
Only way we are going to find out is with Recon plane going in there.

Always tomorrow guys and girls.
Dave


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Steve
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Alex in the record books... [Re: Old Sailor]
      #17664 - Wed Aug 04 2004 01:58 AM

Today was a pretty enjoyable day watching radars, sats, etc. around the web. Cool thing was that the internet wasn't as jammed and slow as it usually is when a storm is threatening. I was digging the Morehead City radar all day. All indications was that the storm was pretty strong by all eye witness accounts.

Banner day for the Accupro people. Bastardi was all over the storm today. You know he was raging like 3 pots of coffee. He gave maybe 5 updates from 2:20am through tonight. The last post, or requiem I guess, on the storm referenced some letters on Hatteras Realty's site. You can find it HERE. If you read the 3:15pm report, you'll see they say it's worse in Cape Hatteras than it was for Isabel. That's a bit of a surprise. The 1944 storm is the reference for that area. Wow. He also mentioned that he spoke with Mark Suddeth of the Hurricane Intercept Research team (videos usually available at hurricanetrack.com) and Mark reported 90 minutes of winds at 70mph or higher (including several 80+ and 2 > 100mph gusts). Finally, he cautions that Alex (like Claudette in Texas last year vs. Lili in '02) demonstrated the difference between an eye tightening at landfall and how the intensity really cranks.

So even though it was an Island hit, the "A" storm chalks up a Cat 2 shot on the USA. We've got many, many more to go. It will be interesting to see what the final rainfall totals were for the storm once NOAA has them published. There have got to be several areas of 6-9"+ over the 2-day period.

As for the next players on the playing field, who knows? 92L is pretty far out there. I predicted yesterday that it and 91L were candidates for the ocean. 91L is farther south than I thought it would be, but I don't see how it can continue west for that much longer. We've had our 3rd cold front since July make its way through, and there's supposed to be a really deep cold high for the NE and Mid-Atlantic later this week (potential severe weather event from what I can tell). I have no idea what either will do, but I will say this. I looked at a visible of Africa today and there were 3 systems on the continent and one approaching the east that all appear to be players. It's a burst of some of the strongest waves I've seen in a few years (with the exception of that occasional system that appears to already be a TS only haflway across Africa. Good shot that my peeps in P.R. might see some effects from 91L toward the end of the week. For now, all I can do is hope it's nothing serious and just sets the table for a good tropical wave drink, surf and smoke fest. Party on Island dudes!

Steve

P.S. - Sorry about any grammar or misspellings. It's Wild Turkey 101 night (over ice with a splash of tap water). Yeah baby. A toast to Alex and hopefully no loss of life.

--------------------
MF'n Super Bowl Champions


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