LI Phil
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Richie,
Funny article man! Yanks 2 Pedro 0
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2005 Forecast: 14/7/4
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Clark
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The theory is the closest to being sound that I have heard, but I doubt it would work. A 10mi x 10mi wide region is only a very small fraction of a hurricane and would likely have a negligible effect. Cold water is denser than warm water, I do believe, so the colder water is going to tend to sink back down to the surface. If it didn't, you risk affecting/damaging the ecosystem of the ocean there -- certain plants and fish depend on particular temperatures of water -- unless you had some way of reversing it on its own.
But, at the very least, it's better than the other ideas I've heard. Dynagel...argh. And the idea of dropping water-absorbent material from the air into the storm itself -- well, that cuts off evaporative cooling due to precipitation, which may well lead to warming inside the storm enhancing the warm core; at the very least, it certainly won't cause the shear it's inventor wanted to creare. Don't want to enhance the storm...
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Keith234
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What if you dropped a material that cleaned water, taking away the salt so there would be no condesation nuclei?
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"I became insane with horrible periods of sanity"
Edgar Allan Poe
Edited by Keith234 (Sun Sep 19 2004 06:40 PM)
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Storm Cooper
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I think we may be drifting off here a little...
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/watl-vis-loop.html
Looking a little better..
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Hurricane Season 2017 13/7/1
Edited by Storm Cooper (Sun Sep 19 2004 06:15 PM)
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tpratch
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Quote:
What if you dropped a material that cleaned water, taking away the salt so there would be no condestation nuclei?
Water evaporates regardless of salt content.
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LI Phil
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What are "condesdation nuclei"?
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2005 Forecast: 14/7/4
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tpratch
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Quote:
What are "condesdation nuclei"?
"condesdation(sic) nuclei" are impurities in the water from which evaporation happens.
In the ocean, they can be formed from the waste of plankton, or simply be microscopic impurities of any kind. Due to salt's lattice nature, I don't feel it's a likely suspect.
YMMV, SPSFD.
Besides, restricting evaporation means forcing water to get warmer - not colder.
Edited by tpratch (Sun Sep 19 2004 06:28 PM)
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GuppieGrouper
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Since the is not offering a two o'clock advisory on the Entity named Jeanne, I will try my hand at it:
ON AVAILABLE SATELLITE IMAGRY, TROPICAL ENTITY JEANNE APPEARS TO BE LOCATED AT 24.8 (9) OR 25.0 AND 72.5 OR 6. THE ENTITY APPEARS TO BE HEADING IN A NNN DIRECTION. THE ENTITY APPEARS TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE BAND DEVELOPING IN THE NW OUTFLOW, WITH A FAIRLY GOOD SOUTHEAST OUTFLOW.
THE INITALIZING MODELS ARE OUT TO LUNCH AND WILL RETURN AT 5:00PM TO GIVE AN UPDATE.
Disclaimer: no meterologist jobs were threatened in the creation of this summary.
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God commands. Laymen guess. Scientists record.
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Keith234
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Sorry you can delete this post once it has served it's purpose. Yes water does evaporate regardless of it's contents but something has to act as condensation nuclei because water has to overcome surface tension . Now for clouds to form ice in microscopic forms it has to very cold infact that cold hardly never exists. Now over the ocean tiny salt particles exist in the air as condensation nuclei, if these were removed rain would never occur in a hurricane and condenstation at that too. Not having condensation would drastically reduce the amount of heat in hurricanes as they are fueled by latent heat and convection would not occur. When condensation occurs I believe 570 calories of heat are sent into the atmosphere, that's a lot of heat and evaporatation takes away 70 calories. Just a little infomation on why it rains, I find it very interesting.
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"I became insane with horrible periods of sanity"
Edgar Allan Poe
Edited by Keith234 (Sun Sep 19 2004 06:39 PM)
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LI Phil
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What's "condenstation"?
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2005 Forecast: 14/7/4
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Keith234
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I think you know what I mean, condensation
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"I became insane with horrible periods of sanity"
Edgar Allan Poe
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tpratch
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Sorry - I'm going to respectfully disagree. Condensation nuclei can be anything - not even necessarily the salt in the air. Read up some more.
Beyond that, you do realize how impossible it would be to completely "clean" ocean water, right? The marine life in the ocean depends on the salinity to survive. Ocean currents move in such a manner that removal of the salt from any large (let's grant you 100 square miles to whatever depth) amount would merely become impure in a matter of minutes if not less.
Besides, everyone knows that without condensation, the heat of the water builds up. The hurricane gets a lot of its strength from warmer water - and not because it helps cause evaporation 
Edited by tpratch (Sun Sep 19 2004 06:39 PM)
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Keith234
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I guess we are not on the same wavelength but I know that condensation nuclei don't just have to be salt, but over the ocean it mostly is and some micro particles of marine life. Trying to figure the mystery of gobal circulation is a very hard one (near impossible), how the Earth developed all of it's methods of spreading of heat it amazes me. Once one realizes how everything fits together like a puzzle it's gives an errie feeling (at least for me). Anyway BACK TO JEANNE.
It's cloud formation has become better organized lately and seems to be filling in the area that was badly sheared. I think tom. it will peak at it's intensity as it moves out away from the shear.
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"I became insane with horrible periods of sanity"
Edgar Allan Poe
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Clark
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Not really -- over the oceans, the largest contributor to condensation nuclei are sulfates emitted by marine life. (For more: http://www.vivoscuola.it/us/rsigpp3202/umidita/attivita/CCN.htm, http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/1vl.html) Plus, there are other sources from the land that are carried across the oceans by the trade winds -- pollution being included as one of them. Eliminating salt content would likely have a negligible impact on hurricanes, but a very large one on marine life, considering there are many species that can only live in either salt or fresh water (and not either or).
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scottsvb
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Anyone just watch hurricane update. They really need to teach this woman how hurricanes form. She said that right now the outflow is being sheard and its too close to land down in hispaniola.... Shes a moron. The outflow is good in almost all quardrents and there is no landmass (outside of the bahamas) that is affecting her unlike yesterday. She really needs to sit down with Dr.Lyons or some better knowledged mets. Sorry, but things like that really upset me when they tell the public stuff that are not generally correct.
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LI Phil
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I just read JB's noon thoughts on the tropics. He's either stark raving mad or very prescient...anyone interested? Let me know and I'll summarize.
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2005 Forecast: 14/7/4
BUCKLE UP!
"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"
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AdmittedHacker
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After reviewing the latest series of animated track models, it appears that the majority of the models (with the exception of UKMET) now show Jeanne heading off to the east, just barely slipping underneath the approaching ridge, and following in Karls path off to the northeast....
I realize that this possibility becoming reality is largely a function of timing... so with Jeanne now being a little further east, do any of you think this scenario is now a realistic outcome?
AdmittedHacker
(no witty phrase to insert here, just hoping for the best)
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Still_StormKrone
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Quote:
I just read JB's noon thoughts on the tropics. He's either stark raving mad or very prescient...anyone interested? Let me know and I'll summarize.
Do tell... I am curious..
SK (not signed in)
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AdmittedHacker
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Scott... I saw her on . That's one reason I have stopped watching ....
Obviously having a pretty face is more important that a met background or degree... hey, welcome to America. It's all about selling and image.... details and accuracy are just an afterthought...
AdmittedHacker
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scottsvb
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why does it seem to me that the LLC is just alittle more w then what the vis sat shows. I mean take a look at the wv, vis and if,,, if you look really hard enough there is a blow up of convection that LOOKS like its on the west side of the circulation,,,,but is that the LLC??? or really the mid? It appears to me that the blow up is over or just E of the LLC really being closer to 24.4N and 73.5W. Oh well wish recon was in there to see right now, but its not yet there. Anyways Im sure its really where the midlevel is closer to 24.2N and 72.2W.
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