Clark
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In regards to the Willoughby stuff posted -- the closest things I can think of to that in regards to the multiple low-level centers are the mesovortices exhibited in the centers of very strong hurricanes. Often, around the larger center, you can see 3-8 small vortices rotating around the larger center. Occasionally, this phenomenon occurs near an eyewall replacement cycle, but it is not necessarily a precursor to one (meaning what I am trying to say is that the two really aren't coorelated). Isabel exhibited this, as did and .
In regards to the paper posted about binary interaction of tropical cyclones -- if I'm not mistaken, that is more the interaction between two separate tropical cyclones instead of two distinct vortices within the same circulation envelope/system. There's only a small amount of research on the latter problem. Whenever I think of this scenario, though, I'm reminded of a starfish pattern of vortices rotating in tandem with each other in the central Atlantic one year about 5-6 years ago. Really weird to see, but pretty interesting. And it does occur more than it may seem.
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Clark
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Kent -- it's very likely at that time that Edna was undergoing transition at the time. Without satellite to confirm, there's no way to know exactly what was going on, but my best educated guess would be that the center of the system, while still a vigorous low, had become elongated as it was becoming .
The wind field expansion, as noted in the link that you provided, provides further evidence of the transition idea. It's not really likely to ever see a tropical cyclone with gale force winds outward up to 400mi from the center; that's much, much more common with midlatitude storms, however. And, that the strongest winds were not near the center at all gives further evidence of this as well.
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Clark
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MrSpock -- as long as it can be traced back to , whether that be through a tropical wave (like Bonnie's regeneration), mid-level vortex & vorticity maximum, or some other means of continuity between the two systems, I believe the would rename the system . Even if a storm goes and then becomes tropical again (very rare), they keep the name. Only if they change basins without maintaining themselves at least as depressions or if the main system completely dies and a new system forms that might be related to the old one (but evidence is lacking) would the storm get a new name.
That said...I don't get the feeling is going back towards the Gulf, thankfully.
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Clark
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Jack Williams is a rather famous meteorologist/author who has written or cowritten a number of books, primarily aimed at introducing meteorology to the layman/general public. He recently (2004) won an award (along with Bob Sheets) from the Amer. Meteorological Society for his last book, of which the title escapes me but (obviously) had something to do with hurricanes.
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Storm Cooper
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Thanks Clark, this has been a very "up in the air issue" tonight, let alone all season. Looking back it seems to be a very "scant" area.. I have not even tried to look into it... too tired and too much going both ways... thanks again!
Coop
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Hurricane Season 2017 13/7/1
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Kent
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Clark
Thank you so much! You are very good at explaining things. Are you a teacher too?
and I miss Bob Sheets by the way.
and last one I promise....Did you see my post that ended up in the forum called "other storm basins"?
It's also about this supposed two eye thing
here';s the link to the article:
http://www.phschool.com/science/planetdiary/archive03/cycl1090503.html
http://www.phschool.com/science/planetdiary/archive03/cycl1090503.html
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Clark
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Thanks -- no, I'm not. I'm still completing studies in meteorology at the graduate level, but aim to become a researcher & professor some day. The first part has already happened, the second will come down the road.
I did see the post in the other forum, but do not know enough about the situation to really make a comment. The data in the other storm suggested a storm neaing status; this one is obviously a tropical cyclone. It could have been two of those mesovortices becoming strong enough to become self-sufficient with their own eyewalls and everything, but that's just a guess on my part. That whole field is certainly something that needs further studies.
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DMFischer
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I looked this book up, "Hurricane Watch" by Jack Williams and Bob Sheets. Random House published and also listed is "The USA Today Weather Book". Both are sold at Barnes and Nobles.
Thank you again, I have been wanting a book to help me understand things said here!! Ya'll are always talking over my head, kinda. 
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Survived: Mitch '98-Charley's crossing'04-Frances '04-Jeanne'04 Survived near fatal fear from Floyd's threat.
Nearly grew gills with Fay'08
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LadyStorm
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Jeanne is not done yet. Look at the 5 am track from the NWS.
Jeanne
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"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
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GuppieGrouper
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Please excuse the Tangential thinking on an early Sunday morning, but is that the lightbulb going off/on that lets every one know that Jeanne is thinking about her next move? If not, the pattern drawn sure looks like one to me. Just reaching for some explanation that is not as scientific as it is an anthropromorphism.
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God commands. Laymen guess. Scientists record.
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Domino
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This morning's forecasted track is the most bizarre I think I've seen. Looks like Jeanne is going to....go in circles? I think had a bigger eye than Jeanne has forecasted track. :?:
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LadyStorm
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She still has a chance to take a trip to Florida. Only time will tell. No one not even her knows where she is going. I think she is drunk....:)
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Please excuse the Tangential thinking on an early Sunday morning, but is that the lightbulb going off/on that lets every one know that Jeanne is thinking about her next move? If not, the pattern drawn sure looks like one to me. Just reaching for some explanation that is not as scientific as it is an anthropromorphism.
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"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them"
..........Albert Einstein
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MrSpock
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Thanks for the answer.
The question in my mind was that it could be quite subjective. If all you have a small piece of energy, then what?
usually when the issue comes up, it has been a weak TD or something that goes back to an open wave, which is much more clear-cut.
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Frank P
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Bizarre but not uncommon.... if that track comes to fruition, it might end up very similar to the track that Hurricane Betsy took in 1965, that pummeled south Florida and eventually on to New Oreans as a Cat 3 and a direct hit... now I'm not saying that this is what Jeanne is going to do, but loops in themselves are not that uncommen.... just something else for the poor people of Florida to worry about
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Keith234
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In regard to the remnats of , the strong thunderstorms that came to Long Island and the NJ area where more tropical warm front that anything else that I have seen. As the moisture hit the land, it "bombed", somehow it encouraged convection in the clouds. It looked like a hurricane was here, my front tree fell down and we had partial melted hail. Also the reason why it was a tropical warm front, the temps increased, as opposed to a thunderstorm thats the atmosphere cools because of latent heat
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"I became insane with horrible periods of sanity"
Edgar Allan Poe
Edited by Keith234 (Sun Sep 19 2004 08:47 AM)
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DMFischer
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Okay, I hate the graphic program. My adobe is on my mac where I am not hooked up to the internet. So please do not judge the graphic. it is horrible. In attempt to learn from what I was told yesterday, in this WV you can see Karl just coming into the picture. Am I seeing the trough clearly that will turn him north?? Soon?? and that box herberts box...someones box...the one that if a cane goes through it, it will hit SFLa, isnt that in front of Karl somewhere?? Delete if this is just too stupid, but am I reading this right?
I have bought Williams book, but it will not be here for 8-10 days.
Thanks for the teaching guys.
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Survived: Mitch '98-Charley's crossing'04-Frances '04-Jeanne'04 Survived near fatal fear from Floyd's threat.
Nearly grew gills with Fay'08
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Keith234
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You got the basic idea that trough is an area of disturbed weather but for you can connect the isobars (area's of equal pressure) you need buoy readings. Most of the upper level air features are found at the 500 mb level because pretty much that's were they reside. So you can see the trough at a 500 mb level.
Here's an excellent website in teaching some basic things from geopontential heights to hurricanes ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/fw/geos.rxml
Just click online guides and choose the topic of your choice.
Edit: Just copy and paste don't add "www" or "com"
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"I became insane with horrible periods of sanity"
Edgar Allan Poe
Edited by Keith234 (Sun Sep 19 2004 09:43 AM)
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Redbird1
Unregistered
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Lost my password during the registration process. Yes I do care about RickonBoat and all of this online community. I was relieved to find Frank okay though. Again thanks for all you do Phil on here.
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leetdan
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That's definittely a trough, associated with , that you can see dangling in front of Jeanne, which will be responsible for edging her north before the high swoops downand loops her back. It doesn't show up on all the models, but I'd also assume that's a trough rolling away from Jeanne towards Karl. Most of the models show Karl turning north from the interaction with a large high north and east of Karl off Europe, as well as with the general rotation of Jeanne.
I'm still quite new to this, but that's what I gathered from watching the model loops.
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[witty phrase here]
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leetdan
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A google search for "hurricane box Florida" turns up this page for the Hebert Box. It's an interesting read, but pay close attention to the disclaimers down at the bottom.
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[witty phrase here]
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