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Archives 2000s >> 2005 News Talkbacks

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Terra
Storm Tracker


Reged: Tue
Posts: 286
Loc: Kingwood, Texas
Re: Administrative Note [Re: Storm Hunter]
      #52853 - Wed Aug 31 2005 02:14 AM

Regarding Danny.... I spoke to him on Monday around noon (I think). He worked the night before and had been able to get home safely before the storm. I asked him to call me when the storm had safely passed, but I haven't heard back from him. I have called many times hoping to get through and even sent a text message. It could just be related to the phone problem....

Regarding Eden Isles in Slidell... I heard an account that the Old Spanish Trail area appeared to be part of the Lake. I'm thinking since Eden Isles was so close and so low that they were completely underwater. I understand water has subsided in Slidell somewhat however, and as of today north of Gause was not flooded (which doesn't mean it wasn't in Monday).

My parents in Covington were finally able to speak to a neighbor who stayed home for the storm. A lot of her area was ok, but she had what was described as 100 trees on her roof from three tornados that went through the area. The people across the street from her had to be pulled out from their house by my neighbors. These same people have been the clearing crew for the area. They rode on 4-wheelers and used chainsaws to clear roads for everyone. They felt that it would be several weeks before anyone even thought about electricity in this area... and this wasn't a hard hit area. The silver lining here is that these regular people have done a lot to help their area... I'm impressed.

I still don't know about my place... I hope it's ok, since most of my extended family lost everything and it would be nice to have something to offer.

I'm especially worried about my relatives in ocean springs, ms. They weren't very smart about evacuating and tried to return Monday afternoon to their houses. We haven't been able to talk to them since we text messaged on Monday and learned they couldn't get back in. I heard that everything south of the railroad tracks in MS was destroyed.

--------------------
Terra Dassau Cahill


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orlandocanewatcher
Verified CFHC User


Reged: Thu
Posts: 16
Loc: E Central Florida
Re: Administrative Note [Re: Terra]
      #52855 - Wed Aug 31 2005 03:00 AM

Terra-thanks for the info on Eden Isles...kinda thought that may be the case, was just hoping otherwise...hopefully she is safe. Glad she didn't stay in that area....let's just hope that in Laurel, MS she was safe.

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MissBecky
Weather Guru


Reged: Thu
Posts: 112
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL
Economic impacts [Re: orlandocanewatcher]
      #52860 - Wed Aug 31 2005 07:21 AM

Do you think a comparison can be made between Katrina's effect on modern New Orleans and the 1900 hurricane in Galveston? Obviously not comparing loss of life, but in terms of economic impact. Before that hurricane, Galveston was a thriving port city. They never really did recover from the storm. I used to live in Houston, and we would drive down to Galveston on the weekends, and I was always surprised at how few people were out shopping or on the beaches. Many people who lived in Galveston actually worked in Houston, due to the depressed state of the local economy.

My question is, can New Orleans recover, or is it doomed to become another Galveston?


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emackl
Storm Tracker


Reged: Sat
Posts: 205
Loc: Indianapolis
Re: Economic impacts [Re: MissBecky]
      #52862 - Wed Aug 31 2005 07:52 AM

Well, I'm impressed by my 11 year old son. He's a military know it all and dreams of going to West Point. He told me yesterday that the Navy needs to get there asap. They have special hovercraft that would be perfect for the job. Today I read this:
"The ships will carry food, fuel, medical and construction supplies, as well as hovercraft that can be used for evacuation and search-and-rescue missions." Maybe the little guy has contacts I don't know about..LOL!

I just called and told him on his way to school. Now I have strict orders to tape 9 hours of FNC so he can watch...sheesh

Edited by emackl (Wed Aug 31 2005 07:54 AM)


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GuppieGrouper
Weather Master


Reged: Fri
Posts: 596
Loc: Polk County, Florida
Re: Economic impacts [Re: MissBecky]
      #52863 - Wed Aug 31 2005 07:56 AM

I believe that it will take time for the economic and geographic changes made on the coastline to settle. People who have survived this catastrophe will not be willing to take a chance in the area too soon. But, with this being a port of entry for shipping, it will probably come back faster than one would expect. As long as they can rebuild the oil refinaries, the rest will come due to the economics of it. But, my guess is that there will be many structural engineers consulted in how to make it more storm proof. There is tax write off loss and there is digging a hole and burying it in concrete. Katrina deep sixed the economy for about 10 years in that area. By the way, there is still standing water in Seabring Florida from last year's hurricanes with houses that were abandoned when the water was up to the windows. A new map of low lying areas around the coastal regions will have to be formulated. We are in a different weather era. I personally would love to see the Government take over all the waterfront property in Tropical Storm prone areas and turn into parks and recreations areas that could not be used for anything other than business,such as restaurants or non -inhabitable activities. This would free up the coast lands to be available for everyone to see the view, but no one would be able to get the impression that they were safe from hurricanes and then the evacuation processes in most cases would be much less trouble. I am talking about the coastal areas directly facing the ocean for one to five miles inland. Every one could predict this storm was coming, but no one could say which year, until it was too late.

--------------------
God commands. Laymen guess. Scientists record.


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collegemom
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Thu
Posts: 82
Loc: Central Arkansas
Re: Administrative Note [Re: orlandocanewatcher]
      #52864 - Wed Aug 31 2005 07:59 AM

Does anyone know exactly how high the river is at this stage? Do we have an estimate on how much rain has fallen in the river valleys (mississippi and ohio) that drain back to the gulf? I realize it will take a day or two for the upriver water to flow and I only hope this is not our next crisis.

--------------------
character has been defined as what we do when no one is looking


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AndyG
Weather Watcher


Reged: Mon
Posts: 35
Loc: Bradenton, FL
Re: Administrative Note [Re: collegemom]
      #52865 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:03 AM

Just read on Foxnews.com that some of the oil reserves are going to be released.

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emackl
Storm Tracker


Reged: Sat
Posts: 205
Loc: Indianapolis
Re: Administrative Note [Re: AndyG]
      #52866 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:09 AM

Sadly, it's not going to be easy to refine it. As long as the refineries are shut down it's almost useless. My guess it's being done to ease the public emotionally. There's so much talk of doom and gloom that hopefullly it will work.

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Random Chaos
Weather Analyst


Reged: Sat
Posts: 1024
Loc: Maryland
Re: Administrative Note [Re: AndyG]
      #52867 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:10 AM

NO mayor just said on NBC that he's heard that one of the levees may have been successfully repaired.

Let us hope it was.


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Margie
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1191
Loc: Twin Cities
Re: Administrative Note [Re: Terra]
      #52868 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:16 AM

That is so sad. People come first, and that is the worst part, the loss of life, but also so many beautiful and charming places. Ocean Springs had all those beautiful tiny historic homes in that downtown area...and the Walter Inglis Museum! I often thought I would like to eventually move to either Ocean Springs or Bay St Louis/Pass Christian area, to be living in an area where there was a thriving artist community. And all the beautiful oak trees on the drive along Hwy 90, along the entire coast.

Except for the casinos (which I think ruined Harrison County) the coast was beautiful.

I realized last night though that as horrible as things are now, and as inconceivable as the cleanup is, that it will be cleaned up, and people will rebuild. It will take years though, and I think after we get past the first year, a long-term economic plan for the entire area. I think now that the country will really be surprised at the determination of the coastal communities to get back on their feet. What was I thinking yesterday. Of course people will rebuild.

--------------------
Katrina's Surge: http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/Katrinas_surge_contents.asp


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bucagator
Registered User


Reged: Sun
Posts: 3
Loc: Central Florida
Re: Economic impacts [Re: GuppieGrouper]
      #52869 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:17 AM

Quote:

By the way, there is still standing water in Seabring Florida from last year's hurricanes with houses that were abandoned when the water was up to the windows.




I'm afraid I have to disagree with this statement. I live in Wauchula (20 miles from Sebring) and took the brunt of all 3 central FL 'canes. My business has trucks that cover all of Highlands County and can think of no standing water from last year. In fact, Sebring received virtually no damage when compared to Wauchula and Arcadia. Sebring sits atop the Lake Wales Ridge and the only flooding one can find is when someone built a home on property that used to be a lake or creek but dried up as water usage surpassed water replenishment. Many central Florida lakes nearly dried up in the '80's and '90's only to refill as the rainfall levels increased over the last few years.


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FlaRebel
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Thu
Posts: 59
Loc: Tallahassee, FL
Re: Katrina Aftermath Continues [Re: Margie]
      #52870 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:19 AM

Quote:

Hi everyone thanks so much for your posts. That really means a lot to me.

I had to call some relatives and then I did talk with Phil on the phone a bit.

I was starting to get a little crazy this evening. I had exhausted all the resources I could online and the prospect of not doing anything was too much, so I called my brother's house in TX and talked to my SIL. We're talking on the phone and she shrieks that there is a call waiting and it is my SIL in Pascagoula. So they talked to her and my brother for just a couple minutes before the connection went dead.

I heard this second-hand from my brother in TX: they had been working around the clock nonstop for three days (since Sunday). They had just been given a couple hours off to get some sleep. I think that says a lot about how stretched the resources are at attempting to deal with this disaster, and how bad the disaster is. So they tried the phones again and now they were working. So the first call my SIL made was to my brother in TX.

My brother has spent the last couple days continuing search and rescue. It is very grim there. Read between the lines here. I really don't want to post any more than that.

That's all we're going to know for now. I don't care if I don't talk to him right away. All I needed to hear was that he was ok. I imagine he'll have some story to tell me when he finally gets a chance to slow down, but honestly I don't think that will be for at least a month.

In many cases I think that they are going to have to pull out of some of these areas for the short term, until sewer, electric, running water, etc. can be put back tog. I actually wonder if Pascagoula will become a ghost town. It existed really because of the shipyard, which will probably be too expensive to rebuild. So it will evolve into something else. I don't think the coast can really come back from something like this.

Again I want to say that I don't think I could have gotten through these last couple days without you guys.

We knew before many people did what was happening, and after Katrina hit (you know even typing the name makes me feel so bitter), we knew as well. None of my friends understood. So I am sorry to have kind of spilled my guts out here, and thank you all for being so supportive!




Margie, I'm so thankful you got good news!!! When you finally get to talk to him, let him know we all appreciate the job he and his comrades are doing.


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Margie
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1191
Loc: Twin Cities
Re: Economic impacts [Re: MissBecky]
      #52871 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:23 AM

Quote:

Do you think a comparison can be made between Katrina's effect on modern New Orleans and the 1900 hurricane in Galveston? Obviously not comparing loss of life, but in terms of economic impact. Before that hurricane, Galveston was a thriving port city. They never really did recover from the storm. I used to live in Houston, and we would drive down to Galveston on the weekends, and I was always surprised at how few people were out shopping or on the beaches. Many people who lived in Galveston actually worked in Houston, due to the depressed state of the local economy.

My question is, can New Orleans recover, or is it doomed to become another Galveston?




That briefly crossed my mind, but then I decided that I'd rather not make comparisons. I don't think there is anything to compare to this.

We do need the MS river for transportation; it is absolutely essential for the rest of the country, and so whatever else happens, the river channel will be repaired. Whatever is decided about NO proper, somewhere along the river they will build whatever is required to support a port.

Beyond that - perhaps long term the coastal communities may decide to rebuild some businesses north of I-10, to minimize economic inpact in future storms. Wouldn't it be nice if the coast recovered but went back to being less industrialized. Guess I'm daydreaming.

--------------------
Katrina's Surge: http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/Katrinas_surge_contents.asp

Edited by Margie (Wed Aug 31 2005 08:24 AM)


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Margie
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1191
Loc: Twin Cities
Re: Katrina Aftermath Continues [Re: FlaRebel]
      #52873 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:30 AM

They really are heroes down the line. They knew their own homes were going to be destroyed, and they just went to work at the EOC on Sunday. And I know my brother would have helped people survive even if it meant he did not make it. I have to say I am probably just not made of that same stuff. Going out and doing rescue after rescue in those conditions, and only being sorry that you couldn't do more rescues.

Now they are working around the clock with hardly any sleep, to get as many survivors as they can.

I guess after a couple days that will slow down and I don't know what the focus is after that, I guess getting everyone that survived a place to live in. I don't think tents are going to work down there, with the fire ants and such. I think in a couple days that is what is going to be hardest for them; having some time finally to go back to what is left of their home, and facing the long-term recovery effort.

--------------------
Katrina's Surge: http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/Katrinas_surge_contents.asp


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Floridacane
Weather Guru


Reged: Sat
Posts: 110
Loc: Palm Bay, Florida
Re: Katrina Aftermath Continues [Re: Margie]
      #52874 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:45 AM

Just announced on CNN, NO airport opened for limited use. No commercial flights, but they say medical and other help is on the way.

--------------------
What's brewin' everyone?
Lori


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Margie
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1191
Loc: Twin Cities
Categorizing Katrina [Re: FlaRebel]
      #52875 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:46 AM

I think this storm will be the impetus for recategorizing storms.

Katrina was so large that it didn't matter that she weakened to a Cat 4 before landing. I think the sheer size may have helped increase the height of the storm surge beyond what was anticipated.

I keep hearing reports that say, "This is where the eye of Katrina landed." I don't think half those newscasters even understand that she was so large that the eye actually landed...everywhere. It is hard to go from our set mental image of the size of the eye and its effects that we've seen from all the previous hurricanes in our lifetimes, and then look at this one. It just can't be seen in the same way.

The eyewall upon landing curved all along the entire east shoreline of LA from south of NO up to Slidell, and around to the entire MS coastline right up to the Biloxi/Gulfport area. All those areas were hit at once as the large eye neatly slid into a position that happened to approxmiate 60 miles of coastline. But because of the strong NE quad, the effects on the the 40 mi of coastline to the east of Biloxi, approximately up to Mobile Bay area, also suffered the same catastrophic events and a storm surge nearly as high as the coast that was hit by the eye. Ocean Springs, just to the right of the NE eyewall, suffered damage as extreme as Biloxi.

The second effect relating to the size of Katrina is that she went the entire 15 rounds and then some. Because of her large size, even going at a good clip she produced significant winds over a more than 24-hour period. For those on the coast, the storm went on and on and on. And I think that the intensity of damage needs to be related to the duration of the storm as well as the highest wind speed.

Once the hurricane force winds came ashore in Pascagoula, it wasn't long before roofs came off of buildings, including the Jackson Co EOC; maybe about a half hour. But those winds didn't abate. They increased, and stayed over 90mph for I believe 4-5 more hours. That has to become a factor in damage categorization. All Cat 4 storms produce devastating damage, but this one produced it on a larger scale simply because of its size.

--------------------
Katrina's Surge: http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/Katrinas_surge_contents.asp

Edited by Margie (Wed Aug 31 2005 08:48 AM)


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MadDog
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Thu
Posts: 51
Loc: DeBary, Florida
Re: Categorizing Katrina [Re: Margie]
      #52877 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:53 AM

Have we heard from Rick on Boat in Mobile?

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LI Phil
User


Reged: Fri
Posts: 2637
Loc: Long Island (40.7N 73.6W)
Re: Categorizing Katrina [Re: MadDog]
      #52879 - Wed Aug 31 2005 08:58 AM

Quote:

Have we heard from Rick on Boat in Mobile?




i think we're about to

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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Margie
Senior Storm Chaser


Reged: Fri
Posts: 1191
Loc: Twin Cities
Re: Categorizing Katrina [Re: LI Phil]
      #52882 - Wed Aug 31 2005 09:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Have we heard from Rick on Boat in Mobile?




i think we're about to




No kidding! That's great.

--------------------
Katrina's Surge: http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/Katrinas_surge_contents.asp


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Rick on boat in Mobile
Weather Drama Guru


Reged: Wed
Posts: 161
words are inadequate to describe Katrina [Re: LI Phil]
      #52883 - Wed Aug 31 2005 09:16 AM

Back at work today....

Dodged a bullet. This was an unbelievable storm...you can't imagine....have to see the news...and it's worse than that...gas lines here...power out in most places. But power is being restored.

All the coast of Mississippi has been wiped clean......completely....
Dauphin Island, south of me 20 miles....lost 90% of their homes
My boat is inland about 15 miles. Sustained bridge damage, popped the radar off, and broke my steering wheel topside. No big deal. Boat did well...the storm surge jammed the boat into the roof....

but across the river....heavy devastation. Turner Marine....lost almost ALL of their sailboats...piled on top of one another...(those that weren't thrown up river 2-3 miles...)

but Mobile, all in all had less wind damage than Ivan...but the storm surge was somewhere in the 20' range...and downtown Mobile had water ...but not like New Orleans...not close.

Probably hundreds of thousands of boats,....gone.

Had that storm kicked right just 50 miles...and the story would be a little different.

New Orleans will NEVER be the same....period...

Entire coast of Mississippi...all the beautiful Antebellum homes....GONE....
just sad......depressing...and the part that hurts are the lives lost. NO REASON to stay...some lady in the gas line yesterday...told me her parents called from Gulf Port....(they were about 4 blocks from the beach) and they were scared and crying..because they were in ankle deep water.....and it was rising....this was 4-5 hours BEFORE the storm hit...and they said..."we can't leave now...it's too late"....

she was wondering what happened to them...I didn't say a word. but a wall of water 30' was on the way...and she couldn't imagine that...and I wasn't gonna tell her....

WHY would people stay?...I can't understand that...

they won't now.

anyhow...I'm out of words...but the storm I knew was coming one day..the one we ALL knew was coming....came.

there will be more of them...and we have to build smarter...and wiser.


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