WhitherWeather
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What we need right now is the same person who parted the Red Sea to step in and part Lake Ponchatrain. 
I can only wonder, at that sentiment, who sent in to begin with.
WhitherWeather
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Disaster Master
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I would bet the farm that it will come to that. Right now there is a prison riot with hostages.
I would bet that within 48 hours there is a small riot inside the superdome. Anyone wanna take that bet? I have PayPal.....anyone?? Even if the 3 ft of water on the runway at N.O I A. is gone you still have to get folks to the planes. I heard a rumor of a Tent city in Nashville being erected(not a comfortable word). That was brought up in a FEMA conference call at 3pm today. So much for tail gating at the Titans game.
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WiscoWx
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I'm sure there will come a time when the Superdome will be evacuated as part of the overall citywide evacuation, but if adequately policed and supplied it sounds like it has the capability to house (badly) those people for a period of time. These next few days will be the worst, but it's apparent that the federal government is mobilizing a lot of resources on both the civilian and military side for rescue, relief, and recovery. But it takes time to assemble and move those resources and the geographic scope of the devastation is a big problem.
CNN Pentagon Mobilizing is reporting that the Bataan is now in operations off Louisiana and the Iwo Jima is en route from Norfolk. These amphibious assault ("gator") carriers will be good platforms to helicopter aid into the region. It will take some time and there will be coordination issues, but the feds aren't sitting on their hands. It's an unprecedented problem and it will put a strain on planning and resources, but given that it's less than 48 hours after Gulf landfall it is evident that the mobilization is unprecedented too. Let's hope that all these efforts all the way from Homeland Security and Northern Command down to local emergency responders, plus the private charities, are up to the challenge.
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twizted sizter
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Listening about another shooting....&#$%'s] with AK47s shot up apolice precinct...WTF!!! They better get control of this soon.
Edited by twizted sizter (Wed Aug 31 2005 03:32 AM)
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Disaster Master
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As of 6pm est time the gaurds inside the Dome are armed. There have been several shots fired in the dome to keep the peace. There are supplies on the way to the dome. My dog chills when i give him treats. Im sure the same will apply here. MRE's and Water on the way. Enricon is sending drying equipment to the dome as well. Water will be pumped out and steady air flow will help matters. God i cant imagine the smell.
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BTfromAZ
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If you go to the German Embassy web page, you will find a clickable "contact" button. I sent them the following billet doux:
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Sirs:
I find it difficult but necessary to tell you how disgusted I am at the remarks of your Environment Minister, Herr Trittin, concerning Hurricane and the insinuation that it was caused by policies of the present US government. What an insensitive and unfriendly thing to say at a moment like this! I think your government owes an immediate apology to all Americans and I further think that in the absence of such apology, you will find a great deal of animosity toward Germany rightfully building in the American public with ultimately quite negative consequences for Germany. Do the right thing. Apologize now and relieve this tactless bureaucrat Tritten from the job for which his capabilities are so obviously inadequate.
I invite the rest of you to do something similar.
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WhitherWeather
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what happens if the water doesn't go down? I mean, is that even possible? I would assume we are looking at months and not days before the water is gone.
As I understand it, there is nowhere for the water to "go down" to from the soup bowl that is--or was--the Big Easy.
Once it fills, I think months to get that inconceivable amount of water out is a reasonable guess. If ever.
We may need to start getting aclimated to the idea of Lake New Orleans.
Even if it does somehow get reclaimed eventually, trying to extrapolate the economic impact becomes an exercise in blindly feeling the edges of infinity. Just for instance, how many businesses based there can survive and restart after that long being shut down? How many businesses there rely on the tourism? I can't easily go on. There's nowhere to go.
WhitherWeather
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StormHound
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Loc: Orlando, FL
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As of 6pm est time the gaurds inside the Dome are armed. There have been several shots fired in the dome to keep the peace. There are supplies on the way to the dome. My dog chills when i give him treats. Im sure the same will apply here. MRE's and Water on the way. Enricon is sending drying equipment to the dome as well. Water will be pumped out and steady air flow will help matters. God i cant imagine the smell.
And to think this isn't worst case scenario. I guess worst case scenario would have at least taken care of the looters. This is truly a disaster like we've never seen.
DM, you have a lot of long months ahead of you.
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Storm Hound
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Disaster Master
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I was told to be ready for a 16 month deployment. Thats along time away from freinds and family. What a i talking about. I havent had freinds outside of work since i started this Bizz 12 years ago.
Time for a smoke break. back in 5
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Kimster
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Loc: Dunedin, FL
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"it would be logisticaly impossible to move 30,000 people by boat from the supedome"
I heard on the news this evening some mention of utilizing Cruise Ships. I don't know if they were discussing moving large amounts of people to a different area or using them for temporary housing.
i don't know if moving cruise ships in there is a good idea...they'd prolly just get looted
Edited by LI Phil (Wed Aug 31 2005 03:48 AM)
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Chesapeake Phil
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In terms of flooding, if N.O. does, indeed, flood until it is level with Lake P., then it IS the worst case scenario. That's as far as it can flood - it makes the city indistinguishable from the lake except for the buildings, elevated highways, power lines, etc., poking above the surface. The news media is doing an OK job of explaining this, but just from talking to friends and family, I still think a lot of people can't wrap their minds around it. This is not "normal" flooding. If the water is not pumped out (and I, too, don't know how this can happen if the water level in NO becomes even with that of Lake P - where do you pump it to??), this is the permanent expansion of a lake.
I guess what you mean is that the WORST case scenario would have been the "soup bowl" filling up much faster, which would have wiped out many of the survivors who have been rescued from roofs, attics, etc.
bad scenario, but this isn't worst case. worst case would have been surge topping the levees and levee failure during the height of the storm. deeper water/more damage/climbing onto roofs more dangerous. no, the big easy got a small favor by 15 miles or so. -HF
Edited by HanKFranK (Wed Aug 31 2005 05:04 AM)
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bobbutts
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Right now there is a prison riot with hostages.
ABC News is reporting that this rumor is untrue
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Anton Ross
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Loc: Downtown Beaufort Marina, SC
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CNN reporting that the military is sending quite a bit of help towards NO. Hospital ship from MD, Iwo Jima and 4 support ships, 4-6 minesweepers being sent in for SAR (recovery, at this point), USAF SAR copters, 200 National Guardsmen already at the SuperDome (I bet their sort of nervous), 500 Coasties are being activated from the area, and more.
Also sending in additional Navy SeaBees to assist Corps of Engineers. Carrier JFK may get sent as well.
Also reports are in that one of the fires blazing on the West side is an area heavily populated by chemical plants and refineries.
I guess my original fears about what hazards the flood waters and fires may cause are coming to fruition. I totally forgot about the human element where looting and riots are concerned, though.
This is a nervous time for NO on so many levels. Locally (Charleston, SC) we're working with a few charities to get canned goods and bottled water assembled and sent of to a staging point. It is a small effort though, compared to what needs to be done (I think).
On the WX side of things, it is interesting that Time magazine has a lede story about global warming. (CLIP: One especially sobering study from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found that hurricane wind speeds have increased about 50% in the past 50 years. And since warm oceans are such a critical ingredient in hurricane formation, anything that gets the water warming more could get the storms growing worse.)
Maybe Mother Nature is speaking her piece?
Such a tragedy.
/Anton
that MIT study is not reputable. if you want a realistic perspective, read any of bill gray's season forecasts. he knows hurricane climatology better than most anybody. -HF
Edited by HanKFranK (Wed Aug 31 2005 05:02 AM)
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Disaster Master
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i can hear it now via bull horn. in 10 ft of water outside. Now boarding Royal princess cruise to _ _ _ _ . Wow we are really stretching the imagination now. Once again Dome to Cruise boat.... How does this happen?
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LI Phil
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bill gray on msnbc right NOW
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2005 Forecast: 14/7/4
BUCKLE UP!
"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"
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bobbutts
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Loc: New Hampshire
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In terms of flooding, if N.O. does, indeed, flood until it is level with Lake P., then it IS the worst case scenario. That's as far as it can flood
Had the city flooded during a storm the level would have been significantly higher because you'd have to add the storm surge to the normal lake level.
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Kimster
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funny...but most items are bolted down on cruise ships. I guess they could take the pillows, sheets, dishes and silverware. It seems like a good idea to move 2 to 3 thousand people at a time. Question is, where do you drop them off? I believe Carnival Cruise was at the port of Orleans and has at least one or two boats "homeless" right now. Might as well put them to some good use...somehow.
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evergladesangler
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What's amazing is that the ACOE doesn't seem to have much of plan vis-a-vis the levees. The spokesman who was just on MSNBC said they had quit for tonight and the 3,000 lb. bags did not work at all. He even thought it was possible that the bowl would fill up to the point of equilibrium between the lake and city.
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Kimster
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Seriously, couldn't they shuttle them? The Cruise ship wouldn't have to pull rt. up to the Dome. Cruise lines often shuttle people to and from the islands.
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BTfromAZ
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Phil and the rest: Lake Pontchartrain is not a closed system. It is open to the Gulf and is subject to tidal action. Therefore, water pumped into it will flow out into the Gulf. IF the integrity of the levees can be restored and the pumps got working, they will be able to pump the water out. I believe I recall hearing they can pump the entire city at a rate of about an inch per day. That would mean, of course, that it could take several months to pump it dry, assisted of course by evaporation and perhaps minimal absorbtion into the ground. Attached is a map of the Lake P. outlet.
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