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News Talkback >> 2005 News Talkbacks

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Beaumont, TX
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Re: Max Mayfield's Comments from about an Hour ago... [Re: Colleen A.]
      #59412 - Wed Oct 19 2005 04:55 PM

I did not get to see the press conference. Do you think they'll show it again?

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dave foster
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Re: Here we go! [Re: funky]
      #59413 - Wed Oct 19 2005 04:57 PM

I have a question concerning something that has had me confused for quite a while now.
I watched Katrina intensify, I watched Rita intensify, and to all intents and purposes they
hit 175mph then stopped. The same has happened to Wilma, so my question is, why? Can't hurricanes go any faster than this? What's to stop them reaching 200mph+?

I have a theory but that's all it is - the surface friction becomes too high for any further increase in speed.

Any good answers anyone?

--------------------
Dave Foster
http://www.ascn92.dsl.pipex.com


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Rasvar
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Re: Here we go! [Re: dave foster]
      #59415 - Wed Oct 19 2005 04:59 PM

Quote:

I have a question concerning something that has had me confused for quite a while now.
I watched Katrina intensify, I watched Rita intensify, and to all intents and purposes they
hit 175mph then stopped. The same has happened to Wilma, so my question is, why? Can't hurricanes go any faster than this? What's to stop them reaching 200mph+?






In theory, they could; but there is a limit as to the amount of available energy based on the heat. If more heat was available, the storm couldd increase higher.

--------------------
Jim


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Colleen A.
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Re: Max Mayfield's Comments from about an Hour ago... [Re: Beaumont, TX]
      #59416 - Wed Oct 19 2005 04:59 PM

I don't know if they will show it again; although cable news is pretty good on recapping main points on any story.
Had I known it was coming, I would have recorded it and typed it verbatim while listening. Oh well.

--------------------
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Rabbit
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Re: Here we go! [Re: dave foster]
      #59417 - Wed Oct 19 2005 04:59 PM

Mitch in 1998 hit 180, Dog in 1950 hit 185, Camille in 1969 and Allen in 1980 hit 190, Gilbert in 1988 hit 195, and the 1935 Labor Day hurricane likely exceeded 200

However, these are the ONLY examples I can find in the Atlantic, my guess is that it has to do with the ERC, or maybe just a coincidence that all three began to enter unfavorable environments at 175.


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Beaumont, TX
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Re: Current Evacuation Plans [Re: FlaMommy]
      #59419 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:00 PM

Just make sure you have reservations somewhere or family to go to if you are in the cone of error. I am glad we left when Rita hit
and she was a Cat 3 and did EXTENSIVE damage here. I believe because we got most of our people out there were not too many
deaths. So, if they order a mandatory evacuation go.


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DoubleJ
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Re: Here we go! [Re: funky]
      #59421 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:02 PM

Quote:

wow, did Wilma's eye just make a loop? is that what you are talking about? yikes!

Quote:

looking at RSO on sat......WOW..... something new in my life time...

http://hadar.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/RSOgeflt.html

11am discussion

PRONOUNCED TROCHOIDAL OSCILLATIONS ARE BEING SUPERIMPOSED ON A MEAN
MOTION OF 300/6.








Howdy,

First off, thanks for the wonderful wealth of information on this forum and website. I have been lurking for quite a while. I would like to save the loop that is displayed on the above link, are there websites which contain archive loops; or where might I be able to obtain a gif/jpeg image? Its quite amazing that this storm has done what appears to be a loop! wow!

thank you.


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FlaMommy
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Re: Current Evacuation Plans [Re: Beaumont, TX]
      #59422 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:03 PM

well even if we get a voluntary evacuation*which i seriously doubt will happen* we are to evacuate for living in a mobile home....so i understand completely and hope that others feel the same way...my husbands uncle stayed in a travel trailer in gibsonton last year during Charley and he said he would never do it again....so im hoping that some people arent so stubborn

--------------------
"Haven't thought of a witty one lately"


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D3m3NT3DVoRT3X
Weather Watcher


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Re: Here we go! [Re: DoubleJ]
      #59424 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:04 PM

any mods around .. so we can get a new thread started ? =D

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Beaumont, TX
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Re: Max Mayfield's Comments from about an Hour ago... [Re: Colleen A.]
      #59425 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:04 PM

Max Mayfield is my favorite so I would have liked to have recorded the press conference. Maybe they'll show it on one of the
nighttime programs.
I really hope people will take the storm seriously. Both Katrina and Rita were especially destructive, Katrina with water and Rita with
winds.


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doug
Weather Analyst


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Re: slight adjustment north at 11 [Re: scottsvb]
      #59426 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:04 PM

Right now the amplitude of the trough seems to be about 40-60 degrees as seen on the WV which shows motion of the atmospphere of the Pacific over Mexico ahead of the trough.
Again it becomes a question of timing. IF one uses say 50 degrees from the NHC forecast point where the turn begins you will see something just south of Sarasota county...near where Accuweather projects and north of the current NHC, But if the strorm turns before that point or after will effect the landfall location accordingly as will the trough amplitude as mentioned above by some one else.
The first time I even encountered a notion that the storm may meander around Yucatan was when Bastardi noted it had 10% chance of doing that
That is actually the first non CONUS strike case made here or anywhere in over two days. And now some of you are noting the infamous GFDL doing that too. HMMMM!
Only if Wilma does not get to Cancun on time.

--------------------
doug

Edited by doug (Wed Oct 19 2005 05:05 PM)


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HCW
Storm Tracker


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Loc: Mobile,AL
Re: slight adjustment north at 11 [Re: doug]
      #59428 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:09 PM

Is she about to do an EWRC ? The dark browns have been replaced with reds over the last 2 hours

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Lake Toho - Kissimmee
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Re: slight adjustment north at 11 [Re: doug]
      #59431 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:12 PM

Doug,

You mean GFS not GFDL Correct ?

--------------------
Dream like you will live forever.. Live like there is no tommorow.. Darwin Rules !!


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evergladesangler
Weather Hobbyist


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Re: slight adjustment north at 11 [Re: Lake Toho - Kissimmee]
      #59432 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:13 PM

Here is the 12Z GFS which shows the Yucatan hit, weakening, and sweep off over the Keys and Everglades:

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/gfs/12/index_slp_m_loop.shtml


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Thunderbird12
Meteorologist


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Re: slight adjustment north at 11 [Re: Lake Toho - Kissimmee]
      #59434 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:15 PM

The 12Z GFDL is not in yet. I was speculating that it may show something similar to the GFS since the two models are closely related, but we have yet to find out. Occasionally, those two models will differ quite a bit.

Speaking of the GFDL, it may have made the greatest computer model hurricane forecast of all time a few days ago, when it forecast a cat 5 hurricane before Wilma even became a depression. Subsequent runs backed off on that, but the original runs weren't as crazy as they seemed, I guess.

Edited by Thunderbird12 (Wed Oct 19 2005 05:18 PM)


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Lake Toho - Kissimmee
Storm Tracker


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Re: slight adjustment north at 11 [Re: evergladesangler]
      #59435 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:15 PM

Yes, I have seen that.. Thanks.. I was more interested in someone commenting that the GFDL has also followed suit on the meandering. I haven't seen that and was interested if that was the case.

--------------------
Dream like you will live forever.. Live like there is no tommorow.. Darwin Rules !!


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Tracey
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Re: Wilma, Category 5 and Breaking Records [Re: dreamingtree]
      #59437 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:18 PM

Dreamingtree. On the east coast, we don't pretend to be scared, we are. We respect the storm. Unlike Tampa area during Charley, WE WERE HIT. I live in Volusia County and the eye of Hurricane Charley which hit SW Florida when directly over our city, still as a hurricane. You have no idea of the amount of devastation here, the number of homes lost or damaged beyond repair. Please do not be one of those people who believe the only impact is on the water. It is not! The damage is FAR reaching. You will learn a lot on this posts, if you listen.

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SMOKE
Weather Watcher


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Re: Wilma, Category 5 and Breaking Records [Re: mempho]
      #59438 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:18 PM

Quote:


I wonder why they don't fly more recon into storms like this...not just for the sake of posterity, but I would think the research data would be invaluable for protecting lives at some point in the future.




Rasvar is spot on in regard to the 53rd WRS. Resources permitting .... is key especially this season.
NOAA flys several missions also.
With only a fleet of 9 aircraft and operationally flying half while being 'displaced', until NHC or Congress can plus the unit up .... we fly what we can.
We have an agreement with NHC to provide service but based on current capabilities.

--------------------




Edited by SMOKE (Wed Oct 19 2005 05:28 PM)


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typhoon_tip
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Re: Here we go! [Re: funky]
      #59439 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:19 PM

Quote:

wow, did Wilma's eye just make a loop? is that what you are talking about? yikes!

Quote:

looking at RSO on sat......WOW..... something new in my life time...

http://hadar.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/RSOgeflt.html

11am discussion

PRONOUNCED TROCHOIDAL OSCILLATIONS ARE BEING SUPERIMPOSED ON A MEAN
MOTION OF 300/6.







The answer is a resounding yes!
BTW: ...as many on this site have been implying in their own inimitable way, Florida may not be the last area of concern once Wilma leaves the state (assuming she actually landfalls where we are expecting...and proceeds to tranverse in cooperative fashion). Firstly, I've seen at least two complete micro-loops as oscillatory motion since her needle point eye of terror materialized overnight last night, which means, she's enhancing the processing of the SST's... I still think though that she's just barely moving fast enough that it won't be too much a detriment to her intensity because the thermocline in her vicinity is quite deep!

...Fluctuations will inevitably occur and be most likely brought about by perturbational affects of her own doing; convection processes balanced against undetermined ERC's.... - nothing new there... but all of which there is virtually no predictive skill for timing; let alone subsequent affects on her intensity...

...We notice that her structure, while remaining essentially the same, is not associated with the extreme cold cloud tops that were almost off the scale overnight. This morning I took note of what appeared to be a small amount of dry air knifing into her wester circulation area. (Not sure if this has already been covered this morning so apologies for any redundances - actually, we're probably all repeating ourselves to some degree by now...) Anyway, more of this is actually probably having to do with the diurnal cycle, which is negative during the day (although usually more so toward the later afternoon, which is why I suggest some dry air may have been gulped into the circulation - perhaps masked by the cirrus shield...which by the way is fanstastically large!

...Anyway, for intensity enthusiasts, we are at or near a theoretical limitation for heat content, u/a mechanics and surrounding prospective inhibitors. NHC mentions or at least hints this overnight or this morning... . What that means is that it is more likely that fluctuations will be weaker rather than stronger. But, at 175mph and an all-time record breaking low pressure, a bit weaker is still utterly dimented for terror - yikes. This reminds me...it will be interesting to see how she behaves as she moves from an area of lower than normal environmental pressure, toward and area of more normal.. If she maintains her core pressure while she goes, the wind will have to compensate... The trick is, the water is slightly cooler along her predicted track between the Yucatan Penisula and Florida, so she probably will not have the convection to maintain such low pressure.. It will be interesting to see how this aspect evolves.

...There are a lot of dimensions to this.. .For one, the amount of geography altimately affected by Wilma in the U.S. could be staggering... If these left course continue to materialize and ultimately verfiy as she's climbing in latitude, we could have substantial marine impacts from Florida's East Coast all the way to Bar Harbor in Maine. If not impacted by wind, surf "might" be an issue... And, should Wilma slam into Buzzard's Bay in Massachusetts like the 06Z GFS and the NOGAPS are indicating, we are likely going to have a 1938-like scenario of funneling storm surge... The other thing about this: The accelerated movement and current path notion of these models is such that brings her along the length of the Gulf Stream after leaving Florida, then turning her N near about 37 latitude by about 73w (appr). This is disconcerting to say the least... Basically, she's moving quickly across Florida as a cat 3 (if they are lucky..), but so quickly that she may not have a lot of time to exhaust momentum over the relatively flat land area of the Florida Peninsula... Then, she's zipping up the East Coastal waters at some 35-45mph along the length of the Gulf Stream... May not be enough to "strengthen" but could just be a maintenance course.. Then, she does have to traverse the N wall of the Gulf stream and colder water that lurks for about 3 degrees of latitude S of Long Island, but at a very fast forward speed (which is climatologically both favored and necessary given the synoptics of 4 days from now) she will likely have limited time to weaken before crossing that inhibition.....

...Could make some history in New England should that verify; which is augmented by the fact that we would have uniquely enhanced meso-scale aspect associated with lift just west of inevitable coastal boundary, over an area that CAN NOT TAKE any more rain. Also, with saturated ground and an unusually late foliage season that I can personally vouch for in the area of Eastern New England, the timbre cost could be large....

...But, in the end, I think it important to take this one step at a time and the Floridians diserve all our attention for now.. Good luck!

I figure I ought to add to this before the qauntlet drops... this is all predicated on the assumption that the mroe threatening guidance is correct! it is note worthy that the 12Z guidance has backed off on intensity from the two models in question; and it has already been noted by another member that the ECM was not as threatening to latter interests in the 00Z run. Frankly, i find it a little dubious of the 12Z GFS to take it into the ne coast of the Yucatan.. we must remember, the models have a bit of a memory too... they'd logged a lot of Yuc interaction and then a smartly out to sea solution for days...then, one sampling and it looked a lot different...It may just be that we are seeing another oscillation in the models based on momentum from previous runs.

Edited by typhoon_tip (Wed Oct 19 2005 05:31 PM)


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MLB Pilot
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Re: Wilma, Category 5 and Breaking Records [Re: Rasvar]
      #59441 - Wed Oct 19 2005 05:20 PM

Quote:

Multiple reasons for not more flights. $$$$'s and distance are some of the main ones. Lose about 30 minutes outbound and 30 minutes on the return because of the hunters being displaced to Atlanta. I know there have been numerous equipment problems too this season.

Whole hunter fleet needs an influx of dollars from Congress; but that won't hapopen anytime soon.




Don't know if anyone has responded to this post yet, but I will give it a stab.

Read an article last week that discussed a lack of $$$$ which resulted in fewer missions into Katrina than what the NHC would have liked, especially immediately before landfall.

It is a horrible shame to lose lives because of this. I am walking three houses down to my US Rep. to tell him what I think. Might even see if I can help with his hurricane shutters.

BTW, I have a C-182 (Cessna) that we could use to punch into the storm. Any co-pilot volunteers?

We are ready and waiting in Indialantic, FL!


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