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MikeCAdministrator
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Loc: Orlando, FL
Katrina Domino Effect
      #53107 - Wed Aug 31 2005 09:26 PM

Today after work I couldn't leave for minutes because a line of traffic, headed toward a gas station nearly a block away, was blocking the roadway. I've got a full tank of gas before the storm, but the panicked lines for gas I saw today on the way home was unreal.

The Katrina Domino effect has started. More stories like this will come. The effect of Katrina is not just affecting the coastal regions, it's being felt everywhere, and I think this is just the start. This is the topic to discuss this effect, and what is happening as a result of the disaster.


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Chesapeake Phil
Verified CFHC User


Reged: Thu
Posts: 12
Loc: Betterton, MD
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: MikeC]
      #53112 - Wed Aug 31 2005 09:32 PM

Moved from the other forum:

Quote:

I was driving down to Sebring tonight and every single gas station I drove past had a line - it is nuts. I mean, if you need it - get it I dont' see the reason to "top off" right now. Good grief...see how a little rumor can cause such problems. I will be interested to see how quickly they run out of gas now that we sucked em dry!




Long lines in Sebring - no lines in Boca. It tells you that the runs on gas are localized. And why? Because when panic starts in an area it spreads across that area quickly. I hope the locals in my two-bit rural county don't lose their heads. Hadn't yet when I drove home tonight at least.


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Sheeper
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 62
Loc: Vero Beach, FL
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: MikeC]
      #53113 - Wed Aug 31 2005 09:33 PM

Ah, yes. Putting on my professional emergency management hat for a second this is part of what is called the "worried well". In most incidents, citizens will seek medical treatment even though they may not be injured by the incident. For example, in the World Trade Center incident on 9/11/01, the uninjured who sought medical treatment was approximately fifteen times the number of people who presented for medical treatment due to smoke inhalation. In the Tokyo subway attack, it was five times the number of victims experiencing chemical poisoning. For planning purposes, most experts calculate a ratio of ten-to-one.

Couple that with shortage panics, irresponsible/sensational media and you start to create a secondary incident.

--------------------
Emergency Management Consultant & Trainer


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Anton Ross
Weather Watcher


Reged: Fri
Posts: 42
Loc: Downtown Beaufort Marina, SC
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: MikeC]
      #53114 - Wed Aug 31 2005 09:40 PM

Here in Charleston we saw gas hiked anywhere between 20-50 cents in the space of an hour.

My father-out-law and his family live in Myrtle Beach, and they called this morning about their gas station across the street jumping the price from $2.70 to $3.25.

We were low on gas any way, and so we filled up at the gas station next to our store. About an hour later, when I went outside to stare at the sky (yes, I do that. It chills me out) I saw that the station had just bumped up prices from $2.69 (what we paid) to $2.99 for Regular Unleaded.

We drive a Subie Outback which gets about 28 MPG, which is pretty good. Our other vehicle...a 1969 VW Westy gets about 24 MPG...but now we're thinking about diesels. Father-out-law's Mercedes E300 (1995 model) has a diesel, and he is getting close to 44 MPG driving "carefully."

THAT's something to think about. Of course, my old 57 Nash Met used to get about 45 MPG as well. I miss my Mondo Met. I also had a 1973 Eldorado Convertible with a 45 gallon (extended) fuel tank. I can't EVEN imagine filling him (PHAT SAM) up these days.

/Anton - looking for used Vespas on eBay

--------------------
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
-Albert Einstein


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LI Phil
User


Reged: Fri
Posts: 2637
Loc: Long Island (40.7N 73.6W)
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: Sheeper]
      #53115 - Wed Aug 31 2005 09:44 PM

what was the date of that WTC thingy again?

--------------------
2005 Forecast: 14/7/4

BUCKLE UP!

"If your topic ain't tropic, your post will be toast"


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Katie
Weather Guru


Reged: Tue
Posts: 167
Loc: Winter Haven, FL
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: LI Phil]
      #53119 - Wed Aug 31 2005 09:52 PM

I guess I will behave and post here where we were told to....

you'd better...i wouldn't wanna have to come down to winterhaven and smack you

Gas prices here are $2.79 in Winter Haven but the lines were long at EVERY gas station between here and Sebring on Hwy 27.

Edited by LI Phil (Wed Aug 31 2005 10:07 PM)


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VandyBrad
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Reged: Sat
Posts: 80
Loc: Bryan, TX
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: Katie]
      #53124 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:00 PM

Prior to Katrina, Gainesville prices were in the neighborhood of $2.65. As of about 4pm this afternoon, they were up to $2.69. That's what my wife told me anyways. We are trying to minimize our consumption by only driving to and from work while making any important stops along these routes rather than making separate trips. Since I didn't see the stations myself, I can't comment on any lines.

--------------------
Brad Shumbera


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Girlnascar
Weather Watcher


Reged: Tue
Posts: 25
Loc: Orlando Florida USA
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: MikeC]
      #53126 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:03 PM

As far as I understand, we here in Florida are one of the largest GAS HOGGING STATES! Its time for people of this state to step up to the plate and be a little inconvenienced for a short time. I did see a circle K gas station near Lake Ivanhoe out of gas about 6:30 tonight! Gosh I felt screwed. As I have been in my office all day not aware of the so called gas crisis-working on Hurricane Katrina claims from the Miami area!!!There are good folks down there that have very large and big problems too. I am worried so many people are hogging gas that its dangerous! Some of the people I saw putting gas in containers didn't look like construction people!!
Sorry I don't mean to beat a dead horse about the gas, but we really need to get the word out there that if we can just conserve a little it will work out, our fellow Floridians need our help. If I can't find gas for my car to get to work - I can't get to work to pay claims. simple but the truth!

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....................
28.5N 81.2W


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weatherwatcher2
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 97
Loc: Parrish florida
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: Girlnascar]
      #53130 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:09 PM

I wonder if nascar will be racing? Do you think they use alot of fuel?

those cars get like 40 mpg

Edited by LI Phil (Thu Sep 01 2005 12:02 AM)


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Sheeper
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 62
Loc: Vero Beach, FL
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: Girlnascar]
      #53133 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:13 PM

i filled up today here in Vero Beach because i was worried there would be no gas left when the global shortage becomes public knowledge..

Nah...that's a lie. I filled up because i needed gas! I had less than 1/4 tank left. BUT i paid $2.74 (yes, for regular).

Prices will go higher because of supply/demand BUT i don't think we'll see systemic shortages. There may be (and will be) isolated shortages just due to shipping and demand. I worry about the price but not the availability.

--------------------
Emergency Management Consultant & Trainer


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VandyBrad
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Sat
Posts: 80
Loc: Bryan, TX
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: weatherwatcher2]
      #53134 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:14 PM

Quote:

I wonder if nascar will be racing? Do you think they use alot of fuel?




Good point. I'd like to think they would reconsider if things got really bad.

--------------------
Brad Shumbera


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Girlnascar
Weather Watcher


Reged: Tue
Posts: 25
Loc: Orlando Florida USA
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: weatherwatcher2]
      #53136 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:21 PM

Don't know since I don't represent Nascar, but if the pumps around the US are sucked dry by the weekend or next race, then they probably will have a problem just like everyone else, even though they don't use the same type of fuel that street cars use. No gas for the race cars, no gas for the fans to get to the race track, either!! Interesting question! I see where you are coming from!

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....................
28.5N 81.2W


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weatherwatcher2
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Wed
Posts: 97
Loc: Parrish florida
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: VandyBrad]
      #53138 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:22 PM

Does anyone know if all of your red cross donation goes towards the hurricane victims or just part of it? Someone at work said that alot of it goes to buying the red cross new chairs etc.. I would like to see the breakdown but its not on their site..

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weatherwatcher2
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Reged: Wed
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Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: Girlnascar]
      #53139 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:24 PM

just curious! We are big nascar fans. my husband also races locally at desoto speedway. hey that could go for any sport unless you walk there..

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VandyBrad
Weather Hobbyist


Reged: Sat
Posts: 80
Loc: Bryan, TX
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: weatherwatcher2]
      #53141 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:26 PM

I plan to do just that this weekend! Walk to the Gator game that is. (~2 miles)

--------------------
Brad Shumbera


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Londovir
Weather Guru


Reged: Fri
Posts: 112
Loc: Lakeland, FL
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: Anton Ross]
      #53142 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:26 PM

I'll echo that sentiment with Lakeland, FL I go to work at my school around 6am. On Tuesday morning going to work, gas was around $2.61. By the time I passed by on the way home from school around 3pm, it had moved up to $2.73. So, figure about 12 cents in 9 hours.

Today beat even that. My wife and I were going out to dinner. Passed by a gas station at 4pm. Price was $2.73. By the time we came by at 6pm after dinner, it was $2.79.

Whether it was coincidence or not, every gas station I've seen so far in Lakeland that spiked prices over the last 2 days has been a Citgo or a Shell. In fact, right now there are BPs directly across the street from Citgos (one by my house in fact) where the BP is holding fast to $2.63 while the Citgo is at $2.79. I can tell you with all honesty it will be years before I will ever get gas at Citgo or Shell again.

What I never understand (well, I know why, I just don't like it) is how the gasoline industry is one of the only industries that is always allowed to break the law without repurcussion. I worked in retail - I know how the industry works. I buy X number of goods at price Y. I want to make a profit, so I sell my goods at price 1.2Y (for a 20% markup profit). Now, I've already paid for those goods that are sitting on my shelf. If the cost to me to buy them suddenly goes up, it literally does not affect my instantaneous profit margins if I sell what I still have at my current price. If I want to buy more goods to sell, sure, I'll pay more for mine, but I can choose to raise the prices to cover that extra expense to me once I've bought and paid for that new batch. That's how it should work.

The gas industry, though, gets to hold us at gunpoint, as it were. Bob can have 10,000 gallons in the tank in the ground he paid $2.50 wholesale for, and he chanrges $2.69 at the pumps for profit. That's fine. Now, crude closes a little higher on the markets. Bob suddenly goes out to his sign and jacks the price up to $2.79. Did Bob have to buy more gas at a higher cost to him? No, not yet. It's the same 10,000 gallons in the ground.

How is that not considered illegal price gouging under many states' laws? In Florida when we had the hurricanes hit here, our Attorney General was going ape and hitting on stations like mad with fines/etc. So ... why aren't they doing it now? If that Citgo had a tanker pull up today and offload a full new tank of gas, I could justify his higher prices, since he's got to make his profit for that newer, more expensive fuel dump. I'm betting my butt, though, he didn't get a new tanker today. He's prospecting - trying to take advantage of "panic pumpers" to line his pockets. Sure, he's going to have to pay more for his next supply, but do you honestly think that he'd have absorbed that cost and not raised prices later? Yeah...I thought so.

This is what infuriates me the most right now. These people raising prices at gas right now should be held accountable by the law under the price gouging statutes. They should have to provide documentation of higher paid-for prices before they should legally be allowed to raise gas by a certain percentage increase.

I know, this is a myopic consumer view of the free market system, but it's one born out of frustration with the stranglehold the gas industry has on our lives. I'm watching countless images of devastation, loss, anguish, and I've yet to have my soul recover from the pain I feel watching it. And then I go out, to try and get some balance, and I come across gas stations profiting out of misery and panic, and it infuriates me to no end.

--------------------
Londovir


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Girlnascar
Weather Watcher


Reged: Tue
Posts: 25
Loc: Orlando Florida USA
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: MikeC]
      #53144 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:28 PM

The BP on the corner of Chickasaw & Curry Ford is out of gas right now.

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....................
28.5N 81.2W


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Anton Ross
Weather Watcher


Reged: Fri
Posts: 42
Loc: Downtown Beaufort Marina, SC
Gas Prices [Re: Girlnascar]
      #53151 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:36 PM

I'm reading a lot of posts about gas prices in FL jumping 9-19 cents. That does suck.

However, we saw it jump 20-50 cents here in Charleston (SC). And honestly...I see no reason for it other than price gouging.

Granted, I know that the wholesale price of gas DID rise...and I expected to see some price increases...but NOT the insanity we saw here in the Lowcountry today.

I am furious.

/Anton - where the heck did I park my Vespa

--------------------
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
-Albert Einstein


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Girlnascar
Weather Watcher


Reged: Tue
Posts: 25
Loc: Orlando Florida USA
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: Londovir]
      #53152 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:43 PM

Don't know if anyone can answer this, but why would we put all of our eggs in one basket so to speak-referring to 1/3 of the gas processing plants in New Orleans/Gulf . I know its one of the major shipping ports too has alot to do with, but are you telling me no one that is in charge of the gas processing in this entire Country never thought of anything like this and had no back up plan??? And why doesn't Florida have a contingency plan? Like California?

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....................
28.5N 81.2W


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damejune2
Storm Tracker


Reged: Sat
Posts: 237
Loc: Torrington, CT
Re: Katrina Domino Effect [Re: Girlnascar]
      #53155 - Wed Aug 31 2005 10:47 PM

I wonder....with the gas prices going up, the price per barrel of oil going up...who stands to gain from that? Obviously we as the consumer don't, but what about shareholders/stockholders of companies (exxon,mobile,amoco, etc...) don't they get a big chunk of change in their pocket? I am novice when it comes to gas and stocks, etc...so i am just wondering.....maybe some of you know. Like for example - who is in charge of raising the price per barrel? Why are they allowed to go so high as to make us have to pay over 3.00 a gallon?? Any ideas?? Hell, when they reported it on some of the news channels, they talked with a smirk...know what i mean? They seemed to have restrained jubilation about oil being over 70.00 a barrel and a gallon of gas maybe costing 3.00 or more. What in the hell??

--------------------
Gloria 1985 (Eye passed over my house in...get this...northwestern CT!)


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