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Unseasonably stout wave in Caribbean bringing enhanced showers and tstorms for several days, but lacks model support for development 5/26
Days since last H. Landfall - US: Any 274 (Idalia) , Major: 274 (Idalia) Florida - Any: 274 (Idalia) Major: 274 (Idalia)
 


News Talkback >> 2004 News Talkbacks

Clark
Meteorologist


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Posts: 1710
Re:A More W Component?
      Fri Aug 27 2004 05:01 AM

A few interesting notes...

1) Charley was the first cat. 4+ hurricane to make landfall in the U.S. since Hurricane Andrew in 1992.
2) Only 17 cat. 4+ hurricanes have made landfall in the U.S. since 1900.
3) The last four cat. 4+ storms to make landfall in the U.S.? Camille (1969), Hugo (1989), Andrew (1992), Charley (2004)
4) Only twice has the U.S. mainland *possibly* been impacted with two landfalling cat. 4+ storms since 1900 - 1906 and 1915. In 1906, it's debateable regarding hurricane #8 and the Fl. Keys; in 1915, it's debateable about the intensity at landfall of hurricane #2.

I post there partially because my major professor asked me if two cat. 4+ storms had ever made landfall in the U.S. in a year and partially because it's a scenario we could see play out over the remainder of this season, starting with Frances. It's a rarity folks, but it can happen.

Frances' eye looks to be becoming better defined on IR satellite imagery, although we're currently in satellite "twilight" for a couple of hours. We'll probably have a cat. 2 storm on our hands sometime tomorrow....well, today now. Outflow is excellent N to SW, becoming a little less defined on the S side. It's there on the east side, but is not nearly as well-defined as on the west side. It is moving into a region of very low shear - even less than what it was encountering, although it wasn't high to begin with - and despite mid-level dry air, precipitable water values are still high across the ocean, so further strengthening is likely.

It is interesting to note that a couple of models take the storm into the cat. 3-4 range within 5 days, most within 3 with a leveling in intensity beyond then. This includes some runs of the GFDL and the FSU Superensemble. The trends westward have stopped to some degree, and I think the current forecast track looks about right. If it slows as much as is forecast late in the period, Frances could be out there 10 or so more days. As is, somewhere around 8-10 sounds good.

The ultimate question will be how far to the west that the subtropical ridge builds over time, and how fast the storm moves in response to it. A faster storm will likely move further to the west with a stronger ridge. If the ridge builds to between Bermuda and the Outer Banks, a NC landfall or brush off the coast looks like a good bet. If it builds to the islands, then a NC/SC track looks like a better bet. If it builds inland a bit, then all bets are off.

The first scenario has played out the most times through history under these circumstances and tend to produce category 2 storms affecting the Wilmington to Cape Hatteras area; the last scenario has played out the least number of times but tends to result in strong storms affecting Florida, then getting into the Gulf and landfalling again between Lake Charles and Destin.

By all means though, it's one we're definitely going to have to follow.

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Subject Posted by Posted on
* Frances deepening, closer concerns HanKFranK Fri Aug 27 2004 05:01 AM
. * * Station 41008 - GRAYS REEF - 40 NM Southeast of Savannah, GA Cocoa Beach   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:32 PM
. * * Station TYBG1 - U.S. Navy Tower R8 Cocoa Beach   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:36 PM
. * * Re: Station TYBG1 - U.S. Navy Tower R8 Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:49 PM
. * * NHC Statement on TD7 Hurricane   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:52 PM
. * * Re: Station TYBG1 - U.S. Navy Tower R8 TROY   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:46 PM
. * * Re: Station TYBG1 - U.S. Navy Tower R8 Jamiewx   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:48 PM
. * * RECON (It's about time too...) LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:51 PM
. * * Re: Frances deepening, closer concerns LoisCane   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:15 AM
. * * Re: Frances deepening, closer concerns Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:07 AM
. * * Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS Frank P   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:43 AM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS BevMott   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:03 AM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS recmod   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:33 AM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS danielwAdministrator   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:28 PM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS rmbjoe1954   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:36 PM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS Ed in Va   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:52 PM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS rmbjoe1954   Fri Aug 27 2004 02:00 PM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 02:17 PM
. * * Cat II Frances LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 02:37 PM
. * * Cat III Frances? rmbjoe1954   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:05 PM
. * * Re: Cat III Frances? LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:16 PM
. * * Re: Cat III Frances? StormLover   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:42 PM
. * * Northward Wobble! LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:22 PM
. * * Re: Northward Wobble! joepub1   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:11 PM
. * * Re: Northward Wobble! Lake Toho - Kissimmee   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:17 PM
. * * 97L Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:23 PM
. * * Re: Northward Wobble! Brad   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:33 PM
. * * South Carolina... Steve   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:46 PM
. * * JB Midday Missive LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:51 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive SC Bill   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:38 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive Kal   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:32 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive SirCane   Fri Aug 27 2004 07:00 PM
. * * Frances goes MAJOR LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 07:17 PM
. * * Re: Frances goes MAJOR Kevin   Fri Aug 27 2004 07:29 PM
. * * Re:Question about what I see DMFischer   Fri Aug 27 2004 07:43 PM
. * * Re:Question about what I see Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 08:24 PM
. * * TD7 Advisory 1 LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 08:37 PM
. * * Re: TD7 Advisory 1 James88   Fri Aug 27 2004 08:47 PM
. * * Probabilities of a SC impact? Mooshie   Tue Aug 31 2004 10:09 PM
. * * Re: TD7 ....models? LoisCane   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:36 PM
. * * Re: TD7 ....models? LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:46 PM
. * * TD7 Forecast Track LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 08:50 PM
. * * Re: TD7 Forecast Track Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:00 PM
. * * Frances' future LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:31 PM
. * * Re: Frances' future Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:56 PM
. * * Hurricane Charley Chrisras   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:21 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Charley meto   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:31 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Charley meto   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:35 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Charley scott   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:46 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Frances Maitland, FL   Fri Aug 27 2004 11:00 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Charley GuppieGrouper   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:56 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Charley WeatherNLU   Fri Aug 27 2004 11:04 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Frances Maitland, FL   Fri Aug 27 2004 11:22 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Frances LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 11:28 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Frances Maitland, FL   Fri Aug 27 2004 11:31 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Frances meto   Sat Aug 28 2004 12:06 AM
. * * Re: Off topic-slightly danielwAdministrator   Sat Aug 28 2004 12:35 AM
. * * Re: Off topic-slightly GuppieGrouper   Sat Aug 28 2004 01:03 AM
. * * Re: Hermine danielwAdministrator   Sat Aug 28 2004 01:07 AM
. * * Re: Hermine GuppieGrouper   Sat Aug 28 2004 01:12 AM
. * * Re: Hermine HCW   Sat Aug 28 2004 01:52 AM
. * * NEW THREAD! LI Phil   Sat Aug 28 2004 01:57 AM
. * * Re: NEW THREAD! HCW   Sat Aug 28 2004 02:01 AM
. * * 2345 T#s LI Phil   Sat Aug 28 2004 12:39 AM
. * * Re: 2345 T#s meto   Sat Aug 28 2004 03:01 AM
. * * Re: TD7 Forecast Track James88   Fri Aug 27 2004 08:57 PM
. * * Monster Hurricane Chrisras   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:08 PM
. * * Re: Monster Hurricane rmbjoe1954   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:28 PM
. * * Re: Monster Hurricane LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:22 PM
. * * Re: Monster Hurricane DMFischer   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:29 PM
. * * Frances News Hype Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:46 PM
. * * Re: Frances News Hype LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:54 PM
. * * Re: Frances News Hype Hardcore   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:57 PM
. * * Re: Monster Hurricane StormLover   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:45 PM
. * * Re: Monster Hurricane 52255225   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:12 PM
. * * Re: Monster Hurricane Rich B   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:17 PM
. * * Re: Monster Hurricane Steve   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:11 PM
. * * Re:Question about what I see RevUp   Fri Aug 27 2004 08:36 PM
. * * Re:Question about what I see Maitland   Fri Aug 27 2004 07:54 PM
. * * Re: Frances goes MAJOR LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 07:38 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive SC Bill   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:46 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive Steve   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:19 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive rmbjoe1954   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:03 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive scottsvb55   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:52 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive scottsvb1   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:30 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive Ed in Va   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:32 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive ticka1   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:17 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive redbird   Sun Aug 29 2004 07:58 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:08 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive Lake Toho - Kissimmee   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:04 PM
. * * Re: JB Midday Missive Storm Cooper   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:03 PM
. * * Re: Northward Wobble! rmbjoe1954   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:29 PM
. * * Gaston? Steve   Fri Aug 27 2004 02:45 PM
. * * Re: Gaston? James88   Fri Aug 27 2004 02:49 PM
. * * Re: Gaston? LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:06 PM
. * * Re: Gaston? SC Bill   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:16 PM
. * * Re: Gaston? Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:54 PM
. * * Compact systems Clark   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:56 PM
. * * Re: Gaston? Keith234   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:03 PM
. * * Re: Gaston? LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:31 PM
. * * HOMEGROWN TROUBLE summercyclone   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:45 PM
. * * Re: HOMEGROWN TROUBLE Hardcore   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:58 PM
. * * Re: Gaston? Steve   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:29 PM
. * * Gaston and Hermine? James88   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:02 PM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS danielwAdministrator   Fri Aug 27 2004 11:31 AM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS LONNY307   Fri Aug 27 2004 12:26 PM
. * * Re: A98E danielwAdministrator   Fri Aug 27 2004 12:45 PM
. * * Re: A98E Clark   Fri Aug 27 2004 12:49 PM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS Matt033   Fri Aug 27 2004 11:22 AM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS meto   Fri Aug 27 2004 02:17 AM
. * * Re: Frances will cause great worry and stress for CONUS h2ocean   Fri Aug 27 2004 02:34 AM
. * * Re: Frances deepening, closer concerns WeatherNLU   Thu Aug 26 2004 10:28 PM
. * * Can I breath easy? Cycloneye   Thu Aug 26 2004 10:41 PM
. * * Re: Can I breath easy? LI Phil   Thu Aug 26 2004 11:09 PM
. * * Re: Can I breath easy? LoisCane   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:19 AM
. * * Re: Can I breath easy? LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:42 AM
. * * who is roberta? & i think ridge is building in as we speak LoisCane   Fri Aug 27 2004 02:39 AM
. * * Re:A More W Component? javlin   Fri Aug 27 2004 03:19 AM
. * * Re:A More W Component? Steve   Fri Aug 27 2004 04:29 AM
. * * Frances in Florida? FSU GRAD   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:07 AM
. * * Re: Frances in Florida? Steve   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:13 AM
. * * Re: Frances in Florida? EriktheFled   Fri Aug 27 2004 06:29 AM
. * * Re: Frances in Florida? James88   Fri Aug 27 2004 07:09 AM
. * * Re: Frances in Florida? Matt033   Fri Aug 27 2004 07:29 AM
. * * Re:5AM Discussion danielwAdministrator   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:16 AM
. * * Re:5AM Discussion LadyStorm   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:11 AM
. * * Re:5AM Discussion James88   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:18 AM
. * * Re: Off Current Topic danielwAdministrator   Fri Aug 27 2004 10:31 AM
. * * Very Quick...very EARLY post LI Phil   Fri Aug 27 2004 09:54 AM
. * * Re: Frances in Florida? Clark   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:43 AM
. * * Re: Frances in Florida? Steve   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:27 AM
. * * Re:A More W Component? Clark   Fri Aug 27 2004 05:01 AM
. * * when the moderators.... rickonboat   Thu Aug 26 2004 11:25 PM
. * * what, me worry? HanKFranK   Fri Aug 27 2004 12:01 AM
. * * Re: what, me worry? Clark   Fri Aug 27 2004 12:44 AM
. * * Re: what, me worry? GuppieGrouper   Fri Aug 27 2004 01:02 AM
. * * Re: Can I breath easy? ticka1   Thu Aug 26 2004 11:05 PM
. * * wonder what the insurance companies are thinking rickonboat   Thu Aug 26 2004 10:51 PM
. * * Re: Frances deepening, closer concerns Rabbit   Thu Aug 26 2004 10:00 PM
. * * Re: Frances deepening, closer concerns Keith234   Thu Aug 26 2004 10:04 PM

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