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#93L now a small better defined circulation with deep convection set to come ashore N of Tampico, MX. Recon investigating. Still 40% odds.
Days since last H. Landfall - US: Any 299 (Idalia) , Major: 299 (Idalia) Florida - Any: 299 (Idalia) Major: 299 (Idalia)
 


News Talkback >> 2005 News Talkbacks

typhoon_tip
Meteorologist


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Posts: 576
Re: a few obs
      Wed Oct 12 2005 05:08 PM

Yeah - it's tough man. There is definitely a growing disparity between what is known (or theoretically understood) about how certain index phases statistically connect to enhancing probability for certain weather phenomenon, vs. what is often observed. Take your '95-'96 winter: I was living in Massachusetts earlier that summer feeling cheated out of what was at that time a record breaking hurricane season; mainly, because New England was spared (just like this year - argh). Anyway, as you know, that winter was exceptional. At one point we had 40" of snow on the level and if you cut through the pack it was stratified into different layers of aggregates related to temperature at deposition times from successive events. Kind of like what avalanch researchers look for in predicting what layers are more prone to bifurcate and cause slides to take place... But, there we were at sea-level with our own micro-study.. It got so inundating with huge snow banks narrowing streets that it kind of changed the land scape unrecognizably in the intermediate sense of it.. But then, in latter January, huge thaws caused flooding...February, one last shot and we again getting belted by deep cold and heavy snows... That was it until 2000! In 1998 we were in the upper 70's almost everyday for a week in early December and much of that season was warm enough to play tennis outdoors.

Point being, at first glance one would be inclined to think that the huge hurricane season earlier that summer and autumn may somehow have been connected. The fact of the matter is they likely were not... Because, as you intimate, the phase of SOI and its connection to the ENSO state was in flux... Now, we do know that there is a time dependency for rapid transitioning ENSO modalities and the atmospheric response. That really confuses matters and makes your research look dubious if you don't acknowledge that as being true. If you are trying to write a thesis paper of some kind, pertaining to the connectability of index phase states to tropical phenomenon (or extra-tropical for that matter) you'd do your self a world a good by considering/planning for a time lags.

I didn't know that the SOI had changed or assumed any states as emphatically as you allude. Shows what I know.. I had just read NCEP autum climate eval and it didn't really lay mention to anything like that. They were pretty clear that neutral states of the ENSO were afoot and they believed also that it would likely persist into spring of 2006. That does not sit will with a SOI that wants to drive easterly trades does it? Kind of sounds like SOI (which we all know is highly correlated to ENSO) is indicating the neutral could be more transient than perhaps NCEP is currently aware or thinking.

I have been doing my own independent research in the matter regarding indices.. just for s*(&! and giggles I've been doing correlation cof on different states to see how well they move together... So far, I've nailed down some interesting findings.. One is that the AO (Arctic Oscillation - of which the NAO is a nested component) does not always concurrently operate when the NAO is in a given phase. Also, there is some weak correlation between the 2 year periodicity of the QBO and NAO, which is really weird because I'm not totally certain how the heck they could be shaking hands...it is a "weak" correlation at best however.. Anyway, if you are trying to connect SOI to hurricane frequencies, I have the about 50 years of SOI, QBO, NAO and AO all in spreadsheet (EXCEL)... I could email them to you, or provide you with NWS websites that provide the indexes going back to 1958. But just remember, the earlier phase indices are a little bit dubious (at least to me) because in their write ups the admit that the earlier measurements are based on study rather than actual measurements.. That is because many of these indices weren't readily known or explored before 1970-ish...

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic MikeCAdministrator Wed Oct 12 2005 05:08 PM
. * * The long, strange ride continues Clark   Mon Oct 10 2005 11:19 PM
. * * Something new? Clark   Tue Oct 11 2005 04:27 PM
. * * weirded out yet? HanKFranK   Tue Oct 11 2005 12:47 AM
. * * Re: weirded out yet? doug   Tue Oct 11 2005 01:26 PM
. * * Speaking Greek tpratch   Tue Oct 11 2005 06:56 AM
. * * Re: weirded out yet? Storm Hunter   Tue Oct 11 2005 01:48 AM
. * * Its official - Europes first on record Rich B   Tue Oct 11 2005 04:47 AM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record dave foster   Tue Oct 11 2005 12:13 PM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record dave foster   Tue Oct 11 2005 02:24 PM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record meranto   Wed Oct 12 2005 07:47 AM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record dave foster   Wed Oct 12 2005 02:10 PM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record Rick on boat in Mobile   Wed Oct 12 2005 08:09 AM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record Cindi   Wed Oct 12 2005 10:26 AM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record FlaMommy   Wed Oct 12 2005 12:39 PM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record typhoon_tip   Wed Oct 12 2005 02:30 PM
. * * a few obs HanKFranK   Wed Oct 12 2005 03:59 PM
. * * Re: a few obs typhoon_tip   Wed Oct 12 2005 05:08 PM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record GuppieGrouper   Wed Oct 12 2005 08:34 AM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record Margie   Wed Oct 12 2005 11:15 AM
. * * quieting down HanKFranK   Wed Oct 12 2005 10:32 AM
. * * Question for you-all Beach   Wed Oct 12 2005 02:12 PM
. * * Re: quieting down Myles   Wed Oct 12 2005 11:13 AM
. * * Re: quieting down Clark   Wed Oct 12 2005 03:57 PM
. * * Re: quieting down doug   Wed Oct 12 2005 12:07 PM
. * * And they say... Beach   Tue Oct 11 2005 07:27 AM
. * * Re: And they say... GuppieGrouper   Tue Oct 11 2005 09:28 AM
. * * Re: And they say... Adam   Tue Oct 11 2005 01:34 PM
. * * Re: And they say... GuppieGrouper   Tue Oct 11 2005 06:31 PM
. * * Re: And they say... HanKFranK   Tue Oct 11 2005 06:54 PM
. * * Re: And they say... Margie   Tue Oct 11 2005 09:39 PM
. * * Something Local Beach   Wed Oct 12 2005 07:37 AM
. * * Re: And they say... typhoon_tip   Tue Oct 11 2005 07:08 PM
. * * Re:MODELS HURRICANELONNY   Tue Oct 11 2005 06:47 PM
. * * winter website tashina   Tue Oct 11 2005 04:44 PM
. * * Re: And they say... ChessieStorm   Tue Oct 11 2005 11:43 AM
. * * Re: Its official - Europes first on record SMOKE   Tue Oct 11 2005 06:51 AM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Domino   Mon Oct 10 2005 08:07 AM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Ed DunhamAdministrator   Mon Oct 10 2005 10:46 AM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic weatherwatcher999   Mon Oct 10 2005 11:11 AM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic josef   Mon Oct 10 2005 11:36 AM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic bulletdodger   Sun Oct 09 2005 10:47 PM
. * * Season danielwAdministrator   Mon Oct 10 2005 04:53 AM
. * * Re: Season josef   Mon Oct 10 2005 05:08 AM
. * * Re: Season josef   Mon Oct 10 2005 05:20 AM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic josef   Sun Oct 09 2005 06:39 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Margie   Sun Oct 09 2005 07:51 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic weatherwatcher999   Sun Oct 09 2005 08:19 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic dave foster   Sun Oct 09 2005 06:50 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic josef   Sun Oct 09 2005 07:09 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Hugh   Sun Oct 09 2005 06:46 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic josef   Sun Oct 09 2005 06:54 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Hugh   Sun Oct 09 2005 07:06 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic josef   Sun Oct 09 2005 07:16 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic danielwAdministrator   Sun Oct 09 2005 08:24 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic dave foster   Sun Oct 09 2005 08:46 PM
. * * vince/22L/94L HanKFranK   Sun Oct 09 2005 10:22 PM
. * * Re: vince/22L/94L Steve H1   Mon Oct 10 2005 08:05 AM
. * * Re: vince/22L/94L dave foster   Mon Oct 10 2005 11:04 AM
. * * Re: vince/22L/94L OrlandoDan   Mon Oct 10 2005 06:33 PM
. * * Re: vince/22L/94L dave foster   Mon Oct 10 2005 06:43 PM
. * * Re: vince/22L/94L Steve H1   Mon Oct 10 2005 11:57 AM
. * * Re: vince/22L/94L emackl   Mon Oct 10 2005 05:05 PM
. * * Re: vince/22/94L ... 97L? Bloodstar   Mon Oct 10 2005 05:43 PM
. * * Re: vince/22/94L ... 97L? emackl   Mon Oct 10 2005 07:21 PM
. * * Re: vince/22/94L ... 97L? Hugh   Mon Oct 10 2005 10:53 PM
. * * Re: vince/22L/94L josef   Mon Oct 10 2005 05:16 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Margie   Sun Oct 09 2005 08:38 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Lysis   Sun Oct 09 2005 07:29 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Beaumont, TX   Sun Oct 09 2005 02:06 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Thunderbird12   Sun Oct 09 2005 05:48 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Lysis   Sun Oct 09 2005 02:21 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Hugh   Sun Oct 09 2005 11:12 AM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 09 2005 11:53 AM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Clark   Sun Oct 09 2005 01:37 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 09 2005 07:41 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 09 2005 07:50 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Margie   Sun Oct 09 2005 06:37 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Old Sailor   Sun Oct 09 2005 03:28 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic La Nimo   Sun Oct 09 2005 07:33 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Old Sailor   Sun Oct 09 2005 08:32 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Clark   Sun Oct 09 2005 03:57 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Rabbit   Sun Oct 09 2005 04:47 PM
. * * Hurricane Vince Where!!!!!!!!!!!!! NONAME   Sun Oct 09 2005 04:53 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince Where!!!!!!!!!!!!! dave foster   Sun Oct 09 2005 05:58 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince Where!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lysis   Sun Oct 09 2005 06:31 PM
. * * Re: Hurricane Vince Where!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rich B   Sun Oct 09 2005 05:24 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Storm Vince forms in the Far Eastern Atlantic Rabbit   Sun Oct 09 2005 01:51 PM
. * * oddball HanKFranK   Sun Oct 09 2005 11:53 AM

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