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News Talkback >> 2005 News Talkbacks

typhoon_tip
Meteorologist


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Posts: 576
Re: wilma on the way
      Sun Oct 16 2005 10:03 PM

Good points...can I just add something?
I'd be real weary of biting onto any left adjustment (not that you are of course). The reason why she's shifted in the models (in my opinion) is because Pre-Wilma is a weak entity. She's very susceptible to slight perturbations in successive runs, regarding the nearer term.. Sparing the physics to describe, which will just give us all unnecessary headaches...it's sometimes tough to rap our minds around the concept that t-cyclones behave like a log floating in a river.. The heavier the log, the longer it takes to change the direction of its drift/momentum..

Although path of least resistance is always taken by these systems, if more momentum is stored and providing the counter current isn't too overwhelming (causing shear and such), they do need time to respond. That is why a strong hurricane (a heavier log), will often slow down or even stall completely before resuming a new heading; i.e, while their momentum in a given vector is exhausted. Pre-Wilma is a twig with virtually no momentum - only needed a slight variance in the ridge strength anticipation and she's summarily shunting west, and if those influences were already verifying, she'd certainly verify that way. (we are still talking about the prognostication)

However, in the long run she'll be stronger and the righter course is preferred. I'm fairly confident once she's established herself in truer form, the models will re-establish a righter course....probably sooner once they latch onto a her as a stemwinder. And, a lot of that is timing because the westerlies will be in the beginning stages of change right about the time she gets a social security number from the weather gods.

The fact that the runs are unanimously shifted left may be a bit disconcerting for NNE track enthusiasts.

However, I looked at it...we're talking all of a paltry 3-5dm so it is natural that a weaker gyre would be prone to wobble in track guidance accordingly to such small ridge tweaks... My personal experience in watching these things, if she bombs overnight and has a really strong vertical profile, she'll thumb those ridge ripplets in the model runs thereafter, and their track guidance will easily shift back right; notwithstanding that the climatalogical course for all hurricanes tend to have a right bias given enough time; notwithstanding the synoptics slated to evolve. (not saying she'll bomb of course). The upshot here is that the changes in the westerlies that are expected to impact the area with an opportunity to move her N and NNE, will also effectively disallow too too much left motion...

I was surprised that she did not really take off today... She's got very impressive U/A mechanics working in her favor and copious upper oceanic heat content to feast on... The reason after deeper eval is that she's got most of her convection in her outer bands and these are not allowing convergence to maximize coriolis driven angular momentum to her core; as the convective ingest only spirals a small distance before ascending... That is actually important because some of the ingest by the cyclone is actually being pulled from all directions, which is a disruption to centricity.. (Don't bother; it's not readily observable by sat. I've deduced this from the 5pm discussion and what I've learned in college). But, I have noticed a small but intense sub- -70C cloud top region very near the perceived axis of rotation so we may actually be on the threshold of an implosion - so to speak...

Correction: the perceived axis of rotation appears to be NE of where the current impressive, albeit small area of very intense convection is occurring; should this persist inside the large circumvellate, I suspect if possible we could have a center refix...

Edited by typhoon_tip (Sun Oct 16 2005 10:19 PM)

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Subject Posted by Posted on
* Tropical Depression 24 Forms in Western Caribbean MikeCAdministrator Sun Oct 16 2005 10:03 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Depression 24 Forms in Western Caribbean hurricane expert   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:52 PM
. * * confusing Hurricane Heat Potential maps lunkerhunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:28 PM
. * * Re: confusing Hurricane Heat Potential maps typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:33 PM
. * * Re: confusing Hurricane Heat Potential maps lunkerhunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:50 PM
. * * Re: confusing Hurricane Heat Potential maps typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:22 PM
. * * Re: confusing Hurricane Heat Potential maps lunkerhunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:27 PM
. * * Re: confusing Hurricane Heat Potential maps typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:35 PM
. * * Re: confusing Hurricane Heat Potential maps typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:30 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Depression 24 Forms in Western Caribbean Beaumont, TX   Sun Oct 16 2005 08:25 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Depression 24 Forms in Western Caribbean dave foster   Sun Oct 16 2005 08:49 PM
. * * Re: Tropical Depression 24 Forms in Western Caribbean tornado00   Sun Oct 16 2005 08:38 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Random Chaos   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:19 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:03 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Ed DunhamAdministrator   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:16 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Ron Basso   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:12 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Margie   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:53 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica GuppieGrouper   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:40 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Thunderbird12   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:51 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica HanKFranK   Sat Oct 15 2005 11:02 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica bobbutts   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:07 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Spoken   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:18 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 12:06 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Goosus   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:25 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica scottsvb   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:17 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:28 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:25 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica scottsvb   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:32 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:38 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica scottsvb   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:48 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:08 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica scottsvb   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:31 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Ron Basso   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:12 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:19 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Thunderbird12   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:17 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:25 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:39 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:42 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Rabbit   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:56 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:22 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica CaneTrackerInSoFl   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:41 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:47 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:49 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:54 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:56 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 05:06 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica sara33   Sat Oct 15 2005 07:51 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 07:56 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 08:15 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica sara33   Sat Oct 15 2005 08:10 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:59 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Clark   Sat Oct 15 2005 05:26 PM
. * * thanks clark and others LoisCane   Sat Oct 15 2005 08:20 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 05:35 PM
. * * wilma on the way HanKFranK   Sat Oct 15 2005 06:35 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way GuppieGrouper   Sat Oct 15 2005 08:54 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Random Chaos   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:09 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:18 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Clark   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:28 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:37 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:40 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Clark   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:17 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:33 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way scottsvb   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:39 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way k___g   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:45 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher999   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:15 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way MissBecky   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:50 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way bobbutts   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:14 PM
. * * how far west she goes makes a big difference LoisCane   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:16 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Old Sailor   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:01 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way GuppieGrouper   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:20 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:48 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:10 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Margie   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:40 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way damejune2   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:49 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Hootowl   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:59 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way damejune2   Sun Oct 16 2005 03:07 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Lysis   Sun Oct 16 2005 03:14 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way damejune2   Sun Oct 16 2005 03:23 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way StormHound   Sun Oct 16 2005 04:26 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sun Oct 16 2005 04:39 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Tazmanian93   Sun Oct 16 2005 08:51 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:07 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:10 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Lee-Delray   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:16 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way CaneTrackerInSoFl   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:31 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:18 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Genesis   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:32 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:03 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way dave foster   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:48 PM
. * * Bear Watch danielwAdministrator   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:57 PM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Jamiewx   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:06 PM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Wxwatcher2   Mon Oct 17 2005 12:01 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard* The Force 2005   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:31 PM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Beaumont, TX   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:51 PM
. * * Re: Bear Watch *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard* ralphfl   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:48 PM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Lake Toho - Kissimmee   Mon Oct 17 2005 12:23 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:29 PM
. * * Re: Bear Watch abyrd   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:02 PM
. * * Re: Bear Watch ralphfl   Sun Oct 16 2005 11:15 PM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Lake Toho - Kissimmee   Mon Oct 17 2005 12:57 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Lake Toho - Kissimmee   Mon Oct 17 2005 01:06 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch ralphfl   Mon Oct 17 2005 01:39 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Lake Toho - Kissimmee   Mon Oct 17 2005 02:19 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch ralphfl   Mon Oct 17 2005 02:27 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch scottsvb   Mon Oct 17 2005 02:50 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Hugh   Mon Oct 17 2005 06:21 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch SMOKE   Mon Oct 17 2005 06:44 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Hugh   Mon Oct 17 2005 07:03 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch SMOKE   Mon Oct 17 2005 07:23 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch dave foster   Mon Oct 17 2005 07:40 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Storm Hunter   Mon Oct 17 2005 01:45 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch danielwAdministrator   Mon Oct 17 2005 02:12 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch scottsvb   Mon Oct 17 2005 02:09 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Lake Toho - Kissimmee   Mon Oct 17 2005 02:05 AM
. * * Re: Bear Watch Storm Hunter   Mon Oct 17 2005 01:22 AM
. * * Models and TD24 danielwAdministrator   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:46 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:39 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way sara33   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:47 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard* SirCane   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:54 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:55 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Lee-Delray   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:23 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way charlottefl   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:29 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way bobbutts   Sun Oct 16 2005 05:06 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way crpeavley   Sun Oct 16 2005 06:52 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Lee-Delray   Sun Oct 16 2005 07:16 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way GuppieGrouper   Sun Oct 16 2005 07:46 PM
. * * Models Ed DunhamAdministrator   Sun Oct 16 2005 08:58 PM
. * * Re: Models Kevin   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:10 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Lee-Delray   Sun Oct 16 2005 07:49 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Lee-Delray   Sun Oct 16 2005 07:33 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way MichaelA   Sun Oct 16 2005 07:39 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Lee-Delray   Sun Oct 16 2005 07:45 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sun Oct 16 2005 05:55 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 04:42 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Jamiewx   Sun Oct 16 2005 03:20 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher999   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:39 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way HanKFranK   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:47 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way sara33   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:09 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:08 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way LoisCane   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:14 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:14 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:50 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way damejune2   Sun Oct 16 2005 03:02 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard* The Force 2005   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:33 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Convergence   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:48 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way *Killed -- Sent to Graveyard* The Force 2005   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:52 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:17 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:31 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way swimaway19   Sun Oct 16 2005 08:47 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 08:53 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way scottsvb   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:01 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way scottsvb   Sun Oct 16 2005 09:30 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Thunderbird12   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:38 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:43 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way scottsvb   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:49 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:37 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way GuppieGrouper   Sun Oct 16 2005 02:44 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Sneakbridge   Sun Oct 16 2005 07:28 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:03 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way HanKFranK   Sun Oct 16 2005 01:20 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 10:58 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Random Chaos   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:03 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:23 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Margie   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:09 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way damejune2   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:32 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:20 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way CaneTrackerInSoFl   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:22 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:25 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way danielwAdministrator   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:31 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way sara33   Sat Oct 15 2005 11:38 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way debwire   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:06 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Margie   Sun Oct 16 2005 12:05 AM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:53 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way CaneTrackerInSoFl   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:50 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sat Oct 15 2005 11:14 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way CaneTrackerInSoFl   Sat Oct 15 2005 11:29 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way weatherwatcher2   Sat Oct 15 2005 11:34 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way GuppieGrouper   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:50 PM
. * * Looking back on models from earlier this week Rasvar   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:57 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way damejune2   Sat Oct 15 2005 07:54 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 08:48 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Old Sailor   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:03 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:11 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Beaumont, TX   Sat Oct 15 2005 08:13 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 08:23 PM
. * * Re: wilma on the way Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 06:43 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 04:53 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:55 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:24 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:18 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:17 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Steve H1   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:24 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:27 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:33 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:43 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:49 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:00 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:09 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 03:15 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica typhoon_tip   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:24 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Storm Hunter   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:59 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 02:11 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica scottsvb   Sat Oct 15 2005 01:34 PM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 11:18 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 10:56 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica dave foster   Sat Oct 15 2005 11:03 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 11:15 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica Hugh   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:26 AM
. * * Re: Watching Near Jamaica dave foster   Sat Oct 15 2005 09:32 AM

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