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#Beryl forms in the Central Atlantic and forecast to become a hurricane over the weekend, Hurricane and Tropical watches for some of the Windwards likely issued tomorrow.
Days since last H. Landfall - US: Any 303 (Idalia) , Major: 303 (Idalia) Florida - Any: 303 (Idalia) Major: 303 (Idalia)
9.3N 43.6W
Wind: 40MPH
Pres: 1006mb
Moving:
W at 18 mph
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News Talkback >> 2007 News Talkbacks

cieldumort
Moderator


Reged:
Posts: 2329
Loc: Austin, Tx
Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical?
      Wed May 09 2007 01:11 AM

I think Clark makes the "company" argument not to name 90L extremely well, and those of us wondering if NHC may get around to bumping 90L would be remiss not to consider his words.

On the other hand

The front to 90Ls east is really no longer married to 90L, at all, but rather just a part of the very large cyclonic circulation. (90L being, IMHO, a subtropical storm embedded and birthed from within a much larger extra-tropical feature. And the older warm seclusion which took place is now probably just a bit of a trof, at best.

Also, many people mistakenly assume or demand that to be "subtropical" there must be a warm core. This is simply not so. Nor must there be strongest winds close to the "eye". In fact, quite the opposite of each is most often the case, and simply more correct. Certainly 90L, as a subtropical cyclone, stands far slimmer odds of ever transitioning over to warm-core, tropical, than, say, an Epsilon. That is undeniable. But the core has probably been just either side of neutral throughout the day, and that is classic subtropical. Also, the _very_ symmetrical wind field (I would recommend to anyone to glance this time-sensitive Scatterometer, while it is still valid, to see this first-hand, has tended to have an equally symmetrical core radius of maximum sustained winds roughly 100+ miles from the center. Again, truly subtropical.

I have probably mentioned this here before, and I'm sure I'll mention it somewhere again, that it is at least this individuals observation that NHC is usually extremely reluctant to name legitimate subtropical storms as such unless they have a better than 50-50 chance of transitioning to fully tropical, and right now, and all day long, that has not been the case with our 90L.

On the other hand, following the golden rule above, if there should be a decent flareup closer to the center overnight and/or before or during recon tomorrow, and especially if recon does find even a decent smidgen of warm core, then the official naming of (Andrea) before landfall still seems to me to be entirely possible.

It will be interesting to see how long it can last in at least it's current state, now that the clock is ticking, and it is currently on a course with dry land, and perhaps more dry air entrainment, as well. While I am not writing 90L off for a recon flight entirely, if it doesn't flare up overnight, I suspect NHC might leave this one for post-season. We've all seen this before.

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? MikeCAdministrator Wed May 09 2007 01:11 AM
. * * Re: interesting obs on smoke and the storm NewWatcher   Wed May 09 2007 10:47 AM
. * * interesting obs on smoke and the storm LoisCane   Wed May 09 2007 10:38 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... ChessieStorm   Wed May 09 2007 10:27 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... vineyardsaker   Wed May 09 2007 10:23 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... AdrianInFlorida   Wed May 09 2007 10:19 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... vineyardsaker   Wed May 09 2007 10:18 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... ftlaudbob   Wed May 09 2007 10:17 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... MadDog   Wed May 09 2007 10:06 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... nl   Wed May 09 2007 10:02 AM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? HCW   Wed May 09 2007 09:59 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... vineyardsaker   Wed May 09 2007 09:55 AM
. * * ANDREA NewWatcher   Wed May 09 2007 09:53 AM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? cieldumort   Wed May 09 2007 09:50 AM
. * * Re: Subtropical Storm Andrea Hurricane29   Wed May 09 2007 09:17 AM
. * * Re: Subtropical Storm Andrea allan   Wed May 09 2007 09:14 AM
. * * Subtropical Storm Andrea cieldumort   Wed May 09 2007 09:07 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... cieldumort   Wed May 09 2007 08:45 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... dem05   Wed May 09 2007 08:30 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... Hugh   Wed May 09 2007 07:58 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... MikeCAdministrator   Wed May 09 2007 07:17 AM
. * * Re: It's trying, it really is.... cieldumort   Wed May 09 2007 02:58 AM
. * * It's trying, it really is.... Bloodstar   Wed May 09 2007 02:22 AM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? scottsvb   Wed May 09 2007 01:42 AM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? cieldumort   Wed May 09 2007 01:11 AM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? Clark   Wed May 09 2007 12:11 AM
. * * Re: subtropical storm andrea Bloodstar   Wed May 09 2007 12:10 AM
. * * Re: subtropical storm andrea BillD   Wed May 09 2007 12:04 AM
. * * Re: subtropical storm andrea dem05   Tue May 08 2007 11:47 PM
. * * Re: subtropical storm andrea Hugh   Tue May 08 2007 11:24 PM
. * * Re: subtropical storm andrea dem05   Tue May 08 2007 11:21 PM
. * * Re: subtropical storm andrea BillD   Tue May 08 2007 10:48 PM
. * * Re: subtropical storm andrea Doombot!   Tue May 08 2007 10:47 PM
. * * Re: subtropical storm andrea dem05   Tue May 08 2007 10:17 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! dem05   Tue May 08 2007 10:11 PM
. * * subtropical storm andrea HanKFranK   Tue May 08 2007 09:58 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! MikeCAdministrator   Tue May 08 2007 09:23 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! cieldumort   Tue May 08 2007 09:11 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! nc_wx_watcher   Tue May 08 2007 09:06 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! Hugh   Tue May 08 2007 06:45 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! nc_wx_watcher   Tue May 08 2007 06:43 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! Lamar-Plant City   Tue May 08 2007 06:19 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! vineyardsaker   Tue May 08 2007 06:11 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! vineyardsaker   Tue May 08 2007 06:05 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! Lamar-Plant City   Tue May 08 2007 06:03 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! Rich B   Tue May 08 2007 05:32 PM
. * * Re: could there be a storm surge from this system?! Ricreig   Tue May 08 2007 05:17 PM
. * * could there be a storm surge from this system?! vineyardsaker   Tue May 08 2007 05:09 PM
. * * Re: so i guess we sit and wait Ricreig   Tue May 08 2007 04:57 PM
. * * Re: so i guess we sit and wait Lamar-Plant City   Tue May 08 2007 04:43 PM
. * * Re: so i guess we sit and wait madmumbler   Tue May 08 2007 04:41 PM
. * * Re: so i guess we sit and wait cieldumort   Tue May 08 2007 04:33 PM
. * * so i guess we sit and wait LoisCane   Tue May 08 2007 04:26 PM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? hurricaneguy   Tue May 08 2007 04:08 PM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? hurricaneguy   Tue May 08 2007 04:02 PM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? weather_wise911   Tue May 08 2007 04:01 PM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? Hurricane29   Tue May 08 2007 03:48 PM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? HCW   Tue May 08 2007 03:19 PM
. * * Re: Is the Offshore Storm Subtropical? MikeCAdministrator   Tue May 08 2007 02:54 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L rookie   Tue May 08 2007 02:44 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Ricreig   Tue May 08 2007 02:41 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L madmumbler   Tue May 08 2007 02:38 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L rookie   Tue May 08 2007 02:36 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L madmumbler   Tue May 08 2007 02:36 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Ed in Va   Tue May 08 2007 02:31 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Hurricane29   Tue May 08 2007 02:13 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L MikeCAdministrator   Tue May 08 2007 02:02 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Storm Hunter   Tue May 08 2007 01:10 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L rmbjoe1954   Tue May 08 2007 12:56 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Rich B   Tue May 08 2007 12:45 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Bloodstar   Tue May 08 2007 12:45 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Storm Hunter   Tue May 08 2007 11:39 AM
. * * system has every name but subtropical, needs a name LoisCane   Tue May 08 2007 11:38 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L madmumbler   Tue May 08 2007 11:26 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L madmumbler   Tue May 08 2007 11:24 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L allan   Tue May 08 2007 10:26 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L Hootowl   Tue May 08 2007 09:38 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L rookie   Tue May 08 2007 09:30 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L allan   Tue May 08 2007 09:14 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L Hugh   Tue May 08 2007 08:05 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L HanKFranK   Tue May 08 2007 12:12 AM
. * * Re: gale 90L Lamar-Plant City   Mon May 07 2007 11:34 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L PutnamGator   Mon May 07 2007 10:57 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Storm Hunter   Mon May 07 2007 10:52 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L HCW   Mon May 07 2007 10:45 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L ChessieStorm   Mon May 07 2007 10:31 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida dem05   Mon May 07 2007 10:23 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida obxadventurers   Mon May 07 2007 09:37 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L danielwAdministrator   Mon May 07 2007 09:34 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Storm Hunter   Mon May 07 2007 09:32 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L dem05   Mon May 07 2007 09:26 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L Hugh   Mon May 07 2007 08:21 PM
. * * Re: gale 90L ChessieStorm   Mon May 07 2007 06:38 PM
. * * gale 90L HanKFranK   Mon May 07 2007 06:03 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida allan   Mon May 07 2007 05:27 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida vineyardsaker   Mon May 07 2007 05:18 PM
. * * two loops LoisCane   Mon May 07 2007 03:21 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida Hootowl   Mon May 07 2007 02:32 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida Lamar-Plant City   Mon May 07 2007 02:30 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida Storm Hunter   Mon May 07 2007 02:23 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida cyclone_head   Mon May 07 2007 02:12 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida Storm Hunter   Mon May 07 2007 01:56 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida cyclone_head   Mon May 07 2007 01:53 PM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida cyclone_head   Mon May 07 2007 01:38 PM
. * * Re: Is there a chance it could become a subtropical? Lamar-Plant City   Mon May 07 2007 12:38 PM
. * * Re: Is there a chance it could become a subtropical? vineyardsaker   Mon May 07 2007 12:29 PM
. * * Re: Is there a chance it could become a subtropical? StormHound   Mon May 07 2007 12:07 PM
. * * Is there a chance it could become a subtropical? LoisCane   Mon May 07 2007 11:32 AM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida Lamar-Plant City   Mon May 07 2007 11:01 AM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida AdrianInFlorida   Mon May 07 2007 10:22 AM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida vineyardsaker   Mon May 07 2007 09:34 AM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida NewWatcher   Mon May 07 2007 09:03 AM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida HCW   Mon May 07 2007 08:30 AM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida AdrianInFlorida   Mon May 07 2007 08:23 AM
. * * Re: Nor'Easter Storm near North Carolina Headed Towards Florida Rich B   Mon May 07 2007 07:59 AM

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